TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I guess not much is really going on. [00:01:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: I guess I’ve been—yeah. Doing (ph) the same . . .
(pause)
[00:02:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know.
(pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. I guess, yeah, I’ve just been keeping busy. I don’t know. I don’t know. I guess, at work, I’m trying to just isolate myself a little bit. [00:03:03] I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I guess then (inaudible at 00:03:17) want a break from feeling unproductive or—I don’t know. Or [I don’t] (ph), I’m just going to [be more] (ph), I don’t know, strict. I don’t know. It’s okay that I—for now.
(pause)
[00:04:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I never really know how to—know what to think or how to handle situations where I am. I don’t know. It goes (ph) in and out. I don’t know. I have full perspective on the situation, but—and I always think I need to not see him or, I don’t know, break it off. [00:05:13] I don’t know. Well, I guess when he does come around, I forget or I’m—I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s like, well, let’s see how it goes or something. I don’t know. It’s always just, I don’t know, it’s hard for me to be strict or tough on myself. I don’t know.
But I don’t know. I guess it seems never-ending and like this cycle and, I don’t know. [00:06:09] (inaudible at 00:06:16)
(pause)
[00:07:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. So, again, I don’t know what to do, because I’m always—I don’t know. Go back and forth between, I don’t know, shunning him and then what my (inaudible at 00:07:25) looking to be or something. I don’t know.
(pause)
[00:08:00]
THERAPIST: Yeah, no, I can see how this—it fits the pattern (ph) you’ve been talking about where, bringing this up as something you’re unsure how to handle it have been pretty stuck on—puts you in the position with me of am I going to say something that tells you what to do and helps you feel more settled, at least temporarily, about it. And in a way, more connected with me. Or not, in which case, you might start to get more anxious and feel more at sea and also more . . . it’ll be hard to trust, in a way, what I said or where I was coming from. [00:09:04]
But I think there’s (ph) probably more than that. There’s probably something going on . . . in your relationship with Paul itself that is reflective . . . of this dynamic, somehow. And I’m . . . trying to get my head around it. I mean, the most obvious thing is . . . he himself puts you in that same position by being . . . determinedly indecisive and uncommunicative [chuckles] about . . . what he wants to be doing or what he thinks you should be doing . . . with the relationship. [00:10:27]
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: There’s (ph) probably more than that, but that’s the first thing that occurs to me.
CLIENT: Well, I guess, it’s what we talked about yesterday and I didn’t feel like—meaning he has all the control. [00:11:04] Yeah, I think it’s my way of [chuckles] trying to deal with in either trying, I don’t know, to ignore him. I don’t know. Get some control back or (inaudible at 00:11:26) in the other way. I don’t know. I don’t know. Make myself, I don’t know, vulnerable. But then, I don’t know.
THERAPIST: So, (inaudible at 00:11:45), let me make sure that I get it. So, it’s like he had—it feels like he has all the control because you feel unsure and anxious about what to do. And he’s also unreachable.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: And so, sometimes you try to manage the vulnerability there by saying, “Okay, we’re done.” [00:12:05]
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: And backing off a bit.
CLIENT: Right. Yeah. Just not engaging and—I don’t know. And then, I don’t know.
(pause)
THERAPIST: I imagine other times, you want to be close to him.
CLIENT: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then, I don’t know. I miss him and then—yeah. And then I give in or—I don’t know. Initiate or something. [00:13:01] But, again, I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m squirming or whatever. And I feel like, I don’t know, he just has control or—yeah, he—I don’t know. I don’t know.
(pause)
CLIENT: And it doesn’t seem like—I don’t know. Like anything will change or—I don’t know. Then, when I first—I mean, I said this to him a lot. And I mean, it’s always just, “I’m sorry.” [00:14:07] And then, he goes away for a little bit, then comes back, [I don’t know] (ph). I don’t know. Nothing ever gets processed or—it’s just the same.
(pause)
CLIENT: [I think] (ph) right now, I just feel like I want to be done with it, I don’t want to deal with it, I just . . . [I don’t know] (ph). I don’t know. [00:15:00] I don’t know. Remember this or to, I don’t know, stay strong (inaudible at 00:15:10).
(pause)
THERAPIST: I imagine it also . . . for the time that you’re with him, it feels less lonely, because you feel less lonely. [00:16:01] I think, also, in the moment, you probably have hope. Which I know is not how you see it now. I think the saddest part of the experience when you’re with him . . .
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, I’m also (inaudible at 00:16:31).
(pause)
THERAPIST: I also imagine that the back and forth with him . . . keeps you in touch with . . . sense of sadness and frustration that are very familiar from lots of other things. [00:17:21]
(pause)
CLIENT: Right. Yeah.
(pause)
[00:18:00]
(pause)
THERAPIST: I mean, that is related to what it can feel like here when it feels like this isn’t helping or we’re not really getting anywhere on the stuff that matters. Or I think probably also, at times, what it has felt like with Vicki, when she has been critical and you’re not sure whether she’s right or she’s being really unfair. [00:19:00]
CLIENT: Right. Yeah, I guess my—yeah. Emotional well-being is affected by, yeah, these interactions and—but . . .
(pause)
[00:20:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess it feels a little bit like a waiting game. Just wait it out or something, or . . . we’ll see if, I don’t know, anything comes of it or—I don’t know. [00:21:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. I mean, I guess it gets extremely, I don’t know, frustrating. [00:22:00] I don’t know. I don’t know.
THERAPIST: I have a sense you . . . feel three things, in particular, that you maybe you haven’t really said. Or at least I haven’t quite got yet. Wasn’t clear about. One is . . . you feel like there is potential. It could be really good. Or there could really be something there. And the other is that the person almost willfully seems to be . . . preventing that. [00:23:00]
You make very clear what you want, it just doesn’t—and the other person is like, “Hey, no,” for reasons that don’t really add up. Which, I guess, is the third piece, which is confusion. Why the hell can’t Paul just, in this case, be clearer or what is his problem? [laughs] Or get his act together? What is the matter with him?
But there’s this combination of the feeling hopeful, feeling like there’s potential. Second, that the other person seems willfully to be shutting things down or keeping you out. Then, third, that that’s confusing. [00:24:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I’m more hopeful that there’s some resolution. Not that we’ll live happily ever after or something, but there’s starting to be something like, I don’t know, satisfying regarding (ph), I don’t know, all this. And I guess I hold onto that, because I just—I don’t know. Yeah. Because I feel like I do—I don’t know. Push him away then I’ll feel like he’ll be out of my life, (inaudible at 00:25:00). [00:25:01] Yeah.
(pause)
CLIENT: I mean, I, in terms of why, I noticed he’s keeping me at a distance.
(pause)
CLIENT: I understand. I guess he says—I don’t know. I don’t know. He doesn’t feel like—I don’t know. I’m paraphrasing, but he’s like, “Life [doesn’t start yet].” He doesn’t want to get, I don’t know, involved in anything or—I don’t know. [00:26:04] One, I don’t really believe him. And two [chuckles] I don’t know.
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. It’s been so long. Nick and—I don’t know. I’m pretty much—I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:26:36) so it doesn’t make sense that—I don’t know. He’s keeping me at a distance and that—yeah.
THERAPIST: What do you mean, you’re always there? [00:27:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. Receptive if he contacts me or . . . I’ve never been mad at him whenever I discuss these things. [I don’t know] (ph). I’m never, I don’t know, forceful or mad or (inaudible at 00:27:36). I don’t know.
(pause)
CLIENT: I’m responsive and I care, I guess is (inaudible at 00:28:01). [00:28:01]
(pause)
[00:29:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know.
(pause)
CLIENT: I just don’t know. [00:30:00] I don’t know. Maybe I just need to deal with, I don’t know, ending it or just deal with that. But instead of wanting—I don’t know. Something like it or happier or something, [I don’t know] (ph).
THERAPIST: Did you say like it or happier?
CLIENT: Yeah. Instead of just . . .
(pause)
[00:31:00]
(pause)
THERAPIST: I wonder . . . if you might also be scared of something closer. [00:32:13] Because it would involve, in a way, actually maybe more situations in which . . . you felt . . . like this. Not necessarily about the relationship as a whole, exactly, but . . . about feeling like you weren’t getting through to the other person and they were keeping you at arm’s length where you had to make sense. And it was just frustrating and confusing and vulnerable.
(pause)
CLIENT: Maybe a little bit, because—I don’t know. I guess because when people ask, “Well, why don’t you want someone else or something else?” [00:34:00] I don’t know. I guess my answer is always—I don’t know. “I don’t feel ready,” or “I don’t know how to let go.” Yeah. It seems Paul’s, there’s—I don’t know. Still more stuff I want to do and be before—I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:34:30) getting messy or sleeping with someone else.
(pause)
[00:35:00]
(pause)
[00:36:00]
(pause)
THERAPIST: I guess another angle on that would be to say it feels too overwhelming and as though it would . . . really keep you from doing the things you want to do and being the ways you want to be. To be involved with somebody . . . in a closer way. [00:37:02] I’m not even saying that’s necessarily true, but it seems how it—your sense of it.
(pause)
CLIENT: Right. I guess it’s a distraction, but I don’t know.
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t think I would, I don’t know, go to the lengths of what Paul is doing to—[I don’t know] (ph).
THERAPIST: You mean you wouldn’t be like Paul is being with someone else. [00:38:03]
CLIENT: Right.
(pause)
THERAPIST: I think if you felt like you were doing that to someone—or being that way would make you feel bad and you’d want to stop. I mean, you would have no intention of doing that. If that’s what you mean. You wouldn’t want to be putting somebody in the position in which he’s putting you.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I wonder if there’s some more subtle way that you unconsciously do that. [00:39:00] I’m not sure.
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I’m just going to do the (inaudible at 00:39:33) move on or—I don’t know. And come up with, I don’t know, some kind of plan (inaudible at 00:39:46). I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:39:52) some or . . .
THERAPIST: I mean, to me, the toughest thing here seems to be the dynamic. [00:40:01] The reasons for which, in a way, he actually fits the bill well. Now, although it’s really very frustrating and upsetting and confusing.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I guess, to me, that . . . is the main thing. Although that does crop up elsewhere, so it’s important, but . . . I don’t believe that you feel like just as far as this situation, the most helpful way to deal with it is going to [be to] (ph) back away from it and strategize for how to handle it when you really lose him. [00:41:19] Then, you should do that.
(pause)
THERAPIST: I guess my point really is I’m not saying don’t do anything about this. Because there’s just a (inaudible at 00:41:47) and I think that’s the real problem. I don’t mean it like that. [00:42:00]
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know.
(pause)
THERAPIST: We should stop.
CLIENT: Yeah. [00:43:00]
THERAPIST: And I’ll see you on Tuesday.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Have a good weekend.
CLIENT: You, too.
THERAPIST: Thanks.
END TRANSCRIPT
