TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:00:06). Hello.

CLIENT: Hi.

THERAPIST: Let me in order to check with you I think we canceled a couple of times on Thursdays. And I just wanted to I mean, I know stuff comes up and that's totally fine. But does it feel we're meeting too often if we meet [three days] (ph)?

CLIENT: Well, actually I think I don't know if there's a miscommunication. I canceled for next Tuesday. And I came Thursday but...

THERAPIST: Oh no.

CLIENT: So I don't know if I put if I accidentally put the wrong date but I thought I was canceling for next Tuesday.

THERAPIST: Well, I'm glad I asked for one thing. And I'm sorry if there's a miscommunication. I can check your e-mail. Maybe you put it right. I just completely misread it. That would not be the first time it's ever happened. [0:00:57]

CLIENT: I thought I was canceling for the 11th so I was just but maybe I put the 1st or something.

THERAPIST: Somebody is calling me so I'm just waiting for that.

CLIENT: All right.

THERAPIST: So I'll wait before I (inaudible at 0:01:14). (pause) There we go. All right. (pause) There we go. Shit. I'm so sorry. I just completely fucked up. I feel really bad. [0:02:06]

CLIENT: It's OK.

THERAPIST: How did I look at that and think you're canceling for Thursday? I don't know. Well, I don't know what else to say except I apologize which I've said it a bunch of times now so I'll stop saying it. So I guess right. So you're canceling for a week from tomorrow.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Has nothing to do with last Thursday. OK. And I guess I assume there's no relevance to the frequency question then.

CLIENT: No. I just assumed that I don't know because of Thanksgiving I don't know. Last week somehow it got transferred this week or to this past week.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I don't know.

THERAPIST: Well yea. I don't know (inaudible at 0:03:04).

CLIENT: I don't know. Not much is really going on. I feel like it's kind of the same problems with like I don't know it's not really knowing what to do with myself and kind of just straining myself to what should I do? What should I do? I don't know. So yea. I mean, yea. I think yea. I just kind of feel like I'm kind of just stuck and I don't know. I feel like I'm just kind of repeating myself. But and I don't know. (pause) [0:04:02] I really don't know like not anything really new to say or I don't know. Yea. (pause)

THERAPIST: Just your thoughts kind of blank or are you just thinking thoughts you've thought and said before? Or...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: ...are you getting frustrated? Or...

CLIENT: Well, yea. I'm just kind of like I guess I'm searching for things to say. Or like I how I felt blah a couple of days and I can't yea. I just kind of feel like there's...

THERAPIST: Just kind of blocked?

CLIENT: No. I'm just like got a like I'm having the same kind of problems of yea, like not knowing what to do or with myself. [0:05:05] Or even what to think sometimes. I don't know. I kind of feel like I'm kind of stuck in the same thoughts. And I just kind of get stressed out but nothing new comes up, I guess. Or...

THERAPIST: Meaning here. Or meaning in general or both?

CLIENT: Well, more like I'm just meaning in general like of things. What should I do if I have time with myself? Just kind of like those kinds of things. Nothing and I think it's just kind of in general. Feeling stuck in my head and the same thoughts of like I don't know just I guess wanting something different, I guess, a change or something with myself. [0:06:01]

But yea, I don't know. Yea, I'm just yea, I feel like I don't know. Well, I wish like yea, I want to take more action. I feel like I'm just kind of riding I don't know riding my depression out. I don't know what that means. But like in terms of doing things for my future or actually thinking about taking the MCAT or even looking at other programs just kind of helps waiting it out. And kind of keep doing what I'm doing. I don't know. But I wish I don't know that I I don't know. [0:07:00] I guess just to have the motivation or being inspired, I guess. (pause)

And I feel like it's kind of the idea of like at work being bored or just doing the I don't know the same things in work over and over again. Or I don't know. (pause) [0:08:00] I don't know yet what I want or what I'm I guess I just want to be excited about something or interested in something instead of just the same old stuff. But I don't know. (pause)

THERAPIST: And you're feeling kind of bored with some of the stuff at work?

CLIENT: Right. [0:08:56] Just kind of like I guess what I do to kill time. Or just kind of I don't know doing kind of just sitting down doing monotonous things, I guess. I don't know. (pause) I don't know. (pause) Yea, I just kind of I guess I don't know what to do. And I'm worried that I guess nothing like (inaudible at 0:10:05) kind of change. I wouldn't expect doing the same thing. And I don't know. Just online reading things I don't know just that over and over again thing. Nothing really inspiring, I guess. (pause) [0:11:00]

I guess there's I don't know. For some reason I feel like it's kind of stupid to keep talking about it because it's like me being I don't know a bit lazy or just kind of I don't know. I don't even know. I guess just kind of like being lazy and not really wanting to put much effort into things or like into I don't know. I just feel I'm just kind of feel like I'm whining. But...

THERAPIST: I see. (pause) [0:12:00] Well, I guess as long as you feel like you're whining for going over it. I know that it's not easy to be living with it. (pause)

CLIENT: Yea, I guess. (pause) But again, I just feel kind of like it's my fault. Like I'm just kind of being lazy and not having new things to do because I'm not, I guess, (inaudible at 0:12:58) trying new things. (pause)

THERAPIST: So it feels bad to not know what to do. And to be talking about it and it also feels, I guess, pretty completely like your fault? [0:14:00]

CLIENT: Right. I mean, I don't know. I guess, yea. I mean...

THERAPIST: Like there's a little like a character flaw with you.

CLIENT: Right or yea, I don't know. I guess when it comes to talking I guess just not knowing what to say to people. Yea, kind of just be like it's just kind of who I am, I guess. And I don't know.

THERAPIST: It's that you already have a hard time what to say to people?

CLIENT: Right. And I don't know. [0:15:02] I think I used I mean, I definitely used to be more interested in I don't know. I just yea. In doing things or new things or more like, I guess, fulfilled. But I don't yea. I guess I don't feel that way anymore. And I don't know why.

THERAPIST: What's making you sad?

CLIENT: I mean, a little bit.

THERAPIST: I'm sorry. What's making you sad?

CLIENT: Oh, what's making me sad? (pause) I don't know. (pause) I mean, I'm just kind of just tired of not knowing what to do. [0:16:00] And kind of I don't know worrying myself to death and what's wrong with me.

THERAPIST: What do you imagine? I mean, trying to figure out what's wrong with you?

CLIENT: I don't know. For some reason, I always think of like like I'm just I don't know wasn't like I'm not smart enough or I didn't get a good enough education or something. I don't know. (inaudible at 0:16:39). (pause) [0:17:00]

THERAPIST: In what way do you imagine it? Or you have to think about that?

CLIENT: I don't know. I guess I thought maybe I used to be more confident in myself so I didn't think about these things. But then like I went to school when I went to college I don't know. I kind of just maybe it was kind of like a I don't know reality check or just kind of like so much more out there than what I know then, I guess. Yea, I don't know. [0:18:00] (pause)

I mean, I just feel, I guess, inferior or I don't know maybe I want so much more than, I guess, my knowledge or what, I think, I studied. Or I don't know. And I wish I can speak a foreign language or just something. I always want more or wish that I did different things. (pause)

THERAPIST: Are there other things you think of besides the foreign language?

CLIENT: Well, yea. I wish I took more, I guess yea. Or I wish I had like just everything. More like literature classes or political classes or (inaudible at 0:19:04) wish I knew more.

THERAPIST: Like with regard to what you took, that you sort of feel like really not enough or you didn't have enough?

CLIENT: I mean, I'm happy with what I majored in and I really liked it. But I just wish I knew more and I don't know. (pause)

THERAPIST: And how does it reflect on you that you don't know more? Or that you study more different stuff and things? [0:20:04]

CLIENT: I don't know. (pause) I don't know. I mean, it's just like regrets that I had or like that I didn't study more. I don't know. I mean I don't know how it reflects.

THERAPIST: And then (inaudible at 0:20:52) in general the way you feel pretty inferior with result of it.

CLIENT: Right. Yea, and a few things in a few areas. But think I just I don't know. I wish I just had more interests and I don't know. Just overall like smart. Or I don't know what it is.

THERAPIST: [To have something again] (ph). (pause) [0:22:00]

CLIENT: I don't know. Maybe I don't know. That I wanted to I don't know. Or I want to study more or I wish I was better at more things because I don't know maybe create, I guess, more yea, just more interests and more or maybe I could find something that I liked better than what I'm doing now. Or what is happening now. So (pause)

THERAPIST: Maybe you'd be able deal with stuff better then? Or does that mean (ph) decisions that would have worked out better?

CLIENT: I think yea. Or just like a better ass (ph) future or like more exciting things than just I don't know being in a lab. [0:23:01] And I don't know. I think it's just more I wish I would push myself to do these things. So I got to be just better prepared or...

THERAPIST: Is that what happened that you sort of thought to do them but didn't push yourself to do them? (pause)

CLIENT: I guess. I don't know. I mean, I probably thought about it. But I mean I took different classes. I took science and I don't know. [0:24:00] It's kind of more I was balancing the amount of work, I think, in each class. That was, I guess, my concern when I was choosing them. I couldn't take on a literature class. They're going to read two books a week. You can't do that with science and softball. But that was my decision (inaudible at 0:24:28). But I mean, like but even now like why don't I do those things now? Like I don't need to be in college to study them (inaudible at 0:24:43). (pause)

I don't know. I don't know if it's I mean, I'm sure it's me trying to I don't know be some weird ideal that I have in my head and like what I think would contribute to who I want to be or what I have in my head. (pause)

THERAPIST: Well, what else do you know about the weird ideal that you aligned (ph) up to?

CLIENT: I mean, it's just like the I don't know. It's not the thing I really like gotten the details about. [0:26:02] It's just something that I had more like talents or interests and I don't know smarter, more athletic. I don't know. Just everything more. (pause) [0:27:00]

THERAPIST: So I guess it sounds like the ideal of the image that you have is sort of turns the problem you have deciding what to do or being kind of motivated and engaged by things (inaudible at 0:27:24). When you're not sort of having a fantasy and wish you were somebody who was doing a little more. Or just feeling better about what she was doing. But I guess my impression that you wished you have a bunch of interests and more engaged with a variety of things.

CLIENT: Yea. [0:28:00] I mean, I think it's more like I think about it in like of terms of like I've lost my opportunity to be that way. Or just having regrets or...

THERAPIST: You lost your opportunity to kind of branch out and be...

CLIENT: Right. It's a I don't know. To do things necessary to I don't know form the skills that I needed or wanted. (pause)

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you blew it?

CLIENT: Yea, I guess. [0:29:01] (pause for one minute)

THERAPIST: So even if everything you said was true. And I'm I will be frank and I'm skeptical about some of it. But even if you were a whiner and lazy and you blew your chances to I don't know I guess, at a good education or like take advantage of the opportunities you had in a way and learned the skills that you needed to. And I mean, even if all that let's say for a moment that all that is exactly true. [0:30:58] It all still sounds you still haven't seemed quite focused on like fairly critical like the kind of (inaudible at 0:31:11) kind of (inaudible at 0:31:16) critical things about yourself. (pause) I mean, you seem sort of quite drawn to talk about these (inaudible at 0:31:41) character or your decisions that in a pretty critical in a very critical way. [0:32:02] (pause)

CLIENT: So I don't really understand, I guess. Are you saying that like because I'm so critical even though I think I blew it? Or...

THERAPIST: No. I'm saying the vein in which you're talking about yourself seems really terribly critical. Even if which I don't necessarily agree with or believe but I'm just going with what you've said. You know all those things are true. For example, you're not saying, "Yea, I made bad decisions about the classes that I took. And I wish I could have sat back and thought about it more or followed so and so's example or dropped softball so I had more time." [0:33:17] Or and there's no, "Well, I didn't want to do those things that I was doing." Or, "Softball is important," or, "I like being part of the team." Or, "I felt all this pressure from my mom or my coach or whomever else." Like it's a very sort of constricted story that you're telling about it and one that's like very focused on pretty much the "I am a loser" aspect of it, I think.

CLIENT: Well, I guess in the end I'm the one who made every decision. I mean, I decided to go back to softball. [0:34:00] I just I had those classes. I mean, I'm not just like saying I'm limited in like what influenced me because I don't know. But yea, I think in the end.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:34:22) I know you're right. Like nobody signed you up for the softball team or registered you for classes you over your protest or anything like that. You're right. I don't have anything wrong with that. As I think about it, I think you're berating yourself, though. I mean, I think the what you're actually doing as you are talking about what happened is berating yourself over it. And when you say, "I didn't take different classes or a wider variety of subjects," or something like that. [0:35:05] I don't think sort of the point there is to wonder about it to like what made you do it that way or to feel sad about not taking other classes. Or to examine what you could do about it now. I think sort of the activity you're like the sort of point in your talking about it I'm pretty sure it's to berate yourself over it.

CLIENT: I mean, yea. A little. I mean...

THERAPIST: I'm sorry. I'm interrupting you again. But...

CLIENT: No, that's OK.

THERAPIST: I don't think this is something you're consciously intending to do. [0:36:00] Like I don't think, "No, I'm going to see Ethan today. Sit down and just berate myself." But I think that seems to be what's emerging as you talk.

CLIENT: I mean, I feel I just have a lot of as a said regrets. And yea. And like I feel like with the another I don't know I guess it's not easy way, though. And like I tried to make it so school wasn't like so overwhelming.

THERAPIST: Sorry. Are you sort of quite saying as implicitly but the impression I gather is you're very angry with yourself for these decisions that you've made.

CLIENT: I guess I'm angry that I was intimidated. Or allowed other people to (inaudible at 0:37:06) me in what I should take or what classes I should take. Or even like I was neuroscience but I didn't like I don't know I mean, really think what I should do with this. Or I don't know. I should talk to more people. Talk to more professors. I was just intimidated.

THERAPIST: That's what you're...

CLIENT: That's what I'm angry about.

THERAPIST: Or angry at yourself for...

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: ...like being intimidated by the prospect of talking to professors or other students? Or kind of taking the risk to branch out?

CLIENT: Right. Or just kind of I don't know. It's weird like it's like I didn't want focus on that when it was there. [0:38:04] Kind of the only way I can think of it is like I don't know. For some reason I don't know you don't want to pay like yourself on the bill or something. You just keep ignoring it. Something like that. Like that's how I think I felt about doing things to kind of initiate to find out what I wanted to do. And talk to people who could help me or that kind of yea. I think that way I've kind of just kind of like let people direct me and then again just like I don't know.

THERAPIST: I see. I think I'm getting a clear picture. Like...

CLIENT: I mean, I just kind of like...

THERAPIST: Yea, this kind of like passive, avoidant...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: ...way of dealing with it. [0:39:00] Like there were all these opportunities of these things that you could have done the decisions that you could have made.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And you just kind of...

CLIENT: Right. Kind of I don't know like yea, I guess slightly ignore them or just like didn't even want to like deal with it. I don't know. Like avoiding looking in the mirrors and like that kind of doing that to those opportunities. And then I guess yea, that's not what I'm angry at today. I was intimidated or I don't know. I have been (inaudible at 0:39:42).

THERAPIST: It's like if you could you go back, you'd say like, "OK, I should go talk to this professor. All right. That's what's been freaking me out. But I should either go talk to somebody about it or figure out how I can deal with it or just go do it or something. But burying my head in the sand and always thinking about how much I want to talk to him. Just not doing it is not the way to go."

CLIENT: Right. (pause)

THERAPIST: And you're really angry and critical of yourself for doing it that way.

CLIENT: Yea. And I mean and yea. And I don't even know why that I was so I don't know against I don't know what the word turning away from like those opportunities and I don't know why. So like you get e-mails about stuff and I'm just like (inaudible at 0:40:57). (pause)

THERAPIST: What makes it so bad to have done that? I mean, I'm not arguing and saying well, that's a great thing you missed these opportunities. But... (pause)

CLIENT: I don't know. I think I I don't know missed opportunities to find out what I really want in work. And here it's like work and neuroscience and not work in endocrinology or something like that. Like kind of I don't know make the best of what my education has been or just and then also just like know more about the process applying to grad school or applying to med school. [0:42:06] But I don't know. Because I feel like I was yea, I had no idea about it. And so for some reason I just started to decided to plan and most of my information came from Vicki (ph) because she would went to these things. And I don't know. Maybe yea, just hear about jobs or opportunities in recent e-mails and stuff like that. I don't know. Or (pause) [0:43:00]

THERAPIST: So...

CLIENT: And the only way I could describe in I think it's like a kind of a weird characteristic of mine is like I don't know so you get like coupons but you don't use them. Or I don't know. Or even somehow search for a way to pay less. I wouldn't do that. I would just kind of like whatever.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Just want to get it over with.

THERAPIST: Right. And like to be able to it and now it's really costing you.

CLIENT: Right. And I don't know what that is or...

THERAPIST: We should stop for now. But we'll talk more tomorrow. And I got about next Tuesday. [0:44:00] Again, I'm sorry about that.

CLIENT: And then is it like 9:15 or 9:30 on Thursday because I don't remember.

THERAPIST: Oh, 9:15.

CLIENT: 9:15. OK. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure.

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