TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
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CLIENT: So, I guess, yeah. So, last Saturday, I was talking to my mom on the phone. [00:01:02] I don’t know. Let’s see.
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CLIENT: I don’t know. She was asking a question about her cell phone or something. I don’t know. Her tone was, I don’t know, really out of the ordinary. She was being really—talking very light, like (inaudible at 00:01:43). It was just really bothering me. I don’t know. [00:02:00] Yeah.
I said something. I was like, “What’s up with your tone? It’s very,” I don’t know, “out of the ordinary. Yeah. It bothers me.” I don’t know, she was just saying, “Oh, I’m just trying to be nice.” And, “Because I know I can have a,” she said, “Because I know I can have a harsh tone,” or whatever. I don’t know. I was just all, “It seems extremely unnatural. And I feel like you’re trying to manipulate me,” or whatever. I don’t know.
Anyway. Yeah, I don’t know. Started an argument, because—I don’t know. I guess because I’ve been very unhappy with the way she’s dealt with me and my brother and this whole situation. [00:03:16] And when I was home, over the holiday . . . I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. Everything she did just annoyed me or whatever. And so I’m not really sure why, but . . . I don’t know. I think it was just her trying to . . . avoid or forget things that need to be dealt with or I don’t know. [00:04:13] I don’t know. She just is going about her business, la-di-da, and—I don’t know. I don’t know.
So, yeah, I mean, and then, so, on the phone, I don’t know, she just—and I told her this when I left Boise. I was like, “You don’t deal with your problems. There’s something (inaudible at 00:04:43), there’s so much tension and anxiety in this house.” I don’t know. And, “You also don’t talk to people. You just go in your corner and assume the worst or put words in people’s mouths without actually understanding what they’re mad at or,” I don’t know. [00:05:05]
So, anyway. So, talking on the phone, she’s just like, “Well, I’m just trying to better or trying to change.” I don’t know. She just says all these like, “Oh, I’m not smart,” or, “I’m not (inaudible at 00:05:22).” “I’m not,” I don’t know. “(inaudible at 00:05:26), my children hate me,” and all these other things. I don’t know.
I was like, “No, not (inaudible at 00:05:32). I mean, I’ve never said those things. I just want, I don’t know, things to get better and I don’t know exactly how or why I’m so angry at you. I just feel like you’re not dealing with these things well.” I don’t know. “I mean, I can’t pinpoint exactly what makes me so frustrated, but—I don’t know. [00:06:01] It’s hard to talk you or want to talk to you.” I don’t know, so . . .
So, anyway. I don’t know. There was several rounds of . . . about same [kind of] (ph) things. Her saying, “I can’t do anything right.” And then me, being like, “No,” and—I don’t know. And I don’t know. I don’t know. I think she eventually got that I wasn’t trying to tear her down. I was just trying to, I don’t know, make things better, but I don’t know. I don’t know. I guess I just feel like I guess somewhat unsettled or mad at her or not really sure what to do next kind of thing. [00:07:13] I don’t know.
I don’t know. I don’t know. Observing or I feel like I don’t want some relationship with my mom where I come home and suck it up and do whatever she wants to do and pretend everything is fine or—I don’t know. But I’m not sure. [00:08:02] I don’t know. Or maybe that’s just easier or—yeah.
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THERAPIST: I imagine, for one, you’re pretty upset to have all these intense, critical feelings towards her that . . . you only partially understand so far. [00:09:00]
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know. Because I guess I don’t want to be resentful or, I don’t know, ungrateful or something, but I don’t know. I also don’t really want to—I don’t know. I feel like I have to deal with it, like I have to come up with a solution or I have to be—I don’t know. I don’t know. Again, it’s like she’s just like a victim and I have to, I don’t know, teach her or, I don’t know, (inaudible at 00:09:50) support (ph) her or correct her when I’m the one so angry. I don’t know. [00:10:00]
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THERAPIST: In a way, part of what you’re angry at her for is not being there for you in this very substantial way. And she can’t really be there for you for that, either. So you have to deal with it.
CLIENT: Right, but, I mean, I just—I don’t know. I’m saying that to her, I was just like, “You’re just not very supportive of,” or, “You’ve never been really,” I don’t know, “there.” [00:11:10] I mean, yeah, I mean, she’s always happy to talk to us. And I mean, she’s not evil, but, I don’t know, she’s not—I don’t know. What does that mean? There. Or supportive. I kept saying that, but she was like, “Well, what can I do?” And it’s just like, “I don’t know.” I don’t know, but . . .
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[00:12:00]
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THERAPIST: I’m going to make sure that I’m clear when you said, “What does mean for being there or supportive.”
CLIENT: Right, and then . . . I mean . . .
THERAPIST: Do you mean –
CLIENT: I don’t know what else I want from her, because there’s no (crosstalk at 00:12:31).
THERAPIST: Ah, okay. I wasn’t sure whether you were referring to your own answer, (inaudible at 00:12:34) what that means or to her to do with your own.
CLIENT: [I guess] (ph) I’m just uncertain –
THERAPIST: What else you actually do want.
CLIENT: Right. I mean, I guess I feel a lack of it, but –
THERAPIST: It’s not clear exactly what you’re lacking.
CLIENT: Right. [00:13:00]
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THERAPIST: In the instance you’re describing, I imagine what you would have wanted was . . . certainly not for her to be saying things like, “Well, oh, my kids hate me,” or, “I’m just dumb,” or whatever she said because that really changes the focus from you’re—not what you’re saying. And it shifts, as you said, into this victim mode, where it’s changing the subject of the conversation. It’s no longer as though what you’re saying is really what’s on the table. [00:14:03] It’s how victimized she’s feeling.
I would imagine, instead, you would have wanted to hear from her something more about . . . trying to—her being able to take in that you’re so angry. And not turn that into something else. And if you’re not clear about why, to help you think about it. Even if she doesn’t know yet, herself. And as far as being supportive, to let you know that she’s confident there’s something there, even if neither of you are clear yet what it is. [00:15:00]
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CLIENT: Yeah (ph). (inaudible at 00:15:23)
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[00:16:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I’m just—I don’t know. Really angry that she’s—yeah. I want to play this role and do—she just glosses over everything. Either she assumes she’s the worst. Or the next day, be—doesn’t mention anything. I don’t know. Doesn’t deal with anything. I don’t know. Or maybe I want to poke at things too much, but I don’t know. I’m just not settled or—yeah. [00:17:08]
THERAPIST: I wonder if her response of not dealing with it is part of what makes you wonder whether you want to poke at things too much. I mean, you’re saying you’re really angry and, in a way, I think, feel really disappointed in and distant from your mother. That, I think, just is a big deal. [00:18:00]
And it seems to me that on one side, on one hand, you are very clear, as you just said, that you’re frustrated with how she glosses over things and the next day, it’s gone. But on the other, maybe there’s a way in which . . . that has something to do with your own doubt about the validity of where you’re coming from.
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CLIENT: Right. [00:19:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess it’s a feeling like they don’t understand . . . I don’t know. Yeah. Where I’m coming from or how much this bothers me. I don’t know. There’s nothing they can really give me (inaudible at 00:19:39) I don’t know. I don’t know what’ll make me feel better, quench the anger or something. I don’t know. [00:20:00]
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THERAPIST: Do you mean . . . in principle, there’s nothing they could say or do you mean that given who they are and how—in light of who they are, they’re going to respond, there’s nothing they could say?
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess [just in] (ph) principle. [00:21:00] I don’t know. Yeah. Anyone could say—I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s the other thing. She could say, “I could work on it,” or, “I understand,” but I don’t know. I don’t believe. I don’t believe it’s going to work. Or I’m just going to get mad because she’s just going to, I don’t know, try to just be nice to me or something. And she thinks that’s what I want (inaudible at 00:21:39), but I (inaudible at 00:21:39), so I’m just—I don’t know. I don’t know.
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[00:22:00]
CLIENT: I guess I’m very doubtful that things will get better or change or . . .
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THERAPIST: I guess I have the sense that if she said something a bit like what I said a few minutes ago, that would feel different. I mean, unless you were saying, “Well, I just don’t believe it because of who she is,” in which case, that seems to have more to do with who she is than in principle what she could say. [00:23:00] I don’t know if I’m being clear. Should I elaborate?
CLIENT: No, I understand. I’m just (crosstalk at 00:23:13).
THERAPIST: Maybe I’m wrong.
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CLIENT: I’m not sure. One, I don’t think she could ever—I don’t know. I don’t know. Say anything to make, I don’t know, to make me feel better or, I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s because she doesn’t—I don’t know, we don’t think the same or don’t see things similar. [00:24:05] And she, I don’t know, is not willing to. So therefore, she could never understand what I’m going through or—I don’t know. Or I don’t know if it’s just because it’s (inaudible at 00:24:18).
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[00:25:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I just don’t think I trust or, I don’t know, believe her, I don’t know. I think she’s (inaudible at 00:25:25).
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THERAPIST: Yeah. My impression of what you don’t trust or believe is that she actually takes in what you’re saying, where you’re coming from, and can really get it. [00:26:14] Which also means that when she says she’s going to do something about it, you don’t believe it because you don’t think she’s really got where you’re coming from in the first place, I think.
CLIENT: Yeah, there’s a little bit of that. But then, there’s also this, I don’t know, she’s also just, “Well that’s the way I am,” kind of thing. It’s like yeah, no. I don’t know. [00:27:00] I don’t know. When I was talking about you just don’t talk to people, you just assume what’s going on and you don’t try to understand. You just [come up with your own] (ph) theory in your head and . . . and she’s like, “Well, that’s just the way I am,” or—well, I was, “Well, you don’t try to get to know your kids. And she’s like, “Well, I just don’t like to pry (ph).” And I’m just like [chuckles] (inaudible at 00:27:34). I don’t know, but . . . it’s very—(inaudible at 00:27:48) and then I just . . . go to extremes, as well. And I was like, “Well, things will never get better.” I don’t know. [00:28:02]
THERAPIST: I’m sorry. You said that you go to extremes, as well?
CLIENT: Right. And she’s giving these, “Well,” I don’t know. And so I just say, “Well, then, things will never get better between you and I or you and Tyler.” What more can we do for you (inaudible at 00:28:25)?
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THERAPIST: Well, no wonder you’re enraged (ph). [00:29:00] And I think also (ph) terribly disappointed.
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THERAPIST: I mean, the way—I imagine, it sounds like she’s saying . . . “I’m not going to—I can’t change myself or I’m unwilling to change myself in some way that I can get to know you and your brother.”
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[00:30:00]
CLIENT: Right. Or it’s (inaudible at 00:30:08) or everything is . . . she is or did something in the past or didn’t do something, and so now our things—I don’t know. Wrong or (inaudible at 00:30:33) I’ll ever get back or something. I don’t know.
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[00:31:00]
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THERAPIST: I imagine . . . also apropos of what you and have been talking about recently that part of what you’re angry at her for is the moments in which or the ways in which you also—but your attitude about it is very different from hers. [00:32:00] You have a lot of trouble . . .
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THERAPIST: . . . I don’t know. [I imagine] (ph) you’re dealing with some of the emotional stuff, do you know what I mean? I imagine it feels to you like you—some of the difficulties you have when you’re feeling very emotionally overwhelmed and like you need to push it aside or shut it out, I feel like they come very much from her. And that that’s something else you’re furious at her for. [00:33:03]
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CLIENT: [I don’t know] (ph). I guess a little bit, but . . .
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CLIENT: I don’t know. [00:34:02]
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I just feel like . . . (inaudible at 00:34:58) I don’t—I don’t know. [00:35:04] My reactions are, I don’t know, wrong or, I don’t know, (inaudible at 00:35:12). Harsh or something. But I don’t know.
THERAPIST: You mean towards her? Or do you mean about that other stuff I’m mentioning?
CLIENT: Other stuff, (inaudible at 00:35:35). But (inaudible at 00:35:43).
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[00:36:00]
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[00:37:00]
CLIENT: I guess there’s just very—I don’t know if my reactions, I don’t know, are being harsh or, I don’t know, or they’re, I mean, justified or (inaudible at 00:37:25) but I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:37:36)
THERAPIST: So in part of how I understand what you’re saying is that you feel like the difficulties that you have, that I’m mentioning and I think you’re referring to are separate from the stuff you’re talking about with your mom or more or less. [00:38:06]
CLIENT: I mean, I don’t know, I guess I probably get it from her. Just harsh reaction or—I don’t know. I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:38:34) I guess that’s just [what came to my mind] (ph).
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[00:39:00]
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THERAPIST: Maybe I’m a little unclear. So, the harshness that you’re talking about and the anger that you’re talking about in your reaction, is that the anger and harshness that you can feel sometimes towards other people but probably more often towards yourself when you feel like the other person or you are . . . be focused or productive or handling things in the way that they or you should be? [00:40:00]
CLIENT: Right. Or just in general how—I don’t know. I guess, I don’t know, people do or say make me want to reach very strongly or negatively or just –
THERAPIST: Is it judgmental or angry sort of way?
CLIENT: Right.
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[00:41:00]
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CLIENT: I guess that just makes me want to, I don’t know, not deal with it, not—I don’t want to interact with her or, I don’t know, other people because of this (crosstalk at 00:41:27).
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[00:42:00]
THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean, I think . . .
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THERAPIST: . . . I imagine that’s because you don’t . . .
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THERAPIST: . . . the way that you initially react, in that sort of angry, harsh fashion . . . it often doesn’t seem right or fair. And yet, you get confused and uncertain about whether it is or if not, how else should you react? [00:43:08] And it gets overwhelming. And often the best ways or it feels the best way to deal with that is to just not have an (ph) interaction.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:43:35)
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[00:44:00]
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THERAPIST: We should stop.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
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