TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

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THERAPIST: Is that the –

CLIENT: 3rd and 4th.

THERAPIST: 3rd and 4th? Yeah.

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[00:01:00]

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CLIENT: I don’t know. And things have been going all right. (inaudible at 00:01:24)

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CLIENT: I mean, I’ve been I guess productive and working and—but I don’t know. I guess . . . I don’t know. [00:02:00] I guess it’s (inaudible at 00:02:01) just—I don’t know. The days are very similar and, I don’t know—I don’t know. Filled with these tasks that I push myself to do. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. There’s no, yeah, satisfaction or really for—I don’t know. Yeah. [00:03:00]

I don’t know. I guess I feel like I have—and I guess I feel the same way about, I don’t know, my brother or my mom. Like I’m not quite sure what I should be doing or working on. It’s just like waiting or (inaudible at 00:03:32).

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[00:04:00]

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CLIENT: So, yeah.

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THERAPIST: I imagine when you say you’re not quite sure what you should be doing, for example, about your mother and your brother . . . it reflects . . . you’re actually being distraught. [00:05:08] About what (inaudible at 00:05:16) about how things are going with both of them. And of different minds, of different times about . . . how to handle it or whose point of view is right.

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CLIENT: Right. [00:06:00] I don’t know. I guess I just don’t know . . . deal with it or—I don’t know. I also don’t really want to—I don’t know. Because I feel like there’s not much I can do or it’s messy or I don’t want to get—I don’t know. I don’t know, caught up in it. I don’t know. I also don’t want to feel like I can’t—I don’t know. [00:07:01] Think about it or—I don’t know. I don’t know. I put it off or don’t want to—I’d rather focus on other things.

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[00:08:00]

THERAPIST: So you’re . . . pretty where you’re at thinking about it, because . . . that would . . . slow (ph) you in way that . . . you were to spiral down through (ph) your day.

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[00:09:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess there’s just a big need to try to do something or to solve it or to want something. I don’t know, positive out of it. And I feel like I—I don’t know. If I think about it, then, I don’t know. I know that’s not possible or I know it’s just a waiting game. I don’t know. I don’t know. [00:10:00] I don’t know. I’m not sure what to do or—I don’t know. There’s not much I can do.

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THERAPIST: Well, maybe part of what you’re . . . getting at is . . . and I think probably what’s also very frightening is that you’ve mostly been (ph) talking about how much it’s bothering you.

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[00:11:00]

CLIENT: Right.

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THERAPIST: And then I think that maybe . . . start you make (inaudible at 00:11:30) between you and me (inaudible at 00:11:32) I thought you should be doing or were you feeling like you wanted to be or are your just complaining or does it make really exposed if you’re talking about how upset you are?

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[00:12:00]

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CLIENT: I don’t know. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Maybe (ph) it’s not right. Yeah.

CLIENT: I think it’s just like it all—everything, like work or—just everything becomes the same situation as how I feel about my brother. Just like there’s nothing I can do. There’s no relief (ph) but he just feels stuck. It seems like a—I don’t know. I don’t know. [00:13:00] I guess it fits the format of how I feel about—I don’t know. My brother.

THERAPIST: You’re going to see everything through that situation.

CLIENT: Right. It’s just an example of, I don’t know, the feeling of . . . I don’t know. Waiting, when I’m (ph) not sure what’s going to happen. Not very positive or—I don’t know. [00:14:00]

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THERAPIST: Yeah. My sense is that . . . watching to see if a car that’s teetering is going to fall off the edge of the cliff or not. And not being, “Well, can I get to it? Or do anything about it?” You have to watch it in this horrified way, I think.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And where thinking about it at once a reminder of your helplessness . . . and also . . . know what I’m looking for. [00:15:28] It . . . brings back the horror.

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[00:16:00]

CLIENT: Right.

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[00:17:00]

CLIENT: I guess I’m . . .

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CLIENT: I guess just don’t know how to make myself feel better about the situation. Or I don’t let it speak (ph) over other aspects or—I don’t know.

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[00:18:00]

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THERAPIST: I mean, I guess with the situation with your brother . . .

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THERAPIST: . . . I’m wondering what about it makes it so horrifying that if you start thinking about it, it threatens to overrun everything else. [00:19:00] I guess part of what you’re saying is actually clearly things are bad with your brother. And it’s really not good. And that’s just awful. But the way you’re describing things, it’s clearly—it’s not just what’s going on with your brother and how you feel about your brother.

And that I imagine you’re making analogies to thinking about stuff with your mom. Or even thinking about work. Do you know what I mean? That if you start focused on work and thinking about what’s difficult or upsetting there, I think you’re—probably what you’re saying—and tell me if this isn’t right—is that—you worry that would run away with you, too? Is that true? Or is that more the case with that stuff with your brother and your mom? [00:20:02]

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CLIENT: I guess if it’s all similar. With work stuff, it’s just—I don’t know. I don’t want to have to deal with it. I don’t deal with the people. I don’t want to. I’m tired of it. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. There’s no accomplishment or getting stuff done or, I don’t know, feeling good about something or (inaudible at 00:20:53). It’s just more and more. I don’t know. [00:21:02] I guess I mean—yeah, I feel the same way about—I don’t know. Yeah. There’s no solution. There’s no getting over the problem.

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THERAPIST: [I see] (ph). And the problem is, I think, that work feels miserable. A lot of stress, a lot of pressure, not satisfaction, no relief. No sense of accomplishment. [00:22:00]

CLIENT: I don’t know. I feel like it’s my fault, because—I don’t know.

THERAPIST: I understand. I don’t hear you saying, “Everybody else is being an asshole and just piling everything on you.” I mean, they may be, but that’s not [chuckles] what I hear you being upset about so much as more like the way work feels.

CLIENT: Right.

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THERAPIST: And so, in that case, you’re the car on the cliff, on the edge of the cliff.

CLIENT: Right. [00:23:00]

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THERAPIST: In a way, I guess you’re horrified about how things are with work for you. I mean, with how you feel about it and how you’re responding emotionally to work.

CLIENT: Right, because—I don’t know. I can’t . . . I don’t know. [00:24:03]

THERAPIST: Yeah, because you’re completely out of control of being able to feel any better or less anxious or—I mean, there, I guess, are some things you can do that help a little or make it a little worse (ph). That’s why you focus so much and work so hard. But you’re pretty helpless enough to hold the limit, as I understand it.

CLIENT: Right.

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[00:25:00]

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[00:26:00]

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CLIENT: The whole, I don’t know, again (ph) . . . I feel like there’s no moving past it or—can’t just—I don’t know. I just don’t know what to think or do to get a—I don’t know. [00:27:00] Make myself feel better about the situation or—I don’t know. I don’t know. I can’t [figure out] (ph) deal with it, other than (inaudible at 00:27:18).

THERAPIST: Well, I think where you’re stuck in the middle; we were talking about it last week is . . .

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THERAPIST: . . . I think you start with the premise that . . . seems plausible in the short-term, but in the long-term, doesn’t help. [00:28:05] Which is . . . it’s only upsetting and makes things worse . . . to focus on what this is like. And the way to help is to find some sort of strategy or action you can take to make it better.

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[00:29:00]

CLIENT: I always feel like, I don’t know, like I know what it feels like. I know its all-encompassing effects and all there is, is just there. I don’t know. I don’t know. I can’t just sit there or—I don’t know. I can’t just keep, I don’t know, waiting or—I don’t know.

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[00:30:00]

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CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:30:34) is that nothing changes. Things keep cropping up again and again. (crosstalk at 00:30:55)

THERAPIST: That seems to be the result of trying to find something to do about them, actually. [00:31:02]

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CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I feel like I never come up with the right thing. Like, with work, I haven’t changed my viewpoint. Everything’s the same, the way I go about it. I don’t know. With Stephen or—I don’t know. I have less control there and—I don’t know. [00:32:00]

THERAPIST: Well, I think with work, your viewpoint . . . is always, “I have to try more. I have to be more disciplined. I need to be able to work harder. I need distance myself from the people there more so (inaudible at 00:32:26).”

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CLIENT: Right, but, I don’t know. I can’t. I’m not disciplined enough to stick with it. [[I always] (ph), I don’t know, fail (ph).

THERAPIST: Right. I think that’s part of the reason why, too. And I think you have the idea that just recommitting yourself to it . . . will change that. [00:33:04] And it hasn’t worked like that.

CLIENT: Right, but . . . I don’t know.

THERAPIST: I think there’s a lot of that—I think a lot—that strategy is a lot geared towards . . . feeling safer, actually.

CLIENT: Right. There’s more control.

THERAPIST: Well, actually, I would say there’s more of a feeling of being in control.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:33:52)

THERAPIST: It actually hasn’t produced much control over what happens in the way that you want to have control over what happens. [00:34:01]

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THERAPIST: But I think that feeling of being in control, in the short-term, helps you feel much safer . . . from . . .

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THERAPIST: . . . the . . . dangers at work. [00:35:00]

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CLIENT: Right.

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CLIENT: I mean, I guess I just don’t know what else I can do. [00:36:01] Or not do. I can’t just not do anything. I can’t just not . . . rally myself to keep going.

THERAPIST: I think the problem isn’t—I know this is not going to make sense, but—at first, but if you’re mad, I will try to make it make sense. [chuckles] I don’t think the problem is choosing a course of action, really. I think the problem is pretending. Pretending that by approaching things in the way that you have and by essentially choosing the same course of action, you’re going to fix—not just (ph) fix things, but that you’re going to be able to protect yourself from how upset you are and how horrible you feel. [00:37:14]

I don’t think it’s so much as though . . . there’s three other courses of action you can take. And the point is to choose the right one. I think it’s more like . . .

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[00:38:00]

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THERAPIST: . . . like pretending there’s a course of action that you could take that would save you from what you’re—from how anxious you’re feeling. And how . . . overwhelming that is. And how . . . how much it can affect your functioning, at times.

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[00:39:00]

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[00:40:00]

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[00:41:00]

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THERAPIST: I think you’re usually in a place where most of us are usually seen as it’s . . . the stress starts out in situations with other people.

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CLIENT: I guess. [00:42:00]

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THERAPIST: I’m not sure, at the moment, you’re trying to figure out if you’re right or I’m right. Or are you just feeling like I’m not really getting it? Or if you’re just feeling overwhelmed and upset (ph) and confused or?

CLIENT: I guess I’m just feeling, I don’t know, I guess disarmed if I can’t . . . I don’t know, just push myself or keep everything straight. I know it parallels to deal. [00:43:03]

THERAPIST: It is how you dealt for so long. And I think so pervasively.

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THERAPIST: We have to stop.

CLIENT: I know.

THERAPIST: As I figured I would ask, did you hear about any interviews or?

CLIENT: I have one from Vanderbilt (ph).

THERAPIST: Congratulations.

CLIENT: Thanks. Thanks. On February 14th. [laughs]

THERAPIST: [laughs] That sounds very romantic. [laughs] [00:44:00]

CLIENT: So, yeah. I’m going on my (inaudible at 00:44:04) on the night of the 13th.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. And are you still waiting from anywhere?

CLIENT: Yeah. I’ve heard from three schools. I’m still waiting on another (ph) five.

THERAPIST: Who are you still waiting on?

CLIENT: Brown, Berkeley (ph), Tuft’s (ph). Who else? MIT. And (inaudible at 00:44:31).

THERAPIST: My fingers are still crossed. You hear any time or?

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:44:40)

THERAPIST: Could you hear any time?

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, I know Brown is a little bit later. The others are to be announced. So, we’ll see.

THERAPIST: I just figured I’d check.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: All right. See you tomorrow.

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:44:58) [00:45:00]

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