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THERAPIST: It must be sunny.
CLIENT: Yep, it is. (long pause) [00:01:13] I guess I’m feeling the same in terms of not too much is on my mind. I’m just wanting to be productive and wanting to be working on something and progressing. [00:02:01] (long pause) [00:03:13] I guess I kind of feel like I’m working towards something, in terms of making myself better, happier with myself. [00:04:03] I guess it’s kind of easier than not doing anything or letting them kind of affect me. I really don’t know another way of dealing with them or kind of . . .
THERAPIST: I’m a little confused. I follow that you seem to be working towards something and making yourself better and happier with yourself. [00:05:08] I got it, I think, when you said this might be easier than not doing anything. But when you said letting them affect you, I wasn’t sure what “them” was.
CLIENT: In general, worries and emotions. (inaudible at 00:05:43) feel down or kind of unsettled. (long pause) [00:06:53] I guess I still don’t know how to deal with these things or I don’t know why I feel them. I just feel angry or upset that I have to deal with it. [00:08:05] It’s just another thing to do. (long pause) [00:08:36]
THERAPIST: I think another task, in a way, that feels intrusive and overwhelming? (pause)
CLIENT: Right. [00:09:03] Again, I don’t know what I would do. I don’t have any solutions. (long pause) [00:10:21] I guess the feeling is being anxious. I’m thinking about what’s causing this or what’s upsetting me and it seems like everything is. I just want to do things better and have more energy or something like that. It’s not clear. [00:11:00] (inaudible at 00:11:05) (pause)
THERAPIST: I’m not sure what happened, but yesterday I think you seemed a little clearer about being upset by everything you do involving a fight. [00:12:02]
CLIENT: Right, [but why does it feel that way?] (ph?)
THERAPIST: So it’s only a partial explanation?
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:12:55] It’s kind of like why can’t I enjoy things or like something or . . . I don’t know . . . have a sense of accomplishment or something about doing things. (pause) [00:14:01]
THERAPIST: Part of the sense of there being a fight, I think, is feeling always under an overwhelming and very intrusive demand. (pause)
CLIENT: I’m not sure.
THERAPIST: I guess I think that’s what you’re generally fighting against. [00:15:02] (pause)
CLIENT: I’m not sure. Maybe. I don’t know. (pause) [00:15:50] To me it always seems that I’m always disappointed with what I’m doing or the outcome or maybe demands are intrusive because I know I’m going to fail and do it the way I wanted. (pause)
THERAPIST: I guess part of what I mean about them being intrusive is that, on an emotional level, you have no distance from them to be able to question them. What I have in mind is when you feel like there is something that you have to do, there is no questioning how well it has to be done for you not to be disappointed in yourself or how much pressure you feel to do it and its importance. [00:17:57] I know at another level you can think that way – prioritize things differently or spend a different amount of time on things. I get that. I’m thinking something a little more like it’s a weekend and you feel like lounging around, let’s say, but you also feel a demand to be doing things – exercising or organizing your stuff or whatever – that, in a way, there is really no reckoning with that demand. You can choose not to do that stuff, but it will feel really bad. You can think, “I should just be able to take it easy this morning. I’ve worked all week. I’m tired,” or this or that; but in some more important way I think you are really subject to the demand. [00:19:07] That is sort of what I’m thinking. Does that make sense?
CLIENT: Right. To me it seems to be that I’m more upset that what I’m doing – whatever – it’s just disappointing. It’s not enough to make me feel better or feel some kind of relief. [00:20:01] The demand is there to put in suggestions of feeling productive or not being disappointed in myself, but then I’m torn because I can’t be happy with just – whatever – lounging around. [00:20:49]
THERAPIST: I see. So you’re seeing the demand as more inspirational in a way to get you to do something that will make you feel better and I’m seeing that that is more a part of the problem in that, if you didn’t feel lit, maybe you would feel better and relax more, lounging around. I’m not, at the moment, going to argue that I’m right and you’re wrong.
CLIENT: I think you’re right, but there is something else there – just not being okay with lounging around or I’m just needing to be more and maybe the demand is something I’m building upon, the feeling of being disappointed. [00:22:13] I should be doing those things, but I feel like I’m needing things and just not being okay with whatever I’m doing.
THERAPIST: I see. (pause) [00:22:58] I agree with that – that that’s the main place that hurts.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:24:49]
THERAPIST: I think it’s also what you get so angry about, like this oppressive sense that it’s never enough.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:25:53] I don’t really know what to do, but it’s just something that I’m caught in or something. I can’t produce; I can’t do work at the level I want. (long pause) [00:27:43]
THERAPIST: I guess what’s coming to my mind is it’s kind of like there is a gun to your head all the time. (long pause)
CLIENT: Maybe, but I don’t know. (pause) [00:29:03] I feel like I would be more satisfied if I enjoyed things or wanted to do things. I just feel passive or something and not very active or something. I should be doing more or I should be . . . (pause) [00:29:55] I guess I’m just disappointed in the outcome or disappointed in myself that I don’t do things better. (long pause) [00:31:57]
THERAPIST: I guess there is some of the tension right there. (pause)
CLIENT: I guess. Yeah. (long pause) It kind of seems like – I forget the exact term – it was learned helplessness, like mice or something, shocking me or kind of disappointing, so I don’t want to do anything. [00:32:56] (long pause) [00:34:34]
THERAPIST: I wonder if, at the moment, the kind of activity that you’re trying to do is to question or to get some traction on this whole dynamic that we’re talking about. I guess that’s why I would expect you feel a sense of disappointment, like there is nothing clear to do about it, no evident way to handle it or make it better; and that’s very disappointing and that’s kind of the shock. [00:35:22] That also puts you into this more passive mode or makes you feel quite helpless and like you probably shouldn’t even try because look what happens.
CLIENT: Right. Or I was thinking it could also explain why things feel controlled or requests or things feel intrusive. (pause) [00:36:54]
THERAPIST: Because you’re kind of trying to protect yourself from the disappointment?
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:38:45] Maybe it’s just an unwillingness to try things or be more (inaudible at 00:38:57) or something. (long pause) [00:40:44]
THERAPIST: Do you mean that that partly explains why you always feel so disappointed in this painful way because, in a way, that’s kind of a way of keeping yourself from trying things? (pause)
CLIENT: Maybe. I was talking more about just being afraid or scared or something so I don’t try things or I’m conditioned not to be normal. [00:41:46] It may be a little bit what you said, too. (long pause)
THERAPIST: We should stop for now.
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