TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
[00:01:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. I guess I’m feeling, I don’t know, like I need to be doing something in terms of improving. I don’t know. I don’t know. The things that bother me or I’ll be doing something sneaky. I don’t know. Not as anxious or something. I need to be in training or something or doing something. I don’t know. I guess I say that because—I don’t know. [00:02:02] Yeah. You can give me something to focus on or remind me—I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. When I get anxious and mad or something (inaudible at 00:02:23). I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:02:27)
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[00:03:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah. It’s hard for me to—I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. But go through things or go through my day without direction or purpose. I don’t know. It’s not that enjoyable to me or I don’t know how to—I don’t know. I don’t know. And yeah. [00:04:00]
(pause)
THERAPIST: I mean, it’s making me think of what you said yesterday about this not helping. And what you need instead or in addition is something you can hold onto in a different way. I don’t know. Do or practice when you’re feeling anxious or you’re feeling frustrated or upset. [00:05:00]
CLIENT: Right.
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know.
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CLIENT: I don’t know if it’s silly to think this, but I feel like I need to—I don’t know. I feel like I’m just every day just getting through and—I don’t know. I don’t know. There should be something I want out of the day or—I don’t know. Find tension or something because—I don’t know. [00:06:04] I don’t know. Being consumed and getting—my anxiety can come out as aimless, but just—I don’t know. It makes things worse and makes things—I don’t know. And I don’t know if it’s because I can’t enjoy myself. Or I don’t know what I want or—I don’t know. [00:07:00] Yeah.
(pause)
THERAPIST: I wonder if you’re feeling more adrift anticipating that you’ll be leaving Boston and leaving this (ph). [00:08:00]
CLIENT: Right. But I think I’m also just—I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s like the weeks go by and—I don’t know. Everything’s the same. And I feel like I can’t. Or something to ground me or slow down or—I don’t know. And even taking breaks or doing things like that, making them (inaudible at 00:08:52) or—I don’t know. I don’t know. [00:09:01] I should (inaudible at 00:09:06) more work or feel like more things to worry about or—oh, yeah.
(pause)
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I see everything that you have to do is its own little abandoned piece in a way that it’s not connected to something bigger. Or something that’s meaningful to you.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But it’s just some kind of separate task.
CLIENT: Right. [00:10:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know.
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CLIENT: I don’t know. [00:11:00] I guess there’s pride or accomplishment feeling out of anything. I don’t know. When moving’s done, it’s—I don’t know.
(pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah. I get a sense that it’s similar to just driving somewhere. Like, “Okay. I’m done driving. Now, I’m at this other thing.”
CLIENT: Right. [00:12:00]
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CLIENT: I mean, I don’t know if I—I don’t know. I’ve developed—I don’t know. Habit of—I don’t know. I don’t know. Removing myself from things. I don’t know. In terms of work or just a big fail that I’m not disappointed. Like, “All right. What do I do next?” I don’t know if it’s—yeah. [00:13:08] An extreme version of that or something. I’ll do the work but I don’t want any recognition or—I don’t know. Problems or . . .
(pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah. It reminds me a little bit of somebody who might be a consultant or an outside contractor. Rather than part of that actual team doing the work or part of the company.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Who does their thing, gets paid, and it’s done. But isn’t really part of things. [00:14:00]
CLIENT: Right.
(pause)
[00:15:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I’m just not sure what to do or how to do things or (inaudible at 00:15:16).
THERAPIST: Yeah. My sense is that this is—that you probably feel this way to some extent a lot of the time. But then, it’s a bit more extreme, more of it—more in the foreground now because of anticipating leaving. And it’s probably both true at work and here. That you feel more distant, more disconnected. [00:16:00] I think, also, quite a bit more anxious.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I don’t yet know how that all works.
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THERAPIST: It seems to me that’s likely what’s going on.
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[00:17:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know.
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[00:18:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know if—I don’t know. I don’t know. I still, at work or with some of my friends, I still want to push them away or I want—I don’t know. Well, I don’t want to be affected by them. Or I don’t want to worry about that or—and I don’t know. So, it’s like there’s a—I don’t know. [00:19:00] Yeah. It might be safer or something, that is also—I don’t know. A lack of joy or—I don’t know. I don’t know.
THERAPIST: I think you’re terrified.
CLIENT: But I don’t know of what.
THERAPIST: Well, it seems like it relates in some way to grad school. I know that this is there other times. I know this isn’t new. But it seems more so. [00:20:03]
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. To me, it seems like much more—I’m disappointed in my relationship. But I don’t know if it’s my fault or their fault. I (inaudible at 00:20:27) angry at things that happen. And I’m not sure—and I don’t want to be that way. Or I wish it was easier or—and—yeah. But I’m just like that or—yeah. And in the end, I just don’t want to deal with it anymore. [00:21:02]
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:21:08) your feeling isn’t so much of being—I guess anxiety or terror is part of it. But it’s more of you feel like you’re in these fights, really, or disagreements with the people around you. And you don’t know who to blame, them or you.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But it’s like you get sick of fighting and it feels pointless. And so, you just want to be done.
CLIENT: Right. [00:22:00]
(pause)
THERAPIST: And I would imagine that the disappointment and the anger is mostly to do with ways people aren’t there for you in how you want them to be. Like with me, it’s about you’re not feeling better. [00:23:07] Or having an easier time with things.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Which, I gather, it sometimes feels like it’s on me. And probably a lot of times, it feels like it’s on you.
(pause)
CLIENT: Right.
(pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. [00:24:00]
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CLIENT: I mean, yeah. I mean, I think I feel disappointed in—yeah. I don’t know. I mean, (inaudible at 00:24:34), I mean, I guess it’s a little bit different. Just everyone I’m close with. But yeah, in general, it’s just—I always feel like I should just—I’d rather not or I shouldn’t get involved. [00:25:00]
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[00:26:00]
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:26:02) what will make things worse, you might hurt the other person. I mean, or piss them off. Or do something that you feel guilty about. Or critical of yourself for.
CLIENT: Right. It’s mostly I just feel like a burden or—yeah.
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[00:27:00]
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CLIENT: But again, I guess I feel like—I don’t know. I’m seeing something or I should have an intention (inaudible at 00:27:54)—I don’t know. I don’t know. Something else should be there. [00:28:01]
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THERAPIST: When you say that you mostly feel like a burden, I assume you mean (inaudible at 00:28:56) that that I, for one, would really rather not deal with you. [00:29:02]
(pause)
CLIENT: Right. Or you feel obligated (inaudible at 00:29:18).
(pause)
THERAPIST: Well, I can see how—I mean, I can see where your wish to step back comes from. I mean, you’re talking about in very painful interactions, where everybody gets hurt. [00:30:06]
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I mean, to me, you’re a burden or an obligation, something I have to deal with and I’m a disappointment to you. And I’m not helping you to feel better. And also, our relationship is a source of confusion. (inaudible at 00:30:34) unclear. In some ways, I think you are very strong. You’re missing something, I’m not doing something right. But then again, sometimes, you also get mad at me.
(pause)
[00:31:00]
CLIENT: Right. I mean, I guess I feel like (inaudible at 00:31:13) on me. When I was (inaudible at 00:31:18) if I did something or—I don’t know.
(pause)
THERAPIST: Almost like there’s some kind of . . .
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[00:32:00]
THERAPIST: Oh, sorry. Is it getting sunny over there?
CLIENT: Yeah. A little bit.
THERAPIST: Okay. Did that (inaudible at 00:32:18)?
(pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah. I guess the memory that comes to my mind is somebody playing sports. I don’t know if this would apply in softball, but I’m thinking of soccer or probably football or I think track. [00:33:05] Without cleats in their shoes, like slipping or falling or not being able to start a turn fast enough or stop fast enough. And it just seems it’s easier for everybody else to do all that stuff. Or everybody has an advantage. And if you don’t know what you’re missing, it can be incredibly frustrating. Especially if, in a lot of other ways, it feels or looks like you have everything that everybody else has. Is it like that?
CLIENT: Right. But I think it’s—I don’t know. It feels like a confident (ph) thing, where everyone else—I don’t know. [00:34:01] Not so extreme of I think them—that someone’s right, that they just believe in themselves or, I mean, I don’t. I only look to a situation or a whim of—I don’t know what’s going on around me.
(pause)
CLIENT: Guess there’s no control or—I don’t know. Understanding or something. [00:35:00]
THERAPIST: What do you mean, control? I guess I’m not sure if you mean –
CLIENT: Say there’s a social interaction. And I’m (crosstalk at 00:35:15) –
THERAPIST: You mean control in the scientific sense of like, “I’m going to compare it to,” or, do you mean control colloquially? Being able to manage something.
CLIENT: Being able to manage something. I don’t know. For me, a social interaction will be like, “Well, I should’ve better. But maybe it’s not me. It’s them.” I’m just going to wind up ruminating about it, where other people would’ve been like, “Well, I was tired.” And let themself off the hook or something. I don’t know. A belief that they’re okay or something. [00:36:00]
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[00:37:00]
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CLIENT: I feel like I’m aware—I don’t know. What would be satisfying to them or what they want, or I’m just like—I don’t know.
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[00:38:00]
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THERAPIST: I had some thoughts. I was just trying to think of the way to (inaudible at 00:38:37) the subject. There are words (inaudible at 00:38:38) what I need.
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[00:39:00]
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[00:40:00]
THERAPIST: Okay. I mean, it’s a little complicated, but I guess—here’s what I have in mind. And here’s also I think it’s working at this moment, between you and me. And this is not the way I really do, but it’s a metaphor from graduate school. You know about IQ tests?
CLIENT: Mm-hmm.
THERAPIST: And do you know about how they’re—how the –
CLIENT: Took a Instagram or (inaudible at 00:40:38) thing. The scores?
THERAPIST: Right. There’s that, but there’s also—so, the composite score, the overall composite score is made—is in an aggregation of subtest scores. Unless they changed they changed it after grad (chuckles) school, but I don’t think so. There’s a verbal IQ and a performance IQ. [00:41:02] And each one of those is composed of two factors. So, verbal is verbal reasoning and I think—let’s see. There’s verbal reasoning, there’s processing speed. There’s visual-spatial reasoning. And there’s one other one that I’m forgetting at the moment. (inaudible at 00:41:23) efficiency of processing or something.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: And then, each of those are the aggregates of the individual subtest scores.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: So, there’s this whole –
CLIENT: Yeah. Okay.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:41:36) you know about that.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But you don’t report an overall score for an aggregate if the subscores are too disparate. So, if you’re testing somebody with a non-verbal learning disability or something, and they have 140 verbal IQ and 95 performance IQ, you don’t report the score as—of 125 or whatever. [00:42:09] Because that actually doesn’t meaningfully what’s going on.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: What you say is, “We’re not going to report an overall score. The overall score doesn’t really mean much,” because what’s really what’s going on is there’s these two very disparate scores and that’s because of an underlying problem and blah, blah, blah.
So, I’m reminded of that because it—I guess it seems to me that I think your experience is like that oftentimes, where you have these quite different and quite strong reactions to social situations. From different points of view or associate with different (inaudible at 00:43:03) about what’s going on. [00:43:04] And that, I think, makes your experience feel pretty fragmented and leaves you without a single or a cohesive opinion or point of view of what’s going on.
CLIENT: Right.
(pause)
THERAPIST: And yet, feeling a bunch of disparate things very intensely.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: And the way that I see us operating between you and me at the moment is that—on one hand, I think you want to answer from me about what’s going on or what you’re missing. [00:44:15] Or what you can do to make things better. And yet, I think, at the same time, whatever I say tends to become another fragment. [00:45:00] I mean, sometimes, I’m just wrong, and that’s a different (chuckles) story. That’s like it is what it is. But I think other times, it becomes another fragment that you then similarly have (inaudible at 00:45:18) reactions to. And that continues the same process.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Couldn’t be feeling any better than before. But I think oftentimes, instead similarly divided. Or in pieces.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: And I think it’s similar if I say something rather than it’s more like an answer or more like interpretation or opinion that’s focused on what your experience is like. [00:46:08] Or elaborated or it seemed clear that hopefully I’ve understood something about it, what you’re describing or that—I guess that’s helpful in a way, if it communicates that I’m on the same page. But, again, I think maybe (inaudible at 00:46:30) response is a bit fragmented in that it also doesn’t, then, give you an answer. So, I guess I’m laying out what it seems to me you’re struggling with or what’s going on. We’re actually (inaudible at 00:46:54). [00:47:00]
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