TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: [00:00:23] Just to say [ph], for after today, we’re next on for Wednesday?
CLIENT: Right, yeah.
[Silence from 00:00:27 to 00:01:05]
[00:01:00]
CLIENT: [Mumbles] [inaudible at 00:01:07]
[Silence from 00:01:08 to 00:01:38]
CLIENT: I guess I feel a little bit [pauses] better than yesterday, but I don’t really know why. And [pauses]… [00:02:00]
[Silence from 00:01:56 to 00:02:34]
CLIENT: Um, [pauses for 12 seconds] I just – yesterday, my American [ph] – I don’t know – all the people, like all that different stuff and – I don’t know – maybe I just got kind of distracted from… [00:03:00]
[Pauses for eight seconds] I don’t know – the things the things I was kind of dreading. Well, I guess, when I first got to work, Bryan was – he always [pauses] – he is always like, “Oh, we have this meeting next week. Are we going to get the data from the samples by then?” And I’m like, “No, I’ve literally just sent them, [chuckles] I had no idea we had a meeting.”
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: And then he is like, “Oh.” He doesn’t, like, blame me but he is like, “Oh, well, do everything you can to convince the company to process them quickly.”
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: I don’t know. [00:04:00]
So he always does this, and he does it to everyone, so it is kind of [inaudible at 00:04:05] – it is fine, but I don’t know – it just makes me so angry because – I feel like he is making me feel guilty or like I’m not doing my job or something. I don’t know.
[Silence from 00:04:24 to 00:04:47]
CLIENT: Um, [pauses]…
THERAPIST: Well, I think [clears throat]… [00:05:00]
[Pauses for eight seconds] I guess I [pauses for six seconds] – it seems a little complicated to me in that I imagine, to you, it feels [pauses] really unfair and kind of a set-up, in that you don’t know anything about the meeting, you had just sent the stuff off. It is not in your hands anymore. [Chuckles] You didn’t know you were supposed to do anything differently, and then he comes along and acts in a way that, I think, makes – yeah, it makes you feel like you’re doing something wrong or you’re too slow. [00:06:00]
And I guess – sorry, go ahead.
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: I think that, [pauses for five seconds] uh, [pauses for five seconds] there are [clears throat] reasons to think that [clears throat] some of that may be a kind of susceptibility on your part, to feeling like things are your fault. [Pauses for five seconds] I guess what I have in mind is that, as you said, you describe it to me, it doesn’t sound as though he is particularly blaming you. Clearly, he is frustrated – no question about that...
CLIENT: Mm-hmm. [00:07:00]
THERAPIST: …And he wants things to be different, but I’m not hearing him say anything specifically directed at you, or explicit about finding fault with you. And you say he does kind of do this to everybody, which I guess makes me think a little bit that he is not sort of singling you out in some way or necessarily imagining this is a pattern of yours. So [pauses] I get that you very much feel like he is saying it is your fault, that you’re kind of screwing up, and then, in light of how unfair that is, you get really mad. [00:08:06]
[Silence from 00:08:07 to 00:08:20]
CLIENT: Mm-hmm. I don’t know. I feel like I just kind of [pauses] – this happens all the time, where – in the last couple of months, he has had all these big projects that we’re doing for companies…
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm?
CLIENT: …And – yeah, so it is like, “We have a meeting next week. We have to do this,” and that makes me [inaudible at 00:08:50], “Well, I had no idea.”
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: And – so I feel like it is literally common [ph] and the thing is – I don’t know – there is no him [ph] [pauses] – working with me or trying to make my life easier to get the data back on time, and so just – it is always kind of like me pushing more.
THERAPIST: The ticking of the clock [ph] [inaudible at 00:09:35]…?
CLIENT: [inaudible at 00:09:38] [Loud taps]
THERAPIST: Very soft [ph]. [Chuckles]
CLIENT: [Chuckles] [Pauses] And [pauses] I don’t know. I guess… [00:10:00]
It just makes me feel guilty. I guess I could put it out quicker, but I don’t know so [ph] I could undo it. [inaudible at 00:10:13] I don’t even know. It ain’t [ph] forever, but I’m just doing it, so I’m worried that I’m not like completely rushed all the time. But…
THERAPIST: I guess the hard part is, in a way, [pauses for seven seconds] – I see the way he is taking no consideration of you and how he is just kind of complaining about the problem and not accounting for how you’re sort of doing your best, then, in effect, he is kind of blaming you for it.
CLIENT: Right. [Pauses] [00:11:00]
[Silence from 00:10:55 to 00:11:16]
THERAPIST: And he is doing it over and over.
CLIENT: [Faintly] Yeah.
THERAPIST: And you got sick of being blamed like that a while ago.
CLIENT: Right. [Pauses] [Sneezes a few times]
THERAPIST: Whoa. I thought we were all [ph] completely over this thing.
[Silence from 00:11:46 to 00:12:11]
[00:12:00]
CLIENT: [Sneezes again]
[Silence from 00:12:12 to 00:12:32]
CLIENT: I guess I’m just like – in the moment, I’m very mad, kind of.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm?
CLIENT: I don’t know. [Pauses] I’m feeling just guilty or like I’ve done something wrong, but…
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: There is not much I feel like I can do about it. I just… [00:13:02]
[Silence from 00:13:03 to 00:13:13]
THERAPIST: But, yeah, you feel sort of [pauses for 20 seconds] – I guess it is almost like his apparent thought that you’re to blame or it is your fault, [pauses] in a way, makes it true. And then there is – to one part of you; although, another part of you feels that is really unfair. [00:14:04]
I don’t think he even necessarily feels it is untrue I’m not sure about that but, certainly, it feels unfair.
CLIENT: [Faintly] Right.
[Silence from 00:14:14 to 00:14:24]
CLIENT: I don’t know. If – I just kind of want to do things to cause the least amount of problems. Then I feel like – but then I’m always pushed to one side [ph], like to get them out quicker and – but then I worry about doing them so quickly and – and then I realize how [ph] that I’m not doing them fast enough. But the deal [ph] is not going to be there on time, so… [Pauses] [00:15:00]
THERAPIST: [Clears throat]
CLIENT: I don’t know. So I’m always just [therapist blows nose] [inaudible at 00:15:06]…
THERAPIST: I’m sorry. Could you say that one more time? I was blowing my nose. [Chuckles]
CLIENT: [Chuckles]
THERAPIST: I’m sorry.
CLIENT: I’m just kind of like pushing me [ph] to either side, like I have to do it in a way that I’m not – where I worry about how quickly I’m doing it or – or that I’m kind of blamed for not doing it fast enough.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: So [pauses]…
[Silence from 00:15:41 to 00:16:01]
[00:16:00]
THERAPIST: It is like speed versus quality control?
CLIENT: Right. [Pauses]
[Silence from 00:16:06 to 00:16:40]
THERAPIST: [Clears throat] [Pauses] Well, and, [pauses] again, I think there is this dynamic there where [pauses]… [00:17:00]
…It seems to me that the a really very scary but, [pauses] in a way, maybe workable problem it seems more this psychological piece here, where [pauses] I would put the problem something like this – that even if he isn’t explicitly blaming you or telling you you’re doing a bad job, some part of you feels really quite convinced or, in a way, convicted, even that that is how he feels and that it is true… [00:18:02]
…And that it is enraging. [Pauses] But I think, considering what we’ve been seeing, what you – the problem you’re trying to work and which, in many cases, you can – but, in this one, it seems like you can’t, probably because it is impossible – is the sort of work flow or logistical problem, which is how can you [clears throat] get – do as good a job as you need to do with the samples and somehow get them out fast enough so that he has them when he wants them back from the company, I mean. [00:19:08]
[Silence from 00:19:09 to 00:19:32]
CLIENT: I don’t know. [Pauses]
[Silence from 00:19:34 to 00:20:27]
[00:20:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. I just – I just kind of feel like [pauses for 11 seconds]…
THERAPIST: And what are the battles [ph]? But go ahead.
CLIENT: Oh, it is just hard for me to…
THERAPIST: Uh-huh?
CLIENT: …I don’t know. The way it is at work – it is just hard for me to kind of, “All right, I’m just going to look at samples,” and then [therapist clears throat] [inaudible at 00:21:05] and one guy is [inaudible at 00:21:06] process them in a while. [00:21:07]
It is just like I have other projects and I get taken away and then come back, and I feel like – like the sample processing is kind of – just kind of like mindlessly tempt [ph] you, and when I have a free moment or whatever and – I don’t know – it is just kind of hard to do both and [pauses]…
[Silence from 00:21:43 to 00:22:06]
[00:22:00]
CLIENT: And I – I want to do it well, and I – it is hard to [pauses] do everything and kind of have enough energy or motivation to [pauses]…
[Silence from 00:22:25 to 00:22:58]
THERAPIST: I see. So this sort of contributes to your just feeling pretty overwhelmed.
CLIENT: Right. And how I’m not [pauses] – I don’t know [pauses] – I don’t know. [Pauses for eight seconds] Like, I’m not very good at managing anything. It is like the samples – like people just give me – I get sort of I don’t know what they are, and they have to enter information into the database, and I have to push them to do it; otherwise, I’m cross [ph] and then delete everything.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: So it is just like me having to push other people or get what I need, and I feel like it is just kind of [sighs] – I don’t know. A lot of things that I have to remember and think about… [00:24:00]
[Silence from 00:24:01 to 00:24:10]
THERAPIST: Kind of like the things you don’t like to do?
CLIENT: Right. I mean, I’m [inaudible at 00:24:17] to do this. I am saying to the person, “Well, give me a bunch of samples.” I’ll process them all, and then our bosses will be like, “Oh, I sent them five [ph].”
THERAPIST: [Chuckles]
CLIENT: And I was like, “Well, I just spent a couple of days…”
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But it is always like – I don’t know – so I get mad at people for not dealing with it, and then they’re always like pushing me because they want their data so they can…
THERAPIST: Uh-huh?
CLIENT: …So they can do their project. But then each – they both [ph] have something to do, so I can’t get to all of them. [00:25:02]
It is just – it is just like, for me, a balancing act between our lab or people in other labs, and my boss. So…
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: And even – even when my – the two bosses I have are like – just like, “So you [ph] sent them all [ph]?” and I’m like, “No.” [Chuckles]
THERAPIST: [Chuckles]
CLIENT: So…
THERAPIST: Well, it is pretty difficult to send them all and only half of them at the same time. [Chuckles]
CLIENT: [Chuckles] Right, and they don’t – they don’t like to talk to each other [inaudible at 00:25:40]…
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: …So it just gets – where it cuts [ph] in the middle and…
THERAPIST: Yeah.
[Silence from 00:25:48 to 00:25:56]
THERAPIST: Yeah, and the other thing that – I hear what you were saying before, which is [pauses] how… [00:26:06]
…Where you’re at isn’t really on anyone’s radar or under anyone’s consideration at all.
CLIENT: Right.
[Silence from 00:26:19 to 00:26:51]
[00:27:00]
CLIENT: I guess I just kind of feel like I need to [pauses] keep my energy or [pauses] like awareness or something that… [00:27:13]
Energy so I can kind of deal with these things and deal with the people, and awareness that this is kind of nuts, and it is not my fault. But – and so I always get so over – I just get angry at everything and I don’t want to do anything.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Yeah, that would be a lot easier, if you just – if it is – I know it doesn’t, but if, somehow, it did feel more like, “OK, these people are kind of [chuckles] impossible.”
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Or, “These people in the situation are kind of impossible. They want stuff that is contradictory or that I could never predict their demands, or” – and stuff like that. [00:28:04]
CLIENT: Right. [Pauses for five seconds] I guess I just kind of – when things kind of are done, I just feel guilty because I know I – I could have processed them quicker or, “Oh, I should have gone and talked to that person about pushing them to get the sample to me instead of tomorrow [ph],” or whatever.
[Silence from 00:28:31 to 00:28:41]
THERAPIST: I do wonder if there is a prevalence here where you tend to feel like I am pressuring you or have an expectation for you figuring things out or taking in things I say in a certain way, or understanding exactly what I mean and what to do about it. [00:29:02]
I guess that latter one probably seems the most on target. And so it feels like I have this idea of how you should take in what I have to say to you and what you should do with it, or how you should change based on that, probably right away.
[Silence from 00:29:20 to 00:29:29]
CLIENT: [Faintly] Yeah.
[Silence from 00:29:30 to 00:30:01]
[00:30:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I just get confused and then try to think of a [pauses] – a solution.
[Silence from 00:30:10 to 00:30:32]
THERAPIST: Like, there are times what I say, kind of on the surface, might make sense but it is kind of unclear what to do with it or…
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: …It kind of fits [ph] or something.
CLIENT: Oh.
THERAPIST: And a part of that, I guess, involves a feeling that [pauses] – I guess almost like Bryan, who seems to have this idea that you’re supposed to somehow know when he needs stuff or get it done quicker or something. [00:31:06]
Like, I – I think that what I say should just make sense, or these are obviously applicable in some way.
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know. [Pauses] I guess I kind of go to a place where I think if I – [pauses] I don’t know if I can think about this clearly and have energy, and whatever…
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Then if they don’t understand or kind of if there are [ph] words for it.
THERAPIST: I see. I don’t know if this helps but, for my part, I guess I imagine there will be things that I say that are clear and make more sense or feel like they fit better, other things that might make sense but then it is unclear what to do with them, and other things that God only knows what the hell I’m talking about. [Chuckles] [Pauses] And what I mean, if I don’t feel that [chuckles] way to you – I – and that [pauses] what makes sense and what doesn’t, what seems applicable and what doesn’t [pauses] help me to understand better where you’re coming from. Obviously, I don’t mean that I’m trying to say anything that doesn’t make sense or isn’t going to help, because that is not true; I am. [00:33:05]
But [pauses for five seconds] when it feels like it doesn’t or is just confusing or whatever, [pauses] that helps me guess at that I’m missing something? [Pauses]
[Silence from 00:33:35 to 00:33:46]
THERAPIST: Do you know what I mean?
CLIENT: Yeah. [Pauses] [Faintly] I guess. I don’t know [ph]. [00:33:56]
THERAPIST: Like, if I say something that I anticipate will make sense or be useful and it doesn’t or isn’t, that makes me think that there must be something about what we’re talking about or where you’re coming from on something that I have sort of not appreciated or not really got so well.
CLIENT: Right. Yeah, I guess it is just like I want to kind of restate it in a way that – kind of – well, that shows it is a kind of – I don’t know – the helplessness of feeling so that – I don’t know – that even – it is kind of like another way of you addressed that problem directly and not – it is not because… [00:35:03]
I don’t know. I’m being [ph] something more indirect or something that – I don’t know if that makes sense. Whatever you stated sort of – so that you can, yeah, directly address the problem that I’m feeling and not talk about something else that might carry it on or – it is kind of just another way of asking what do I do, I guess.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. [Pauses]
[Silence from 00:35:36 to 00:36:03]
[00:36:00]
THERAPIST: So there is a way in which you’re kind of getting back to what is troubling you, in what we’re talking about, and expressing your sense of helplessness about how to handle it.
CLIENT: Right.
[Silence from 00:36:21 to 00:38:03]
[Door closes]
[00:37:00]
[00:38:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess it is sort of a thing like me being [pauses] – me being negative or kind of [pauses] feelings of being stuck. Like, yeah, like it pricks [ph] [inaudible at 00:38:25] being productive, like kind of being motivated to do things that I know in a rational line [ph] would make me feel better. And I guess I kind of just want something to [pauses] prevent that from happening or [pauses] a way to kind of [pauses] not.
[00:39:04]
Just, basically, I have [ph] kind of an acute mind [ph] of taking your energy up and…
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: I don’t know. It is hard. And there are so many different factors that tend to crack [ph] down, but [pauses] I just – I think I just want like, “Oh, just remember this mantra.” [Chuckles]
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. [Chuckles]
[Silence from 00:39:34 to 00:40:02]
[00:40:00]
THERAPIST: I feel like, yeah, something you can hold onto, that will help you not get so frustrated or feel so overwhelmed, [pauses] kind of like to keep your head above water while you’re trying to deal with all that kind of crap from Bryan or whomever, that you’re talking about at work.
CLIENT: Right.
[Silence from 00:40:29 to 00:43:08]
[00:41:00]
[00:42:00]
[00:43:00]
CLIENT: I guess – yeah, it is just, to me, like I just don’t – I’m trying to find something that I can – that I can do or not do that would make me feel better or [pauses]…
[Silence from 00:43:29 to 00:43:54]
THERAPIST: So I’m not sure there is something as simple as a mantra [pauses] that will help. [00:44:02]
But I’m also aware that [pauses] it would be good if it were clear what would help in light of how frustrating and overwhelming these kinds of situations can be. [Pauses for four seconds] But we should stop.
[Door opens and closes]
END TRANSCRIPT
