TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I guess, I don't know, today I've been feeling extra, I guess stuck with my thoughts. I don't know... Like, like, you know, it's like Monday and I feel like I usually do well on Mondays because I have, you know, a to do list in that last. I don't know, something about being, yeah, busy. And, I don't know, today I was just like, you know, I was thinking about how I need to e-mail this person, do this, do that, but like, I don't know. I just forget or get really distracted, I don't know, or just kind of stuck, staring at my computer like, like, "Oh, what do I need to do?" [00:00:59]

And then... I don't know. And then I felt like I was just, just criticizing myself and then kind of like... I don't know, kind of like just like, "Ugh. I hate this. Am I criticizing myself as much as I'm tired?" So I just felt like extra stuck and like I was frustrated and, yeah. I don't know. (PAUSE) I think, yeah, and also this weekend, yeah, more the same, you know, feeling stuck, not knowing what to do or, you know, not wanting anything or, I don't know, just kind of, I don't know, waiting for the day to be over. [00:02:17]

I don't know. I think I like saw people or had like plans but like barely during the day and I felt like during the day I was just kind of, I don't know, reading. But I didn't want to do anything like do anything or...

THERAPIST: Couldn't figure out what you want?

CLIENT: Yeah. Right. I don't know. (PAUSE) And, yeah, and like last week like I felt like I saw a lot of my friends or coworkers outside of work and I don't know. [00:03:05]

Like I wasn't like alone everyday but for some reason like, I don't know, I guess being alone and, yeah and aimless kind of just like, just extra stuck or something.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: You felt that way sort of more so or more intensely than usual you mean?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm just a little frustrated with this because I feel like it's become more like, yeah like it's happened more often where it's like I really have no idea what to do. Like... Or like, usually I think (inaudible) I would go through the steps of, you know, like, "Oh, I should work out or I should, you know, do some homework." You know, usually I have my fall back things I should do. [00:04:11]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I should do but now I feel like it's becoming more of an, I don't know, like...

THERAPIST: Like you kind of draw more of a blank?

CLIENT: Right. Not so much a blank as it's just like, I don't want to watch TV. I don't like... I don't know. Kind of a weird I guess anxious state where like it's like I don't want to do anything but I don't want to do nothing. I don't know. And I just kind of sit and think like, "What should I do? What should I do?" And... I don't know. I usually do something like (inaudible at 00:04:55]or go for a walk but I don't know. The state I guess is more dreadful and it comes back like once I'm done with the walk (inaudible). [00:05:05]

THERAPIST: I see. It just puts it off for a while.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. I don't know. I guess it kind of like feeling... Or yeah, my thoughts just stopping or nothing inspirational or motivational coming to me. Like today, I don't know, I don't dread Mondays usually.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: It's just feel like it's just a busy day.

THERAPIST: Yeah because like Mondays are usually a little bit better.

CLIENT: Right. But, yeah, today I just kind of felt, I guess, frustrated with myself but then, yeah, I was just criticizing myself and then... But then it's like, "What do I do?" (LAUGHTER) "What do I think?" I don't know. [00:06:01]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: There's a feeling of kind of being at a loss?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Both at home and like today at work?

CLIENT: Yeah or just, yeah, both. Not, yeah, not knowing what to do, yeah.

(PAUSE) [00:07:00]

CLIENT: I think... It goes back to like I don't... I don't have much interest in other things or, I don't know, I don't have hobbies or I don't know. Maybe it's just being harder to be by myself or... Like even at work like going through my to do list or things I need to do or... I guess it's not being distracted by people or, you know, other things that I usually do and it kind of like, yeah. I guess it's kind of a, yeah. I just... Maybe I just don't want to be there. In my head I just want to be doing things, I guess. [00:08:09]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah it sounds that way. That... I guess one of the things that's kind of worse it being in your head but you get stuck there in a way that's hard that's kind of hard to get moving (inaudible).

CLIENT: Right. Because I'll think... (PAUSE) You know, I'll think like, "Oh, I need to do this and I need to do that," and then, and but then like, I don't know, I just, I get like tired or anxious and like... [00:08:59]

Say just like I need to write an e-mail and just, "Ugh, I don't want to do this and just like write really quickly and then I'm like, "Well why can't I, you know, think through... Or why is this a bother?" Or, you know, I'm just like I guess criticizing everything I'm doing or why I feel like crappy or something and then, I don't know, it's like I get mad but I guess I'm criticizing myself or like... Or even then I'm like... I don't know. I guess putting so much emphasis that I have a problem I guess or I don't know (inaudible) And then I get kind of stuck because then I'm like, "I don't... Like what do I do? I'm sitting here criticizing myself but for some reason I don't want to do anything but, yeah." [00:10:11]

THERAPIST: Well I think you're kind of stuck every which way. I mean, it feels bad not to be doing anything but nothing sort of (inaudible) appealing to do or if it's something that you have to do that feels pretty crummy too and you feel like you're kind of rushing through it or...

CLIENT: Right. And like I guess I don't like when I like rush through things I don't... Today I didn't remember that I like I requested, you know, samples for today and then this morning I wrote the same e-mail, like, it was like, "Oh, are we getting samples tomorrow?" or... I don't know. And she was like, "Well I have some for today," which is fine but I can't believe I didn't remember. [00:11:05]

THERAPIST: Right. So it's not that it was practically a big deal. It was just frustrating.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Upsetting.

CLIENT: Right. And I don't, yeah. And I think I have a very good memory and, I don't know, I guess just rushing through and the state of just done with or feeling (inaudible) sort of drained. I don't remember looking at books and the work I'm doing is not my best or I don't know. And I don't know if I'm just being a weird like perfectionist like I normally should work at my highest energy levels or when I'm feeling my best and I'm...

THERAPIST: It sounds like something's going on.

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) I don't know. (PAUSE) I don't know. [00:12:01]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: (inaudible) frustration (inaudible) it's pretty clear the lack of a sense of ease in doing your work sounds pretty clear.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess it's just so... When I'm in this state it's just so much of a difference from my norm or, yeah, because I'm just not as productive like I can't remember... I don't know. And it worries me because it's like... I don't know. I feel like I'm spending or this is happening more often and like I'm never going to get anything done or like have any, you know, like, "Oh, I need to figure out what to do with my life," and if I feel that way all the time then I'll never do anything about it. [00:13:11]

THERAPIST: I see. Like, you know, if you can't figure out what to do on a Saturday afternoon...

CLIENT: Right. I can't...

THERAPIST: ...with an unlimited number of choices how are you possible going to figure out...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: ...where you're going...

CLIENT: And like why can't I take that time that I have on Saturdays, you know, to do those things like look into... Like I don't do that because I'm in that weird state and I don't want to deal with (inaudible) but I don't know.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: You mean like at the time in theory you could be sitting down and thinking through career stuff.

CLIENT: Right. Like I have time to be doing things but I don't do them. I don't know. Because I'm in this weird state. I don't know. [00:14:01]

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: And like today I was like, "Maybe I need to plan every hour or something," like... I don't know. And maybe I'll do it or something. I don't know.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Well I guess you're kind of at your wits end for what to do about this.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: For one reason or another I'm totally unclear and it's, I get I'm having some effect on your work. You say it's not your best work. It doesn't sound like it's atrocious or disastrous but it's not your best and as much as that is like disturbing I think. [00:15:11]

CLIENT: Right. I guess... I don't know. And maybe I was more insightful or I don't know. Or writing an e-mail, I was, you know nice... Like I give (inaudible) I give a lot of data out. I used to write nice formal e-mails like, "Here's you data. Here's your statistics. Blah, blah, blah." And now I'm just like, "Here's your data." (LAUGHTER) I mean, which is fine but, I don't know.

(PAUSE) [00:16:00]

CLIENT: I guess I just... I guess (inaudible) whatever I'm talking to and, I don't know... Usually when I do those kind of e-mails where I'm just like, "Here is it," you know, you get more e-mails back about, "What the hell is going on (inaudible) I don't know. (SIGH)

THERAPIST: Wait. Did you mean more congenial or formal in the e-mails then people keep e-mailing you?

CLIENT: No, it's the opposite.

THERAPIST: Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: So it's actually not only sort of... Doesn't only come across good but it's also more efficient to do it the other way?

CLIENT: Right. I don't know. Just putting more thought into the work and...

(PAUSE) [00:17:00]

CLIENT: And also like when I do that I can remember it better like... I don't know. (PAUSE) I used to like... Mike (ph) used to work with me.

THERAPIST: He was the post doc (ph).

CLIENT: No he was another RA like me.

THERAPIST: Oh. Right.

CLIENT: And I like took over his job when he left for grad school. But I don't remember like he trained me in a few things and he also went to the same school. After a year I worked there he had worked there two years. And now I'm saying, "Oh, it's two years." (LAUGHTER) I'm working here it's hard for me to remember things because I guess I was, I don't know, bragging about something like... Or asking him about something that he didn't remember. [00:18:03]

He was like, "Oh, sorry. I just don't remember. You know? I don't remember things as well." And I don't know if that's just like happening to me. It's just like I've been here so long and I'm part of so many different things I can't remember it all but it just bothers me that I can't remember or don't have the patience like for it all.

(PAUSE) [00:19:00]

THERAPIST: Are you still having that thing where if I say something you kind of blank out?

CLIENT: Yeah, a little bit but like today it's better. (LAUGHTER) Yeah.

(PAUSE) [00:20:01]

THERAPIST: I think I may have one thought that maybe forgetting at work comes from, is having a lot more things that you're dealing with because you've been there longer (inaudible at 00:20:39).

CLIENT: Yeah. Right. Yeah and also taking over this, yeah, position for Mike. I mean, he left in June. But you're dealing with a lot more people so you can't, you know... And everyone is giving you samples to process and so... [00:29:57]

Yeah, I can't exactly remember, "Oh, did that person, you know, samples?" I just... The memory isn't there. I used to remember exactly when someone needed samples (inaudible) I don't know. But it's more... It's not just the memory. It's just like, I don't know, the, I guess the way, yeah, just being formal and professional instead of just being like, you know, "Throw it in the freezer," you know? I don't know. (LAUGHTER) Yeah.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: And... (PAUSE) What is it that bothers you about that difference? [00:21:57]

CLIENT: I guess it's, you know, like perception of how people see me. Like I want them to, you know, trust me with their samples and, I don't know. And also, I just, I don't know... I guess it's just going down to like trying to do the best I can at my job. I don't know. Not glide through. Yeah.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: What is it that's troubling you about gliding through? [00:22:59]

CLIENT: Well I want to do a good job. Like I... I don't know. I don't want to just, you know, half ass everything, you know, or... I just want to be good at my job. I want to be organized. I don't know. I guess it's a, yeah, and I want to be perceived that way. Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)quality of your work...

CLIENT: Yeah. And I...

THERAPIST: ...and... Sorry. Go on.

CLIENT: The thing about the memory is like if I can't... Like I used to be able to remember everything and kind of keep track in my head and I can't do that anymore and so like, I don't know, it's just a change in like habits. [00:24:07]

Like, you know, write more things down or plan more things out, you know, and hold the (inaudible) because I can remember everything. I don't know. Like maybe it's just... And I guess I feel lazy like writing all these things down or, yeah. Or if I... Yeah, just I need to change how I do things or, you know, yeah, like I said, like planning every hour. (LAUGHTER)

(PAUSE) [00:25:00]

THERAPIST: So like, I guess I sort of think of clamping down in one way or another.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's always my like go to through process like, "Oh, I need to schedule everything," you know? But then I hate it because I have to have everything just as it is so I can do it. Like, I don't know. Like I have to, you know, eat this certain food or work out this time so I have energy. Like... I hate not, having to be so rigid.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: Or like no inspiration, I guess.

THERAPIST: Or like spontaneity or...

CLIENT: Right. [00:25:59]

THERAPIST: ...freedom or flexibility.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: You're kind of all locked into all locked into all these like schedules and ways to be organized and...

CLIENT: Right.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: And either sort of being in that mode, I guess, or feeling kind of aimless and losing track of things are both bad options.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. For some reason the example of... Because I think this happened this weekend. Like, I don't know, it's weird but like I used to go in the grocery store and like, you know, I'd have like things I need but like to make a meal I would I guess like have motivation and inspiration to like make something and like, you know, get those ingredients. [00:27:09]

But now it's just like, "Uhh." (LAUGHTER) I don't know. Just like peanut butter and yogurt and just like simple shit and I don't like it's... And then went I get home I was like, "Oh, maybe I want to make this." Then I was like, "Oh God. Now I need to print off recipes and write shit down." And I don't know. That's like another like I guess similar example for like having to plan every detail in my life instead of (inaudible)

THERAPIST: Otherwise it's going to be yogurt and peanut butter (inaudible) (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Right. And yeah. I don't know. (PAUSE) I don't know. I guess it's kind of like I lost the... I don't know what the word is. The like wanting to do my best or like taking pleasure in when I do or something. [00:28:15]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean, there's certainly (inaudible) depression to lose pressure in things you used to enjoy. But this sounds like this is not just that symptom like the way one could like, you know, lose an appetite or sleep more or that kind of thing (inaudible) like...

(PAUSE) [00:29:01]

THERAPIST: It's enjoyment, it's motivation, it's, I guess a certain degree of engagement.

CLIENT: I think kind ties in, I don't know, for some reason and I don't know. I guess, you know, interest and knowing what I want when it comes to food or being excited about something and not I feel bothered that I have to make meals. Because I feel bothered that I have to make meals. I just want something quick. And bothered with e-mails and, yeah. I don't know. And it's not like I don't have the time. I don't know. So I don't know what it is.

(PAUSE) [00:30:00]

THERAPIST: Well sad.

CLIENT: I guess it's frustrating and... Because I was like, "Yeah, I want to do my best." And, I don't know, I used to, you know, cook more, you know, do more, you know.

THERAPIST: And (inaudible at 00:30:53) you used to feel relatively good.

CLIENT: Or yeah, took pride I guess. [00:30:59]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: I don't know. But then again, I just feel like this is, you know, ridiculous and, I don't know, something I didn't, you know, try to get over like cleaning things up and, I don't know, pushing myself.

THERAPIST: You mean in just sort of subtle way you're doing things now?

CLIENT: Not so but like try to, I guess, like, I don't know, dig deep and, yeah, plan everything out. I don't know. I guess put more effort in (inaudible) everything out and...

(PAUSE) [00:32:05]

THERAPIST: That would be one version of your go to response for this sort of thing?

CLIENT: Right. (PAUSE) So, yeah, so I'm not at a loss of what do to. I guess the problem is (LAUGHTER) when I have nothing to do or...

(PAUSE) [00:33:00]

THERAPIST: Hmm... Well one thought that occurs to me, I guess it's a question, but what with the med school thing which was in June and stuff falling apart with Paul (ph) which was in August...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean, those were two things you were trying pretty hard at, I think. [00:33:53]

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I was, with Paul it was more waiting it out. I guess a lot of invested in time and emotion. Yeah. Yeah. And MCAT stuff is, yeah. I put a lot of time studying and... Yeah.

THERAPIST: Do you think you gave up after those (inaudible) what you wanted?

CLIENT: I think definitely for med school. Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I sort of have this like image of you internally going like, "Okay. I'm done." [00:34:57]

CLIENT: Yeah. I think... I don't know. I guess I don't know because I was always very pessimistic about med school and... So yeah. I guess I definitely felt defeated and I do felt kind of dread when I think about, "What should I do know?" I should look into post grad, you know, like, or people ask like, you know (inaudible) "Oh, so do you have a plan?" It's just like, "I don't know." Yeah, I definitely think it was just...

(PAUSE) [00:36:00]

THERAPIST: Like it was what?

CLIENT: Yeah (inaudible) And I didn't talk to, you know, people about it and everyone says the same thing like, you know, "You let one person, I guess, you know, change your mind about med school. You know? Like who is he?" (PAUSE) But, I mean, it made me feel better but I mean, I'm not doing anything to say get back in the game. I don't know. [00:37:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah. I also want to be clear that I don't think this is the whole story (inaudible) Paul about what's causing you trouble now. It seems to me like it's a big part of the kind of proximate cause in a way.

CLIENT: Oh.

THERAPIST: But I think there's more to the story probably and I guess it seems to sort of fit together with what you're saying about well even if... In a way it's sort of good to hear people say, you know, "You're letting one person dictate this to you and have this much effect on you," and all that and at the same time it's sort of...

(PAUSE) [00:38:09]

THERAPIST: ...I guess just how it's been.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: Well like I guess now I'm kind of at a loss I guess of... Yeah. Because I guess med school was the plan and, I don't know, now it's kind of, "What can I do?" I feel like I'm limited to things I can do or I'm interested in. (PAUSE) And yeah. I don't know.

(PAUSE) [00:39:00]

THERAPIST: Well... Sorry. Go ahead.

CLIENT: No. I was just going to say I know it's not realistic thinking and like I do like think I should apply again but, I don't know, for some reason I can't get there or make a plan.

THERAPIST: Right. So... (PAUSE) I guess we're imagining it there's something about the feeling or defeat or hurt or upset.

CLIENT: I mean, I guess I was embarrassed when it happened. And, yeah, I think it's just I don't know what to do, I guess. [00:40:05]

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: I don't know if like if I was excited about it and... I don't know. I think as for the support I thought it would help with, I don't know, a long lasting like, you know way that I'm feeling and, yeah, kind of like, "Well, what do I do know?"

THERAPIST: You know, you thought that getting good news from that dean and applying would...

CLIENT: Or, yes.

THERAPIST: ...help you? [00:40:59]

CLIENT: (inaudible) moving towards a career and being back in school.

THERAPIST: Would give you sort of, have you feel better, would give you more sense of purpose?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Would make it easier to kind of plan (inaudible) all these other things we're talking about?

CLIENT: Right. And, yeah, I mean, I enjoy going to school and I like science a lot so I thought that, you know...

THERAPIST: Like you thought it was a good thing?

CLIENT: Right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Kind of would be a good career?

(PAUSE) [00:42:01]

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean... And then, yeah, I mean, I always (inaudible) grad school too but I actually (inaudible) good at grad school or... (PAUSE) I thought it would be just a lot more... I think it's a lot harder and more isolating to go to grad school. More in the lab. (PAUSE) I don't know.

(PAUSE) [00:43:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah it probably is. I mean, it probably depends on the lab but I talked to a lot of people in the labs at grad school.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Umm... (PAUSE) It sounds like your feeling is this guy told you you couldn't do it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: He sort of shut the door.

CLIENT: Right. [00:43:59]

THERAPIST: I mean, yeah, reality, blah, blah, blah but the feeling sounds like...

CLIENT: Well I guess the feeling was that I screwed up. Like I didn't get good grades in organic chemistry or whatever. And like... And I guess I had been dreading this because, you know, I know that. I didn't do...

THERAPIST: How bad were they?

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) I got Cs and Ds or Fs.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So A, B, C...

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) So, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I've been to like (inaudible) other students so (inaudible)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) [00:45:01]

CLIENT: I don't know. So... Yeah. (PAUSE) I forgot what I was saying but yeah. (PAUSE) I guess it was just kind of like, I guess, you know, confirmed like the worst fear that I could never get in because of those grades and... I don't know. And I had, you know, I guess I had a lot of regret that I let people talk me out of like when I first started at school, I mean I didn't know I'd want to be in science. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do but I let a lot of people talk me out of the idea of (inaudible) school because I was quiet or... Yeah.

THERAPIST: We need to stop for now. But we'll talk more tomorrow.

CLIENT: Okay. Thanks.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Of course. Yeah.

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