TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Not much has happened since Tuesday. Been busy, not with anything that's going to pay me a lot of money. I had work due Monday and so I did it last night and it took me hours until this morning. Just a pain in the ass. You know when you do these, certain towns, then you get like into the 80's and early 90's with the SML, the other crap that went on, you see people doing refi, refi, refi and then you know you see the stuff starting up you recorded for foreclosure and the same thing happens again in 2003 or 5, 6, 7, 8 you know so it just takes a long time abstracting every piece of paper that's been filed on the property. [1:39] And of course it's hard to take to court, it's been, the current owners at the bank so you have that foreclosure as well. There's about seven different documents for a foreclosure. So I probably, maybe spent three hours, four hours...Got the runaround all day today.(pause) I was telling Marcia how long a title exam was taking and she says "Why don't you hire a title examiner?" I said "I am the title examiner." (laughter) She isn't realistic. She's told us "Work every now and again." It makes me sweat. [2:58] So how are you doing?

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: Glad the heat's gone?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It was gross yesterday. Even after the heat kind of went away it was still...like my trainer got an air conditioner.

THERAPIST: That's good.

CLIENT: Monday sucked but...

THERAPIST: The air in here wasn't working for a few hours yesterday, it was like 80 degrees.

CLIENT: That sucks. Did you want to go to the park? I guess it was probably hot; it was probably cooler out there. It's been wet. (finger drumming) (pause) I really need to do that spreadsheet with all my expenses on it because I start writing checks and then I realize I need them for other things so there's some checks luckily I haven't mailed so those I don't have to send off right away but I gave Jess money for health insurance, her rent, I got to pay my rent and...yeah. [4:42] I'm not getting any money until next week, maybe some small checks...I'm going to drive from Essex, put something on record, make $50 for doing that, almost covers my gas. Tomorrow I have to Andover but it's lien court so that will take forever and now he's like "I don't know where I'm going to get the wire in," and I'm like "I'm not waiting until ten o'clock to get a number you know, I'll be there for two hours," where if I get there at 8:30 I'll be out of there in 15 or 20 minutes. If it was my closing I would go on record before I had the buyer, just to refinance it's not a purchase. In fact I'd wait until Monday to go on record, do it myself, that's me. I don't know. [6:02] I've only had one closing where I didn't receive the wire right away, there may have been one or two where they sent the wire, it got messed up somehow, there was one that took like two weeks from this company and when the bank failed and there was a run on branches, well they were closed but people outside the branches and there was a gentleman just kind of leaning up against his Jaguar, $100,000 sports car whatever it was, and so they interviewed him and he was like "Well you know, I've only got so much money with this bank, I'm not too worried," and who is he? He's the president of a mortgage company so it's like he caused this whole mess and he's just sitting there like this, waiting to go in and get his money (chuckles) that he doesn't need but everyone else in there is like...so I found it kind of ironic.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [7:15]

CLIENT: He was completely unnerved, everyone else was panicking. (pause) But those lenders are gone. (pause) So Ian has a play date, and then I'm like "Can you sleep over that night?" Do you think he should cancel the play date or go to the play date?

THERAPIST: Wait, he's having, when you say play date he's going to a friend's or having a friend over?

CLIENT: I think they're going to the park at like six o'clock.

THERAPIST: And your question is whether I think he should cancel the play date so he can hang out with you and then sleep over or that he should keep the play date and then sleep over or...?

CLIENT: That's one of the options, yeah but I'm not going to...you know. It's a lot of trouble for basically just having him crowd me in my bed, make me sweat. [8:59] I have to push him off... (pause) I think it was last Thursday that my tenant told me he put the check in the mail for the rent. It's funny because when I used to put my mail over there in Wales I never had this delay. I don't know what post office he's using... (pause) [10:09] I'm going to a wedding Saturday night with Marcia. She calls these people her "other friends." I think they're her non, sort of (inaudible) Watertown friends. I don't know if they're from Watertown or not...(pause) She texted me, she's like "Do you remember we have the wedding Saturday?" and I wish, we talked about Monday but she knows I can be a little forgetful so I'm like "Bristol?" exclamation point, exclamation point and she's like "Yeah," and I said "No I don't remember." (chuckles) [11:20] (sighs) Of course today the bank is asking me for something I think I've already sent them for a closing on Tuesday which is delaying getting the docs, I can work on the docs but my day is jam packed, maybe I can stop by a Panera. I've already sent it to them, I just need to re-e-mail it, that should take, you know time for my computer to boot up and shut down, which I can do while I'm driving so hopefully...

THERAPIST: Well...

CLIENT: I'm just trying to come up with something, just to not bore you.

THERAPIST: Well I think you're feeling pretty bored and you're talking a lot about work in a way that makes it sound like it's kind of grinding and boring and numbing.

CLIENT: What drug do they have for that?

THERAPIST: And I think...

CLIENT: Oh heroin, I think heroin...

THERAPIST: You're actually also telling me about...your trying to make a case for why you don't want to work on things here. [13:04]

CLIENT: I'm supposed to work on things here?

THERAPIST: Generally people come to therapy because they want to work on things or that's part of what they want.

CLIENT: I feel like I have to, you know. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Like you have to come here?

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm not saying it's not my choice but to me it's more of an obligation than you know, something I want to do. I hope that doesn't make you feel bad.

THERAPIST: (chuckles) Well...

CLIENT: "Oh my I thought he was coming to see me..."

THERAPIST: Um...(pause) So you feel obligated to come here but not because you come here to work on things?

CLIENT: I don't know, it's not like I really have a picture in my mind of why I come here, you know? It's like...

THERAPIST: That's a little unusual.

CLIENT: It's like I'm going through the motions but I'm not, but that's how I feel. I'm going because it's what I'm supposed to do. (pause)

THERAPIST: Mm hmm. [14:55]

CLIENT: How's that make you feel?

THERAPIST: Usually...

CLIENT: You don't see people that like their parents are making them come in or...?

THERAPIST: Kids sometimes.

CLIENT: Like paternity because they beat up their girlfriends?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: Anger management?

THERAPIST: Um...yeah generally people come in (pause) wanting to work on something or when kids are forced to come in...

CLIENT: I mean I was kind of forced to come in.

THERAPIST: Kids generally because they're really upset about something (pause) and I guess that's probably closer to the mark then you...

CLIENT: But I'm here because I'm upset about something.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [16:28]

CLIENT: I don't want to work on it.

THERAPIST: Huh?

CLIENT: I don't want to work on it.

THERAPIST: Well I think part of what you're...communicating something about why you don't want to work on it in what you're saying today and what you've said many other times because to you working on things feels like...

CLIENT: Work.

THERAPIST: Yeah but I think for you that means something...

CLIENT: Why can't we fun on things? No one ever funs on anything. Play, let's play on something, that's probably a better word to use.

THERAPIST: Yeah I think that is kind of an important part of the point that work and play are very different for you. I think work feels kind of soul crushing for you a lot of the time, like lifeless and grinding and sort of soul crushing.

CLIENT: You said that.

THERAPIST: And...

CLIENT: Have you used that in your practice before? Soul crushing?

THERAPIST: Um...

CLIENT: It's a very powerful phrase don't you think? [18:02] It's like when someone says "I hate..." something, you know, like "Do you really hate it?" Hate's a strong word. Soul crushing you know, the word crushing sounds crushing you know?

THERAPIST: Go ahead.

CLIENT: Sorry. That things not, you know, accurate but...

THERAPIST: I think you are saying it's pretty upsetting.

CLIENT: I wouldn't know, I'm heavily medicated.

THERAPIST: But you know enough to make a joke out of it.

CLIENT: I make a joke out of everything. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: You can try not to for a minute, you don't though.

CLIENT: Name one thing. (pause) I even wanted to post something to Facebook about Trayvon Martin but judgment was the better part of valor. He I guess, moments before he died, he told whoever he was on the phone with that there's a crazy ass cracker watching him, whatever and I was going to post on behalf of all crazy ass crackers that we're not all killers but I figured people would take that the wrong way. Whenever Jess would say cracker, like to a kid doing a cracker, I would say "You calling me a cracker?" shit like that. [19:44] Unlike Aaron Hernandez which made me feel sad.

THERAPIST: What was that?

CLIENT: He's the Patriots tight end who was arrested for murder.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah.

CLIENT: He went to the University of Florida, won a national championship, was a superstar there and was a star on his way to superstardom with the Patriots. He had a troubled past, he was supposed to be drafted late first, early second round, slipped to the fourth and ...

THERAPIST: How does that relate to having a troubled past?

CLIENT: That's why he slipped, because he failed drug tests and was smoking marijuana and he hung out with the wrong crowd but the...Florida needs from Connecticut...

THERAPIST: I see so he's like talented enough to go late first, early second round but because he was sort of troubled in that way, kind of a risk?

CLIENT: Yeah and then ended up giving him a contract extension with like a 12 million dollar signing bonus to make up for what he wasn't making as a fourth round draft pick because he's been phenomenal. [20:58] He's had injuries but...and he dropped a very crucial pass but who hasn't? It's stupending (sp?), if your signing bonus is 12.6 million what's your yearly take, you know, because I think it's prorated over five years, which for the team...for him he's probably making four or five a year, I don't know. Everybody kind of thought it was going to be an obstruction of justice type of charge or manslaughter something, you know, but basically the prosecutor says at the arraignment or whatever that they had video on his home security camera of someone entering the house with the gun. They didn't say if it was him or not but they wouldn't say it if it wasn't him, you know, so just...upsetting but for various reasons. [22:11] I feel bad for the guy, everybody else is like "What a dirt bag," obviously he killed someone but...it's not normal for someone to be in that situation where they've got everything going for them and yeah you know, you sell some drugs, beat up your wife, drunk drive, kill someone but to execute...they said it was execution style, it's not like he pulled a gun in a bar and got in a fight or something like that, that happens to athletes you know...

THERAPIST: Yeah it was like murder one.

CLIENT: Yeah and it wasn't an overcharge, very often they'll overcharge to get a plea down to like manslaughter, something like that, they do murder one in that state. (pause) I don't believe so I think there's just...the degrees just have different names as opposed to murder one or second degree murder...I don't know, I'm not a state attorney.

THERAPIST: And who was it that he killed, was it his girlfriend?

CLIENT: His sister's...I don't know because the rumor I heard first was that it's his sister's boyfriend but apparently it's a friend of his that they got into a fight several nights earlier at a club so...[23:49] The rumor is that this was drug related so why does a guy making four or five million dollars year, who had 12 million all at once, why does he need to be involved in drug dealing? You usually don't see a buyer of drugs kill someone, you know, so these guys were probably in some sort of operation together I would think. Something went wrong, the guy probably stole something from him because he's not making four or five million a year. (pause) It's not like he was my hero or I thought of him as a role model but just you know, I've rooted for him for many years. I wanted him to be successful. [25:00] I watch too much TV, I've become sympathetic for crazy killers.

THERAPIST: No I think there's some way you feel you identify with him. There's something about wanting to see him make it that means something to you.

CLIENT: (inaudible) hmm.

THERAPIST: So are you.

CLIENT: Yeah...but the thing is, is that he had been the model citizen up until this. Apparently he was still hanging around bad people but that doesn't make you a bad person you know, we all know that people...well you might not but (inaudible)...I don't know why I'm talking about this. [26:16] Did I tell you about the guy, the amateur, he does some hard money lending and he's done some real lending as well and yeah I mean big, guy, he used to work on the non-market basket side of the business and he's missing some...clearly not a birth defect. On his right hand too, so...

THERAPIST: He's missing both thumbs?

CLIENT: Just his right hand but if you were cutting something or doing something, you would cut your left thumb off if you were right handed but they've done it so like every time someone goes to shake his hand they shake the thumb less hand. I've never asked him what happened because he's a big guy (chuckles) but at least it makes for a good story. Nice guy though, really nice, always asks how I'm doing, how are the kids, let's get together in Andover...[27:29] Maybe he changes either way...(pause) I've spent an awful lot of time in the car.

THERAPIST: I think you also you have probably a pretty dark, like murderously, angry streak.

CLIENT: You think I could kill someone?

THERAPIST: I don't really know about that.

CLIENT: I don't know (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Right. There's something about the way you're talking about this dark stuff that feels like...

CLIENT: I've never struck anyone in anger, well not (inaudible) and not during a fight. I've struck people in humor, Christian cried but he got the joke. [28:52] You know like "Let's see who can hit each other the softest," he'd go first (chuckles). I didn't hit him that hard, little soft. So I've got this murderous, anger streak, let's just go back to all the things you've labeled me: drama queen, I'm an angry murderer, I have no soul...

THERAPIST: (chuckles) I didn't say you were a murderer or that you have no soul. I think you find work soul crushing.

CLIENT: Which results in...?

THERAPIST: An experience of feeling like your soul is being crushed by working.

CLIENT: Not that it's actually being crushed?

THERAPIST: It seems to have gotten your attention.

CLIENT: What you using the word?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Soul crushing? Yeah I thought it was very...it painted quite a picture. As does murderously angry (chuckles). I feel happy. (pause) [30:20] Are you like a mechanic? Where someone comes in for one thing and you break something else just so you can keep the business going you know? I started out depressed (laughs) and now I'm an angry murderer. I'm sorry I'm just having fun. Okay here is the problem let's assume the innuendo that I am in fact murderously angry but I don't feel murderously angry because I'm on a mood stabilizer correct? Well that's one of the reasons.

THERAPIST: Okay...

CLIENT: How can I work on being murderously angry if I don't perceive myself to be murderously angry? Because my mood has been stabilized. [31:53] I have all these weird facial tics now because of the grinding of my...my mom's afraid like I'm making the wrong expression to someone because I twitch my mouth around and my nose...

THERAPIST: Well I think it disturbed you when I...

CLIENT: Called me murderously angry?

THERAPIST: Talked about work and the sort of...in the terms I did, I guess apparently like referring to it as feeling soul crushing and I think that...

CLIENT: I've got a pretty crappy memory, I'll put that on the table right now but you did not use the word feeling. Working is soul crushing.

THERAPIST: What I said is...I didn't say that either I said "You are describing work in terms that make it sound like it's soul crushing."

CLIENT: If you want to believe that that's fine. We'll agree to disagree. [33:15]

THERAPIST: My point is, I think it disturbed you when I said that.

CLIENT: Yeah!

THERAPIST: And then you associate this guy that murdered somebody...

CLIENT: And you associated that to me.

THERAPIST: Well yeah because you were talking about him in a way that made it sound like you felt sympathetic to him and you, in a way, empathize with him and I think something about his troubled past and the way he was really trying make it, resonates with you. Your past is probably not troubled in the external ways that his is but you always struggled around (pause)...

CLIENT: Life, the universe and everything?

THERAPIST: Making use of your talent and your work. [34:32]

CLIENT: Your saying I should've been a stand-up comic?

THERAPIST: And...

CLIENT: That's one career that it's never too late.

THERAPIST: So...also just the fact that you were talking about something seriously...

CLIENT: That shocked you? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: What I said, makes me think there's probably something to it and then you associate with this other guy who got his thumbs cut off and...

CLIENT: Just one thumb.

THERAPIST: Sorry, his thumb cut off...yeah it makes me think that there's something pretty dark in all of that. You're right, I don't think you're going to go out and kill somebody and I never did but you can get pretty angry and I think it can probably get pretty dark and I think it was stirred up by what I said about how it sounded to me like you were talking about work. [36:07]

CLIENT: Back to my original point about this...how am I to work on it though? I can't even notice it because it's not happening anymore.

THERAPIST: But it is in these sort of attenuated ways otherwise I wouldn't be able to notice it either. (pause)

CLIENT: Attenuated?

THERAPIST: Yeah...you're not talking about feeling yourself like you felt like throwing something out the window or you felt running over in your car, you're talking about people who have done things like that or have been in situations like that and feeling connected to them, that's a sort of attenuated way, like your down from the ceiling but not having in the first person but I think it relates to you.

CLIENT: I think I'm more sympathetic towards mental illness now, you know, and I never was before and I recognize that in most people, that they are unsympathetic towards mental illness, not cancer or some other physical ailment that people are sympathetic towards.

THERAPIST: Yeah, sure.

CLIENT: (pause) It probably comes out of that... [37:52] To some degree, I see it when I'm dealing with these people who claim to have PTSD and people I deal with in housing court or bipolar or what have you (pause). Manic depressive and bipolar are the same thing?

THERAPIST: Yeah, manic depressive is an old name for bipolar disorder.

CLIENT: I got in an argument, not an argument but a debate with Marcia over that. (pause) For the tool, two parts, mania and depression right?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So you can be bipolar and not manic, correct?

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: Go figure.

THERAPIST: Hmm?

CLIENT: I said go figure.

THERAPIST: You mean you can be bipolar and never had mania or do you mean you can be bipolar and be on the depressive side for some period of time? [39:16]

CLIENT: Well it seems to me there are people who aren't going through manic cycles or whatever, are still being diagnosed as bipolar.

THERAPIST: You had to have had some mania or mixed episodes at some point to get the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. If you've just been depressed you wouldn't qualify for the diagnosis. Being of mixed state or even having hypermanic or manic states but you have to have one of those.

CLIENT: What's a hypomanic?

THERAPIST: It's like mania, it's a little less intense than full on mania so it's like instead of sleeping two or three hours a night you're sleeping four or five, instead of overspending your bank account by (inaudible).

CLIENT: By one? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: A little amped up but not...(pause)

CLIENT: Why did they change it from a nervous breakdown to a severe manic, severe depressive episode or whatever, major depressive episode or whatever they call it?

THERAPIST: I don't know what the reasons are but I imagine...

CLIENT: Because it sounds a lot worse.

THERAPIST: I imagine a nervous breakdown is, it's not very specific, I mean what you call a nervous breakdown could refer to a number of things, it could refer to a psychotic break or a manic episode or the onset of major depression or like the effect of a traumatic event.

CLIENT: People understand it better when I say that as opposed to a major depressive episode. [41:18] If that's what it was.

THERAPIST: I think you're talking about this because...

CLIENT: I don't trust anybody's diagnosis.

THERAPIST: What I said about you with work and your anger made you feel mentally ill and so you're thinking about being a mentally ill person and all of that. That's not how I meant it or was thinking about it but I think that's sort of where it landed with you.

CLIENT: I was just talking about, you know, why I sympathize with these people.

THERAPIST: Right but I think that came to mind because you were feeling unsettled which sort of made you think "Oh I am ill, I'm like these people, we are a group." [42:31] Let's stop. I'll see you Tuesday.

CLIENT: Yes. What about the 5th?

THERAPIST: I think I'm off the 5th.

CLIENT: (inaudible)

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