TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: $177.52.
THERAPIST: Thanks. (long pause) [00:03:04]
CLIENT: I feel like it’s going to be a little hectic, just because I have these experiments I’m doing with another assistant, Sophia, and she’s a little stubborn and possessive. (pause) We’ve worked together many times, but it’s very draining just to work with her. [00:04:02] I guess my point is I’m worried about being on top of things, but also not being consumed or tipping over. (long pause) [00:05:31] Other than that, I guess not much happened this weekend. I’m still kind of feeling I want a little space or room from people. [00:06:30] I don’t know if I’m just being stubborn or making a bad decision, just wanting to not do very much and [ ] (inaudible at 00:06:57). I guess I feel like I’m kind of wasting time or bad, like I should be out doing things. For some reason I feel like, in order to do the things that I want to be doing, having time and space for myself . . . (pause) [00:07:45]
THERAPIST: It sounds like you’re a little bit worried about the possibility of being consumed there, too.
CLIENT: Right. (pause) I think I talked about this last week, but with some of my friends I’ve said so much that I’m worrying about how I’m coming off or what they think of me. It’s easier to just to [take up space] (ph) or . . . I don’t know. (pause) [00:09:09] It doesn’t really seem like nothing really progresses into the state between . . . Sometimes Barbara and I are kind of okay and I don’t have to worry, but most of the time and with others, too, it’s always me worrying I need to do something or [ ] (inaudible at 00:09:48) where I feel like it’s okay or [ ]. (pause) [00:10:14] I guess I really don’t like feeling like I’m going back and forth between wanting distance or wanting their attention or support. (pause) [00:11:01]
THERAPIST: I’m surprised that you’re feeling that the balance there between you and me at the moment feels all right.
CLIENT: Right. (pause) I guess because it’s kind of established. [00:12:02] There’s more certainty. (long pause) The thing I’m hung up on is [I have enough to do to put] (ph?) these flimsy kinds of relationships where I feel like if I put myself out there and invest or really try to make it more, I’m more consumed or hurt or it takes over my life more than I want it to; where I feel like if I have distance I can have more control over myself, I guess. [00:14:02] (pause) I also don’t know if I’m just being dramatic or too needy or something. (pause) [00:14:58]
THERAPIST: I think I’m a little bit confused about something. The thing you’re hung up on is not to do with the flimsy relationships. Do you mean that what you’re feeling more hung up on is your own struggle – not the relationships, per se, but your own struggle around being able to invest without then being more consumed or more hurt than you want? Or have I misunderstood?
CLIENT: It’s kind of both. I’ve kind of noticed that I have these relationships and I don’t want them to be like this. I want them to be more secure and not so dependent or [ ] (inaudible at 00:15:56). [00:16:02] Also I guess I want – yeah – just security within myself and form a positive relationship, not this pushing and pulling or something. I’m guessing it’s me. I don’t think it’s other people. I don’t know. (pause) [00:17:33]
THERAPIST: I think I’m following that you’re sort of confused or wondering – I’m not saying that it’s largely about you – what is it about you that’s causing you to have this kind of trouble. (pause) [00:18:23]
CLIENT: I think there are multiple things. I guess there is always this feeling of needing to connect or needing . . .
THERAPIST: I want to be clear that I’m not saying that I necessarily see this as all on you, nor am I necessarily posing the question, but I’ll be interested in your thoughts, if that makes sense.
CLIENT: I’ve thought about it, but there is always something I don’t like, like it’s either not the way I want it to be or not progressing the way I want it to be. [00:19:28] [Everything that person does is like being with Marlowe] (ph?); it’s kind of wrong or dangerous and I want space or I don’t trust that person or there is a lot in that person that makes me worry about myself and kind of rattles me. [00:20:09] So either way I guess I’m not okay with how things are, but I don’t really know what to do to soothe it or find something in the middle. (pause) [00:20:32]
THERAPIST: I guess you feel very unsafe and the person kind of gets scary or intimidating in some fashion.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:22:52] I guess I’m just thinking about what I should do, if I should just let it be and not try to be so affected. [00:23:11] (pause)
THERAPIST: Maybe you think that if you do the right thing you’ll feel safer? (pause) [00:24:06]
CLIENT: Or more secure or not worrying so much about what that person is thinking or what is going on between us or trusting of them. (long pause) [00:26:04] I don’t know. (pause) [Like having Paul half around,] (ph?) it affects me a lot and I really don’t know what to do. [00:27:08] It makes me feel kind of insecure and almost crazy from thinking that, because I go back and forth between wanting a lot or wanting nothing at all. (pause) [00:28:06]
THERAPIST: It seems like you’re having a pretty hard time with him. I’m not saying a hard time compared to how it’s been before, but I think an insecure and kind of crazy feeling a lot.
CLIENT: Right. (pause) I don’t know. (long pause) [00:29:50] I guess I’m so confused by the situation it kind of makes me feel unsettled because I really don’t know what’s going on. I feel like I don’t have any say or any persuasion or power or control. It’s always me waiting or wondering or worrying and the idea of letting go or stopping responding or whatever, it’s kind of like willpower – I can do it for so long and then I fall apart or [ ] (inaudible at 00:31:20). [00:31:25] (long pause) [00:32:33] I really don’t know what to do. I’m just waiting. I’m kind of stuck waiting.
THERAPIST: I know you’re afraid of Paul and I know this aspect of your relationship with him, which has always been quite prominent, has been frustrating and crazy-making for quite a long time. I do wonder if there is also an aspect of that here, not [ ] (inaudible at 00:33:28) because certain ways I’m quite consistent and available in certain ways, but I imagine there is another sense where it’s hard to know where I’m coming from or what’s going on inside of me or, at another level, what I really think about what you’re saying or other things about you, where you can’t get in or I keep you out or you don’t or can’t know what’s going on. [00:34:13] I imagine that is how you feel a lot with Paul? (pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. A little. (pause) [00:35:03] With Paul, it always feels like he’s not allowing me to get out from under this or like I don’t have control; but here it’s more [ ] (inaudible at 00:35:29). It doesn’t feel that way, but I guess there is not clear direction. It’s not like I have this problem and I need to do this and this or something. [00:35:56] (pause) There is a part of it where I’m like okay, I’ll be vulnerable or at times I’ll be more stubborn or closed off and be like well, I’m just being ridiculous. I guess that’s the way I kind of treat him. I’ll be okay; I’ll be more vulnerable and then be like – no. [00:37:05] To myself I’ll be like I should [pressure him] (ph?) or allow him to do that, but it’s kind of like that here where I feel like I’m being ridiculous; I should muscle up or armor up, so there is a similarity. [00:37:54]
THERAPIST: So, in a sense, you mean responding to a kind of vulnerability in yourself by kind of closing off or getting stubborn?
CLIENT: Right. On both sides, it’s not like you’re telling me I’m being ridiculous or something, it’s just from me, like the lack of feedback or reassurance that I’m not being – or maybe you feel the same way or something like that. So I guess the switch is kind of internal from the [other side] (ph?). [00:39:09] (pause)
THERAPIST: I imagine it sort of feels to you like there is an opacity, that you and I are opaque –impenetrable is a bit of a dramatic way to put it, but closed off; or that that is sort of what you’re responding to in this dynamic.
CLIENT: Right. [00:40:03]
THERAPIST: Although I’m also clear that you sort of take it on yourself and feel like your response to that is that it’s all kind of problematic.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:42:08] I guess it’s kind of like I just feel ridiculous, like I’m kind of irrational or need to calm down or not be so needy or be someone who has problems with everything and just grow up or suck it up.
THERAPIST: Maybe there is something I don’t understand – I’m sure there are things that I don’t understand – but in the moment, things between you and he, what you’re referring to now, are you talking about this unwillingness to say anything about the . . . [00:43:17] I guess what I’m feeling uncertain about with him is his refusal to talk about how he feels about you or what he wants between you or where he sees it going; that would be one option. The other option would be something more like he just thinks things are kind of fine the way they are and he doesn’t see why you would need to talk more about stuff. He’s just fine letting things go as they’ve been going. Do you know what I mean? In the first version, it’s more like he’s actively keeping you out. [00:44:09] In the second version, he doesn’t really even see a problem, where you feel like there is a big problem and it’s something that’s not being discussed.
CLIENT: I think it’s more the latter where I’m aware of where he stands on things, but he kind of keeps toying with me. [00:45:05] That’s kind of the problem. I guess it keeps me around or hoping and he kind of has all the control. [He’s even kind of said that.] (ph?) (pause) [00:46:11]
THERAPIST: I see. So the parallel to in here – although clearly there are ways that it’s quite different – is that if you’re feeling we need to figure out what to do and what you can do in order to handle situations that are giving you trouble, it’s kind of like I don’t seem to feel the same need to figure out what the course of action should be; and that just leaves you hanging.
CLIENT: Right. Right.
THERAPIST: I see. [00:47:07] (long pause) [00:47:58] You feel like I’m in a very different place in terms of what we need and seem somehow to be able to feel secure with things or okay with things, in spite of your being in this anxious, hanging state where you really want to feel more grounded by knowing where things are at and what to do. That’s a little muddled, but something like that?
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:49:36]
THERAPIST: Then a part of what gets alienating for you is that most of the time, he or I aren’t exactly acknowledging that there is this big problem, which feels so imminent and overwhelming to you. So part of what makes you feel like it’s on you and there is something very much the matter with you is that it’s not something that Paul feels or I feel in the same way as you or even acknowledge in the same way.
CLIENT: Right. [00:50:28] (long pause) And the feeling that there is a problem makes me feel ridiculous or kind of makes me feel I’m creating it or that I need to not be vulnerable to this problem or I need to cut it off. [00:51:33] (long pause) [00:53:47]
THERAPIST: I’m thinking about it because I think there is a way that there is something else that sort of creeps into this, at least between you and I. And actually, I may be wrong, but I think that this is something that’s changed in you over time, over the months here. [00:54:51] I think often it seems more so to you that just because I don’t propose an action or feel that we need a strategy – I could still think there is a real problem. I just don’t think that . . . I’m getting a little garbled here, but I imagine that you feel more so that if I didn’t have a strategy or I didn’t see the need to do something, it meant I didn’t think there was really a problem. [00:55:50] Whereas I suspect you feel differently about that now and that if I don’t tell you what to do or even have ideas about what to do about something that’s giving you trouble, it leaves a little bit more room for maybe I still see that there is a problem, but what will help is something a little different.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Sometimes it kind of feels that way and sometimes it kind of feels like what the hell do I do now? (laughs)
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: We should stop for now.
END TRANSCRIPT
