TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
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NO VOICE UNTIL [00:00:53]
CLIENT: I guess things are going all right. (pause) I guess I’m feeling a little stretched because I have all these big experiments, but then there are little things I need to do in between and I feel very unmotivated to do them because I kind of want to focus on what I need to do to kind of get through these larger things. [00:02:10] So I guess I’m just kind of focusing on those [ ] (inaudible at 00:02:27) not really. I’m feeling like I have a lot of things to do, but not really wanting to do them and seeing them as a burden. I feel pretty calm about it. [00:03:03] I’m not very anxious. If something pops up that I need to do, I add it to the list and hope I get to it at some time. (long pause) [00:04:32] I guess in terms of getting myself prepared for moving and planning, like how I should I move my stuff, I guess I also feel very unmotivated. I think it’s because I don’t have [ ]. Everything is just on me to decide or make a decision. I just feel very unmotivated or not excited about doing it myself. [00:05:41] I just feel like it’s more work I have to do. (long pause) [00:06:55]
THERAPIST: I guess [ ] (inaudible at 00:06:55) focused and getting it done and the stages of it can be isolated and lonely.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:07:49] It’s just hard to feel motivated or excited about doing some of this by myself. There are a lot more immediate things to be focused on or to do. (long pause) [00:09:04] I don’t know why. I guess I just don’t really have a preference. I just want what’s easiest.
THERAPIST: What do you mean?
CLIENT: In terms of deciding where I’m going to live or how to move my stuff. I just don’t really want to think about it, so I kind of just want to do what’s easiest.
THERAPIST: [ ] (inaudible at 00:09:41)
CLIENT: Right. People keep asking me if I have been looking and I just don’t really have the time or feel motivated. [00:10:03] I’m spending my energies doing work and moving is not really at the top of my list to figure out or work on.
THERAPIST: I guess it’s as though, in a way, you don’t care much about or discount yourself and what happens to you. [00:10:57]
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know if I’m just being lazy and not wanting to do some research or look around. (pause) [00:12:09]
THERAPIST: Maybe this is not exactly what you’re talking about, but I wonder if you also feel like it doesn’t matter to me that you’re leaving. (pause)
CLIENT: I haven’t really thought about it. (long pause) [00:13:40] I don’t know. It kind of just seems natural. It’s the nature of it. It’s kind of like at work. People come and go. It just seems natural. I don’t know. It just seems kind of like formal or not . . . I don’t know if that makes sense. [00:14:53]
THERAPIST: I think I know what you mean. In a way, it feels like people are already so distant from each other that it doesn’t matter much.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:15:59]
THERAPIST: Which I guess would be me at work as well.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:17:38] In a way it feels like [I’ve done] (ph?) something wrong or . . .
THERAPIST: What do you mean?
CLIENT: Like I’m removing myself from the situation or keeping my distance.
THERAPIST: I see. (long pause) [00:19:05] Maybe that’s safer?
CLIENT: Right, but it’s also something I want. I want to be more self-reliant and I feel extremely vulnerable or dependent on people. I don’t like that. (pause) [00:19:58] It seems like examples of work or the way people in my position leave or whatever, people always say care more about yourself; worry about what you need to do. You’re leaving, so what’s going to happen? You’re not going to get in trouble for not finishing something. For me, I can’t turn that on. It’s not satisfying [ ] (inaudible at 00:20:49).
THERAPIST: I see. So you can’t say “I’ve got to spend more time looking for an apartment or whatever when I’m at work. I’m going to blow off this piece of work” or “it’s going to get done three days too late” or something like that, the way that somebody else might be able to do and might be encouraged to do. [00:21:08] But you feel too vulnerable to do that and too reliant on the people you want to maintain a good impression with.
CLIENT: Also I think it’s just easier to do things for other people who are more motivated.
THERAPIST: Somehow that seems to matter more? That’s easier to want to do?
CLIENT: Right. [00:21:51] (long pause) [00:22:52] It just seems like other people can advocate for themselves, have beliefs or form arguments, where they can justify what they’re doing. I can never do that.
THERAPIST: In a way, I guess it’s like you feel more remote from yourself, not from what other people need – like from your own needs or vulnerability as far as what can happen to you if you don’t do things you need to do for yourself. [00:24:01] Those feel more remote, less important, less motivating.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:25:12]
THERAPIST: [ ] (inaudible at 00:25:12) often feel very connected to what other people want or what matters to them or what they need from you.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:27:01] I guess I don’t know what to do because seeing what I would call selfishness in other people infuriates me. I don’t know what to do. Maybe it’s easier to be selfish or . . . [00:27:57]
THERAPIST: And it certainly [ ] (inaudible at 00:28:14) it’s very practical. (long pause) [00:30:08]
CLIENT: I don’t [know how to] (ph?) get excited or cultivate that. [ ] (inaudible at 00:30:35)
THERAPIST: Well you hate it. You find it, I think, repugnant.
CLIENT: Right. (long pause)
THERAPIST: I guess I don’t have the sense that you find me wholly that way, but maybe in certain aspects that I’m committed. I wonder if, at times, it feels to you like I’m making an excuse on my own behalf and I’m not going to give advice or tell you what I think you should do with the stated reason that I don’t think that’s what’s helpful, but it certainly gets me off the hook, too. [00:32:30] (long pause)
CLIENT: I don’t know. I mean I know what you’re talking about, but I always feel like I’m just not being clear or I’m supposed to be processing or dealing with [it with lack of] (ph?) advice or direction. [00:34:01]
THERAPIST: I see. So you go back and forth on whether you think I can actually help. (long pause)
CLIENT: Right. (pause) [00:35:00] I guess I can rationalize that I need to work things out or feel things or process my own emotions and not something that I’m telling myself, but then it kind of comes down to what do I do or what do I feel or how do I get out of this? I guess that’s why I’m torn. [00:35:53]
THERAPIST: I guess it’s also how I’m kind of with you in this and kind of not?
CLIENT: Right. (long pause) [00:37:03]
THERAPIST: Another way to say it is that it feels like I’m kind of motivated in your behalf and kind of not? (long pause) I put it that way because it seems to me like there is something important about how, when you don’t feel like the people around you are really caring or putting themselves aside on your behalf, where they would be there for you in some way with what you need, it’s a lot like you not being able to do that for yourself either. [00:38:48] (pause)
CLIENT: Right. I don’t know. Somehow it still feels like my fault that if I was better at explaining myself or I could advocate for myself, but I’m kind of unsure of how to deal with the situation or it’s my fault. It’s hard for me to tell a story or tell what’s going on. [00:40:06] So it’s harder for the other person to be supportive. (pause) [00:40:48]
THERAPIST: I see. It’s on you first to be able to explain or express yourself and, if you can’t do that, why would somebody else or how would they know what to do to be helpful [ ] (inaudible at 00:41:06)?
CLIENT: Right. [00:41:11]
THERAPIST: And it feels like there are other things you’re not adequately explaining or not making clear to me or that I don’t get, but that you’re trying to get across? (pause) [00:41:58]
CLIENT: Yeah, it feels like I’m just not explaining everything correctly or I just don’t know what I want or need, so it’s hard to [have a direction or] (ph?) what I want. (pause) [00:43:23]
THERAPIST: It’s like if you’re at an ice cream store and the person behind the counter is preoccupied doing whatever, but you’ve actually told them you want a chocolate shake, then it doesn’t quite feel fair to blame them for not getting you want you want or something? (pause) [00:44:03]
CLIENT: I don’t know. I think it’s more like I don’t know what I want and how can someone to help me if I don’t know what I want or need?
THERAPIST: I see. We should stop for now.
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