TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: That's alright. You made it.
CLIENT: I was trying to parallel park on the street over by the Starbucks and I'm always very conscientious about bicyclists in this area because I used to bike to work. So, I always check. Before I make turns. Before I pull in to parking spots. Before I open my door. I always check. So, I check around before I start pulling in to this spot and there's a woman who looks like she is walking her bike to a bike rack that is right next to the parking spot.
THERAPIST: Like on the sidewalk?
CLIENT: On the sidewalk.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So, I started pulling in to the spot and, you know, I'm checking my corners and looking for traffic.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: She actually was unlocking her bike and was pulling her bike out through the parking spot on to the street and started screaming at me and hitting my car and cursing at me loud enough that I could hear her though my windows were rolled up.
THERAPIST: Really? [00:01:00]
CLIENT: You know, asking me what the fuck was wrong with me and didn't I fucking see her?
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: It was really, really...
THERAPIST: How do you think it's a good idea to walk behind somebody who's parallel parking?
CLIENT: Yeah. You know, screaming that I could have killed her and it was very stressful and upsetting.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And, so, I finished, she left. I finished parking and got out of my car and like two bystanders started shouting at me saying that like people like me are the reason why bicyclists die and, like, all cars should be banned and, like, just off in to crazy town and...
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: It's like, it's not like she was riding down the street in the bike lane or anything. Like, she... And, then it took like four tries to get the code for the door downstairs to work and it was really frustrating. (silence until 00:03:20)
THERAPIST: This is probably one of your more worked up moments in here.
CLIENT: Yeah. Maybe.
THERAPIST: I, I get the impression you're a little worried about that.
CLIENT: No, I'm just waiting for the adrenalin to wear off. (silence until 00:04:25)
THERAPIST: I also imagine you're feeling quite a number of things. Though I'm not entirely sure. I mean, clearly you were really mad at this woman.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Like, very sort of critical of her. I'm not sure if you're also feeling anxious, like, maybe you're wrong or.
CLIENT: Oh, there's most definitely some of that. Like, you know, even if she wasn't in the bike lane, you know, it's still not cool to hit someone on a bike. Like, even if it's their fault. Like, you know, I'm the one with the two tons of moving metal. So, like what could I have done to have, you know, seen her? [00:05:30]
THERAPIST: And, like, I imagine you're also afraid of beings, like, having things angry and having such a strong adrenaline rush that it could have led somewhere bad.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Like it could turn in to a bad argument with her.
CLIENT: Right. Or with the bystanders.
THERAPIST: Yes. Where you let them have it, or?
CLIENT: Yeah. Like, well, I really wanted to defend myself and say that it wasn't my fault and the only reason I didn't was because I was already running late and didn't have time for it.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: So, anyway.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: That happened.
THERAPIST: Yeah. It sure did. [00:07:00]
CLIENT: Yesterday was a brunch for the 20 and 30 something spiritual formation group at my church. We were talking about sex, relationships and Christianity. It was a really infuriating discussion, because there were a lot of people who were insisting that, you know, premarital sex makes you, you know, an unrepentant sinner and you're going straight to hell if you have sex before marriage. You know, people who have kids outside of marriage are horrible and evil and should have their kids taken away from them. It's just like all kinds of like really retrograde.
And, so, at one point, one of the, the gay men in the group wanted to talk about gaymance and the church and gay marriage and this woman, who identified herself as a straight woman, started talking about how lesbians are inherently more monogamous than gay men and that, you know, same sex marriage should be okay for women, but not for men, because, you know, men are just tom cats and I was like excuse me. Like, I, I have seen queer women who, you know, have multiple partners or who cheat or who just, like, engage in the hook up culture. Like, it is ridiculous to engage in gender essentials in here and she was like well, what do you know about queer woman? I was like well, I am one and I have dated them and participated.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:08:25]
CLIENT: And she was like well, you know, I know all about lesbians because I have a lesbian roommate at college and then she just like just went on about her lesbian roommate and how she was so monogamous and that that makes it true for all lesbians. I was like a) college is a really, really narrow slice of the population and is not representative for women everywhere and b) like, these stereotypes about gender are damaging and harmful to people and, like, they're not okay. And, so, then she went on a rant at me about how her college was so diverse and it's more diverse than anywhere else in the area and, like, it, it was astonishing in its horribleness. And, so, by the time I left that brunch, I was just furious. Like, shaking with rage at like the complete disrespect that was being thrown around by everyone, but especially by this woman who is going to be at an event at my house next Friday. Over my objections I might add.
THERAPIST: Oh, wow. [00:09:30]
CLIENT: My priest invited her to be part of the anti-racism group without consulting with any of the leaders of the anti-racism group. It's my opinion that, you know, white people who are new to the church and whose opinions we don't know very well about this stuff and who we don't know are at least a one on level should not be part of the team. Like, they might be great people and they might want to learn.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: They should not be part of the team.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Until we know them.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And, like this woman is new. She has been at the church for less than a year.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:10:00]
CLIENT: I, and the other leaders of the anti-racism team, don't know the first thing about what her background or understanding is and certainly the way she acted on queer issues.
THERAPIST: I can't imagine why you'd be concerned after that. (laughter)
CLIENT: She actually had the nerve to say to me, well, what do you know about queer women after I had already identified myself as bi-sexual. That was... So, I got home and I was ranting to Dave about this and said, you know, she was glaring at me for the rest of the lunch. Dave was like well, of course she was glaring at you. You went out of your way to humiliate her. I was like, no I didn't. I disagreed with her because she was wrong and then Dave got really mad at me and told me that I was the one who was over reacting and I was the one who was too aggressive and too mean. Like, I also, I really, really hate the fact that we're not out about being poly. I hate being closeted.
THERAPIST: At church?
CLIENT: Yeah. At church. We're out everywhere else. Not church and not for family and not to co-workers. Well, that doesn't leave a whole lot, does it? But, at least out friends.
THERAPIST: With at least friends, yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And therapists.
CLIENT: Sure. And, I told Dave that, you know, like, separate from this conversation he told me I was being too aggressive but in a different conversation we had separated by a couple hours of time. I said, you know, I really hate being closeted. I would be out if it were just up to me and, you know, you never told me why you wanted us to not talk about being poly at church. Like, can you tell me why? He got really mad and started yelling and cursing at me and I don't understand why he got so mad. I think it's totally fair to ask why, especially since I am respecting his desire to stay closeted. Yeah. [00:12:00]
It makes me worry that he's not actually okay with being poly. And, every time I try to ask him that question, he accuses me of not trusting him, of calling him a liar, of not taking him at his word. He gets very offended and just refuses to answer the question, which makes me worry even more. It's really upsetting because I love him, but I don't think I could go back to being monogamous. I was deeply unhappy being monogamous.
THERAPIST: How long were you guys monogamous?
CLIENT: About four and a half years.
THERAPIST: Sorry. How long have you been together?
CLIENT: Nine years. [00:13:00]
THERAPIST: Okay. And you've been much happier being poly?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Well, something, can we kind of get back to the situations in which I think you're feeling really unfairly judged.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And, in such a way that you kind of have a void.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Or, or where you're being ignored, you know, when you're trying to get away from things and it, it's like enraging and, I guess, kind of maddening too, because it has this quality of like it doesn't make sense to you why people are being so ridiculous. [00:14:50]
CLIENT: Yeah. (Silence until 00:17:00)
THERAPIST: I have the impression that you're also wanting kind of more back up from me allowing me to say yeah, I'm fucking crazy. How could they...
CLIENT: No. No.
THERAPIST: Oh. Okay.
CLIENT: I got that validation yesterday. I had some friends over for, you know, coffee and beer after dinner.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Ranted. I received validation that, you know, that they were all wrong, very, very wrong.
THERAPIST: Did that help?
CLIENT: Yes, it did.
THERAPIST: Great.
CLIENT: It made me feel that much better. But, yeah, I don't know what to do about these anxieties I have that Dave secretly wishes we were monogamous again and it's and I mean, on one hand, if he has relationship desires that he's not verbalizing, that's his problem, not mine. [00:18:00]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: I mean, on the other hand, that doesn't exactly make me any less anxious.
THERAPIST: Sure. I'm just laughing because it's like I get what you mean when you say if he's not voicing them it's his problem. At the same time I'm like, yeah, it's a marriage, so, of course you're frustrated.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.
THERAPIST: What are you worried about? I mean I understand the situation you're worried about that he's actually not happy with it and not saying so.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But, I mean are you worried that could come between you or could cause a lot of bad blood? [00:19:00]
CLIENT: I worry that if he's not talking about his feelings that resentments will just build up and then that will, you know, seep in to everything else about our relationship. Another potential outcome that I worry about is that, you know, eventually he will come to a point where he just can't take it and he'll issue an ultimatum of, you know, break up with my other partners or leave him, because he can't handle it anymore. So, those are the two things I'm most worried about happening.
THERAPIST: Sure. [00:20:00]
CLIENT: And, I feel really guilty for saying this, or, you know, even thinking it, but, you know, probably about 80 percent of why I was not happy being monogamous is because sex with him is kind of boring and perfunctory. You know, I've, I've had relationships where sex was, you know, a two or three hour long affair. It was, you know, playful and we took our time and enjoyed each other. With Dave, it's just like, you know, a high speed train rushing towards orgasm. Now we're done. Okay, go get my laptop or book or something now and it's just really frustrating. And, I've tried to communicate to him that I would like us to take more time. You know. Schedule date nights to spend more time. To have a, you know, no electronic devices in the bedroom, you know, one night a week or and just nothing has gotten through to him. [00:21:00]
THERAPIST: I don't know. It sounds like though it is helped by being with other people, you're still pretty dissatisfied with your sex life with him.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And...
CLIENT: And, I mean I don't want to overstate the case. I mean it's not like sex with him is painful. You know, he makes sure I orgasm before he, you know, rolls over and dives in to his laptop, but it just, it feels very much like the point of sex is to reach orgasm and that's it and not to, you know, be playful or have fun. It feels very goal oriented, which is not how I best enjoy sex. [00:22:00]
THERAPIST: And, I don't get the impression that he can really talk about that with you.
CLIENT: No, he can't. (silence until 00:23:30)
THERAPIST: I'm kind of confused why you're not saying more because it seems like I frequently thought a lot about and I, I don't have question how you feel. Maybe a little guilty about it, but aren't that uncomfortable talking about it.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Or, maybe I'm misperceiving that.
CLIENT: Well, I mean, I'm not uncomfortable talking about it. Not that I am aware of.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: There's really not a whole lot more to say. Like, I feel like I've stated the case. [00:24:00]
THERAPIST: Is there more that comes to mind or that's really about it?
CLIENT: I mean, you know, part of me wants to, you know, lay out eventual foot notes or caveats saying, you know, I still love him very much and I'm still very much attracted to him, you know.
THERAPIST: Well, if you didn't feel either of those ways then you'd.
CLIENT: Sure.
THERAPIST: I don't mean to be like that.
CLIENT: Right. Right. No. Like, yeah, this would not be nearly as, as angst producing.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: If the other parts of the relationship, like the emotional and mental and friendships aspects were not going well, but, yeah, it's... And, also, another part of the, the problem is that there has always been a mismatch in our libidos, mine and Dave's.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:25:00]
CLIENT: Like, I, I've always wanted sex more often than he has.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And, it has been particularly frustrating the last two years trying to conceive, when, you know. Here's my two day window of fertility for this month and, you know, I want to have sex and he's not in the mood and can't for love or money get him to. It's like well, you know, if we don't have sex when I'm fertile; we're not going to have kids. Yeah. It's super, super frustrating.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And, he refuses to make an appointment with a fertility specialist which, you know, I finally bit the bullet and did that for myself back in January and, you know, submitted to a whole bunch of tests and blood work and uncomfortable procedures only to discover there's nothing wrong with my plumbing or my profile or anything like that.
THERAPIST: Well, I'm glad to hear that. I know there are other things you're frustrated about.
CLIENT: Sure.
THERAPIST: That sounds like good news.
CLIENT: It, it is.
THERAPIST: That's good.
CLIENT: It's definitely reassuring.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But, it, it narrows down the options for things that are wrong to something wrong with Dave or some incompatibility, like, between us.
THERAPIST: Oh, I see, yeah.
CLIENT: Genetic profiles. Apparently there's far more to incompatibility than just RH factor and blood type. Like, there's a great deal more that can be tested for.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: You know, the next step after checking the woman's hormone profile, etc., etc.
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: Is, you know, the sperm count and sperm utility and he won't just make a fucking appointment and and then I'm sure this must be anxiety producing for him and there must be all kinds of baggage around, you know, with men and virility and social pressure and blah that is probably going on inside his head. But, he won't talk to me about it and he won't see his shrink and he won't just make an appointment with a fertility specialist and, so, like, there is not a whole lot I can do to make him do any of those things. [00:27:10]
THERAPIST: Nope. Like blocked all over the place.
CLIENT: Yeah. He's not good at talking about his feelings. He really doesn't talk about it.
THERAPIST: I guess you don't talk much about that here about kids and why I don't have kids, but I have an impression only you talk about it, like, not surprisingly. It's a huge thing.
CLIENT: Yes, it is.
THERAPIST: I mean it's not surprising that it would be, but.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: You don't talk about it much. You don't have to. I'm not saying you should. [00:28:05]
CLIENT: Right. I mean, there's not, there's not a whole lot I can do about the situation. Like, I went and made an appointment with my doctor and got checked out and there's nothing wrong with me. Like, with both of my miscarriages the OB couldn't come up with any reasons why other than, you know, bad luck or random chance. These things happen.
THERAPIST: When were those?
CLIENT: Two years ago and a year and a half ago.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: You know, add six months to both of those.
THERAPIST: Two years ago. How horrible. We talked about these, I know.
CLIENT: The first one was just in to the second trimester and the second one was at about eight weeks.
THERAPIST: The first one you must of, like, thought you were in the clear. [00:29:00]
CLIENT: And, you know, the standard of care is, you know, not to do any kind of, you know, serious genetic analysis or, you know, any kind of invasive diagnostic procedures until you've had three miscarriages. Up to that is still within the range of normal, whatever normal means. [00:30:00]
THERAPIST: Sure. In this case I guess it means incredibly painful and frustrating.
CLIENT: Yeah. I mean it was painful and frustrating, you know, three years ago when I was 27 or, you know, five years ago when I was 25 and trying to get pregnant and it was not working. But, now, I'm 30 and I'm starting to feel the pressure of, you know, starting to get towards the age where it becomes, you know, highly risky to be pregnant or have children. Like both for me and for the child and it's... I mean I realize there are women who have kids, you know, well in to their 40's, but.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: It all seems, like, incredibly more complicated and requiring more medical intervention and, yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. That's not what you want. [00:31:20]
CLIENT: Also, a bunch of my friends are now, you know, having baby number two and there is part of me that, you know, feels, I don't know, like I'm lacking. Like, I'm not keeping up. With my first pregnancy, I got pregnant at the same time my friends got pregnant and we had these plans that, you know, our kids would grow up together and now their kids are like 3 ½ or 4 years old and they are having their second babies.
I didn't really grow up with a lot of friends and my parents didn't have other parents that they were friends with and I really like the idea of having a community of parents who I know I'm friends with where we could, you know, take care of each other's children. Have our children have play mates and have those really rich multi-generational relationships that I didn't have growing up. And, that a lot of people I know got those kinds of ritual generational relationships from cousins and aunts and uncles, but, my God, my sisters are train wrecks and I don't want them in my children's lives.
THERAPIST: No?
CLIENT: No. And, you know, Dave. Dave only has one brother and he has Down Syndrome, so he won't be having kids.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So, you know, cousins won't really be a thing for our kids. We'll have to rely on, on found family.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And that's a fine thing. Like, I'm a big believer in that, you know, you make the family. [00:33:00]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: With the people that are important to you. But, my peers are having their kids and I'm not.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: That's really upsetting.
THERAPIST: Absolutely.
CLIENT: You know, it's not like I can tell my friends oh, wait another few years to have your babies.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: And in fairness, I dragged my feet for, you know, a year before I scheduled a fertility testing appointment because I was afraid of what might, what the results might be. So, I kind of..
THERAPIST: You get to be upset about this even if dragged your feet for 10 years.
CLIENT: Well, a little hypocritical to be upset at Dave for dragging his feet when I dragged my feet too.
THERAPIST: I mean, I understand the parallels about taking it out on him, but you're very upset. We should stop for now.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Do you know what you want to do about Wednesday's?
CLIENT: Yeah. I want the Wednesday appointment.
THERAPIST: Okay. Is that an issue?
CLIENT: I think it's fine.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Getting the clearance is just really hard.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I think three days a week might be helpful for me, but getting here in the afternoons is really hard.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay. Alright. So, I think that will work fine for me starting next week.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: So, then we, I'll plan on seeing you next week, on Wednesday.
CLIENT: Okay. Still at the 8:15?
THERAPIST: 8:30.
CLIENT: 8:30?
THERAPIST: Yeah. It's going to be 8:30 Wednesday and Thursday.
CLIENT: Okay. So, that's next week?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Sorry, I just wanted to make sure I get this.
THERAPIST: No. That's okay. I'm looking at, it looks like the code at the outside door isn't working.
CLIENT: Yeah. I think the buttons were sticky or something.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Thanks.
THERAPIST: Thanks.
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