TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: A little cleaner under my...

THERAPIST: I need to turn it around, too.

CLIENT: That's why I turned it back. No, I just realized that was right. I've got what I thought was going to be a crazy day Thursday. I've got small claims in the morning. God knows when I'm going to get out of there. I'm supposed to have a closing and another closing; but the second closing, I'm just showing up and taking the buyer his documents. I don't really have to prep for anything. As it turns out, the closing they want to close first thing Thursday morning so they can send a wire out. It's a short sale. Now they're asking if we can come in late on Wednesday to sign, which is fine with me. Then I got the closing instructions finally for the closing on Thursday, and they want 72 hours to schedule, which pushes it to Friday. I think my clients would wind up moving trucks and all this crap. [00:01:37] I'm kind of hoping that we close on Friday. I would hate to get the documents Thursday morning and try and scramble. I need to at least ask if there's something we can do, that way I can tell my client in advance. It makes me feel like I'm busy because I have a busy Thursday, but I'm really not that busy. I got in the office yesterday and did work and putzed around a bit. I'm still being productive at least. [00:02:27] I got a text from Dr. Grace on Friday that this other woman is going and am I still going? I'm like, "Sure." Later I get another text that she is not going. "Are you still going?" I'm like, "Sure." Her response was, "Awesome." I got up there and she asked me if I wanted a beer or something, and she offered me some crappy beer like Shock Top. Have you ever heard of Shock Top? It's like one of these big-brewery micro-brews and it's awful. I stated how I thought it was awful and she was like, "Yeah. This is my boyfriend's." She had been dating a guy, but broke up. Apparently, they're back together. At least we had fun. (pause) [00:03:33]

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: I don't know. (chuckles) I don't know. I got jury duty in [error.] (ph?) I just feel like I'm being punished for something, beating my son. I don't beat him, I just make him cry every so often. I'm a little – you know? He's fragile. He wants to roughhouse. If he gets smacked, then he gets upset. The worst part was that I had a good time. She's actually cooler than I thought she was.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: Why "good?" It was funny because. (bell tone) That could be an Amber Alert. No – my team is full rested. They're getting out. (chuckles) I said that I was old and she's 34. I'm going to be 43. She was like, "Oh, no. We're the same age." So every time I would say anything negative, she would say, "No, you're normal," or whatever. Then she never referred to her boyfriend by name. She would just say, "My boyfriend," which I thought was odd. [00:05:21] I don't know if there's some psychological thing there. (sighs) So... back to the drawing board. I was feeling less anxious when I heard Maureen was going, then she was like, "Maureen is not going." Then I wasn't as anxious as before, for some reason. What did I have? Oh, yeah, vodka tonic, whatever, took care of that pretty much. (pause) [00:06:28] You're speechless? You don't know what to think of it. You're trying to find some positive in it.

THERAPIST: No. (pause) I think...

CLIENT: You're rapidly blinking your eyes.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I do that when I'm thinking a lot, usually without realizing it until somebody points it out.

CLIENT: If you get everything to me today, we can close on Thursday.

THERAPIST: I think you're feeling kind of on the spot here, as well as with Dr. Grace – here because you have kind of mixed feelings about how you did. In a way I think you feel sort of – I kind of have a sense you feel you sort of screwed up or were a loser because you didn't hook up with her, which neither of us thinks is realistically true. [00:08:14]

CLIENT: No, it's just another one of these "victim of circumstance" sort of things where it's totally beyond my control, you know?

THERAPIST: One curious thing to me is that I think it went fine. It was nice to hang out, you guys had a good time, it could have been awkward, you know? She could have canceled, you could have bailed, there could have been a bunch of people; but it wasn't. It was just the two of you and it actually went pretty well and you had a pretty good time together. And given that you, I think, worry that you're going to crash and burn in a situation like that, it actually went pretty well. It wasn't actually dating somebody and you guys didn't hook up. [00:09:04]

CLIENT: I wasn't expecting to hook up.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Given that and that she's dating somebody, how could it have gone better?

CLIENT: She wouldn't be dating someone else.

THERAPIST: That's not about you.

CLIENT: No, but I feel...

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: I don't know. It's not like I was devastated or anything like that. It just surprised me that something like that – you know. At least I avoided any further rejection.

THERAPIST: "Further?" When was there initial rejection? [00:09:58]

CLIENT: Any rejection, really.

THERAPIST: I guess what is striking me is how you seem kind of anxious and self-conscious and as though you feel on the spot talking about it when, in fact, your performance was fine.

CLIENT: I'm not worried about my performance, though.

THERAPIST: What are you worried about?

CLIENT: It's not worry.

THERAPIST: You seem anxious. Maybe I'm misreading it.

CLIENT: I don't know. To me it's like it went wrong. That's how I feel.

THERAPIST: I see. How did it go wrong?

CLIENT: Because she's dating someone, the boyfriend who has no name. [00:10:54]

THERAPIST: Beer, but no name.

CLIENT: Yeah. And he drinks crappy beer. Whatever.

THERAPIST: So can you explain that to me? How her having a boyfriend means it went wrong?

CLIENT: I didn't even get an opportunity to – I don't know what one says in these situations – ask her out again or follow up; that whole like of action was made moot. I can go out on a Friday night and drink and have fun all the time. I don't have to drive there to get rejected – not that I was rejected, but there's no difference in my opinion. [00:12:18]

THERAPIST: I see. So you're saying that you're much more focused on the outcome than what you did. Like what you care about is that, in a way, she's off the market, it's not going to happen, and you were hoping otherwise. And your anxiety maybe has more to do with excitement, disappointment, your expectations...

CLIENT: It would have been better if there were things that she did that bothered me or things she said that bothered me or I had found some little... [00:13:06]

THERAPIST: Right but, actually, you were kind of into her, so it's terrible.

CLIENT: Yeah. (both chuckle)

THERAPIST: Maybe you're a little self-conscious about being into her, knowing that...

CLIENT: It's not self-consciousness, it's just that – I don't know – I'm waiting for something to happen to me or for me or whatever, and it doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. I don't know. (pause) [00:14:29]

THERAPIST: And that's kind of your life – that things aren't moving in the right direction.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's frustrating, depressing; but I have all these meds, so I'm not really depressed. Were I not on the meds, I would feel depressed. (sighs) I forgot to mention that Micah upped my Prozac. I'm now taking 40 mg a day. (pause) [00:16:28] What's on your mind?

THERAPIST: I've heard that somewhere before.

CLIENT: (pause) [00:18:18] There's one woman who was going out with a guy, had a boyfriend who lived with her, a total dork. It just seemed weird that she was going out with this guy who was a dork; it was just strange. The last I spoke with her it seemed like they were breaking up but, you know... Nothing. Like I don't think I would ask her out or anything like that. (pause) [00:19:14] Other than that, yeah, I don't have any prospects – realistic prospects. (pause) [00:20:19] You've got to be thinking about something. Something like a question to move the conversation along.

THERAPIST: I wonder why you're stuck.

CLIENT: I don't know. (pause)

THERAPIST: I wonder if the dating thing has maybe got you down.

CLIENT: Or lack, thereof. (pause) [00:21:04] It's the same. I'm just alone, bored out of my mind sometimes. I've actually done a slight amount of cleaning. I took down some recyclables yesterday. I've got a long way to go. (pause) [00:23:36] Ian had a birthday party on Saturday. Someone gave him a poker set. (sighs)

THERAPIST: (chuckles)

CLIENT: To which Jess said, "That's age inappropriate." He always wants to play the Texas Hold ‘em game on my phone, but I'm like – you know. I didn't want to get into explaining it to him. I texted on Sunday, "What are the kids up to?' She was like, "We're going out to my parents." I was like, "That's too bad. I wanted to teach Ian how to play poker." To which, once again, she replied that it's age inappropriate. I was like, "What if he's a child prodigy?" (chuckles) I didn't get a response to that. [00:24:40]

THERAPIST: (chuckles) Your financial woes could be ended.

CLIENT: There's big money in the World Series of Poker. (pause)

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you're in over your head with dating?

CLIENT: (sniggers) Not really because I'm not doing it. (both chuckle) (pause) I'm thinking that you'd agree that poker is age inappropriate for a seven year old. [00:25:43]

THERAPIST: I think that's something that is what you and Jess are comfortable with. I would say that online poker or betting real money poker is age inappropriate; but insofar as a card game, I don't think it's necessarily bad. I think it's most importantly what you guys feel comfortable with.

CLIENT: (pause) [00:27:20] It was weird. Last night there were five episodes of Criminal Minds on back-to-back. In the midnight episode, Jason Alexander was the serial killer, but I was so tired I just went to sleep. I had convinced myself earlier that out of all the episodes shown, that was the one I wanted to see. I feel that at some point I'll get to see it. I didn't know if that was losing interest in things I enjoy or just being tired. I was up at like 6:00. I'm sleeping like six hours. I don't know if that's bad or good. [00:28:21]

THERAPIST: It's not a lot. You're actually waking up?

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm actually waking up at six. I usually lay in bed until seven. I'm staying up relatively late. I would think that because I'm staying up late that I would sleep later, but that's not happening.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: (pause) (yawns) [00:29:54] It seems somewhat like a recurring theme, where with these women there is some impediment, you know? They're dating someone else, "I'm married" or "was married," you know? Something is always...

THERAPIST: [Connects them in a way.] (ph?)

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I mean, I knew it was going to be something, I just didn't know exactly what. But I wasn't completely surprised.

THERAPIST: I think you did know it was going to be something. [00:30:56]

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm usually focusing on old, fat and bald.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you usually are.

CLIENT: We didn't get that far. We know she doesn't think I'm old. She thinks I'm the same age as her. [00:31:41]

THERAPIST: Did it feel like she was attracted to you?

CLIENT: I don't know. Sometimes it does, you know? (pause) I'm a bad judge of that stuff. (pause) Maybe. At this rate, we'll never know. (pause) [00:33:08]

THERAPIST: You don't sound especially hopeful.

CLIENT: Do I ever?

THERAPIST: (both chuckle) You don't usually sound this despairing.

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: Do you mean with anything or do you mean just with dating? With other things, like with work, it's not like you sound triumphant, but you usually sound kind of ambiguous "It feels like I'm busy, but I'm not really busy." You know. That's not real positive, but not real negative either. The dating, I think, you feel much more pessimistic about. That's my impression. [00:34:05]

CLIENT: It reminds me of a joke. You know the Little Johnny jokes? The little kid in the back of the classroom that the teacher is always calling on? She tells the class that tomorrow she'd like everyone to dress up as their favorite emotion. The next day comes and she asks people if they want to share their emotion. Little Billy stands up and he's dressed as a blueberry. He says, "It's blue and I'm sad." "Very good, Billy. I'm sorry you're sad, but that's very good." By the way, it's supposed to be a fruit. It's supposed to be your favorite fruit emotion. (both laugh) So Sally dresses as a banana – yellow – lack of courage. You know – that kind of vehicle. The green, he's horny. The red, cheery – you know how it goes. So they go through all the kids in the classroom and here's little Johnny in the back of the classroom. The teacher is just like, "(sigh) All right, Johnny. What have you got?" So Johnny stands up and takes off his trench coat and he's naked. He has a pear on his penis. "Johnny, what emotion is that?" (both chuckle) He goes, "Isn't it obvious? Fucking despair." (both laugh) [00:35:49] That's what I think of when the word "despair" comes up.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Little Johnny.

THERAPIST: Right. Fucking despair. Freud wrote a paper about that.

CLIENT: Did he? What was the name used?

THERAPIST: That jokes are funny because they provide social outlet for forbidden wishes and thoughts. [00:36:55]

CLIENT: So that allows me to work "fucking despair" into the conversation without just saying, "Fucking despair;" and people thinking, "That's inappropriate," as opposed to, "Oh, that's part of the joke." On Criminal Minds they claim that Freud's view or theories or whatever on dream analysis are bunk, that they've been disproven somehow.

THERAPIST: No, not really. The evidence from studies is actually pretty consistent. It doesn't validate all the elements of Freud's study of dreams, but it's actually pretty consistent with most of it.

CLIENT: I don't often remember my dreams. I assume I am dreaming. [00:38:16]

THERAPIST: Yeah, most people dream. (pause) I think there is something quite poignant and quite particular about the "fucking despair" joke relates to you. I actually think it's very sad. I think there are ways you feel like that's often what you've come to. [00:39:12]

CLIENT: I thought you were going to say you thought it was funny.

THERAPIST: I did also think it was funny. I did think it was funny; but I also thought it was sad. And I think for you it's probably a lot like a dream. That's a pretty good joke, actually. I mean it's got the three elements – the feeling of hopelessness, the lack of confidence and making a joke out of the whole thing. [00:40:11]

CLIENT: Some self-deprecating.

THERAPIST: Exactly.

CLIENT: (sighs) (pause)

THERAPIST: Remember in a hospital a while ago somebody made a fuss about self-esteem and how you thought that was sort of a narcissistic issue like self-esteem? Getting pretty close to the root of the depression trouble you were having?

CLIENT: If you say so.

THERAPIST: You asked me about it at the time, like, "Here it is, right there in the joke." (pause) [00:41:38]

CLIENT: The name of the band eludes me right now, but there is a song about low self-esteem. You know – "I'm just a sucker with low self-esteem." His girlfriend, who is sleeping with all of his friends, is just using him for sex and then I'm like, "Well, at least he's getting used for sex." Offspring is the band. (sighs) I feel a little more anxious than when I came in here. I wasn't feeling very anxious when I came in here. I don't know if I should blame you or – you don't care. [00:42:41]

THERAPIST: Well, I imagine you do. I imagine you're kind of annoyed with me and bringing you down a little with what I said.

CLIENT: (sighs) I don't know if "annoyed" is the right – I'm not going to add much thought or credence to it, as true as it may be, you know?

THERAPIST: Why don't we stop for now?

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