TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
[00:01:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. Not much is going on (inaudible at 00:01:19).
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CLIENT: Yeah. I’m not doing it—I don’t know. Something was very relaxed or (inaudible at 00:01:51) or work or anything like (crosstalk at 00:01:53). [00:02:00]
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CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I guess I feel a little—I don’t know. I don’t know. Aimless going to my week (inaudible at 00:02:35). I have experiments planned and some things I need to do, but I don’t know. I guess I feel—I don’t know. [00:03:00] (inaudible at 00:03:02) I don’t know. Uncertain or not really—I don’t know. Ready, I guess.
THERAPIST: Did you say “not ready”?
CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t know if I need to prepare myself or—I don’t know. I don’t know. Get myself up for the week or something. But I don’t know.
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[00:04:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know.
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I talked to my mom yesterday and (crosstalk at 00:05:00). [00:05:00] I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. She’s being very, as always, passive. And it annoys me. In terms of—I don’t know. She sent me an e-mail, “What’s going on?” (inaudible at 00:05:25) Why can’t you just call me? I don’t know. She’s afraid to call me or something and—I don’t know. I asked her and she’s like, “Well, I just don’t want to bother you.” And I was like—I don’t know. It seems very—I don’t know. I never say they bother me. If you want to know what’s going on, if you want to talk to me, [you can] (ph) call me. I don’t know. I just don’t have a lot to say. It’s like I tell her, (crosstalk at 00:05:56) I might come off as—I don’t know. [00:06:00] Being bothered but honestly, I just don’t have much to say about it. I don’t know. And I don’t know.
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CLIENT: So, yeah. I don’t know. Discussed options of moving and stuff like that.
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[00:07:00]
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CLIENT: Let’s see.
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[00:08:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. [I don’t know] (ph). I guess I’m not really thinking about very much. I just (inaudible at 00:08:14).
THERAPIST: Sorry. Just what?
CLIENT: I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. Waiting, I guess, for—I don’t know. Things (inaudible at 00:08:32) are (inaudible at 00:08:37). I don’t know. My day to—I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:08:49) stressing out or charge me or something. I don’t know. But yeah. [00:09:00] And let’s see.
THERAPIST: I can imagine it’s either mildly frustrating or that (ph) it would just be nice if I helped to structure things here a little more, give you something to focus on or think about.
CLIENT: I guess.
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CLIENT: I guess I mean nothing’s really—yeah. [00:10:03] Bothering me that much and (inaudible at 00:10:06). Or it’s like listing (ph)—I don’t know. Worries of the week. I want to be productive and not too stressed out or—I don’t know. Same (ph) stuff, so, I don’t know.
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[00:11:00]
THERAPIST: Well, and I guess without that, that something that’s stressful or (inaudible at 00:11:26) you, it’s unclear what you want to talk about.
CLIENT: Right.
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CLIENT: I don’t know. [00:12:00] I don’t know. I guess I’ll—I don’t know. Talk about—yeah. I mean, I guess I just (inaudible at 00:12:12) something to talk about. Yeah. Something that’s bothering me or—I don’t know. A problem I’m having (inaudible at 00:12:22).
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[00:13:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know if I have—I don’t know. Let myself off the hook or—I don’t know. I feel like—I don’t know. I should be more prepared or have—I don’t know. Intentions or goals or something to—I don’t know. [00:14:05] Work towards during the week or what (ph).
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CLIENT: I guess I’m just not—I don’t know. Feeling—I don’t know. Motivated or nothing’s really—I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:14:39)
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CLIENT: I don’t know. [00:15:00]
THERAPIST: [In a way] (ph), I guess it seems like a love-hate relationship with having something like that to focus on. And that I guess, in a way, stress itself doesn’t feel good. Or if there’s something really bothering you at the same time, it does provide focus and having a thing to talk about and a sense of purpose, I guess.
CLIENT: Right.
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[00:16:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, otherwise, I’m just—I don’t know. I don’t know. Sleepwalking through my week. Or not really. I don’t know. I don’t know. It doesn’t feel like living. It just feels like going to work, (inaudible at 00:16:26). And then, I don’t know.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:16:43) in a way that it’s like if you’re not feeling that and if I don’t provide that, in a way, it’s like I’m hardly here, I think. [00:17:00]
CLIENT: Right.
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CLIENT: I don’t know.
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CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, even though I’m doing things or—I don’t know. Outside of work or—I don’t know. It always feels like—I don’t know. Like I’m unprepared and I’m showing up to a meeting or I don’t know where—what anything’s about, I’m just . . . [00:18:00]
(pause)
THERAPIST: So, you’re (inaudible at 00:18:31) unprepared and adrift. And I guess not just that. I think, also, it seems feeling like a little bit of anxiety or agitation about not being more prepared, maybe. And the other person, if it’s me, it just feels opaque (ph) and distant.
CLIENT: Right. [00:19:00]
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CLIENT: Yeah. So, on Saturday night, I was hanging out with Tamala. And so, her twin sister went to Dartmouth. And so, I was talking to her sister. And (inaudible at 00:19:26) we were talking about Dartmouth. And all these different people (inaudible at 00:19:31). We have the same major, as well. Different professors, but—I don’t know. It was hard to even remember anything (chuckles) about Dartmouth. She kept saying things and—yeah. (inaudible at 00:19:44) like, “Oh, God. I haven’t thought about this in so long.” Yeah. [I wasn’t] (ph) very contributing very much or—yeah. It was just like I feel—I don’t know. [00:20:02] Not very coherent or something, like—I don’t know. Cloudy thought process or something (inaudible at 00:20:16).
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I feel like it’s hard for me to contribute. Or not just be an observer. To have a good time or something. Yeah. [00:21:00]
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THERAPIST: Yeah. It seems like college, for whatever reason, feels—at least, in the conversation, felt remote. And you felt disengaged from it. I guess in the same way that the conversation felt remote and hard to engage with.
CLIENT: Right. [00:22:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know.
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THERAPIST: I wonder if that’s partly because you worry about how the other person will react. [00:23:07] Or how you will react if you get into what it really was like.
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know. I don’t know if it just seems like I just don’t care about (inaudible at 00:23:30). Because it’s hard for me to remember. Or I don’t really engage and—I don’t know. Give more context [to the] (ph) conversation or something. Or content. And I don’t know. [00:24:00]
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CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t know.
THERAPIST: Do you mean, when you [tell me] (ph) it’s like you don’t really care about it, do you mean that you cross—you are coming across that way to the other person? Or do you mean you, internally, maybe really don’t care about it?
CLIENT: I guess more worried how I’m coming across, because, I mean—but I don’t—I mean, I guess you could argue that I don’t care, because I don’t really do anything. [00:25:00] Or show actions that I do care, something like—I don’t know.
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CLIENT: I don’t know if this is—and—I don’t know. Another example would be—I don’t know. Raul, my roommate. Likes (inaudible at 00:25:32) a lot of people or the other day. And they’re off (inaudible at 00:25:35). And I’m talking about how the school’s changed, blah, blah, blah and—I don’t know. (inaudible at 00:25:47) this guy and he’s like—I don’t know. There’s this end-of-the-year for gradation, (inaudible at 00:25:55) campus dance. And all alumni are invited. And he’s like, “Are you going?” And I’m like, “No.” [00:26:00] And, (chuckles) “Do you go to any alumni events?” And I’m like, “No.” (chuckles) I don’t know. I don’t know. “Did you even go to Dartmouth?” (chuckles) I don’t know. I don’t know. It was the feeling of I guess—I don’t know. I don’t invest myself or something or—I don’t know. And make an effort. I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah. But (inaudible at 00:26:45) coming away (inaudible at 00:26:46).
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[00:27:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know. And I don’t know. I feel that way about work. When things don’t work out, yeah, it’s frustrating or something. But I more care that it’s frustrating someone else than frustrating myself or me. Or I feel more stress when it’s someone else’s samples or—I don’t know. And when it’s my own, I’m like, “Oh, whatever.” Just (inaudible at 00:27:52). I don’t know. [00:28:00] I don’t know. So, I don’t know if it’s . . .
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CLIENT: . . . (inaudible at 00:28:21).
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THERAPIST: And [one of the ways] (ph) this comes up in here is that you’re feeling, now, worried about how doing you’re here. Or maybe to be (inaudible at 00:29:08) start producing the right data for me. [00:29:11] And that maybe, at times, like today, where you’re not as sure of what to talk about that you get organized around things like that. Like worrying about . . .
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THERAPIST: . . . whether you’re doing right by me here. Or whether I’m—you’re giving me enough to work with. [00:30:01] Or the right things to work with. Or something like that.
CLIENT: Right.
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CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s only a feeling for having something I guess in particular to talk about or—I don’t know. At least, it feels more productive. [00:31:01] Or I just have a—I don’t know. Subject to talk about.
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THERAPIST: Well, I think in a certain way, in your mind, it actually brings us a little closer together.
CLIENT: Right.
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[00:32:00]
THERAPIST: But I guess, also, in that mix, (inaudible at 00:32:11) way in that you feel or project a certain expectation or demand of you onto me. Which is—clarifies, in a way, where I am or where I’m coming from. And my interest in you. But also, makes you worried about accommodating to it. [00:33:00]
CLIENT: Right.
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I feel like—I don’t know. I should be more active or—have a thing. Have a list of things to (inaudible at 00:33:52) me or (inaudible at 00:33:53) I need to work or (inaudible at 00:33:55).
THERAPIST: Yeah. I think there’s a subtle way which how—what I just said. (inaudible at 00:34:02) me, and so, it probably sounded like I was saying you weren’t doing something quite right. [00:34:06] Sorry. I know I’m interrupting you, I just –
CLIENT: No. No. I was just—I don’t know. Thinking about—I don’t know. Maybe that I’m doing the same thing to Vicki or something, but (ph) when I talk about coming here or something, and she (inaudible at 00:34:37)—I don’t know. Maybe I did the same thing. Like, “Well, what do you talk about? What do you—I don’t know. Do, or whatever?” So, it’s like maybe this healing is—I need to have direction or goals or something or—yeah. [00:35:00] Because like I said, this—it’s hard for me to explain—I don’t know. What goes on.
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THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:35:33) lonely.
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CLIENT: I don’t know. Not really. [00:36:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know. Because if I can—I don’t know. Understand or (inaudible at 00:36:22) it or something. But I don’t know.
THERAPIST: You mean, you can understand your own experience?
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Or what you do convey implicitly gets across to the person what it’s like?
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CLIENT: Right. [00:37:00]
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THERAPIST: And that does feel more effective?
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CLIENT: No. I mean, I guess—sorry, I’m—I don’t feel—I don’t know. I don’t really know if they get it. It just feels like I should be doing more. I should be active or whatever and—but I’m just—I’m thinking I don’t feel lonely, because I get it. I mean, I can’t directly voice it or explain it (inaudible at 00:38:08). [00:38:09] Yeah (ph). There’s something (inaudible at 00:38:22), something or what’s going on or (inaudible at 00:38:27).
(pause)
[00:39:00]
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CLIENT: I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t really want to talk about it with Vicki or whatever, because it does seem like I’m—the way I talk about it does seem like I’m not very organized or—I don’t know. [00:40:01] I don’t know. Taking advantage or something. I don’t know.
(pause)
THERAPIST: I see. So, the issue isn’t so much that you wish you could convey it or get it across in some way that (inaudible at 00:40:32) the other person or something. It’s more (inaudible at 00:40:37) if you know. And you don’t anticipate it will go well, but that it will make you feel bad if you try to convey or communicate it.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: So, it’s not so much lonely as it is—if you get it and you are in control, how much (inaudible at 00:41:01) or, in a way, how to convey it. [00:41:02] That’s not a bad place to be.
CLIENT: Right. Or it makes me feel like worse. I don’t know. Not that I don’t—or I don’t know. But I don’t think they get it. Or I’m projecting this—I’m not—I don’t know. Doing enough. And then, that, like I said, makes me feel worse. [I’d rather] (ph) just not talk about it or . . .
THERAPIST: Yep. That’s the bad situation, if you try to put it there. Or are in the process of talking about it. And it’s collapsing or something.
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know. [00:42:00] This is how I feel about a lot of things. And so, I don’t like teaching, because I feel like I’m not good at explaining how I understand things or something (crosstalk at 00:42:09). Same thing. I don’t know.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Or, at times, talking about things that are upsetting you.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I guess it’s similarly my sense that you feel like often, it doesn’t go well, and it makes you more upset.
CLIENT: Right.
(pause)
[00:43:00]
THERAPIST: Okay. Well, let me stop, for now.
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