TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Is there any other administrative stuff?

CLIENT: I don't think so. No. But, you know. Not much has gone on. I don't know. I had a presentation this morning at work and I had my final exam tonight for my class. So I've been just studying and, yeah. I'm a little tired. That's about it. Saturday was a busy day. I just... I got up early and I was studying and then I went out for a run and then Vicki came into the city and it was fine. I mean, we had brunch and then we went shopping, which was really crowded, I guess. [00:00:59]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I bet.

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) And then I went to our or to my lab party, I guess the Christmas party at my boss's house and it was very nice. There were a lot of kids there. So it was fun. Just kind of... But anyway, I was on a field day. So I woke up on Sunday and my shins really hurt because I was wearing boots all day. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I don't know. Yesterday I just didn't do very much. I felt very like...

THERAPIST: For the sake of your shins?

CLIENT: Yeah. Also it was like crappy out...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...and I was just studying and kind of just moving between my desk and the kitchen, I guess.

THERAPIST: So is Vicki... What happened to her? She...

CLIENT: She just went back. So, you know, we had brunch and then we went shopping and then...

THERAPIST: Oh. So she was like in for the day.

CLIENT: Right and then she left around five that night. Yeah, it was good. [00:02:05]

THERAPIST: And yesterday you were like in bed and also studying.

CLIENT: Right. And yeah. So I have to just get a little, I don't know... If I want to like work out but my shins couldn't work couldn't handle it. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Is it shins splints?

CLIENT: No, I think it's just like... You know, like when you're wearing boots and they kind of like keep your foot flexed for a while, just make your muscles sore.

THERAPIST: Like this?

CLIENT: Like, like flexed.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: Like that.

THERAPIST: Here (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, okay, yeah.

CLIENT: I don't know. I've gotten it before from wearing boots and walking a lot because I did walk a ton and I walked home from the party like two miles. But...

THERAPIST: Oh wow.

CLIENT: But anyway, so I just felt kind of and again, I got up early because I had to finish my presentation. Because I needed to do a few things. [00:03:03]

Whatever. In general, I just kind of want to get this exam over with and feel (inaudible at 00:03:21) yeah.

THERAPIST: Well (PAUSE) I guess I would imagine because the presentation and the exam are on the same day, it would be good to have it done with. I mean, you say you want to get today over with for some reason.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. Well, one, I want to be done with the class and then...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But the presentation went well. I wasn't very nervous about it though.

THERAPIST: Oh. That's good.

CLIENT: There's always like a little, I don't know, I guess kind of like anxiety presenting. But it was fun. It was good. I got good feedback and got some results as someone else, which is good. [00:04:07]

(LAUGHTER) But this exam... Yeah, I just kind of want to be done with the class. I don't know if I told you about it (inaudible).

THERAPIST: We talked about it, yeah.

CLIENT: Class is extremely disorganized. Like most of the classes I've taken at the Extension School are like very good, like better than other classes.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: In terms of like number of TAs, organization, you know, the each class has, you know, a website and like everything's recorded, you know, like, just the little...

THERAPIST: Right. Just like on top of it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And this class is not like that which is not like. But, I don't know. She's not a very good, like lecturer. She's kind of just like mean. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) [00:04:57]

CLIENT: Whatever. But like yeah. Like I feel like the class is like a little bit older and she's like, she's like sitting there, you know, yelling at us like, I don't know, like, "This will be on the exam!" Like why can't you just say it normal? (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) Right.

CLIENT: Or like, I don't know. She's just... Maybe she's just disorganized. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, like most people are probably taking a pre-med class that they're, at the Harvard Extension School just because they're going to blow it off. Like...

CLIENT: Right, right. Yeah, I agree and I guess, I don't know, there was a discussion board like and I think a lot of students are criticizing her exams because there's like spelling errors and, I don't know, some of the questions are like not worded well so, I don't know. I haven't really been following but I guess there was a lot of like people criticizing her so she felt like, I don't know, really (inaudible) and angry at the lecture the following day. [00:06:09]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But, yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah. (PAUSE) Not much is going on. Just kind of waiting to go (inaudible).

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: What else comes to mind? [00:06:55]

CLIENT: Oh, I was just thinking I haven't seen my roommate since last Tuesday. She went to California. She was back today, so, nice to see her. It's her birthday on Wednesday. So (inaudible at 00:07:15) and my friend Mike from work he's going to be here tomorrow (inaudible).

(PAUSE) [00:07:45]

I guess, yesterday was kind of (inaudible). I mean, it's going to be nice to be done with this class but then I feel like I'm just going to like, I don't know, slip into this laziness. Not that I don't deserve a break or like... I'm worried that I'm just going to like go back to Boise and do nothing and I don't know. I don't know, slip in... Yeah, I don't know, just do nothing and I kind of feel like this lethargicness (ph). I was trying to tell myself that I need to do work while I'm home keep busy I guess (inaudible at 00:08:37).

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Are there are things you want yourself to be doing there? [00:08:51]

CLIENT: I think I want to, I don't know, look into school or... (LAUGHTER) I don't know. Think more about what I should do in terms of the next step in my, I guess career or education. But I have a feeling it's not going to happen or, yeah. We'll see. (PAUSE) Like I feel like I go through kind of though like (inaudible) having to be busy at work. Like I'll do nothing for a while or be like, I don't know, lazy or putting things off. [00:09:59]

Not that I... I don't really procrastinate much but like... And then I'll just, I'll, I guess like ramp up and do a ton of studying or, I don't know. I kind of just go through these big doing absolutely nothing and then doing a lot and then I feel like I should, I don't know, pace it out better and do more. Yeah. (PAUSE) So, yeah, I think I just want to feel as productive while I'm home and not doing nothing or like... Yeah. [00:11:17]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: (inaudible) it sounds like the familiar worry that you won't do anything or you'll be kind of paralyzed.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible). [00:11:57]

CLIENT: Right. I don't know. I guess I just... I don't know. It's hard for me to feel (inaudible at 00:12:11) like to do anything or just to be okay with it I guess or, yeah.

THERAPIST: So (inaudible) actually okay with not doing anything when you're back there or you really feel like it's important that you do do something. I get that, at another level, you're just going to be mad at yourself if you don't do anything. But I'm not sure if you wholeheartedly agree that you should be mad at yourself if you don't do anything or whether that's what's going to happen even if there's another part of you that thinks that's okay and that you should just take a break. Do you know what I mean? [00:12:59]

CLIENT: Yeah. I think like how it feels is like you know like, like an example would be like you ate chocolate cake in the morning and so you're just like, "Oh my day's ruined," and you're just like, "I'm just going to eat whatever." That's the mindset I'm in when I'm home. Like, I'm just like, "Well, like, it's not like it's okay to relax for a little bit." I'm just kind of like, "I'm just going to (inaudible) just kind of like throw my hands up. I get in that mindset (inaudible) and then I just feel like yeah, yeah kind of ramp myself back up to do things or...

THERAPIST: I see. I'm following your chocolate cake example would be, "Oh, I eat chocolate cake at nine o'clock. I blew it. The day's gone. I should just let myself go."

CLIENT: Right. [00:14:00]

THERAPIST: And there's sort of a little bit of relief and a fair amount of like self loathing in there.

CLIENT: Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's very like, I don't know, back and forth I guess with like, "Whatever. It's okay that you're doing nothing." I'm kind of like antsy later about I need to do something. I don't know. Not good with the feeling of, yeah, like the day is lost or whatever.

THERAPIST: I see. Yeah, it sounds like it has some of that agitated quality that, you know, sometimes the weekends can have that.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) "I don't know what to do. Maybe it's okay. No. But I can't figure out what to do. I should like..." that sort of thing a little? [00:15:01]

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. I just definitely feel like at the end of the day like, I don't know, it's weird mindset of just kind of like sleeping through the day, or not actually sleeping but kind of doing like, just like waiting for the next day to get over with, I don't know, instead of enjoying myself. I don't know. I kind of just... I mean, just being okay with doing very little or something or... (PAUSE) I don't know if it's... Yeah, like I don't think I have any expectations like, like I'm going to do all these things but I think the general feeling is when I go home it's just like that feeling like, yeah, I don't do anything or like I'm not enjoying myself and I just want to get back to here where I can do things or work. [00:16:17]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Is it, is it a bit as though some part of you were kind of dead set against your happiness? [00:17:09]

CLIENT: That's... Sorry. I don't understand.

THERAPIST: Like (inaudible) as though there were some part of you that were like dead set against your feeling happy in that... Only I think I sort of remember this from you last time like looking forward to getting home and having a break from being here but then when you were there like I guess there wasn't so much to do and it got kind of frustrating and so it was good to get back. [00:18:03]

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But then there was the stuff that goes along with being back.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: This sort of like... I'm not saying you won't enjoy being home at all and I'm not saying you don't enjoy (inaudible) but it, it... I don't know. It does seem there's a quality in the way you talk about things as though it's hard to feel at ease and kind of at ease or satisfied or contented with sort of how things are or what's going on whether (inaudible) here or there or this or that. [00:19:05]

CLIENT: I think I just want to feel productive and busy and, I don't know. I feel like anxious that... I don't know. I guess I'm like not using the time right or I don't know.

THERAPIST: I see. You don't have much patience with being able to take it easy...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: ...and feel like you should always being doing something constructive or productive or getting something done.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Whether it's exercising or work or med school or future stuff.

CLIENT: Right. And yeah, I just am worried that I'll get in like, yeah, mindset where I don't do very much and yeah, I feel like I'm just waiting out the days or whatever. [00:20:01]

But, yeah, I don't know. Like with home I don't know how to like, I guess, enjoy myself. I think I sort of... I mean, I am excited to go home but I think it's because this time people are going to be there and I guess it's more distractions but, yeah. Yeah. I guess I just enjoy feeling productive instead enjoying whatever something else or what I'm doing, not doing anything or simple things.

THERAPIST: I see.

(PAUSE) [00:20:55]

THERAPIST: And do you think that's kind of generally true for you or do you think that's tied now to this, you know, big issue of figuring out what you want to do like career wise?

CLIENT: I think it's a general thing. I think like, like, like everyday I kind of like check in with like, "Oh, what have I done today?" Like I guess is (inaudible) I did data analysis or I did so many, you know, extractions or something," like a kind of checking in to see what I've done and, I don't know. I think thinking like that makes me feel better about...

THERAPIST: You say like where's the productivity here? [00:21:57]

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. So... (PAUSE) Yeah, I think I've always kind of been that way. But I don't know if it's like extra important for me now because it's like as long as I'm doing something... Like it's okay when I'm productive so I don't have to look into med school or kind of feel better about myself, I don't know (inaudible at 00:22:57). [00:23:00]

THERAPIST: And like to what extent? In what ways do you take it out on yourself if you aren't doing enough?

CLIENT: I don't know. I'm just critical or... I don't know. I think, yeah, it's kind of that feeling of, yeah, like giving up or the day is wasted or, yeah.

(PAUSE) [00:24:00]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What's that feeling like?

CLIENT: I don't know. I'm trying to think. (PAUSE) I think a lot like when I do think that way I kind of think about, I guess all the things I could do to rectify what happened today or like to make myself feel better I think a lot about that. Maybe I, I don't know, am critical when I don't have things to do or like what got me in this rut in the first place. Did I sleep too long or, you know? [00:25:09]

THERAPIST: I think it's definitely the way you're talking is it seems to me that you convey a fair amount of sort of pain and hurt describing what it's like when you haven't been productive and when you're kind of calling yourself out on not having done enough that... I mean, it sort of indirectly seems to me that like you kind of do a number on yourself when that happens. [00:26:05]

But you don't sort of come out and say that. Like you said, "Well, you know I try to think of (inaudible at 00:26:19) or what happened or how that came about (inaudible). I believe you. Those are the thoughts that you have (inaudible). But your affect comes across like you're, like it's upsetting and it's painful. And I was sort of but that's not quite what you're explicitly saying about what it's like.

CLIENT: Right. I guess like, yeah, during those times it feels like I'm my lowest or, yeah. [00:27:09]

THERAPIST: Is it hard to talk about how bad it feels? I guess... Let me rephrase that. I think it's hard to talk about how bad it feels. (LAUGHTER) I'm not trying to twist your arm and get you to talk about it but it seems to me like that's true. That's sort of interesting.

CLIENT: I think yeah it is hard. Right now it's kind of... I'm not remembering it very well. I think I just kind of remember it like thinking my... During this time I analyze (inaudible) my relationships with people and I don't know (inaudible). [00:28:17]

THERAPIST: What do you think of your relationships with other people? Like happened in those?

CLIENT: Right. Like... I don't know. Like I think a lot about like... I don't know. Like I wish I was closer to this person or like I wish I... I don't know. I wonder how I come off to people or I wish like (inaudible).

(PAUSE) [00:29:05]

THERAPIST: Are you aware of feeling sad now?

CLIENT: Yeah but I don't really know why. I think, I think it's just because I have the time and I don't know. I don't do like anything with it or... Yeah.

THERAPIST: You may be right. I have an alternative hypothesis...

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: ...that's not altogether straying from that. But...

(PAUSE) [00:30:00]

I sort of wonder if it's hard to be aware. I think you probably like really do a number on yourself in the moments when this happens. Like after you've eaten the chocolate cake or after you've blown off, you know, the day in terms of being productive if you haven't worked out and you haven't, you know, gotten anything done vis-à-vis whatever you could have gotten done. Yeah like that... And you sort of get going on yourself and you get sort of critical and feel low. [00:30:57]

I wonder if you're sort of, kind of strange to say, but like not sort of all that fully aware of how you're feeling. I mean, you're aware of being very frustrated with yourself and clearly are. But I think you might also just be feeling really sad or like bad or kind of down for feeling like you've fucked up so badly as you see it in that moment. I mean, the frustration part I think you sort of identify more easily or readily. I imagine there's a kind of a sad part there that's a little harder to be as clear that you're feeling perhaps in those moments and that some of that is (inaudible) evidence now as we're talking about them. [00:32:19]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I may be just misreading your affect.

CLIENT: No I think (inaudible) I think I'm just sad that things aren't the way I want them or... Yeah. The general, yeah, disappointment or sadness.

THERAPIST: What thing? I mean, I have some thought. But I'm not sure which ones you're referring to. But what things aren't the way you want them? [00:32:59]

CLIENT: I don't know. I guess, yeah, I have this kind of feeling that like, you know, it's too late. Like I didn't turn out the way I wanted to or, I guess, friendships and (inaudible) critical of or...

THERAPIST: I'm sorry; I'm probably being too (inaudible) like you kind of like there's something like that going on at large. Like you sort of want it in some major way. Like the way you could blow a day by nine or ten in the morning kind of thing.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like you kind of blown it career wise in some way by not already being underway or by not (inaudible) personality. [00:33:57]

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's just kind of a lot of asking why and why am I this way? Whatever. And yeah.

THERAPIST: So you're like sad that this is how things have turned out...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: ...more so than because you feel you're blaming yourself for being such a fuck up.

CLIENT: Right (inaudible) regret I didn't do. Or...

(PAUSE) [00:34:51]

THERAPIST: I see and so one, one thing that like, you know, if you were to go home let's say and one the first day you had some time to do med school stuff, like looking at schools, you know, whatever you would do that would sort of protect you a little bit or make you feel or like shield you almost against feeling more broadly bad about how things are in a way. Like it sounds like there can be sort of a fair amount riding on what you do today in terms of how you feel or think about some of these things.

CLIENT: Right. Or I think it's (inaudible) work or like, you know, happen like (inaudible).

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And then, I don't know (inaudible). [00:36:05]

THERAPIST: I see. So the sort of, the fork in the road one way is towards, you know, pain every day (inaudible) there's a chance I can move forward and, you know, got to med school and the other way is kind of like, "I didn't do anything today. This is how it's always going to be."

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. I think it's like when I saw my friend she's like very excited about things (inaudible) okay, maybe I can do this." But then, I don't know, the feeling goes away. Like (inaudible) I don't know like rationalize it or something. Like yeah. Yeah, the feeling of like my chances have gone, you know. Yeah. (PAUSE) I think the whole like feeling productive is just like having a plan for beforehand or something.

(PAUSE) [00:38:00]

And I guess I also feel like I'm at a loss for like what I can do at home to not feel like I've wasted time there. Like, you know, there's like not much that I can feel like I can do...

THERAPIST: In the way of tasks?

CLIENT: Right. [00:39:01]

(PAUSE)

I think it comes down to yeah and what position I want to be in and where I want to be. So... And I don't know what to do, I guess.

THERAPIST: We should stop for now and we'll talk more tomorrow.

CLIENT: Thanks.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

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