TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I guess this morning, I don't know, it's not that big of a deal, but, I was teaching someone how to do this experiment and it's an experiment that I have done like hundreds and hundreds of times. It's no big deal. But, for some reason, like, when I was teaching him, someone else walked by and kind of like, you know, he's someone who sits behind me, the other guy. And, you know, he's like "hi Molly" and I was like "hi". And, then, for some reason, I was like, I don't know, I was thinking like oh, you know, he's watching me teach this other person. And, it's not because of him, but like all of a sudden, I got really nervous and started shaking and like because I was holding a pipette in a tube. I was like...

THERAPIST: Oh, my goodness.

CLIENT: This has happened before, but I don't know what it is. It's not because I'm nervous or like, like, I was fine just teaching him until someone else came by. It was weird. I don't know. So, I just thought that was weird. I don't know what it is, but, so, yeah. And, then I mean I felt like well, I can't, I like I couldn't stop, but I finished it. It was fine, but then I forgot about it and I just kind of remembered. Like, that's weird.

THERAPIST: You mean you couldn't stop shaking, but you could finish teaching the person the experiment?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And then kind of settled down after that? [00:02:00]

CLIENT: Right. It was just, like, kind of like I'm holding like a long instrument and he like can kind of see that I was like shaking more and more. Well, I felt like embarrassed. Like, I was like, I don't know why. Like, I was fine in the beginning and then just trying to get to the end not and I don't know why. It doesn't matter. I don't know. I just thought it was weird. Like, I don't know. Like, I guess like when multiple eyes are on me. I don't even know what it is, so.

THERAPIST: Did it have something to do with the person who walked by being in a position to judge you? You know, I mean not necessarily literally, but at least as compared to the person you were teaching who didn't really know?

CLIENT: No. I think it was just me realizing, like, that I was being watched.

THERAPIST: I see. [00:03:00]

CLIENT: Because while I was teaching, I was just kind of thinking like, like, well how can I explain this best to him and, you know, just kind of going with the flow, but then, like, when he walked by, I was kind of like oh, I'm being watched. I don't know. And, then I started to like shake. So, I don't know.

THERAPIST: What else comes to mind?

CLIENT: I don't know. I was just thinking well, maybe it was dehydration? I don't know. I was with Vicki.

THERAPIST: Right. [00:04:00]

CLIENT: And, I went to her family's house in Maryland. It was nice. I had a good time.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: I guess, on late Saturday night, we just started to drive back to Delaware where Vicki goes to school. Like, a bad traffic day going to Maryland from Virginia.

THERAPIST: Sure. Yeah.

CLIENT: So, I don't know. I think just like, I don't know, being around her for a while and then on Saturday, I don't know, I just kind of got sick of her. I don't know. And, also, I hated like, I don't know, being dependent on her for like weird things. Like, because it's her family and I know she would have been really stressed at school. So, she was kind of like I just want to like chill and not do very much. Which was fine, but, like, I don't know, it was just kind of like I was going with the flow and I think I was just sick of kind of like depending on her for like what we're doing. [00:05:00]

Like, communicating to her, you know, to her family. Like, because they want, because her family is, you know, excited, that, you know, she's home and I'm there because they know me and they don't want to do things and I'm always like, yeah, I'll do things. I don't know because there's more, because Vicki's, I don't know, tired or like doesn't want to do these things and it's just like I don't know. Communicating to her family for her and it's just like, I guess it's just yeah. And, then on Sunday I spent like, I spent like half the day there and then took the bus back. I don't know. I don't know. I just kind of felt like yeah, I'm kind of sick of her or like, I don't know. I guess I just felt like dread or something. I don't know what it was. Then when I got to Philadelphia, I felt great. It felt great to be back. I don't know, so. [00:06:00]

THERAPIST: You felt great about being with her?

CLIENT: Yeah, or just like in general. Just kind of like something bad could have happened or, I don't know. I don't know. Just kind of like, like, I'm uneased I guess, like, not at ease. On edge. Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, you felt on edge when you were in Delaware with her? [00:07:00]

CLIENT: Right and then that, like, yeah because I was like that Saturday, like leaving her family's house and then driving back. I'm just kind of like. I don't know. Just kind of like, well, I don't know, just kind of unease kind of like. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I was dreading like, you know, the vacation ending. I don't know. It was just kind of weird. I don't know. I mean I was just kind of sick of her and didn't want to go back to her, her place. I mean I don't know. Kind of solely dependent on her for like what the hell are we doing thing. I don't know. So, yeah. [00:08:00]

THERAPIST: And, what bothered you about depending on her for what you were doing? I mean in a sort of general way, I guess I can imagine that like everything's got to kind of go through her because it's with her family or it's in an area where she knows what you could do.

CLIENT: Right. I don't know. I think it's because she wasn't really communicating with me very well. Like, I don't know. Like, her mom was bothering her, so she didn't want to do something with her. I don't know and I was just kind of like I don't know what's going on, but I was just like, you know, trying to be in a good mood and happy, you know, and compliant with everyone. I felt like I guess she wasn't really telling me what was going on. I don't know. She was a little, like, I guess she was bummed out because she had a lot of work to do like on Sunday and she was dreading having to do it and I was, I don't know. [00:09:00]

It was just kind of like she didn't communicate that very well. Like, because we were supposed to leave on Sunday, but then she quickly changed her mind that we should leave Saturday and I was like okay. I don't know. I think I was just kind of like I guess sick of not knowing what was going on or.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: Being like subject to her plans.

CLIENT: Right. Right. I guess, yeah. I just wish she would, you know, tell me upfront, like, I'm stressed about this. Like my mom's, you know, why don't we do this or something. She should have just like, she reacts and then I'm kind of like stuck in the middle. Like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what's going on. So, I don't know. [00:10:00]

I don't know. Like, and I don't think of it's like I'm upset because I was like, you know, going along with, you know, what's going on or doing things for her. Because, like, that's fine. I know she's in school and I know like -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, she's busy and that she has to like do work during the day and occupy herself with something else.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But, I don't know. It was just. Maybe I was upset that like, you know, she I guess didn't communicate these things to me so I could do them. Like, so I could give her what she needed well or something. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. [00:11:00]

THERAPIST: Like, she sort of made it difficult for you to kind of be helpful or go along with things in the right way because she kept you kind of in the dark?

CLIENT: Right. Because, like, I woke up and I was like okay, what, you know, what are we doing today and I don't know she was like, she was like I don't want to, I don't want to have to, you know, cater to you when I have all sorts of to do. And, I was like you don't have to cater to me. Like, you know, I don't, I didn't even know you have a lot of work to do. I was like, you know, what's your plan for the day? I guess. I don't know.

THERAPIST: You're like why don't you just get me breakfast and e-mail my stuff and arrange for things for me to do and then you can feel free to do your work. [00:12:00]

CLIENT: Right. I guess I was, I felt like, I guess I was really upset she used that word. Like, cater or handle me or something. I was like, you know, you invited me and I forced myself to come here. You know. You don't have to handle me. I'm, you know, fine.

THERAPIST: Does she make you feel like a burden?

CLIENT: Yeah, she did that day. I don't know. I don't know. I think, I think she tries to like think for me or like, you know, tries to, I don't know. Worry about what, you know, how, you know. I guess she doesn't want to bother me with her stress from work or something like that. So, I don't know, but I feel like she treats me, like, or weirdly. I don't know. [00:13:00]

So, I guess she didn't want to upset me. I don't know what it means when she upsets me because, like, just be honest with me or whatever. I don't know. But, yeah, I don't feel like a burden. Or, yeah, I do sometimes because she's in school. Yeah. [00:14:00]

I guess something that, when we were driving back, that we were, I was discussing like, you know, I said like I messed with this, you know, for years. Like, I don't need special treatment and I'd rather you to be honest with me and tell me, like, you know, you need a couple hours to yourself. I don't know. Kind of skate around it and like then she just gets stressed out herself because she's not doing her work or something and, I don't know. And then we were, yeah, we were just kind of discussing our, you know, our relationship because I don't know. It's, I don't know. I guess I mean especially that this is just a the normal friendship. We're not in a relationship and then, I don't know, we're discussing so much and I was like. I mean it was like, you know, being like too close to like a mess to like really see the, the big picture, I guess. [00:15:00]

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I don't know. And I was just like, you know, I'm kind of, it's just like I'm sick of you. So, I don't know. I just kind of wanted to get away from her I guess. I don't know. And then, yeah, and then I was like I don't know. Then I felt like oh, you know, should I push her away or I don't even know what to do. So. Or what all to do.

THERAPIST: Well, what was the mess? Or what is the mess? I don't know the tense of the mess. [00:16:00]

CLIENT: It's like we talked about. Well, yeah. I was talking about how it was really hurtful, you know, for, like, she feels like she has to handle me like, you know, or treat me in a different way and then she was, you know, brought up these instances of things I said. Like, when I was down. Like, I know I hate everyone or she brought up the, she was like, you know, you want me to depressed and I was like that's not what I said. Like, I want you, you know, to just understand what it's like to not wish that upon you or whatever. I don't know. So, we just kind of like started fighting about like how she doesn't understand me and but then like, I don't know. Then, she's like going with you know why, you know why are you my friend, you know, if I don't understand you and blah, blah, blah and I was just like ugh. So. I don't know. [00:17:00]

And, then, you know, I have to explain like, you know, you know, I rely on her, I guess and, you know, I enjoy spending time with her. I don't know. And, then, I don't know. We talked about some more things that had happened like when we were going out and I don't know. I think both of us were just really upset and like, you know, what are we really fighting, like, in the end it's like we don't even know what we're fighting over, but, you know, I just, I just feel really bad, I guess. I guess hurt. So. And I was just so messy. It's hard.

THERAPIST: What was? The way you felt so bad and hurt? [00:18:00]

CLIENT: That she thought the worst of me. Like, she thought I was malicious and that I dictate everyone and that I didn't want her to have depression. I don't know. Yeah. That she thought the worst of me. You know. Should I think of other things that we said?

THERAPIST: Huh? [00:19:00]

CLIENT: Actually, I think it was probably everything that she said. My main goal, the reason that I was like down in the first place is right before we left her dad asked me how my brother was doing and I was like, oh, I don't know. My usual response. He's going tumble wheat. I don't know. He's out in Miami, but our family hasn't heard from him in a while and then he was like how do you know he's not dead and I was like that's really, you know. I was like oh, you know; we see his cell phone bill or something. I don't know. That just made me upset. It was in the car ride up and it was just like what the fuck was that? I don't know. That's something I'm sure, like, my brother's not doing well or I don't know for some reason not contacting me or my mom, so. I think that just kind of got me upset. [00:20:00]

THERAPIST: When, dead, you're both sort of worried and upset about how your brother's probably doing as best as you can guess and about not having heard more from him.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And, his comment, like, felt pretty callous.

CLIENT: Right. I mean I don't think it was bad. I don't know. I don't know. I mean he doesn't know what's going on, so, I mean.

THERAPIST: Well, whether he could have read anything from how you answered his question about how upset you were about it or not I guess is one thing, but in another way, it doesn't matter what he said hurt you. It doesn't mean he meant to, I guess, but in a way, like you said, I'm not sure that matters.

CLIENT: I was just thinking, it just reminded me like, you know, because that, you know, it was in the back of my mind and then it's just I don't know. It's being a parent.

THERAPIST: Say what?

CLIENT: You know, it just like reminded me of it because like, you know. I guess, yeah, the, my brother's kind of like in the back of my mind and, you know, every once in a while like it pops up and it upsets me a bit. You know, so I think it just happened. It reminded me of it, so I was upset. [00:22:00]

THERAPIST: What does upset you about thinking about him? I mean was it more or less what I said or kind of different?

CLIENT: I don't know. I feel bad for him that, I don't know. That he's not like doing better or not in like a good position, I guess. Yeah. [00:23:00] I mean it's more like that he's not doing well than he hasn't called or like, you know, or he's being selfish, like, by having said that. I don't know.

THERAPIST: So, you think he's having a hard time?

CLIENT: Right, but. Yeah. Or, I think, like, I think like I and I don't want to stick around and I don't know. It's kind of, and because at times I think there was more structure and kind of like I was around like, really like, you know, type A personalities and they kind of, you know, discuss like, you know, we're going to grad school or med school just kind of like always in the like structured or future mode or and like all the components of it. [00:24:00]

Like, networking where I kind of, I feel like Brian was like in a, you know, a really liberal arts college and you know they're like, just like learn some, like, I don't know, the skills needed for, you know, outside of college. Like, especially, with the liberal arts education and I don't know. No one, you know, wants for their school to push you in to, you know, decide to do something.

THERAPIST: What did he study?

CLIENT: The, it's liberal arts.

THERAPIST: Like, oh, this is my major. It's like...

CLIENT: I guess they rebuild a...

THERAPIST: Where, where did he go?

CLIENT: St. Albans.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay, I've heard about that. Where they read like the classics and great poets and talk about it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And everything's by the authors and all that. Yeah. Did he go to the one in Miami? [00:25:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. So, yeah. I don't know. I just think about that, like, I wish I had learned those skills or, you know, started thinking forward I guess. I don't know. Yeah. [00:26:00]

I don't really know what to do about it and then I don't know and, you know, when I do think about just how the differences like in our schools or whatever. I don't know. For some reason, I always like blame my parents like they didn't. I mean they didn't say anything about, you know, school or what to do with our lives. All they cared about, or all my mom cared about, was sports. And, then with Stephen, I don't know what she cared about. I don't know. I always think of that. Like, they didn't motivate us or I guess teach us, you know, what to do after college. How to make a plan or whatever. So, that's fine. I mean whatever, more or less, who knows, but I don't know. For some reason, I just think that. [00:27:00]

THERAPIST: Like, in a way, at least, you kind of wish they had provided more like, some structure and encouragement? Like, help with making those kinds of decisions about what to do.

CLIENT: Right. I mean it's hard because I think like I don't want people asking me like what do you do, you know. I don't know. It's a hard question. It's hard to talk about, I guess. Especially when doing, you know, liberal arts or whatever that means. It's what are you going to do with that? That kind of discouragement or something. I don't know. [00:28:00]

THERAPIST: Do you think he's kind of lost?

CLIENT: Yeah. Sure. I mean, it's not, I'm, I don't know. I don't think he's that responsible and I've, I think he just gets caught up in his yeah, I guess daily life and kind of you this sort show and I went to the bar and just be like him just doing that and not really like and try to have fun with that and then not really thinking. It's more about his like what to do like what else or just getting caught up in that. I don't know. I don't know. [00:30:00]

I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure he's at a loss for like what he wants to do. I don't know. Yeah, so after he graduated, he moved back to Boise and worked at a restaurant that I used to work at in between summers in high school or college. And, he worked there for like six months when he moved up to Seattle for just the hell of it and I don't know. I guess he was teaching after school programs to kids, which I think he liked. Like, how to write. But, then I guess he couldn't afford living up and he had called. So, then he asked me to buy him a ticket to Kansas so he could pick wheat.

THERAPIST: Nice.

CLIENT: And, then I guess he quit that after a week or two because I don't know. He got mad at the whoever was in charge for, I don't know, turning on a wheat shredder while he was in the other side.

THERAPIST: Oh, my gosh.

CLIENT: And, then, I guess slowly he made his way back to Miami. I don't know. He probably doesn't know what he wants for sure and then, I'm sure just going home. You know. Yeah. I don't know. I'm sure it's anxiety about being able work this out. Like, going home always feels a little uneasy after I guess living, not living there for a while. And then I don't think he can leave Miami now for a year or so after his DUI or whatever. [00:32:30]

THERAPIST: What do you mean he can't leave?

CLIENT: I don't think he learned, I don't think he's allowed to like move to another state. I don't know. I'm not so sure.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: And, then he doesn't have a car or, you know, you can't drive, so, I don't know. He's supposed to stay there until he gets his license back or whatever.

THERAPIST: Okay. [00:34:00]

CLIENT: So, yeah. I guess, yeah. Back to Vicki.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I'm sure she's been, I asked her we're discussing like, you know, what does our friendship mean? You know, what's the problem here? And, she said I think it would be best if, you know, if we talk every two weeks or something and I was like I'm not going to have the, I don't know, a scheduled talk with you or whatever and she was like well, me and my friend, Kevin, talk every two weeks and it's good, you know. We catch up and blah, blah, blah. I was like I've never heard you mention Kevin and we've been best friends for seven years. I mean she's mentioned him as a friend from home from high school, but I was like yeah, I'm sure you guys were great friends.

THERAPIST: Right. How often do you guys talk now?

CLIENT: A couple times a week. Maybe three or four times. I don't know. It depends. Like, sometimes a couple days in a row and then I don't know.

THERAPIST: Right. Right.

CLIENT: It's random, but most of the time it's because it's like I call her and she's like well, I'm busy working and I'm like okay, good luck, bye. Like, you know, it's more like a quick little, I don't know. Did you, I don't know, did you get the e-mail I sent you about the stupid video? So, it's like I don't know. We keep it small and short, like not winded hour long conversations.

THERAPIST: Right. [00:36:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. So, anyway. So, I was pretty upset. I was like okay. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Is she somebody who when she says something like that she means it? I mean like some people if you are in a, like an argument or some kind of heated discussion, they might just throw something out there.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Like they're just saying it.

CLIENT: I think, you know, that she doesn't mean it because I think she gets that a lot. I don't know. Things like that or, I don't know, things that she knows will like upset me.

THERAPIST: Oh, I see. Yeah, I'm not saying it wouldn't, but I'm saying to hear.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Which I guess it was.

CLIENT: Well, right. I was, I don't know. Something about like times, schedule, like, like, you know, call your parents every two, you know, weeks or something. I was like crap. So, yeah. I don't know. So, yeah, and, then I feel like I just want to like spite her and not call her or whatever. You know. Yeah. I don't know. [00:38:00]

THERAPIST: Sounds like I see it was pretty difficult at a number of points through the weekend? I'm not sure like the time you were with her.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I think it was just that driving back. Kind of bad. I mean, wake up the next day, I don't know. Everything's better and I don't know. I, you know, I thought, you know, it's just we were tired and, you know, just been together all day and now we're stuck in the car and for me I felt, you know, I didn't feel like resentment or like hatred like the night before. It was just like what? You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It was fine. Yeah. Then we went, we went and bought our Christmas tree and I decorated it while she studied, so. [00:39:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah. A little more harmonious.

CLIENT: Right. But, you know, then when I'm back here and I don't know. Back, I guess to work and I don't know. I feel better.

THERAPIST: Better just in general? [00:40:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. Like, not down because of my brother or I guess not trying to analyze and think about Vicki's and mine's relationship. Back to life then, I guess.

THERAPIST: Yeah. How did we like factor talking about all that stuff?

CLIENT: I don't know. I'm kind of a little tired of talking about now, but it's fine. I don't feel like there's, I don't feel like I have much to say or not explaining everything well. It's fine. [00:41:00]

THERAPIST: Are you suggesting you're a bit self-critical about how you're talking about it? I'm teasing you a little bit.

CLIENT: Well, yeah. I don't know. I feel like there's a lot more details that I'm forgetting and as soon as I leave, I'll remember.

THERAPIST: I see. No, that's, that's kind of important that attempt to, attempt to happen where you'll remember the details harder to remember when you were here Wednesday, maybe other place too, after you leave?

CLIENT: Yeah. Or, I don't know, I'll put a, you know, better story together, I guess. Not like I'm lying or just, you know, want to see her more. Coherent, I guess. Yeah. [00:42:00]

THERAPIST: I imagine there's something about being here and sort of talking about this kind of stuff, but it's like you're nervous, which has something to do with why it's hard to remember or feel like you've been clearer. I'm not saying you're doing a bad job. It just, it sounds like that could be part of what happens.

CLIENT: I think it's more I'm not just good at expressing myself and then when I think about it in my head, there's, I don't know. I don't know. Like, just that I understand it better in my head or there's some like unspecific things, so it's clear to me and I understand. It's just harder for me to, you know, talk about it, I guess.

THERAPIST: I see. Like, it sort of makes more sense in your head or coheres better?

CLIENT: Right. But, I guess, I mean the details maybe I forget them because, I don't know, like I almost thought or something. Yeah. [00:44:00]

But, I do think that, I don't know, I'm getting better at remembering. I don't know. Like, yes, those are big things that Vicki and I said and so it just, I don't know talking anymore about it because I start to feel horrible.

THERAPIST: Sure. I don't know there are other things that happened like what her dad said. One of them is morning and.

CLIENT: I don't know. Today I was good. I mean, I mean once the experiment thing was over, or like after I was like shaking I was like, I just, yeah, holding the instrument and that's happened to me before. Like, I don't know. I think when my boss like purposely was like staring at me and he wanted to talk me when I was like doing something.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But, I guess I just couldn't fight off. It's like you're scaring me or something. You know. I don't know. And I've done it by myself too when I think about shaking. I don't know. Because it's fine with a pipette, I guess.

THERAPIST: Well we need to finish up for now.

CLIENT: Okay. Thanks.

THERAPIST: Sure.

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