TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I’m just kind of feeling the same as yesterday. I feel like at work, to be productive and doing a lot, it’s got to match up with [ ] (inaudible at 00:01:43), but I don’t know. I wish I could do things more calmly where I’m just not so affected by it. [00:02:06] I feel like it’s always like I either have to be wrapped up or where I don’t do anything at all. It’s always kind of in between. (pause) [00:03:11] I guess I just am fed up and not really feeling good about things and I don’t really know how to manage myself or slow down, but not so much that I’m not doing anything. [00:04:07] (long pause) I guess I just want change, but I feel like I’m unable to and am stuck, not able to let some things go. [00:05:12] (long pause) [00:06:26]
THERAPIST: Let me be clear. I don’t think you have bipolar disorder, otherwise I would have said something by now. But there are some features of what you’re describing that are a little like that in more of a psycho-dynamic and a kind of diagnostic sense. What I mean is I think that kind of amped up, energized state bears some resemblance to a mild manic state, in that I don’t think that’s what it actually is in a diagnostic sense, but I think it’s like that in that I think when you’re feeling that way, there is a collection of feelings and fantasies that go along with it. [00:07:11] I think you tend to have a fairly narrow focus, like you don’t let a lot in in terms of bad feelings or doubts, in a way. And I think it probably feels like there are no problems – or maybe there is only one problem, which is that something might not get done. I imagine that you sort of have to shut all of that other stuff out and have, I guess, some idea about yourself being able to kind of get through anything. [00:08:02] That’s sort of the mode that you’re in when you’re productive in that way, but it’s a little fragile or a little [ ] (inaudible at 00:08:18) and things pull you out of it – interactions with people, bad things happening – that kind of put you into that other mode where you’re feeling more overwhelmed, more stuck, not as motivated, but also it’s a much more inclusive mode in that you can feel worried about a variety of things. You can feel upset, confused, sad, lacking conviction – all these things that you can’t get in touch with really in the more energized mode.
CLIENT: I don’t know. Yeah. [00:09:04] (pause) I agree. (pause)
THERAPIST: I guess the reason I mention it is because I think, especially in the more productive mode, some of the fantasies that go along with it are not as obvious as when you’re in that. [00:10:22] For example, and maybe I’m wrong, but it doesn’t feel like you have limitations or it feels like a much less limiting mode. I think in some ways that’s true and in other ways it’s not true. (pause) [00:11:15]
CLIENT: I feel like either way, in either mode, there is this lack of enjoyment. It’s not like I should be enjoying everything [in the line of work] (ph?), but there is always this wanting more and I’m not sure how to do that. (pause) [00:12:27]
THERAPIST: I think when you get like that, you always feel very much on the line, like it’s a very performative way of being; and there is a lot of anxiety that goes with that which doesn’t have much to do with enjoying what you’re doing. (long pause) [00:13:45] [I guess I’m just thinking what I do because with my anxiety,] (ph?) I need that to remember things I have to do or to get me to do it. (pause) [00:14:48]
THERAPIST: I guess when you talk about it, it’s almost like the boss is right over your shoulder when you feel that way, like standing right over your shoulder – which makes it awfully easy to remember what it is that you have to do, but also feels, I think, intrusive and exposed. (pause) [00:15:58]
CLIENT: I don’t know. (pause)
THERAPIST: I know that I’m not really answering your question. I know that your question also comes from feeling, I think, that things are really quite intolerable.
CLIENT: Right. (pause) I guess I’m just kind of stuck on what to do or what to change. [00:17:00]
THERAPIST: Okay, so here is the moment then that I think you really want the same thing with me. I think you are probably feeling like close to coming apart in thinking about what we’re talking about and are sort of reaching for the same scenario, where I am then kind of over your shoulder saying, “Do this; do that. Here’s how you need to fix that,” because that is the thing that helps hold you together. [00:18:00] If I were to tell you that, it would be, I’m sure, such a relief.
CLIENT: Right. (pause) I don’t know. I guess I just kind of feel like I don’t want to keep doing the same thing, but I also feel like I’m just going to, like it’s inevitable. [But things are going to stay the same.] (ph?) (pause) [00:19:40]
THERAPIST: I guess you were also saying yesterday, although I don’t know if this applies now, that you feel as though you are wanting to go about this in a more childish way and I am wanting you to go about this in a more – and I’m thinking about this from your point of view now – mature emotion-facing way.
CLIENT: I just want a fix or something to hold onto when I’m feeling overwhelmed or beginning to so I’m not completely taken over by this feeling of anxiety and stress. [00:20:59] I guess I kind of feel like something else needs to happen or . . . I don’t know. (long pause) [00:22:21]
THERAPIST: I imagine that you feel me abandoning you and that’s also part of what makes you feel overwhelmed. (pause)
CLIENT: I’m not sure. (long pause) [00:24:12] I don’t know. It’s just kind of a hopeless feeling or nothing is ever enough. It doesn’t feel like what I would describe as abandonment. (pause)
THERAPIST: It’s more like you’re too needy and no one can help you. [00:25:09]
CLIENT: Right. (pause) [00:25:59]
THERAPIST: Maybe like you’re too far gone?
CLIENT: Right. I always feel like I’m missing something and I’m not sure why I can’t just direct the energy or motivation to fix it or be better or [good enough] (ph?) or kind of slow things down to enjoy them more. (pause) [00:27:20]
THERAPIST: Although, I think your feeling better is predicated on feeling, in this example, in a different relation to me in which I’m telling you what you need to do. (pause) [00:28:00]
CLIENT: I think it’s a temporary relief, kind of, so I have something else to focus on.
THERAPIST: Like it’s coping.
CLIENT: Right. [00:29:06] I guess what I’m kind of feeling is like I’m overwhelmed and not able to do very much. It’s like kind of a fantasy and it kind of helps me get motivated for the next day, but I don’t know if that’s not healthy or wrong. (pause) [00:30:07]
THERAPIST: My sense is that when you are feeling that way and you are moving and getting things done, it doesn’t feel like just coping, it feels like you’re more together and things are better in a way. I imagine that, even though you’re not feeling that way now, you’re enough in touch with what it’s like to know that when you’re feeling that way it doesn’t just feel like coping.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:32:20] I guess it’s like I don’t know what else to do. I feel like I have to do that, otherwise I won’t do anything. (pause) [00:33:08]
THERAPIST: I am clear that that is the mode in which you get things done and if you are not in that mode, you don’t; and that getting things done matters. (pause)
CLIENT: I guess the feeling is that if I’m not going to be productive, I’m not enough; I need to do more and I just don’t know. [00:34:06] It seems like the only way, if I’m coping with that feeling of being inadequate. I don’t know how else to deal with it. (pause)
THERAPIST: I guess I think it’s pretty inextricably linked to the relation in your mind with another person in relation to whom you feel inadequate and who can also give you hope or help you have hope that you could feel better. [00:35:31] So at work, feeling that, compared to what you need to do and maybe compared to what Bryan thinks you should be able to get done, you feel inadequate. I guess it’s probably your own judgment in a way, but I think also kind of in his eyes; but I don’t necessarily know he feels that way. Then I think when you feel him over your shoulder and feel like you’re very aware of and very focused on the things you need to get done, there is a kind of hope there that you’ll prove yourself or redeem yourself somewhat. [00:36:30] (long pause) [00:37:19] With me, I think it gets a little complicated because (long pause) . . . [00:38:45] I can’t quite put my finger on it. It’s something about, I think, feeling in here like the demand is sort of impossible or unclear from me. You’re just supposed to deal with this differently or be better about it or somehow not have the problem you are wanting help feeling with. Something like that.
CLIENT: [ ] (inaudible at 00:39:21) (pause) With work stuff, it just feels like if I can’t redeem myself I can’t work the way I want to be able to [ ] I should do it if I can do it and obviously I can. [00:40:14] I’m just trying to redeem myself or do it all over or [do much.] (ph?) (long pause) [00:41:40]
THERAPIST: [I see. So the redemption is impossible.] (ph?) (pause)
CLIENT: It’s like I’m not able to process, in terms of what we do in here, or deal with the things that are happening. As much as I might want to, it’s just kind of like everything I do kind of makes it worse. [00:42:37] (long pause) [00:44:36]
THERAPIST: I guess I am aware that often in talking about these things you feel more upset, at least in the moment, and confused. I wasn’t aware that it overall felt like it was making things worse. Is that true? (long pause) [00:45:32]
CLIENT: It’s just the feeling that things don’t change. (pause)
THERAPIST: It does seem to me that you are able to talk much more closely about this. I am not trying to argue that things are getting better if it doesn’t feel like they are getting better or that any of this stuff feels easy or like it makes a whole lot of sense. [00:46:26]
CLIENT: I think when I leave here everything kind of snaps back. I don’t process things. I just process things here. I don’t apply them and [ ] (inaudible at 00:46:59).
THERAPIST: Well we should stop for now. Good luck.
CLIENT: Thank you.
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