TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I have a couple of nice pictures that have been sitting in my office since I moved in. I moved in before that, actually. I don't have any nails or hammers or anything like that. I did clean my bathroom on Sunday. This is my $300 dating wardrobe. I figured I might as well get some use out of it.
THERAPIST: (laughs) Very nice. I hadn't billed you last week, that's why...
CLIENT: I got it. I was disappointed. I was trying to give you shit.
THERAPIST: I noticed. (both chuckle) [00:01:05]
CLIENT: (pause) I finally spoke on the phone with Olivia. We text back and forth pretty regularly. I took Ian to the – what are you staring at?
THERAPIST: I was just noticing those are new shoes, too. The whole ensemble – the blue, the gray, the black.
CLIENT: I spent $200 on a pair of jeans, and a sweater and shirt. I got a belt, too, which you can't see, so I don't really know why I bought it. I took Ian to the game and we were texting during the game. She was like, "Call me tonight after 8:00." [00:02:02] I went home with Ian. We watched some TV, played with the iPhone, and I made sure he got into bed at 9:00. (chuckles) I had a little drink to calm my nerves and I called her about 9:30. We got off the phone about 3:00.
THERAPIST: My God. 9:30 to 3:00?
CLIENT: Five-and-a-half hours.
THERAPIST: Whoa.
CLIENT: And who comes and wakes me up at 5:30 in the morning? (laughs) He was laying right next to me, but Ian.
THERAPIST: That's exciting. [00:03:01]
CLIENT: Yeah. (laughs) Friday night I was at some friends' house doing our little pre-brew-up tasting research thing. We played this game, Cards Against Humanity. Have you ever heard of it?
THERAPIST: (laughs) No.
CLIENT: Have you heard of Apples to Apples?
THERAPIST: Yes, I'm familiar with that.
CLIENT: Have you played Apples to Apples?
THERAPIST: Yes. I think that's the one where they have to give a word that relates to the chosen word.
CLIENT: There's a little phrase and you put your word in that you think goes best with the question or whatever. Cards Against Humanity is just like that, but it is wrong on so many levels that it is hilarious – offensive, racist, sexist. I could not stop laughing. I actually had to give my cards to someone else to read. [00:04:02]
THERAPIST: (chuckles) Obviously it's the same game but the topics and the words are...
CLIENT: Yeah, my buddy just got the expansion pack and the first thing you saw was "black dick" was the... The classic of the night that came towards the end, right as we were finishing up, was "Pac Man uncontrollably guzzling come". In fact, we decided when we ended the game that everybody was going to take a black card where you have this little phrase or question and we were going to add "Pac Man uncontrollably guzzling come" to that; and it was just hilarious. I texted Olivia that we played this game and she went and checked it out. She was like, "Oh, I've got to play that game." So at some point, I brought up the point – this was probably when we were talking on the phone about Pac Man uncontrollably guzzling come, which she thought was hilarious. [00:05:04] And that's the big difference between her and Jess. Jess would be completely offended by that. She would not have enjoyed the game. Several times during the conversation, because I was half asleep or whatever, she kept talking about – because somewhere along the line I brought up that I hadn't been on a date in 15 years. She was saying things like, "You should try and go on some dates for practice." Things like that. [00:05:52] Then she sends me this text a couple of days later, maybe Sunday or whatever, something about she doesn't want me to be disappointed if we meet and we don't click or whatever; that I should – whatever. Same kind of "looking at other women" or "try and get other dates". I got kind of pissy because – I may have mentioned to you before that a lot of people had said that – be prepared, don't get disappointed. I kind of wrote this really pissy response. I said, "First of all, I haven't put all my eggs in one basket. I am trying to get other dates and whatnot. [00:07:02] How can you want to go out with someone and, if it doesn't work out, how can you not be disappointed? Even on a blind date, if you were looking forward to it and it didn't work out, you'd be disappointed." It was much longer than that, much more in depth.
THERAPIST: Having the feelings and accepting them.
CLIENT: Whatever. First of all, she apologized. I didn't mean for it to be something against her. I was saying it more general, how a lot of people... And I said that ironically, my brother who has the type of personality that he'd be the first person to give me some condescending lecture on how to online date, he's the only one that says, "Good luck. I hope it works out." She apologizes and her response is along the lines that I'm the one who would not click with her. [00:08:24]
THERAPIST: Oh, you'd be disappointed in her, not the other way around.
CLIENT: Right. Right. And she mentioned that on the phone, as well. She was brutally honest, so I'm having trouble deciding whether she's being brutally honest. She doesn't seem to be the type of person that would be worried about something, like something would bother her if it didn't work out; or if she's just trying to kind of make it more positive to me or whatever. So I'm kind of confused about that. I'm very confused about the whole thing because a five-and-a-half-hour phone conversation, we chat all the time... [00:09:18] We were talking about messages that we sent to other people and I said, "Maybe I should stop asking women what they think about Pac Man uncontrollably guzzling come and she made some comment after that. And then she sends a text right after that that says, "No woman takes come like I do," and wrote "tee-hee" underneath it. There's a joke to that side of that, but I don't know if there's something more involved in there. Whatever. It's confusing; it's very confusing. [00:10:11]
I was kind of complaining how I try and message these women, but I really don't get good responses and whatnot, or they respond and then they don't – whatever. She listed all these kind of creepy messages she gets. She was wondering – these guys keep sending them. Maybe they've got to be working and we've got to keep sending creepy messages. I was like, "Well, let's do an experiment." So I took one of her messages, which was, "Do you want to hook up, gorgeous?" and I randomly messaged about ten women. I only ended up chatting with this woman from Louisian. [00:11:03] I'm like, "How far is Manchester to Wellington?" She's like, "28 hours." I said, "On Aterol it would only be 23." And then she said, "On Aterol you'd get a speeding ticket." I gave a little frowny face. I even explained to her that this was all part of an experiment. As I was explaining it to Olivia, she goes... something about she has veto power and that this woman sucks. Anyway, she keeps saying these weird things. It's half joke but – what does she mean "she has veto power"? [00:12:06] It's interesting because about half the women, and I made sure they were women that didn't match up, that there was some issue there that I didn't like – their pictures or whatever. Like there was a really frowny-faced woman. About half of them went and checked my profile out. First of all, she thought it was fucking hilarious that I did this. I even sent the message to her, (both chuckle) which she thought was funny. She called me a brat. But none of the women messaged me, so my conclusion about the experiment was that the creepy line works and that the women are like, "Hey, let me check this dude out and, if he's hot, maybe I'll hook up with him." [00:13:11] Then they get to my profile and they see that non-creepy, nice guy or whatever. Her response was that women, when they get a message from a guy, they just automatically check the profile. She checks every guy's profile, no matter what they send which I think is what she does, but I'm not sure that's what all of these other women do. It's really a ton of messages. She makes an effort to reply to everybody, no matter how creepy or whatever. Most women aren't like that, so I'm thinking that some of these women really... I guess that does work for some people. [00:14:05] It's weird because a lot of these women, some will say "friends", some will say "short-term dating", some will say "long-term dating"; some will even say "quick hook-up" or whatever. Most of these women have "long-term dating". I just found it interesting. It's like one moment I'm kind of happy with the way things are going and the next moment I'm not so sure. I'm confused. It feels like there's a lot of pressure being put on this first little coffee-thing we're having, about us clicking. Then in the text, she put, "We'll definitely be friends." I don't know. The fact that she brings it up and so many people have brought it up to me, I got sick of it. When she apologized I said, "There's no need to apologize. It's just something that's spinning in my head and I need to get it off my chest." I said, "I'm a big boy. I've been through a lot. I'll be okay,"(chuckles) which we both know isn't true. (both laugh) At this point, maybe "investment" is the wrong word to use, but I don't text with anyone; and now I'm texting with this woman four or five times a day. [00:15:52]
THERAPIST: One of the things I'm wondering about is whether she was saying this stuff about "be prepared in case we don't click" is because she's really nervous. I'm not really sure if I'm getting this right or not, but you seem to be taking it as though she's saying, "Hey, I just may not be that into you when we actually meet."
CLIENT: Because she brings it up in the context of – because she's done online dating before – I think she sees it, number one, just giving me the low-down on online dating and how it kind of works and just dating in general. I think it just has to do with her experience of it not clicking, having gone on these first dates and just not been there. [00:16:56] Maybe both people decide it's not going to work out, maybe one. I don't know. She really hasn't given any impression one way or the other. She's very confident. To say she was nervous or worried just doesn't seem to fit her personality, no matter how much she digs me or whatever. She did say her mom likes me – not initially because of the separation thing. And she still has brought that up a couple of times.
THERAPIST: What's her concern with it?
CLIENT: With the separation thing? Apparently, she said she'd been burned; but I think the story she told was that there is this guy she knew for ten years. She didn't say how long they were dating, but they got engaged. It turns out that she was the other woman.
THERAPIST: Oooh. [00:17:56]
CLIENT: That's kind of circling in there.
THERAPIST: How does that relate to the separation?
CLIENT: I think she's worried that I'm going to go back with Jess.
THERAPIST: I see, that you'd go back to Jess. Jess's really the main woman in your life.
CLIENT: Yeah, that maybe I'm not really even separated, that it's some short-term separation.
THERAPIST: That's what I wondered because I wondered if it was something like that or something like well, that just means you're recently married and you guys aren't...
CLIENT: She used the word that it was an "emotional risk" she didn't want to take.
THERAPIST: As best I can tell, that's not actually in real life an issue. I'm not saying she might not worry about it, but it doesn't seem like there have been any indications that you want to get back with Jess. [00:18:58]
CLIENT: Oh, no. But trying to convey that to somebody you've never met before...
THERAPIST: No, I understand. That doesn't mean she won't worry about it.
CLIENT: Because Paige just flat-out wouldn't date someone who's separated, as a policy.
THERAPIST: No, I get it.
CLIENT: So now, when I message women, I put that in there. "No name" was fine with it. She said, "As long as you're interested in a serious relationship." This other woman just never got back to me, even though she asked me out on a date and my response was at the very end. Then I went back and forth with this woman who's a member of the farm. She seems to be a little too Jewish for me.
THERAPIST: You said she was kind of into you and, initially, you weren't into her. [00:19:56]
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I told her how I do these, that I start off with a joke and blah, blah, blah. At the end I put, "Here's my cut-and-paste part." I asked all these questions and I left out the fact that I was separated. Last night she started out with a joke and kind of went through all this stuff, your favorite veggie, and all the little things. I'd asked her what her favorite restaurants were and she asked me, "What's your favorite restaurants in Andover? Maybe we could go to one." So I'm going to send her a message back that explains my situation. "If that bothers you, let me know. If that doesn't bother you, I'll send you a charming, witty response." [00:20:55] I figure, to someone who is at the farm that I may run into... I also feel, and I haven't mentioned this, I said, "I volunteer a lot at the farm," but I didn't go to the point of saying, "I'm a board member." In fact, I don't think I even told her my name because I'm worried that she would google the farm and my name and that would come up on the website as board of director. Then she would know my last name. I don't know. I'm not worried about that stuff. Olivia keeps telling me I should be worried about that stuff. [00:21:29]
I did find out that Olivia's last name starts with a "D". I don't know if she was surprised that I found that out, but I learned that she lives in Roxbury. Match said she lives within two miles, so I figured she lived in Charlestown or whatever. The zip codes in Manchester are fucked up and they've changed; and that's probably what was happening. She had made a reference when we were talking about commuting, and she had mentioned something about driving from Roxbury to Plymouth. Ha-ha-ha. I thought maybe that was like a job thing. Maybe she used to live in Plymouth and she got a job in Roxbury. Then, when she finally said she lived in Roxbury, I put it together that she thought I lived in Plymouth; and she lives in Roxbury and had the commute for the dating part, which is like a 3060-minute ride. It's probably quicker on my bike, there are so many lights and traffic and whatnot. [00:22:38] I googled "Olivia in Roslindale", and up comes her profile on some other websites. She does both pet and kids and tutoring and all of this stuff. I learned all of this other stuff about her; and she uses a different picture. She was like, "I wonder how you got that," but she didn't say how she thought I knew. She actually told me her first name, that Olivia is short for her first name, which is like "Effemia" (sp?) or... I can't remember. [00:23:26]
THERAPIST: What's her ethnicity?
CLIENT: Mediterranean. She told me that people call her Bubbles or Bubs, and I asked if I could call her Bubbles and there was some comment like "you don't know me well enough", or something like that. She said that her family is the only one in New Hampshire that has that name. I did some searches and really came up blank. It's kind of hard to just go with one letter, looking for a Mediterranean name. Does it start "Bu"? "Bo"? Who knows. "Bou"? I haven't tried that. Now that I know a little more, I've got my sources and I'm waiting for an e-mail to find out what I can find out. I may find her last name yet. [00:24:32]
THERAPIST: Why do you want to know it?
CLIENT: Because she knows my last name. She googled my cell phone number and all my work stuff came up. I see it as a game, that she's gone through great lengths to...
THERAPIST: I see. Conceal that fact?
CLIENT: Yeah. So I guess she's been stalked at some point. People think they're being stalked when they're really just some guy, some creepy guy that won't leave them alone. A stalker is a really dangerous person. I know she's being cautious, but that adds to the confusion. She's constantly updating her profile. She added new pictures. [00:25:34] She put on there, "Don't message me if you're separated or married." It's funny, because she had a list of things, and the first one was, "Don't message me if you're separated or married." And then the other one was something about both of us being infallible and something about, maybe, forgiveness or something like that. I said, "Well, I fall flat on number one, but I think I've got these other two down." The whole thing is very confusing. One moment I'll be very happy about it. Obviously, on Sunday I was happy about it in the morning and then as the day kind of went on... She's telling me she's going to see her dad and she's doing this, and I log on and it tells you what online favorites are logged on, and she was logged on all the time. Then I figured it out that she probably just left her computer on. I checked the next morning and it was still – whatever. Once again, obviously she's not worried, but she has a plan in place that, if it doesn't work out... She doesn't have time to date me so she can't be dating someone else. [00:27:16]
THERAPIST: When are you having coffee?
CLIENT: She's going out of town this weekend. She's going down to Pennsylvania to officiate a wedding. I guess she took an online course to be ordained and her title is... I can't remember. She said she has two jobs and she works these eleven-hour days; and she doesn't want to meet after an eleven-hour day. She wants to be fresh enough, obviously. My presumption is maybe the following weekend. The thing is that this past weekend she had said she had friends coming in from town and stuff like that; and she never really mentioned it this weekend. She spent Friday night with her nephew. She said she blew off going out with friends, but it was really kind of the first indication that she said something that may not be true. It may be true and she just spent time out. I don't know. [00:28:31] The Pennsylvania thing I believe because she said, contrary to what was in her questions, that she thinks she should meet sooner rather than later. I tend to give her the benefit of the doubt and believe her on things because she's brutally honest, just in these texts that she's given me. I don't know. Every time I get confused or worried if something happens, I'm unhappy again. I asked her, "Is it weird that I live alone and I still close the bathroom door?" I actually only do it when I do number two. When I pee, I don't. Part of it is because the door is kind of in the way. She thought that was hilarious because she does the same thing. We've got that going together. Yeah, there seems to be a building amount of pressure on this coffee that, I don't know, has me... [00:30:02]
THERAPIST: I think you're incredibly anxious about all of this.
CLIENT: Oh, yeah. And I'm fighting with myself about it, arguing with myself. Is the concern that she's worried that I'm not going to be attracted to her? Or that it's just not going to work out in general? Or that she's not going to be attracted to me? I know you find this hard to believe, but I tend to fall back on the position that is the least self-confident. (chuckles) And "no name" asked me to go out on a date, either the 12th or the 13th, and I replied, "The 12th." She hasn't gotten back to me, which is par for the course. I really have just kind of been overwhelmed with it. [00:30:59] A lot of women have been visiting my site and they just haven't really... It's a lot of effort to come up with a message that's charming and witty. A lot of these profiles that I read, like the woman with the farm, her profile sucks. There's nothing there of substance. That was the difference with Olivia. She's got a lot of substance about who she is and what she wants. Initially, I was concerned about her upgrading and continually working on her profile, but she did not expect, really because she knew she was busy, she said she really didn't expect to start doing things until June, but that she just logged on and – whatever. This may just be her trying to update things and whatnot. [00:32:07]
I played Frisbee last night. I'm really fucking out of shape. It was painful. It was fucking cold and windy and miserable. But every time I had said I'm not going to play any more points, I went back and played more points. I'm going to work out with a personal trainer tomorrow. I thought I had money and I don't. My title guy is sending me about $1,700 and thanked me for my patience, but then I realized that still leaves me in the hole. I called my dad and I prepped him that I might be asking him for money. This guy on my Frisbee team is older than me and he's in fantastic shape. He's the one who introduced me to the Hindu squats and push-ups. [00:33:06] He lives in Lynn and the studio is there and I'm in Pembroke, so I'm like, "Why don't we do it every Wednesday at 4:00?" We meet once a week and he gives you homework. He's developed this system of cards so your workout is different every time. He's actually been certified now as a personal trainer. He knows a lot about nutrition.
THERAPIST: I hope it goes well.
CLIENT: Oh, well. It definitely will get me in shape. I wouldn't do it otherwise. I'm always skeptical of these other trainers where you've got to have equipment. That kind of stuff just seems like you'd get bored with it. It's easy to do this stuff in your apartment. I think what happened with me is I got bored with just doing Hindu push-ups and squats, but now I'll have more choices. It's all body weight. It's all working out with your body weight. [00:34:14]
THERAPIST: And it's also something you can do in your apartment without a whole bunch of equipment.
CLIENT: I'm going to do that tomorrow. I may have Toad's practice on Thursday. I may have a tournament on Sunday, though they haven't gotten back to us yet, whether we're in the tournament or yet; which, to me, suggests that they're waiting to see if teams drop out. They're kind of keeping us in the lurch. But we would just combine a couple of teams, so it's part Dirt, part Toads. [00:35:04] I wasn't motivating myself to get back in shape and do anything, so just having to have to go to Frisbee last night just got me out there. Now I've broken the ice. Olivia sent me a text at 5:00 that she's now walking in the morning to get her to go back into working out. I told her that I was concerned that I might die from exertion or exhaustion or joy, the typical myocardial infarction, and that, if I die and I can't make it to the coffee, that I hope she would understand. (chuckles) [00:35:58] I think doing the workouts will get me in probably the best shape of my life because, at the end of last summer, I noticed this huge difference in the tournament and how I played. I've just got to keep it up. I'm working on the bill for the crazy condo people. I spent about an hour-and-a-half yesterday and I'm going to finish it up today. They're probably going to owe me about $6,000. I'm just estimating it. I don't know when I'm going to get paid or how I'm going to get paid I couldn't find an engagement letter which sucks because, if I had the engagement letter, then I could say, "If you don't pay me within 30 days, I'll start charging interest." I'm a little reluctant to do that, but if I have to sue them I'll get interest. The court would tack on interest. [00:36:56]
THERAPIST: You sound a little pressured today, actually. I think because you think that's so much to put out there because there's so much churning around because of the dating stuff. (pause) I think there's a pressure to get it out there and explain it to me to kind of help you calm down and feel a little more settled.
CLIENT: I've got to pee. I peed a lot. I was drinking a lot of water yesterday. I've decided to stop drinking Gatorade and Red Bull. The Red Bull is partially a concern with the Aterol for me. Red Bull, in and of itself, could cause problems with the amount of caffeine or whatever in there. There's a lot of sugar in there, as well. I definitely was yawning during the game, but I think if I get in better shape and try to keep myself more hydrated that... I might do the Gatorade on a really hot day. Try to be a little more natural with what I put in my body. Jess has definitely decided to move house. She took the kids over to see it. She still wants me to go through with the fucking modification, which I think she just wants to delay everything so she can still keep getting rents. [00:39:04]
It's just such a fucking pain in the ass. I feel overwhelmed with everything else I'm doing in my life. When I have downtime, it's the last thing I want to do. I was going to work on it today and then I realized that I've got to do all these letters for Thursday and tomorrow I'm going back to doing the volunteering in the housing court. I've got a meeting with the realtor at 1:00 and I've got this workout thing at 4:00. I need to put 40 letters together. I can't do that because I don't have a decent printer. I've got to pick Ian up at 2:30, so I'm going to go from here to Staples, get some... I've been using all the old stationery. Well, I have to get rid of it, but for these, I think it needs to be me so I'm just going to get some nice envelopes.... I've been using all the stationery. Well, I have to get rid of it, but for these, I think it needs to be me so I'm just going to get some nice envelopes. I've got a header I use and I could put my return address, using Stamps.com or whatever. It just seems so bizarre to me that we wouldn't connect, you know? [00:40:28]
THERAPIST: You have to think that five-and-a-half hours on the phone is a pretty good sign. That's sort of one of the things that I'm trying to puzzle out as you're talking. You're texting four and five times a day, you spent five-and-a-half hours on the phone until 3:00 in the morning the other night; and yet the two of you are worried about "what is the other one's last name and what's this little thing I can find out?" The stuff that seems... [00:40:59]
CLIENT: It's a game right now.
THERAPIST: Yeah, or like "What did she mean by this? And, "What does she mean by that?"
CLIENT: Well, that's just me. You know how I am. I'm going to try and find the negative in everything. Of course, the benefit in all of this is that, when I text her things that normally I would complain about, I take the opposite tack and put some positive spin on it.
THERAPIST: You want to find the negative stuff before she does so at least you don't feel surprised. Like you're so worried or so sure she's going to shoot you down, that you want to be kind of preemptive. [00:42:04]
CLIENT: She talks about this click thing. It's like what is that, you know? I've already set her up. I told her I was follicly-challenged and she says I should shave my head. She thinks that's – you know. So she used to go for the tough-guy thing, but that never panned out. I said I've got an ugly scalp so I'm not going to shave my head. If that's a non-starter, then so be it. I don't know. It's been dragging out and just... (pause) I seriously doubt there's some other guy she's texting with and doing all these same things with. [00:43:03]
THERAPIST: By far, the most plausible thing seems that your doubts and fears have a lot to do with you, not that you compare and think that all the worry and the vigilance, this, that and the other thing, have to do with crummy things you think about yourself. (pause)
CLIENT: And then I'm like, "Well, if it does work out..." She's a counselor so she deals with all that stuff with kids. At what point do I bring up...? I'm always worrying. I'm three steps ahead, worrying. [00:43:57] That's why I felt like I had to bring out that I'd been through a long road. I literaried it up, saying I had a wide river to cross. Sometimes I get pulled back in the water. It's a song, Wide River to Cross. I don't know who originally did it, but Levon Helm did a cover of it that's really good. She probably thinks it's just the marriage thing or whatever. I don't know.
THERAPIST: We should stop for now.
CLIENT: Did we get the extra time in or...? I've got to pee really bad. I don't know if I want to touch your key that's been touched with pee-pee hands.
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