TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I guess [pause] I guess I’ve just kind of been thinking about again, yes, kind of what I can do to make things kind of easier, kind of not as, or cover what I should do about this everyday kind of feeling of being tired and not really wanting to be engaged or be I guess more specifically I guess kind of just what I should do because it always feels like I’m pushing myself or making some kind of, making myself anxious thinking I have to do this or I should be doing this. [00:03:23]
So I guess I was just thinking of what I could do to make it feel like, yes, less of a fight or kind of wanting to do these things [pause] or not kind of going into highly emotive, just doing a bunch of things and not really seeing too much outside of what I’m doing or wanting to be bothered, whatever. [00:04:54]
[Pause]
And I guess I just -
THERAPIST: What you’re talking about is sort of questioning and thinking about what to do about it rather than more like succumbing to it? [00:05:42]
CLIENT: Right. [Pause] So the things I could think of that would help or, I don’t know, but they’re very vague and broad. Just kind of sift like how things are when I’m tired or that I don’t like something instead of always fighting it or I don’t know trusting myself more or being more grateful or something. [00:07:32]
But I don’t know. [Pause] It seems like any of it kind of figure out what I want and stick to it or I don’t know. [00:08:42]
THERAPIST: What you want in terms of plans?
CLIENT: Right. But I don’t know [pause] it seems doubtful because I’m sidetracked or it’s always tough [pause] or I’m easily persuaded else-wise (ph). [00:09:47]
[Pause]
THERAPIST: Well I imagine that there are things that would potentially make you anxious about the things you mentioned trying. I guess something yields a kind of passivity that would go along with accepting for example being tired rather than and [inaudible at 00:10:57] said or worried that in trusting yourself you’d be making some kind of mistake or that you had it wrong. [Pause] I’m not saying not to do it; I’m just saying that might relate to the kind of dynamics [around it] (ph). [00:11:58]
CLIENT: I’m extremely skeptical but I feel like I need to do something. I need to, I don’t know, yes kind of get outside my comfort zone or push or something like that. But [pause] yes, I don’t know. I really don’t know what to do or even how to kind of view the problem in terms of I just need to change my perspective or do I need to change, I don’t know, something I’m doing or not doing? I don’t know. [00:13:54]
THERAPIST: Well I actually it seems possible that it’s actually a pretty interesting moment. It seems to me that you are questioning the way you’ve been going about things and you’re a little bit you’re questioning the paradigm in a way that I think you kind of haven’t quite before. I mean you’ve been frustrated with it, you’ve wanted to get rid of it but I guess it seems to me like your angle on it is a bit different now. [00:15:13]
And yet I think I think you’re also feeling perhaps very anxious for not having a new one. And the new one would sort of further help you to dismantle the old one. I do think partly you’re looking to me for that. There’s a sort of what sounds to me I think like a kind of a pitch of anxiety that you’re feeling where you’re wanting from me some suggestions about how to work against the way things have been working that’s been so difficult. [00:16:19]
And I think that’s a very anxious, that’s a scary thing to do. So this is the way I’ve been doing things, I can feel a little more how it’s not working, I’m trying to think of ways to kind of struggle against it or resist it or handle things in a different way but I don’t have one yet. And it makes me think of [pause] an analogy that’s about as usual (ph) for me like a hermit crab between shells kind of or something like that. Between them but maybe can’t get out from under one and wondering where the next one’s going to be. [00:17:36]
[Pause]
CLIENT: Maybe. [Pause] I mean [pause] I guess I need, I don’t know, the shell analogy makes it sound like I shouldn’t [just connect] (ph) with another shield or kind of illusion. I don’t know, it’s kind of defy or something. And I still feel like I still don’t really understand what the problem is or what I need. [00:19:43]
[Pause]
THERAPIST: I guess how I’m thinking about it is if the way you do things now is a shield, what it’s protecting you from I think is this sense of disappointment that you were referring to yesterday. [00:20:43]
The point of staying very focused, of not getting pulled off at times you’re always your prerogative is to kind of protect yourself from being disappointed in yourself or in other people I think. And I think you’re saying okay, that way’s not making me very happy; I don’t want to do it that way. What if I just say when I’m tired, okay I’m tired. I can’t do twelve things to try to ward off this feeling of disappointment I’m just going to accept that I’m tired. I mean that’s one example if I understand you correctly. [00:21:37]
And I guess I can see how that would be scary because it sort of exposes, it leaves you much more exposed. You’re right; I think the crab analogy falls down that way. I mean I don’t think you’re looking for some other way to protect yourself. You’re I think looking to not be feeling so vulnerable in the first place if that makes sense; to deal with whatever this feeling of disappointment is so it doesn’t affect you so much and you’re kind of freer to do things the way you want and in the first place to know what you want, if that makes sense. [00:22:47]
So I think your point about my metaphor is a very valid one that it doesn’t fit that well in the way you point to. And I guess I’m a little less clear what you mean when you refer to still not really understanding what the problem is. Do you mean why you’re, why you can feel so disappointed in the first place? [00:23:36]
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I see. [Pause] I basically agree with that, that I don’t yet understand either why that is or how that works. In other words what motivates it. [00:24:54]
[Pause]
I think there can this other word that sort of can be learned and addressed about it but I don’t know either yet. [00:25:57]
[Pause]
CLIENT: So I guess I just get, I don’t know, kind of angry because I don’t know what to do other than what I’ve been doing and it just feels helpless even though I’m kind of willing to try or willing to see things apparently [inaudible] around. [00:26:58]
THERAPIST: I actually think you are doing something quite significant, perhaps you’ll see this differently, in it seems to me sort of investigating, questioning and criticizing this sort of paradigm that you’ve been living with and that dictates a lot about how you are living your life. [00:27:52]
I think too, I mean it sounds like when I put it like that as though I could be referring to a pretty conceptual or intellectual exercise. But I actually don’t really see it that way in that at least to me it seems in order to really look at that and question and criticize it, it makes you very anxious. [00:28:34]
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: It’s like standing up to something terrifying I think. [00:29:06]
CLIENT: Right. But I guess where I am now is kind of feels like okay I’m going to quit eating sugar but I’m going to still have ice cream. And the ice cream is kind of like I still want to be productive, I still want, I don’t know, I’m still kind of holding onto it or something. It’s still kind of there, I guess.
THERAPIST: Absolutely. Yes, I [pause] I [inaudible at 00:30:05] see it that way too, that it’s still there in a very big way. This is not like something you overthrow in a short period of time. I mean it’s certainly not the way this certain thing works. [Pause] But I do think that what you have been doing and are doing is kind of making inroads. [00:30:58]
[Pause]
But I don’t know. Maybe I’m missing some of the specificity in what you’re saying. When you say you’re going to quit eating ice cream or quit eating sugar, sorry, but still could eat ice cream, what in that analogy is still eating ice cream? Is it trying to figure out something to do about this? [00:32:04]
CLIENT: No, I guess it’s kind of wanting to be productive or all these things are steamrolled or to have it separated.
THERAPIST: I see, okay. And so it’s -
CLIENT: Otherwise it seems like it’s going to I don’t know. Yes, I’ll just do nothing.
[Pause]
THERAPIST: Right. Yes, I think, okay. I think the very kind of incremental and basically the way that we’re dealing with this which is very incremental and kind of non-linear in the sense that it’s not well you do this and do this and do this and that helps. You know what I mean? It feels very roundabout I think and passive in that way. [00:33:37]
I think all that brings up that same, well I think it’s very disappointing. And that seems at this moment a lot of what you’re feeling. [00:34:13]
[Pause]
CLIENT: I feel like I need something, I don’t know, to remind, to not kind of fall back in or kind of remind myself I don’t even know what, [laughs] just remind myself that it doesn’t have to be this way or something like that. [00:35:22]
THERAPIST: I see. That there could be another way?
CLIENT: Right.
[Pause]
THERAPIST: I wonder, I don’t think this is all of what you’re talking about by any means, but I wonder if there’s a piece of that that’s coming up because it’s a Thursday and we’re not going to talk again until Monday. [00:36:38]
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: And so I don’t think it always feels this way. Recently it has been, there were moments I think where it’s felt like I am with you contending against this thing. And it’ll be on your list for a few days. [00:37:38]
CLIENT: Right. I mean it’s just easier to kind of be I don’t know. It’s like get lost or kind of slipped away or backsliding, whatever. When I don’t, yes, come here it just kind of, it’s like I’m thrown back in or something. [00:38:40]
[Pause]
I don’t know. I guess it makes me, I don’t know, it makes me kind of angry and I want to be strict on myself so I kind of stay on this plane and [00:40:34]
[Pause]
THERAPIST: Well we should finish up for now. [00:42:44]
END TRANSCRIPT
