TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
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BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
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CLIENT: Yeah. It’s (inaudible at 00:00:34), I don’t know. Some time looking up different health insurance options for my brother. I don’t know. I’ve been talking with Vicki. Because she’s a student, I guess she doesn’t technically have any income. [00:01:04] And so, she was like, “Oh, I got Medicaid. I’m sure your brother can, too,” because—whatever.
I think it’s because she lives in Delaware, which is a much wealthier state [chuckles] than Florida. But the cutoff [your yearly] (ph) income is so much lower in Florida (crosstalk at 00:01:29).
Somehow, actually, I was actually really surprised. My brother had a [chuckles] W-2. I don’t know. We just worked it out and talked to [I don’t know] (ph). We talked to, yeah, a couple—whatever. I don’t even know what they’re called. Representatives from the insurance companies about—I don’t know.
So, yeah. Got him some insurance. [00:02:04] I guess it doesn’t kick in until (crosstalk at 00:02:07) February 1st.
THERAPIST: So it’s not Medicaid but it’s something else?
CLIENT: Yeah. It’s some blue silver plan.
THERAPIST: [chuckles]
CLIENT: Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida or something. Yeah.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. The deductible was waived or whatever, so it was nice.
THERAPIST: Oh, good.
CLIENT: Whatever. He just wants to pay a copay for visits. So, yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah. I guess it seems like a good plan for what he needs right now.
THERAPIST: Uh huh. Good.
CLIENT: Yeah. [00:03:00] Yeah. It was like [he didn’t get back in the] (ph) morning and then—I don’t know. Yeah. The other thing is I’m going to be paying for his insurance and for probably some of his copays, because, yeah, he has a new job here. So I don’t know—I’m worried about living outside my means, in terms of money and—and I have to cut back coming here, because—I don’t know. [00:04:02] (inaudible at 00:04:02) to—yeah. Get Stephen help and I know—I don’t know. And my parents can’t—I don’t know. Can’t get their shit together to, I don’t know, come up with some money. And they have their own problems. I don’t know.
I have to think about it and think—wait to hear, once Stephen gets his insurance, then what he wants to do, what he can find. To (ph), I don’t know, see how much I can spend here and spend there. But (inaudible at 00:04:57).
THERAPIST: When you figure it out, let me know. [00:05:01]
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: I’ll see . . . also if there’s anything I can work out.
CLIENT: Okay (ph). I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s right around February 1st or whatever that Monday is. I know people from work are—those two dates are coming to—I don’t know. For this (inaudible at 00:05:40) dramatic soiree or whatever my boss is calling it. [chuckles]
THERAPIST: [chuckles]
CLIENT: So, I don’t know. We’ll see. I don’t know. Trying to take care of the, I don’t know, (inaudible at 00:05:55) up first week in February or something. I don’t know. My brother’s (inaudible at 00:06:00) figure it out. [00:06:02] (inaudible at 00:06:05) like that.
THERAPIST: So, I just want to be clear. Are you saying that we’re not meeting that week or are you saying you want to wait and see? Any is fine. I’m not quite sure what you mean.
CLIENT: [chuckles] Me neither.
THERAPIST: [laughs] Okay.
CLIENT: Well, I know he –
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:06:23)
CLIENT: Right. Well, I know that Monday and Tuesday, I’m going to have to definitely miss. The 3rd and the 4th. Let’s see. Once my boss comes back. He gets back on this Friday. [I don’t know] (ph). [00:07:00]
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CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t know. Yeah. Money is a big worry. I don’t know. I don’t want to—I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah, just, yeah, no, continue, I don’t know, worrying about it and making it worse. I don’t know. It’s not like I’m living lavishly or anything, but—I don’t know. [00:08:00]
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CLIENT: So, then, yeah. I guess those are the—I don’t know. Rockefeller is supposed to call me about (ph) schools, but we’ll see. [chuckles] I won’t know if I got in (inaudible at 00:08:56).
THERAPIST: Oh, wow.
CLIENT: So, I don’t know. [00:09:00] I think I’ll start hearing back real soon from other schools. Yeah.
THERAPIST: I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Yeah, good luck.
CLIENT: Thank you.
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CLIENT: So, yeah. I don’t know. I guess I feel like I’m being—I don’t know. [00:10:00] I don’t know. Because I’m stretched thin over the—everything’s happening to me. It’s I guess emotionally. I don’t know. It’s part of—I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I just feel like I’m rooting (ph) for it or being productive or—I don’t know. I guess it’s not—even though, yeah, I got my brother health insurance, it’s not very satisfying. I don’t know. Everything’s still (inaudible at 00:11:01). [00:11:03] I don’t know. I have to wait it out. But [I don’t know] (ph).
THERAPIST: That’s only one step in many steps over probably months . . .
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: . . . towards his getting better.
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know. Same thing with, I don’t know, hearing back from schools. I don’t know. I just (inaudible at 00:11:48) go to an interview or I still have to have to—I don’t know. I just want to already be done and off my mind, I guess. [00:12:00]
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THERAPIST: Well, in the meantime, sounds as though some relief or a respite would be nice, as well.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I’m not saying you’ll get one. I’m just saying it sounds it’d be nice.
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know. Yesterday, later in the afternoon, (inaudible at 00:12:53) where I was talking to Marlowe. Yeah. I was feeling of we were taking a coffee break or whatever. [00:13:02] And I was just—I don’t know. Yeah. Just this feeling of needing something more than this break. Some kind of relief or—I don’t know. Because I think both of us are just going to go—I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. The feeling or (inaudible at 00:13:31).
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[00:14:00]
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THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:14:55) also mention that there have been times (inaudible at 00:15:00), often times things here are easy. [00:15:05] I think I feel like I put a lot on you.
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CLIENT: I think it’s more of wishing I had more control over—I don’t know. Myself or my emotions. I don’t know. [00:16:00] It’s harder to do it here or to . . . I don’t know.
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THERAPIST: Things happen that can (inaudible at 00:16:31) it up or make you feel confused or not in control.
CLIENT: That’s right.
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[00:17:00]
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[00:18:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know if it’s just . . . [I don’t know] (ph). I don’t know, but I guess feeling of being—I don’t know. Yeah. Just not in control or . . . worried or scared that—I don’t know. Yeah. That I can’t control myself or are—yeah. That I don’t have control or—of a situation. [00:19:00]
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THERAPIST: Really not your favorite thing.
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[00:20:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I mean, I don’t . . . I don’t know. I really, yeah, know how to—what I’m supposed to do. I don’t know. I don’t know.
THERAPIST: In a sense of how to (inaudible at 00:20:41) yourself?
CLIENT: Right. Because I feel like—I don’t know. [00:21:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know. In my mind, [when it comes to] (ph) taking up or taking more control or—I don’t know. Not being scared or what I want to say. I don’t know. Pushing. I don’t know. I don’t know. Pushing people away or . . . I don’t know. [00:22:01] I don’t know.
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CLIENT: I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:22:22)
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CLIENT: I guess being or allowing to be, I don’t know, less control. And I feel like I know more of what’s going on or—I don’t know. [00:23:02] Or I know what the other person wants or I think I do.
(pause)
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:23:45) one of the things that I’m looking at is what comes up for you. (inaudible at 00:23:54), is it worries? I guess self (inaudible at 00:24:05), too. [00:24:06] When you don’t feel the kind of control that you want and . . . I think . . . continuing to look at that will . . .
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THERAPIST: . . . will help you to . . . tolerate it better. And retain your capacity to think and to have a sense of where you and the other person are coming from in the moment. [00:25:08]
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THERAPIST: Am I seeing (ph) to what you mean? Or am I missing it?
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:25:33) I’m not sure. I mean, the way I see it is—I don’t know. I guess, all right, say at work or something. Someone asks me to do something. And I’m busy and (inaudible at 00:26:01) and do it. [00:26:01] And I’ll say, “I’ll make it work.” And put more pressure on myself without even (ph) saying no, because I take control. Me doing things more than what that person’s been asking of me by saying no.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: I don’t know. But, I don’t know.
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess it’s hard to—I could always feel where the other person was coming from, so it’s just harder for me to balance. I don’t know. [00:27:00]
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THERAPIST: When you say you could see where the other person’s coming from so it’s not easy for you to balance and (inaudible at 00:27:34). You can think about why they want you to do whatever it is they want you to do. Or what the time pressure’s there for them. And it’s hard to balance that with the pressure you, yourself, are under?
CLIENT: Right. Or I don’t know how to say or do yes or no. I don’t know. [00:28:00] I’d rather just put it on myself or (inaudible at 00:28:05). I don’t know. Say no or (inaudible at 00:28:10).
THERAPIST: Yeah. I think you get squeezed like that a lot, right? I mean, that’s (inaudible at 00:28:23) experience?
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know, in different ways. Not just doing things or doing (inaudible at 00:28:34) classic (ph) examples. (inaudible at 00:28:38)
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[00:29:00]
THERAPIST: Yeah, and either way, it seems to me, you have to potentially deal with feeling a bit out of control. Whether it’s because you tell the person no and you then take control or how they’re going to judge you and react to you. Or, because you say yes, and it gets to the point where you’ve (ph) got so much pressure on you and you get so anxious that you feel like you’re not in control I think the way you want to be. I mean, maybe it emerges as you’re not disciplined enough because you have more to do than you can get yourself to do. Or something like that. Is that –
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:30:00] My sense of it . . . I mean, I think in a slightly different way. So, [I mean] (ph), the fact that comes up in here fairly often. If it feels like you and are seeing something differently. And you are burdened with trying to deal with the way that I see it. Or . . . that I think is the analog of the task, in a way, that someone has else has asked you to do. Or I’m pushing that away. [00:31:00]
And I guess my thought is that—I mean, again, I think that’s something else that can contribute to your feeling of not knowing, at times, who’s right or how to look at something or think about it. And feel pressure. Yeah, I think it . . . I know it gets stressful, as you feel yourself getting more anxious or revved up or uncertain about it. [00:32:00] I guess my point was that I think . . .
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THERAPIST: . . . I’m looking at how that happens when it happens. And what your specific worries are. What’s happening as you get hung up or where you’re not being in control will help you to . . . tolerate it more easily and feel more able to think and make your own judgments about things. [00:33:00] I mean, here, but obviously . . . hopefully at lab or wherever else, as well. [Does that make sense] (ph)?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I suspect it may not feel like that’s happening and that may be frustrating, but I guess that’s . . . part of how I’m thinking about what we’re doing.
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[00:34:00]
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THERAPIST: I suspect, for you, that oftentimes it feels more like . . . you may get . . . stirred up in this way here or frustrated. And it doesn’t feel like it’s to a good end, but it’s just [chuckles] frustrating or disconcerting. [00:35:00]
CLIENT: Right (ph).
(pause)
THERAPIST: And then it can make you—unfortunately, it can make you feel like you must be doing something wrong. Or there’s something really the matter with you if you’re not feeling better. And things like that.
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know. I don’t know. For me, it’s always having the energy or attention to notice these things happening without just falling to old patterns of habits or just then being, I don’t know, overwhelmed and—I don’t know. [00:36:12] I don’t know.
THERAPIST: I see that it actually takes quite a lot of effort to keep that from happening.
CLIENT: Or even the correct things (inaudible at 00:36:35), I guess.
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[00:37:00]
THERAPIST: Which you may or may not have in a given day. And if you don’t, it sucks.
CLIENT: Right.
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CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t know. I guess it just—it makes me think of—I don’t know. My friends or whatever that I’m submissive to. I don’t know. It makes me think of Marlowe or Paul or something. I don’t know. [00:38:00] Yeah. I don’t know. How I get angry at myself for not, I don’t know, being more . . . in control or competent (ph) or saying what I want to say. Just being submissive because I don’t want to push them away or whatever.
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CLIENT: I mean, I have examples, but I don’t know how much time we have. [chuckles]
THERAPIST: Oh. Oh, we’ve got about five minutes. We started late. Oh, go ahead.
CLIENT: Well, I don’t know. Marlowe was telling me a story about his wife. And I’ve heard the story before. [00:39:04] And I knew he was lying to me about timing in his—it was a story about his wife’s research. And I know his wife well. And I know the story. And I could tell he was lying to me about his input into it. Or his contribution. I was like, “Well, you hadn’t even met your wife at this time that she’s doing this research.” [chuckles]
THERAPIST: I see. [chuckles]
CLIENT: And so, I don’t know. Things like that. He bullshits a lot. And then, same with Paul. I’m pretty sure Paul is lying to me about—he told me went home for—to the UK for the holiday. Which (inaudible at 00:39:55) why he’s lying to me about this, but I was like, “You don’t have a visa. You can’t travel. How the hell did you get back in the country?” [00:40:00]
I don’t know. Just things like that. In the moment, I’m like, “Whatever.” But then later, I’m like, “What the fuck?” I don’t know. And then, I just feel submissive or—I don’t know.
THERAPIST: Because you didn’t call him on it?
CLIENT: Or why are they lying to me? Or I know why Marlowe is, because—I don’t know. He likes to bullshit himself up. And I don’t know why Paul is. I don’t know.
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. I get mad that—I don’t know. That I’m really close to these people, but I don’t know. [00:41:00] I don’t know. It just doesn’t feel true or—I don’t know. But I keep going always back to it or—just doesn’t seem . . . [I don’t know] (ph).
THERAPIST: I imagine there are also things like that that you wanted to call me on but that’s been hard to do.
(pause)
THERAPIST: I’m not insisting that you do that. I’m just saying I . . . just because of the way it came up. [00:42:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: Well, I think it’s just me wanting to—(inaudible at 00:42:24) is me wanting, I don’t know, more say or something. Or control. I don’t know. Getting something out of it that is meaningful and not—I don’t know. But now, I feel like I’m waiting or—for something, I don’t know, to happen. I don’t know if that makes sense.
THERAPIST: Yeah. I would imagine feeling like you’re walking out of here with more that you can take with you to deal with the stuff that’s stressing you out. [00:43:09] I mean, in whatever form that would take. But something like that.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: We should stop for now.
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