TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: I have followed up with Blue Cross and the stuff from the fall, and there's basically more fun with Blue Cross that I don't know yet. They just haven't for some reason been getting my faxes even though they are going through correctly, so I finally got a supervisor there on the phone and I'll let you know, when I know anything.

CLIENT: Okay. Thanks a lot for looking in to it.

THERAPIST: Sure. (pause) something else occurred to me, that I thought you should know, as far as analysis goes, which is this. So I'm in the later stages in my training as an analyst, I see a number of people in analysis, I started in training, I guess 10 years ago, I took a couple of years off. I've been at it a while. But, yeah, I should have finished the next year I think, but I wanted, I should let you know that I am, at the end of my training, as opposed to having (inaudible) And if you have questions about that or whatever, I'm happy to answer them. [00:01:20] (pause) Well what's on your mind?

CLIENT: (pause) I guess I just feeling lately like, with the e-mails and just like not, really like, thinking too much about what I should do with my life, I don't know. And kind of like taking things as they come. I guess like, beating up on myself a little bit. I've also been noticing I've been like, daydreaming or thinking about like, how my friends are, like old friends from like high school or something. Not in like a, comparing myself way, just kind of like a curiosity of like, how other people live kind of, I guess live, or what I guess drives them or motivates them, I don't know. And what they do for fun or work or whatever. I don't know. I think I'm just searching for a way to like think, or you know, like what should I think about, or how should I think, or even like, yeah, how should I live or something like that. And you know, it's been very (inaudible) I don't know, wanting, I don't know, wants like to have like a personality or want for something. I don't know how to describe it. Having interests, other than wanting to change. [00:03:59]

(Chuckle) I guess I've been, other than just, like focusing on things like making that error or something, or just hobbies or something, I don't know. But, yeah, I don't know. Kind of, sort of like, what should I think, how should I think. I think I just, my mind just draws all sorts exotic conclusions.

THERAPIST: Like, you are looking for models in a way?

CLIENT: Yeah kind of, yeah. Or, yeah, or maybe like taking what I think are the best pieces from people and I don't know. (pause) But -

THERAPIST: Is it helpful? [00:05:40]

CLIENT: I guess. But I would like, I think like the want is, yeah, like we were talking before. I want, I don't know, natural motivation to want, not pushing myself to want like I do now. I don't know, it's like (pause) like, I feel like it's not like that healthy or something to like, to I don't know, fit some model in my head or something. (pause) (inaudible) I don't know.

(pause from [00:06:56] to [00:07:20])

I think it's just, yeah, I think just a want to (pause) yeah, enjoy, or have I guess things that I want to do other than what I need to do. Things that aren't survival or something.

THERAPIST: Right and you want those things to be coming from within and kind of spontaneously felt.

CLIENT: Right. (pause) I think like, when I'm focused on, like this one (inaudible) that's like, I don't know. Like what I read about on line, or how do to things better, or how to change (chuckle) or, I don't know

(pause from [00:08:46] to [00:09:29].

I don't know. Like I think about what I used to have, and just, I don't know, I feel like it (pause) yeah, like I, I don't know. (pause) Things I wanted to do and see, (inaudible phrase at [00:10:00]).

THERAPIST: You did used to feel a bit more kind of determined I think.

CLIENT: Yeah I think so. But then sometimes I think that was all external. Like the things I liked were all what my friends liked or I,

THERAPIST: It's hard to kind of, to get that out. Or remember it clearly or something.

CLIENT: (pause from [00:10:37] to [00:11:24])

I don't know, I'm just thinking like, whenever my friends or the people I know like that, kind of start to get a sense of my friend, Mike, who's a sports guy, Vicki is a, she likes music, or whatever, just like you kind of get a, not a complete like, who they are, but

THERAPIST: Just well rounded picture, or a sense of their well roundness.

CLIENT: Right, or what their interests are, what they all like to talk about or something. And I don't know, with me I feel like it's just kind of like, (pause) I don't know, blah or something. She kind of likes, she kind of likes running or I don't know, just like, there's not much there I guess.

(pause from [00:12:47] to [00:13:17])

But yeah, I just get all, why's it so hard for me to know what I want. I don't feel passionate or motivated about something. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Right. (pause) What feeling do you have about that? In other words, is your response mostly to be frustrated for not knowing, or sad for not knowing, or worried?

CLIENT: (pause) All of them. Yeah, worried, and sad and just like, I keep asking myself, like what, or how, what's changed, or what am I doing wrong in my life?

(pause from [00:14:36] to [00:15:00])

What worries me is, if I don't, kind of like, find something, my niche or whatever, I d don't know. I've kind of always, I'm like I won't enjoy myself, or

THERAPIST: Like you won't be satisfied?

CLIENT: Right. Again, it feels like I want to be, not dependent on other people for happiness or a distraction. I want to be able to, I don't know, make myself happy. But not completely, I don't want to be like, for ever and ever

THERAPIST: Yeah. (chuckle) Anyways, but yeah, have like some of that will come from yourself and the things that you do. Like work and hobbies and whatever.

CLIENT: Correct. (pause) So, yeah, (inaudible)

(pause from [00:16:32] to [00:16:44])

I guess yeah, it comes form like, having things, and I'm curious about people and should I go like, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Do you feel like other people are doing something differently, or have some kind of magic trick?

CLIENT: (pause) I don't know, I think it's just like, they are certain, are more like they are more, I don't know. I can tell they don't have like, I don't know just like a more, not like a magic trick, but I think I'm just like, so, yeah, I'm so critical of things, I don't know. I don't know what I like, or...(pause)

THERAPIST: Do you fee like you've been so critical of things that you've kind of shut down a bit in terms of who you are and what you feel like?

CLIENT: Yeah I think that's part of it, and like, I mean another part of is like, if I was more intelligent or something, I would have more interests, in like politics (inaudible) I would feel compelled to do something, if I were smarter or something.

THERAPIST: I see. So you would sort of appreciate the significance of something, in a way that sort of inspires you to do stuff. (pause)

CLIENT: And like, I feel like, I should be like curious about myself and try to figure it out and see what comes up. [00:19:57] But I feel like I'm so, focused on (pause) being what I think I should be, that, I don't know, that I've been that way for so long, that it's hard for those things to come up. Because there are very few.

THERAPIST: I see, Are you, I don't know if you are sort of in-tuned to this or not, but you could be referring to in here.

CLIENT: (pause) I mean a little bit. I mean, (pause) it's more like, I don't know, (pause) Just like when people laugh at what's going on, (inaudible) I mean a little bit here because, [00:21:27] yeah just because I want to know how I should think, or

THERAPIST: Yeah, the sense I get is that, you want to know what you should do. You want to know how you should do this. You want to know what you should think. And, I think you feel a lot of I'm not sure, but I think you feel a pressure to resolve this.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean, but, yeah. I don't

THERAPIST: I think this feels pretty consuming.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I feel like it's kind of hindering me in a lot of ways, at like work, I don't know, moving on to the next step of life or whatever. (chuckle)

THERAPIST: But my sense is that the kind of, the pressure you feel from all of that, like the way all of that weighs on you, makes it hard here, to sort of let your mind go a little bit? It's as though we were sitting here a couple of hours before taking the MTAC (ph) or something. And I was like, what comes to mind? And you were like, well, (chuckle) let me tell you about the crab cycle. And, I mean, I ‘m obviously fantasizing a lot here, but you know, if this keeps weighing on you in a way that would make it harder to appreciate sum things, how you felt or what's going on. Because naturally you would be so focused on it, and so concerned about it. [00:23:51]

I mean, I have the impression that solving this can feel a little bit like that. Like there's kind of imminent, very heavy, (inaudible) intractable problem, that it's hard to like get any breathing room from, or space from. I'm not at mean to say that it's not a hugely important problem in your life, I don't mean that at all. But I think it has immediacy and that kind of magnitude that, yeah it doesn't give you a lot of breathing room. If that makes sense.

CLIENT: Right, like if I'm not doing something, like work or whatever, that's like kind of what I'm doing, I mean w hat should I be doing to (inaudible) I don't know. (inaudible) (pause) In terms of coming here, it's kind of like, again, I'm trying to like, [00:25:32]

I don't think in a certain way, that I'll have like an A-ha moment or a like get here what is needed to change or something, I don't know. (inaudible)

(pause from [00:25:47] to [00:26:03])

I guess I'm just going to just, I don't know if I give myself purpose but like, weigh something out in the way I should think or (pause) I don't know.

THERAPIST: You mean such as thinking of other people and what they are like, is that one instance of it? Or do you mean something else, when you say I think (inaudible) to think?

CLIENT: (pause) I think it's like, trying to being more curious about it, instead of being upset of what's going on. But I mean, I think it's just me trying not to be irrational. Trying not to get so wound up I guess. [00:27:16]

And thinking, Oh my God, like what's wrong with me, I can't think. But I think it's just me and thinking about the way people are like having, like daydream, or whatever. I don't know, it's like neutral or not like our, not I don't know, or think for myself so I kind of do that to not think of, you know, why am I not you know, reading about politics online (chuckle) or whatever, not volunteering, or something like that, you know?

THERAPIST: It's like always affecting you.

CLIENT: Right.

(pause from [00:28:11] to [00:28:38])

Yeah, and I guess that I'm not aware that it comes through and what I think of what I'm doing are like (inaudible) and what I'm thinking about with people.

THERAPIST: They are kind of pulling strings in the background?

CLIENT: Right.

(pause from [00:29:08] to [00:29:35])

But again, it's like I'm not doing anything, I don't know, if anything else can come up, like what do I think when I do. That drive was there, it was kind of always there. I don't know, what I think, or what would come up (inaudible).

THERAPIST: I wonder?

CLIENT: To me it feels like there's not much there. There's not much like anything behind or I don't know. I want them to change, or I want them to be something else. (pause)

THERAPIST: What does it feel like? Back there, that there's just nothing?

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm trying to think, like have I always been this way? I think so, like I'm a replaying my (inaudible) (pause) yeah, but being with softball, like what else could I do to get better? Like high school like, you know always like, getting through, and now college, and being a perfect student. And now college is like what can I do to you know, form the right knowledge, and just kind of always like, I don't know. [00:31:59]

Wanting to be something, like I thought I should be or something, I don't know.

THERAPIST: But I guess your impressions that are apart from that...

CLIENT: You know there is

THERAPIST: Like that you are kind of empty inside?

CLIENT: I think so, yeah. (pause) But I mean, I think like I used to be sad about it, but now it's so familiar, or like, I knew that's my problem. Like I don't have, these interests (inaudible) obsessive (inaudible)

(pause from [00:33:13] to [00:33:48])

So yeah, I don't know if I like, should try to create something, or (chuckle) or build something, or for me to be like, I don't know, meditate every day for three hours and see what happens. (chuckle)

(pause from [00:34:18] to [00:34:45]).

THERAPIST: There is something going on here, (pause) something I feel like I'm not quite getting my head around.

(pause from [00:35:00] to [00:35:56])

Well, here's another alternative, (pause) maybe (pause) the fantasy that you have that there's really nothing there, (pause) makes you so anxious, that it then actually becomes very difficult to get in touch with what you want or what you feel like doing. I think that's part of where I'm coming from here. You seem to kind of, get yourself real wound up, and I have a sense that as you get into the loop of thinking about it, it actually makes things worse. Like, as you go through the process, I mean even here, I think like, well, okay, I try to do this, I try to do that, I try to do the other thing, and it doesn't work, and it feels like it's just not there. I don't know if I should do this, I don't know if I should do that. Like there's something in the way you talk about it, through the course of it, I think you can actually feel, more hopeless and more anxious. [00:38:26]

And like you have less traction.

CLIENT: Yeah like I'm questioning where my want of, what I should be doing is coming from. I'm undermining (inaudible) or take that because you know..

THERAPIST: Yeah, it almost functions like an attack. (pause) Under which, it's really hard to be clear with yourself. (pause) And we don't know, maybe you feel like running, maybe you feel mixed about running. Maybe you feel like running but not that far, we don't let's say that in a sense we're, that's what you're trying to sort out. But something about the process of trying to understand, trying to get in touch with it, and then comes the self doubt, and worry, and self criticism, that kind of (pause) that undermines what you are trying to do there. [00:40:01]

CLIENT: (pause) I don't know, I want I think it comes from like, I don't want I know that I'm easily influenced by the other people. So I'm trying to fix it, and when I try to analyze the things that I want and where they are coming from, and then I see, you know, are they genuine, are they something that I want. That you know, I can get. Again, me trying to be some thing that I'm not. Like someone who feels things like, other influence by whatever, media, whatever. (inaudible) tingling.

THERAPIST: You what?

CLIENT: Tingling.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Tingling? Is that what you said?

CLIENT: I'm tingling.

THERAPIST: Well, yeah, then you start to feel like you aren't the way you should be, and you don't know what you should. And you doubt what you thought you knew, thought you felt. [00:41:29]

CLIENT: Right, and then I'm like, why am I even in (inaudible) or I don't know. (inaudible)

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think they're like, (pause) in a way, I mean just for the sake of a goofy illustration, you know you were working with a kid on a homework project, and the kid and like, the kids trying to figure out what to write a story about or what to draw a picture of. You were like, is that really how you should be thinking about what to draw a picture about, and is that really your idea, or did somebody else tell you that, or is that what your friend is doing? And, you know, actually are you even going about the right way thinking what you want to draw, this picture of, like after a while, the kid would get overwhelmed.

(pause from [00:42:29] to [00:42:48]).

CLIENT: Yeah, I am overwhelmed. And then I kind of shift down and I mean, I need someone else to say things (inaudible) So I can draw it or whatever.

THERAPIST: Right. Right.

CLIENT: (inaudible phrase)

(pause from [00:43:11] to [00:43:36])

Yeah it's just, I need like, you know, need like, (inaudible) be myself, and I'm well, goodness, (chuckle) it's coming from something outside. (laughter) How I feel. (inaudible) But I have no idea, right?

THERAPIST: Yeah. But I'm well aware that none of this is, that all what is it I'm trying to say is at all prescriptive.

CLIENT: No, yeah, I know.

THERAPIST: But I do think that, by kind of letting in a little air on the sort of process of how this unfolds for you, you like a, a little bit like, it might give you a little bit more menu, or a different angle you might not have had before.

(pause from [00:44:43] to [00:44:58])

We need to stop for now.

CLIENT: Okay. (inaudible) Thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure.

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