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CLIENT: Okay. Well I guess I was thinking about I guess why when I'm here I can talk. I'm very I guess theoretical or sick (ph) so I don't pick many I guess succinct rules and I don't know. It's just, I don't know if it's just me being uneasy about, I don't know, telling, I don't know, details of my life or if maybe I just feel self-conscious. I don't know. Yes, I guess, yes, I don't know, yes just I guess going into more detail, explain more about I guess what's going on in my life. But I mean it's not like I'm avoiding anything but I'm just [inaudible at 00:01:54]. So I was just thinking about that because last week, yes, we are ramping up, questioning them I guess [inaudible at 00:02:14]. In terms of, so I guess I was thinking about what I should talk about or, yes. [00:02:29]

THERAPIST: My impression is that our ramping up maybe heightened your worry about my judging by your whatever as I get to know you better in part, in terms of past specific details that I think you're referring to.

CLIENT: Yes, I don't know I'm not sure if being thorough can compare. I tell my friends if something's bothering me, the little details that a friend would still, probably still talk to you, and I don't know, I don't know it's kind of weird because I don't think yes, I don't know, maybe I just don't go into much detail here. I don't know why but I feel just it's almost far and away or I don't know. [00:04:03]

THERAPIST: But there are details about things that you've been sort of thinking about or imagining telling me?

CLIENT: Not really. I was just, I guess I was just thinking I think in general or something and then, I don't know, and I guess it's just kind of the idea that I'm supposed to be sharing my deepest darkest secrets or something but I don't have any left over. I don't know, it's that kind of feeling [inaudible].

THERAPIST: I'm so confused in that at first you pretend not to provide as many guilt-specific experiences you say when talking to a friend but you say you talk further but more general, more abstract. But then you also have the feeling pushing out in the direction that well you [inaudible at 00:06:18] the analysis tossed out the deep, dark secrets. Is the voice more like that? [00:06:25]

CLIENT: Right. I guess it's also just, I don't know, I don't know if I feel like I should almost in terms of giving up what's been bothering me or just kind of the most but I don't know if I should, if I feel the pressure or not the pressure I just feel like I should let myself go, I don't know, want to go or not feel so I don't know, on edge or [inaudible at 00:07:16] filter.

THERAPIST: Well I'm thinking that's sort of the general instruction is to say whatever comes to mind no matter how sort of unimportant or inappropriate it seems. But inevitably that becomes difficult and often in particular in other words we're all looking at [inaudible] difficult, which I think is actually exactly what you 're doing right now. [00:08:18]

CLIENT: No, I don't know other than I think maybe just the general feeling of I don't want to, I don't know, complain or seem boring or something more, I don't know, or greedy, yes. But I don't know.

THERAPIST: Either which I guess would lead me to like you less?

CLIENT: I don't know. Yes, I mean probably I guess, or just I guess also just that nothing's wrong, that I'm just, I don't know, spoiled or whiny or something, I don't know.

THERAPIST: I see. That would really be the only legitimate diagnosis. I have somebody I could corrupt and [inaudible at 00:10:10].

CLIENT: Now I'm thinking in, if I am, say something happened in our time, revealing it to some friends or whatever, I think, I don't know, I think it often happens where I don't know if I'm just sensitive to it or if it actually does happen a lot but I feel like I often, I don't know, maybe get cut off or distracted or or no, no, no. I get cut off or they get distracted or I don't know, and maybe I, I don't know, maybe I have become more just precise with, I don't know, my stories or I don't know.

THERAPIST: Does it feel like you kind of, you can't count on having that much air time in a way?

CLIENT: Right. And I don't know if I, if I start suddenly a story, I don't know if I'm just a good book turned general or if, I don't know. Yes, I don't know what it is, but I feel like I give them a lot of attention so, yes. But not, I don't know, I'm not complaining or kind of blaming them because I feel like I'm not perfect to give air, like who knows how I come off? I mean, I don't know. [00:12:54]

THERAPIST: My impression is much that you're sort of curious about why you feel this way and what's going on. I guess more so that than being critical about it or upset about it.

CLIENT: I think I just feel anxious. I talk and talk and I quickly end the story. [laughs]

THERAPIST: Maybe attention makes you anxious. [00:14:29]

CLIENT: I don't I mean I probably, yes, I just kind of think that, I just think it's just insecurity, talking about myself about what was going on, sort of feel important or whatever, and I always tried to tuck it away but, I don't know. I think it comes from I'm just kind of, I don't know, maybe I'm just bored or maybe so unsure about what's going on in my life, which I'm kind of like no matter I don't want to talk about it. It's there's the deed [inaudible at 00:16:28] the problem is.

THERAPIST: And that's all you're worried there about whether it's actually you don't want to hear a lot but you're going to have to pick. [00:16:39]

CLIENT: Right. I don't know. I don't know what it is but I guess, I don't know. I don't know why none of them seem disinterested or bored to talk or whatever. [Pause] So yes, I asked [inaudible at 00:19:10] to think about it if I should come along just that I don't accept that, yes, this is the way it is or to try, I don't know. I don't know. That sort of leads to changing (ph). God I don't even know what I would do if [inaudible at 00:19:49] to make things more interesting.

THERAPIST: Well I think, I mean as I'm hearing it you're describing a few different related problems. Sort of I get the sense that in a way you can say is there is difficulty that you sort of [inaudible at 00:20:29] like talking more easily about I'm thinking you're struggling with feelings that matter to you and too sort of worries. I think what you've been describing so far they get in the way if you're being able do that, to talk more into like that, are a concern about losing the other person's interest, maybe in just what you're saying at that moment, maybe more broadly losing interest like you lose a person in a way turns out [one way or another] (ph). [00:21:21]

And then the other way is a battle here by yourself, feeling for yourself, or frustrated or upset by the difficult things that you bring up and talk about and I do think these are thing you can work on and change. I mean I those I mean in general things pretty much like this, I think they can get better, which, I guess, I don't know maybe in a kind of, I wonder if it almost depends on in a partial (ph) way you sort of worry about making it through the process of doing that, say the process of talking about things for fear of boring me or losing my interest or really boring or bothering yourself. [00:23:20]

CLIENT: Right. I think, I don't know, I kind of I guess when I'm talking about it and I guess feeling my reaction to this it's kind of like, I don't know, I just [inaudible at 00:23:50] I don't say oh I can't talk to people. It bothers me that I would think God, [inaudible at 00:23:56]. I don't know. Yes it's just a general loss of interest of who cares, like feeling you're dispensable. I don't know if it's just because I balk or I don't know or I don't know. I don't know if it's [inaudible at 00:24:25] kind of given up on, it's spiraling downward which was sort of I don't know, me or something. [00:24:54]

THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:25:24] quite a thought.

CLIENT: I feel like for a while but I can't like I call my friends. I don't know, they always, they don't try to, I can't, I don't know I'm having trouble talking to people or relating to people. Not like [inaudible at 00:26:04] wouldn't think about it and say, I don't know, no, yes. It's kind of I think in general I just don't think deeply about things and [inaudible at 00:26:23] in particular to them or I don't know. [00:26:23]

THERAPIST: What do you mean when you say you don't think as deeply about things?

CLIENT: Yes, as I used to. I used to -

THERAPIST: Oh the things [inaudible] as deeply about things. Okay, right.

CLIENT: Yes, it's more than just, yes, because I'm not, I don't have I don't know, many hobbies or [inaudible at 00:26:50] or passion so I don't speak to them. I'm very just matter of fact with them.

THERAPIST: I get the impression that underneath that you feel pretty much sad and very frustrated. I mean it -

CLIENT: Oh, I'm just thinking about how I'm frustrated. I don't know, it bothers me. Frustrated, I think I'm mostly just frustrated with myself. Yes, I'm not taking advantage of whatever, life or, I don't know, or I screwed up in the past or I don't know. [inaudible at 00:28:20] I don't know, seems critical to enjoy. [00:28:23]

THERAPIST: But why? I think you're saying that you really don't feel very worthwhile at all. [00:29:23]

CLIENT: I guess. I don't know. I guess I'm just thinking about I could've got to this thinking of, I don't know, being equal a lot. In general I guess, there's more interesting things and I'm not, I think it started out as I don't know. I think, yes, a search for something meaningful or something because I mentioned before in college I liked probably religious-based classes, philosophers and I was disappointed by each one and very critical of each one and I'm working on [inaudible at 00:31:37]. I put too much belief on, I don't know, just like the answer to, I don't know what the question was, just how to find my sort of meaning. And, yes, maybe I'm, yes, I'm just combing through ways, yes. All of my, yes, just interesting things that doesn't pertain to, I don't know, this truth I've been searching for. I don't know. Things are like [00:32:31]

THERAPIST: What sort of things, what sort of interests did you put away?

CLIENT: Every blatant, music, I don't know, just things that people enjoy like music, I don't know, TV, just stuff that, I don't know. But that could be, that's critical at a point.

THERAPIST: You edited (ph) it narrowly, more narrowly focused on some more kind of transcendent meaning reigns or -

CLIENT: But now that obviously removed from college I'm kind of we're out, refocused on [inaudible] meaning, defy and [inaudible at 00:33:54] so I thought I don't know there was something I don't know, there, truth or something. And now I think I'm kind of going back, kind of, I don't know. You want to have interests, want to have, yes, [inaudible at 00:34:21] but not, yes, but it's hard. I don't know. It's hard to enjoy or I don't know I've lost that I don't know. [00:34:44]

THERAPIST: Like you can enjoy things music or TV or whatever? I know you haven't had time to unwind or relax your focus a little bit from how it was when you were in college. Is that not working in a way?

CLIENT: Yes, well I mean, yes. I don't know. I think I'm just, I don't know, probably just stuck, I don't know. Maybe it's just hard for me to enjoy things but I don't directly, I don't benefit entirely, I don't know, you asked me [about my] (ph) exercise bike (ph), that helps with clear thinking or something like that, just going to move me or wanting to do things that come up, actually help with higher thinking or [00:36:43]

THERAPIST: So that you can kind of do because it has this sort of bigger purpose to it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But sitting around watching TV doesn't?

CLIENT: Yes. I don't know. I know things that I 'm extremely confused because if I thought it was what I liked then I'd be, I don't know, volunteering all my time overseas. I'm sure that's like [inaudible at 00:37:52] very sweet. [00:38:14]

THERAPIST: Like maybe there's a way of more of a fantasy than a reality in sight, like a fantasy that the things you do have to be connected to a larger purpose in some way, and are kind of [inaudible at 00:38:37] yourself against that fairly often?

CLIENT: Some days I do, but now I'm going back because I can't talk to people I can't relate or I'm not enjoying things that people enjoy. I'm not pulling back. I'm missing something because I'm not enjoying it or maybe it's just kind of, yes.

THERAPIST: That's kind of why people do those things in the first place and you sort of don't have that capacity as much?

CLIENT: Right. It's almost the feeling that I missed something and now that's why I'm not happier in my life. I don't know, it's confusing. Yes. It seems like I am bored and I am frustrated that I can't, that I don't have passions or interests that are, I don't know, that kind of define me or something, but [inaudible at 00:40:47] or something but and then the other side is, I don't know, I don't know. [00:41:03]

THERAPIST: I guess one way it sounds to me as though you used to feel kind of like you're on a mission and you sort of decided necessarily want to be on a mission in quite the same way but in sort of rotating back to civilian life it's kind of hard to get used to it again or sort of re-acclimate to enjoying the sort of casual and prosaic things that one sort of doesn't have time for or doesn't make space for when it's like a mission of some kind. And similarly being so focused on coming, it seems so important doesn't quite leave room for passions or have any sense of what you really wanted to do or how you really feel like spending an afternoon [inaudible at 00:42:31] much more directed demanding way of being. And but you're kind of feeling like you don't have either, this sense of kind of purpose or hope or purpose that goes along with being on a mission or the [inaudible at 00:43:01] just kind of enjoy being able to do whatever you want. [00:43:09]

CLIENT: I don't know. I'm wanting, I don't know. Even when I was clear, it was on a mission to, I don't know, yes, seeking, yes, critical and dismissing and wasn't emotional. But then in the end I think I realized how angry I was at everything and then, yes, I try to step back and I try to, I don't know, and now, yes, now I'm just kind of, yes, lost and -

THERAPIST: We should stop for now but I will e-mail you [inaudible at 00:44:41].

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure. [00:44:59]

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