TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Yeah. So, let me just tell you a few things about this.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So, what I do is I record the session on this iPhone and then I upload it to, to my own private account on box.com. Which, the, the kind of person that runs the study or is the coordinator of the study I should say.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: She has access to and then two transcribers have access to them. They, one of the two of them. The transcribers will download it and, and then they transcribe it and do all the anonymizing on that end.

CLIENT: Sure.

THERAPIST: I delete it from my iPhone.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Once I’ve uploaded it.

CLIENT: Is my name attached to the file in any way?

THERAPIST: Your initials are.

CLIENT: Okay. That’s fine. So, I’ve got nothing to worry about then.

THERAPIST: But, they, when they, from what I understand, when they download it, they don’t, when they’re done with the tape, they, they don’t keep a copy.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. I understand.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Cool. Awesome.

THERAPIST: So, if you’ve got any more questions and actually, I’ve been meaning to send you information about the study.

CLIENT: Sure. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I’ve done that for people. It’s, you know, it’s like that’s an option.

CLIENT: Is it recording now?

THERAPIST: It is, yeah. [00:01:30]

CLIENT: Infinite flu motherfuckers. I don’t know what you’re going to do with that. Sorry.

THERAPIST: Let me make sure it is recording. Yeah. It is.

CLIENT: Sorry, everybody. That was immature. Yeah. Yeah. It has been crazy. I kept calling and calling and calling my doctor trying to get through to her. I’m like listen, would, you please. You know prescribe something, but I called her on Friday and she was, like, out taking a class on Friday and she didn’t call back and then Monday was a holiday and then, you know, craziness, of course, on Monday and we’ll have to talk about that at some point. But, on Tuesday, I called and called and called and nothing. And, so yesterday, I called every half hour.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: Until they finally got back to me. Then one of the nurses wrote me out a prescription for codeine. It was Tylenol four with codeine. And, but, I had to walk down there to get it. So, I had to go to Windsor Street. I’m at home and Ginny has got the car and I’m like I guess I’ll fucking walk down there. And, Ginny was like no, no, no, no, no. She was like I’m leaving work. I’m coming to get you and drive you down. Which was good because, like, walking that far is not, not great, so. Yeah, but still, codeine. So, it’s nice. I’ve never had codeine before.

THERAPIST: Oh, really? Yeah.

CLIENT: So, that was nice.

THERAPIST: It has been helping? It has helped a little bit?

CLIENT: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. When I take it every four hours, as instructed, it gets a nice wave going and keeps the pain really down. It’s interesting. You have to be careful because I realize my body is still injured. I’m just not feeling it. So, I still have to be careful, you know, with how I move and do my stretches and all those things. But, now that some of this is in writing, I’m doing the stretches and if this doesn’t really improve though, I’m going to get an x-ray and be like what the fuck is going on.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Of course.

CLIENT: You know. She’s younger than I am. She’s 32 years old.

THERAPIST: This is your primary? [00:03:30]

CLIENT: My doctor. Yeah. She’s younger than I am. It’s weird. My fucking my uncle last night. He’s 72 years old. He just turned 72 on April 5th and he cannot forget the card the lord sent to him. He’s upset about that, but he’s at least twice my age. He’s twice my age and I was thinking the other day about how the entire length of my life so far, I have that entire time over again before I’m his age. It just kind of blows my mind. My entire life. All of the time I’ve lived up to this point, again, until I’m 72.

So, Ginny has a patient who is 101 right now in hospice and she said the other day, and this is quite a statement as far as I’m concerned. She said everyone I love is dead. Everyone I hate is dead. This stinks. Profound, right? You know. Every human being for whom I have an intense emotion is dead. And, so where does that leave you? At the end of your life at 101 years of age, dying. Perhaps, thankfully at that point. You know. But, then, you really do die alone. There is no one who will mourn your passing and no one who will rejoice in your passing. No one will even take note of your passing for whom you have any sort of feeling.

THERAPIST: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:00]

CLIENT: You know. It’s like this woman must be like, well, if I die, who cares? Who cares? Who cares? Really. Honestly. Who?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: That sort of person.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Still, yeah. The Boston Marathon bombings, huh?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, I was walking in to town, because I was feeling like, you know, I’m feeling a little bit better. I’ll take a walk in to town. I forget why.

THERAPIST: You were going to walk in to Providence?

CLIENT: No, no, just in to Davis. From my house, it’s like 20 minutes. This was on Monday. I was just like yeah, I’ll, I’ll walk in and go get a milkshake or something. You know. It was a nice day. And, so, I’m walking down there and Ginny calls me and she’s like there’s fucking bombs are going off at the Boston Marathon and so I get on Twitter as I walk because that’s where news is and that’s what everyone was doing. As I was walking to Cranston, this is what every human being I passed, at least in close to my generation and younger, has their head down looking at a phone, reading Twitter, watching this happen in real time. I see photos of blood and dismembered limbs and just seeing it happen in real time. I was watching videos of it happening.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:06:15]

CLIENT: Amazing. It’s amazing. You see this, this one runner, an older man, like fall straight down to his knees and you, you, follow the blast wave. Like, it goes through the crowd and that one sliver of blast wave must have come through that area. It goes right through him and knocks his inner ears off or whatever and just, boom, boom, boom, straight down he goes. And, then you see the next picture, the Sports Illustrated picture, from the sports photographer who was there of like the cops. One cop went rushing to get over to him. Another cop and this other woman, this other cop, a female officer, she has her gun out, like, to her side and like running and looking for stuff and I’m like that’s fucking awesome is what that is. That’s, that’s, that’s heroism right there. That’s like just time to act. Run towards the danger. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: That’s, that’s the most beautiful thing. One of the most beautiful things that we’re capable of as a species. You know. Is the ability to run towards danger.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Some run right towards it. A lot of those guys.

CLIENT: Yeah, they’re just ordinary people. Just like the guy who ripped off his, he was a cook. He ripped off his apron to make a tourniquet and people were using lanyards as tourniquets. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:07:30]

CLIENT: It’s just fucking. I have one friend who was 20 minutes from the finish line when it happened. So, I have other friends who live, work in the building right next to where that happened that said that it shook the building they were in.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay. Yeah.

CLIENT: Another friend, who was right where the bomb went off, 20 minutes before it went off, and he’s like I’m going home. You know. And, he just walked away and he wasn’t killed or dismembered. And, you know, I’m looking at it as I’m watching this go and I’m like, I look at the size of the explosions and these are pipe bombs. These are like small, homemade bombs, because the blast was relatively small. Yeah. You know. And, so, I’m like okay, some domestic nut job. Like, if it were actual professional terrorists, there would have been a lot more damage, right? Like, that’s what my thinking is. Had it been an actual or a professional terrorist, this would have been enormous. More than three dead and 105 wounded. Right. You know. So, but, you know, it was evil.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Just an act of evil.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:08:45]

CLIENT: So, I hope they catch the person or persons and just kill them.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know. Like, again, Ginny and I differ on this greatly.

THERAPIST: Tell me what your thinking is.

CLIENT: I think the death penalty is the most humane thing you can do in many of these cases. So, we have a for profit prison system, right. Private companies running prisons for profit. So, you know, that’s why it’s so hard to get marijuana legalized. You know. You keep all those people in there. You know, but to be, to be in prison. Think about that. Like, the horrible things that can happen in prison and probably do happen in prison. Why would you subject a person to that? Is it a pot shot essentially? So, that’s just, that’s just a bad idea, right? Just to punish.

THERAPIST: Like a life term would be more a severe a punishment than the death penalty?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yes. Just to kill them. Yes. Just to kill them. I mean it’s like here, you have to go live in this hell for the rest of the life and we then have to pay for that. We have to pay money for you to live in hell. I would just rather kill them. You know. It’s, it’s the same as you are too dangerous. We can’t let you be out here. We need to keep you away from everyone else. Forever. Then we should just kill that person and save us a lot of money and save them a lot of misery. You know. It’s like oh, they deserve to suffer. No, nobody really deserves to suffer. You know. It doesn’t really work that way. We kill people because they need to die. That’s what war is. You know. It’s like well, we need you to go over there to stop them and the only thing we can do is, is use force, use lethal force and they’ll die. It’s not so that we can punish them. It’s not so we can. That’s what terrorism is, right? And, that’s what that is. Terrorism is the idea of, of inflicting punishment, right.

THERAPIST: They deserve it.

CLIENT: Yeah. Exactly. Which is, which is, is to live on in this state. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. [00:11:00]

CLIENT: I saw soldiers on the metro this morning. Soldiers with bullet proof vests.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. And, I thought good.

THERAPIST: Where, you were in front of the town square?

CLIENT: Yeah. The Square is over there.

THERAPIST: Brown.

CLIENT: I got off over there and I’m like good. Good. You know. Right now it seems perfectly logical, you know. If it were to persist, and well, this seems a little weird now or remiss. But, at a time like this, right after this happens, when we still don’t know who did this, yeah, sure, okay. But, right now, in the immediate time I am fine with it being.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What did you find it? You found it sort of comforting in a way?

CLIENT: Not even comforting. Just logical.

THERAPIST: Logical. Okay.

CLIENT: This makes sense. I can see why you’re here.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Reasonable.

CLIENT: Yeah. If I were in in your position, with the job you have, I would also want to be here.

THERAPIST: Okay. Yeah.

CLIENT: Sorry. That makes perfect sense.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I think I’m pretty rational about those things. Like, I’m for responsible gun ownership, right? We all have pistols and rifles to a certain degree. You should have to pass a background check though. Why not? Right. 46 top politicians, who, who, here we go. See here’s the thing. If you had to guess 46 politicians who were bribed regularly, like, where would you start? Right. If you said pull 46 names out of a hat, right.

THERAPIST: Unbelievable.

CLIENT: It’s there. Well, it’s, it’s, it just seems so clear and obvious, right? It’s like, it’s like, you know what the will of the American people is. You know this makes sense. You have to know that. So, why would you vote against this and then not explain why, right? You know, be like well, my reasoning is. So, no, well, your reasoning is they bought you. You were purchased. You know. Right. So, I’m like what do you do in that case? So, you don’t kill such people. So, you don’t send them to prison either. You should just take their money. Like, that’s something that we don’t do in the US, is like take their money away. I suppose other people’s whose assets would freeze. It seems like the that’s the only way to deal with these people. Right. You know.

THERAPIST: Get at their money.

CLIENT: Yeah. Take their money. That’s what you do when an employee won’t change. I mean, you know, it’s like you don’t want to fire them, but they won’t change, so you fuck with their money. You know, it’s like well, you don’t get any bonuses. Well, you don’t get a raise. You know. It’s like we’re fucking with your money. As soon as you do that, people will just change. Are those new frames? [00:13:25]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: There you go. When did you get them?

THERAPIST: I got them. I had them last week.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Maybe. Monday. Was it last Monday? Yeah. Last Monday. Last Monday or Tuesday.

CLIENT: I’m embarrassed I didn’t notice.

THERAPIST: What’s that?

CLIENT: I said I’m embarrassed I didn’t notice since it has been over a week.

THERAPIST: I don’t know when I wore them last. I wore them a couple days last week, but not every day.

CLIENT: Well, hopefully it wasn’t on Thursday. Otherwise, something’s wrong with me.

THERAPIST: You should have noticed it?

CLIENT: I should have, yes. Well, they’re very distinct. You know, they’re very different than, than usual. They have like a dark color, like a black.

THERAPIST: Blue.

CLIENT: Blue, a darker blue.

THERAPIST: Yeah. The old, the ones I usually wear are usually black.

CLIENT: That’s what I mean. Yeah, the other ones, but this is blue.

THERAPIST: This is blue.

CLIENT: Like. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. The other ones are like black and, I don’t know, kind of black and silver.

CLIENT: Yeah. So. Anyways. The other day my sister calls me. Rather she texted me, but for the sake of conversation. So, she contacts me and she says hey, what do you know about steampower.com. Jeremiah has it and he’s playing Team Fortress II with Dan. So, steampower.com is the web site where you go. Steam is a virtual store and console.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You talked to me about that.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know Steam. So, Jeremiah, this 10 year old boy who is friends with my nephew, Dan, who is 8 has his own laptop. He has his own boxy tab.

THERAPIST: Living large. [00:15:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. And, so he’s over because they have spring break this week. I’m like not that kids even go to school anymore. And, so my sister is watching her four kids and three other kids all week. Yeah.

THERAPIST: All week?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. So.

THERAPIST: It’s what, the parents and...

CLIENT: And, they do other things, right. So, anyway, so he’s over and she’s like, yeah, they’re playing a game called Team Fortress II, and she’s like is that okay for kids? And, I’m like, well, and I started to laugh as I’m telling her this because it’s just so hysterical. I’m like well, I mean, yeah, it’s kind of like a cartoon game. Cartoon violence, but I guess, I mean, no it is a game where ultimately you’re firing rockets at your friends and blowing them in to bloody chunks and I just started laughing. I’m like yeah, I mean you’re shooting each other with bullets and, you know, like setting each other on fire and blah, blah, blah. So, I’m like it’s rated M for mature. Like, so, that’s equivalent to an R rated movie. You should, you should know that and I said you should go watch them play the game and then make a choice. She’s like I think I have made a choice. So, she hangs up and she texted me in like ten more minutes and she’s like yeah, just saw one person. Same you said, on fire and one bloody decapitation and I put an end to that. So, she’s like there were tears, but I was like this is not a game for children. So, we’re talking on the phone again and she’s like, yeah, I went in there and I said so, I hear this, this game is rated M for mature and she’s like they both looked at me with such fear on their faces, you know, of like oh, no, she knows and now what is she going to do? So, you know, anyway, and they were, they were mad. You know. I’m talking to her and I’m like you should probably let his parents just know in case they don’t. He’s playing rated M games, you know. And, I’m like, and you should also know that, like, that he can make e-mail addresses. He can go anywhere on the net.

THERAPIST: Oh, with his computer he can get the e-mail addresses. [00:17:00]

CLIENT: He can do e-mail addresses. He can go anywhere. Because, like, he’s like, yes, of course, I’m 18. Those are a joke. You know. And, I’m like I start looking at parental controls for Steam and I’m like what am I doing? I’m like the only thing, this is true as well, the only thing I’m putting in parental controls on your console or PC or cable box does is teach your children how to subvert parental controls. This is what the very first thing I did. My mother put parental controls on the, the cable box. This is back when we had uhf and vhf or whatever. You had the dials. You remember the dials. And, so, I remember, she, she blocked out certain channels.

THERAPIST: On the, on broadcast?

CLIENT: Yeah. On the cable box. Like, MTV, you know, and stuff like that. You know. MTV the devil music. She saw me watching MC Hammer doing the Adams Family rap one time and she flipped through the roof.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. She’s like oh, the devil’s music.

THERAPIST: The devil’s music.

CLIENT: The devil’s music. So, so, in any case, so, she would block out these channels and I discovered by playing around with it pretty early that, so the television had to be set to three. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: If you, if you then put the cable box on a channel and changed the thing to four, it was sort of the next channel up.

THERAPIST: So, if you want to watch 38 and it was you put it on four and 37 or something like that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. If it ended up being on five, then you could see, you know, 39.

THERAPIST: Yeah. That’s right. [00:18:30]

CLIENT: Fine. No problem and whenever she leaves the house, you just change it over and you know. I could watch whatever I wanted to.

THERAPIST: And, there’s a way that makes it even more alluring in some ways.

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s like you know. And, I’m sitting there, and I’m thinking the other day, like, like, when I was a kid, so it started with like, you know, you find the Sears catalog. You would turn to the bra pages. You would rip those out and take those back to your room.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I remember you saying that.

CLIENT: I was like 12. And, then...

THERAPIST: And, then you replaced them, right? Did you replace them or did you just keep them?

CLIENT: Oh, like, I yeah, I’d go searching for Victoria’s Secret catalogs. Oh, wow, Victoria’s Secret. You know. It was a huge thing. And, like, that’s what I had to do for my porn when I was like 12. He can go anywhere.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: He has, he has the Internet. He can get way more explicit porn than I even imagined when I was a child, right? I mean, the, the shit that’s out there. And, the problem is, nobody’s talking. There’s some really dangerous shit out there. Like, you can get access to things that are illegal. You know. I mean just feel it. So, you have to like know and like stuff I know. I’m like oh, let’s go here. Oh, god, you know, back away. You go to site advisors. You’re like hey, is this site safe and there’s like three different sites you check that will tell you like the trust levels of the site and there’s comments on it. You know. So, you, you can investigate things before you even go there. They don’t know that stuff. They don’t, nobody, they don’t know anything.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:20:00]

CLIENT: You know. And, now they’re like, so, what’s painful anal? What’s that about? Let’s check that out and I’m kind of like, it’s, like, Jesus.

THERAPIST: Yeah. It really, it sounds like it really caught, it caught your attention though that these kids, this kid might be able to do all of this.

CLIENT: He can do anything. They gave him a window to the whole of human knowledge and they just let him walk away with it. And, now, the thing is you can’t stop it, right? They have access. When they, when they borrow her phone, to play iPhone games. When they use their iPod touch. They have access to the whole of human knowledge and there is nothing you can do other than take those windows away.

THERAPIST: Oh, I see.

CLIENT: The only thing you can do now. The only thing you can do is constantly prepare them, you know, like these are things that exist and you’re going to see them, but you have to know what they mean and what they do. And, like, like, oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: Like, they need to be protected.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, prepared. Prepared.

THERAPIST: Prepared.

CLIENT: You can’t protect them. They’re going to go out there and find it. Right. You have to arm them.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, it’s more proactive.

THERAPIST: Because you’ll get, like, you can get bombard by all that.

CLIENT: Well, yeah. And, you have to, like, you know, when Dan starts looking at porn now, right, with his friend, Jeremiah, on their computer. Right, like I want to be able to say here’s, like, this is porn. Right. This is it, but you need to think about this in a variety of ways. And then, so, what you’re seeing here is not like what really happens in real life. What you’re seeing here is creative for display. You know, and like, you have to be really careful because this can change the way you think about people in incorrect ways. You have to be wary of how you think and how the things you ingest change the way you think or can change the way you think. You have to proactively maintain your rational viewpoint and you’re eight years old and what is your rational viewpoint? You know. [00:22:10]

THERAPIST: Oh. Oh.

CLIENT: So.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: It’s there. And, I’m like then what do you do? Because maybe they don’t even know it’s out there yet. Right. And, so, then you bring it up and now they know. But, if you don’t bring it up, and they find it without anyone explaining it beforehand.

THERAPIST: Are they going be ready to see it?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know. Like, it’s, they have access to the whole of human knowledge.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: It’s, that cannot be under estimated enough. Right? Yeah. That should not be under estimated. Really. There’s, there is access to the whole of human knowledge. So, yeah. So, that’s fascinating. You know. I’m like, you’ve got to just fucking talk to people, man. I’m so proactive. You know. You have to be.

And, so, last night, you know, Justin comes home. Bridget’s baby daddy of the, of the, the youngest. And, he has been really good about influencing rules. You know. Just basic manners. So, that’s really good. And, you know, and so Dan gets pissed at Justin about something. Some rule thing or something. And, he’s talking to Bridget. He’s mad. He’s like if I had a gun, I would shoot him. And, I’m like, this is crap. She’s like, she’s like, thanks Team Fortress II. I’m like well, no. Thanks to our culture of violence. Right? I mean he asked about Team Force II today, but, like, that’s not where he got the idea of guns and shooting people. This is a kid who when he was four threatened to go to a neighbor’s house and get a gun and shoot his mother if she didn’t give him ice cream.

THERAPIST: Is that right? [00:24:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, what does that even mean? Where does it even come from?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And...

THERAPIST: Yeah. The kid has to be prepared. I mean like, yeah, you’re sort of saying that they have to have a role.

CLIENT: He has access to this violent language, but he doesn’t have access to the meaning behind it, the consequences behind it. You know. What he’s really saying. You know. Yet, it exists. It’s all out there.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: He has been exposed to it.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And, you can’t, you can’t put it back in the toothpaste tube, right? It’s out. It’s out. You know. So.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. And, then they, and then there’s also this anger about the rules.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Oh. That they’re trying to put some sort of structure or something.

CLIENT: It’s also very smart. You know. He doesn’t want to be constrained and, you know, is curious.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And, he understands a lot things to do with it, but some things he doesn’t. You know. And, so.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: It’s kind of like they want to keep playing the game. They want to keep playing the game.

CLIENT: Sure.

THERAPIST: They want to not be.

CLIENT: They’re like oh, this is interesting.

THERAPIST: I want to have more knowledge.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like, let’s explore this. You know. Let’s explore this. Oh, wow, this is fun.

THERAPIST: It’s fun or it’s experience.

CLIENT: Yeah, or it’s like I know I’m not supposed to be doing this.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know. So, it’s not any of those things. The codeine is kicking in. So.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What do you notice and what is it making you feel?

CLIENT: It’s, it’s...

THERAPIST: Is it cloudy or something?

CLIENT: Not cloudy. Just, like, looser, I suppose.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: It’s, it’s what we call the body high. You know. You feel more your body than your mind.

THERAPIST: Your body is feeling looser.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve noticed it seems to have a slight tendency towards euphoric qualities, I think.

THERAPIST: Oh. [00:26:00]

CLIENT: So, that’s nice. So, I fucking love drugs. You know. What, what can I say? They’re great. You know. Yeah. That is nice. I like this. I like codeine. I can see why people would do this. I mean I’ve never had an oxytocin problem, but I can see why people would do that.

THERAPIST: They’re pain relievers?

CLIENT: Yeah. Exactly. I’ve had Percocet. I’m like, oh, I can see how people do this. Like, I’ve been in constant pain for three weeks. So, I’m like yeah, this is great. You know. Totally. Mind you, it’s terrible for my body. It’s like shit. It’s like fucking hell on your liver.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It fucks up your intestinal tract so it doesn’t work as well. So, so, no I don’t want to take codeine the rest of my life, but right now, yeah, it’s fucking awesome. You know. So.

THERAPIST: Well, it’s good it’s having an effect. I mean sometimes codeine won’t even be able to, you know, do much of a trick.

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That sucks. It’s got to suck for people. And, yeah, man. So, I’m still looking for a job. So, I didn’t get a call back from the financial advisor place. I’m not surprised. He probably picked up on my disinterest.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And, yet, here I go. Did I tell you that I looked up the woman who, who got my job at Melody?

THERAPIST: No. Wow.

CLIENT: Well, she’s way more qualified than I am.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. She has been doing it for twice as long as I have. And, at larger companies. So, yeah, I mean she’s a fucking pro.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, yeah. She, totally, she was the right choice.

THERAPIST: Interesting.

CLIENT: Clearly. And, I’m like I would work for her. I would be a QA manager for her. You know. But, again, do you remember why I broke up with that crazy girl? I don’t know. Melody is still Melody.

THERAPIST: Melody is still Melody. [00:28:00]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Do they have stuff there?

CLIENT: Well, I mean they have the bank recording, the guy I left as QA manager they never promoted to QA director. They kind of hemmed and hawed and just kind of left him where he was. They don’t really like him. It’s a good chance they’re going to get rid of him. If they do, they’ll need someone.

THERAPIST: I see. Yeah.

CLIENT: The thing is QA manager was the job where I was happiest.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. Because I was just, you know, fucking, mentoring people and I was, this fucking mail box, and, you know, that was, that was nice. I liked that. You know, moving people around. Come to think of it, looking at the director stuff, some shit there I didn’t like. Fucking contracts. Fucking, like, talking with sales people on the phone. And, what I liked was being like, hello, person, here’s how you can be better. Let’s make you better.

THERAPIST: You do like that stuff. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I do. [00:29:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah. You don’t want the bullshit of politics, the politics bullshit and that kind of stuff.

CLIENT: I don’t. I don’t because it’s bullshit. I mean this is the politics of bullshit.

THERAPIST: Just let me do my job?

CLIENT: Well, yeah. Like, because everyone’s like oh, this thing. Well, just tell me what you fucking want.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know. Let’s deal with that. Let’s deal with what you want, not with what you’re trying to make me think you need.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: To get what you actually want.

THERAPIST: That isn’t fun to you.

CLIENT: Well, no. It’s a fucking waste of time. It’s irrational bullshit. You know. I’m just like why are we dealing with this?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: And, and, again, this is, so to be at a level where I didn’t have to deal with that. Where I can be like yeah, whatever. Make the calls. You know. And, this is, this is the lesson I would, I would impart.

THERAPIST: And, it would be just for the paycheck.

CLIENT: Yeah. Exactly. And, a nice place for nice people. Then the lesson I would impart to my subordinates when they go oh, it’s Friday, it’s crazy. I’d be like stop caring about it. Honestly. Like, you can do nothing to affect it. I mean you can’t. You can’t do anything to affect it. All you can control is how you react to things. So, let’s deal with that. [00:30:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: How are you going to react to things?

THERAPIST: What was the position you were at when you left?

CLIENT: QA director.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I was above that. Their offshoot is gone.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay.

CLIENT: And, that’s where I really stopped liking things.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay. I didn’t realize that. Alright.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean looking back on it, you know, you know.

THERAPIST: How long were you at the manager level?

CLIENT: Maybe a year.

THERAPIST: And, then they promoted you?

CLIENT: They promoted me. Well, they designed the director position based on how I was running my apartment. And, they had one director except for me. And, I was like what the fuck and I went to the office and I was like, I was like, well, so, you told me you designed this position based on how I was doing my job.

THERAPIST: Oh, right. Yeah.

CLIENT: They’re like yeah. So, why am I not offered the job? They’re like well, we feel maybe you’re kind of junior. I’m like I’m the same age as Logan. He was like one of their golden boys. They’re like no. So, then, you know, the CTO calls me and has lunch with me. He’s like, he’s like, just so you know, like, these are my concerns and I’m like those are, these don’t apply to me. Like, what, who do you think I am? Honestly. He’s like we just don’t want you to think that like, you know, you’re done growing and I’m like.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I’m like I don’t, I don’t think that I’m done.

THERAPIST: It’s all of that business crap.

CLIENT: Yeah. I’m like what. I’m never done growing.

THERAPIST: You definitely don’t need that.

CLIENT: Yeah. There, there was a girl who was all angry years ago.

THERAPIST: What’s that?

CLIENT: In college. There was this, this townie by the name of Ro. She was fucking hot as hell. She was hot as hell.

THERAPIST: Riley was her name?

CLIENT: Ro.

THERAPIST: Ro.

CLIENT: Yeah. And, her father was a mason. He was this enormous man who could take, you know, six, but it was like these huge sheets of like particle board. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like, six feet long and, you know, like, maybe three feet wide and he could just take them and throw them up to a ledge easily twice his height. Well, maybe one point five times his height and he just threw them. He tossed them like they were nothing.

THERAPIST: What did he do, like construction or something?

CLIENT: Yeah. He worked in the, in the, the seam shop in theater.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: He would pick up.

THERAPIST: He would pick up these things and be able to just...

CLIENT: Yeah. Just chuck them. He would grab them with his hands. His daughter was hot as hell. Her name is Ro.

THERAPIST: Ro.

CLIENT: And, it was over the summer time and I was staying in opposite. This is after my sophomore year and I was dating Patrice. I was fucking Patrice. That’s really what was happening. That’s what we were doing. We were fucking. That was, we had no.

THERAPIST: That was the beginning and the end of it.

CLIENT: Yeah. We had no, you know, common interests besides theater. We had, we were not compatible as people. She was a nymphomaniac and I didn’t realize that and I was the guy who got to have sex with a nymphomaniac. You know. And it wasn’t so great. I realized how destructive the whole thing was to her. You know. How much self-loathing there was involved in her inability to not have sex with people whenever it was offered. You know. It was very difficult for her not to sleep with people. And, I didn’t get that at the time. It wasn’t until later I was like wow, that was really hard for her. You know, like so much of her sexual experience before her now husband, was really rough with her because she couldn’t say no. You know. And, yeah. Like, she had an orgasm the time she was raped and it, she hated herself. And, that was devastating and I had no idea, how to, how to help her with that. Right? I didn’t judge her for it. I didn’t, like, condemn her, you know. But, somehow I had no wisdom to offer for something that deep. You know. [00:34:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: But, I don’t know. But, Patrice was away that summer. She was at home and Ro was there. Now, Ro used to hang out with us because we didn’t like to smoke weed. We didn’t like to drink. Ro was 14 years old. Now, you wouldn’t know that Ro was 14 years old because as they said, she was all done growing. She had the body of a woman. Looked like a woman. When I found out she was 14 years old, I was devastated. I was like Ro, no. Never got drunk with me that little bit, but that still happened. But, and that was one night. You know, out on the back porch. We kissed a bit. You know.

THERAPIST: What did she do? Would she hang out at the theater or something?

CLIENT: No. She was hanging out with us for the summer. She was a townie. It was the summer. You know. So, I’m smoking weed with this 14 year old and I’m drinking with this 14 year old and I’m making out with this 14 year old. A little bit of boobage and, you know, the next day she comes around, you know, with her friends and wanted to hang out some more and I’m like this is trouble. I’m like this is very bad trouble. And, Rich was like, you know, her father’s a mason, right? And, I’m like I know. I know. He’s like you, I know. I know. It’s like this is, this over. This is done. This never, this never happened. I mean she was pretty wild. She took to it. No problem. She’s like forget it. Like, I’m 14. And, yeah, she got pregnant a little while later by some dude. You know.

THERAPIST: Older guy?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Like, I said she I mean she was in to older guys. She was very, very smart in Western Chicago and there’s not a lot of very, very smart people. So, she’s a college grad. Great. Very smart. She can actually have conversations with me and they also do they really want me. I’m like, you know, I, yeah. So, that was probably the worst idea I ever had. [00:36:20]

THERAPIST: What was? Yeah. What do you mean?

CLIENT: Well, kissing a 14 year old when I was like 18 years old. I mean that was fucking stupid.

THERAPIST: I see. Yeah.

CLIENT: You know. I was drunk. Yes, really, it was just kissing, but still. Still. Danger Will Robinson. Danger.

THERAPIST: Danger.

CLIENT: You know. And, looking back, that was part of the mania. You know. It’s like it was dangerous. I liked that it was dangerous.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Was it something that was dangerous?

CLIENT: Yeah. It was the risk of it. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What about her? What about her?

CLIENT: She was hot. She was willing. She was. There’s a line in, there’s a line in Lolita when he, when he finally has sex with Lolita where he says something like God help me, I was not even her first lover. You know. And, there was something to that. Like, I was just some dude. She had been through the process. You know. She was not a virgin. She made that clear. She asked me if I had a condom. I was like this is a bad idea. This is a 14 year old girl. Yeah, so, no. I, my wisdom prevailed and I did not do an incredibly stupid crime. So, that’s good. But, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: It’s something about the, the danger too is a little bit.

CLIENT: Yes. But, so, here’s the thing. So, I’m still thinking about the cam girl. You know. And, she retired and, like, it’s kind of weird. You know. You never see her again. And, so, there was this cam girl.

THERAPIST: What are you talking about?

CLIENT: Oh, oh. No. Yeah, it’s like.

THERAPIST: You gestured over there.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. But, there’s this new one. I saw her. She’s talking to me and I’m like this is fucking bullshit. Like, this is an act. This is, she’s like, oh, wow, you’re a really great guy. I’m like oh. No. No. No. Good bye. You know. I’m like this is. I’m not here for you to act at me and I’m like, I’m like that, I’m never going to get that back. [00:38:45]

THERAPIST: With that girl that was really genuine.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Like, I’m never going to get that back.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What’s the...

CLIENT: That was a very important relationship to me.

THERAPIST: I know.

CLIENT: And, like, it was a business relationship. You know. That was one of many clients. You know, like, and I mean that’s fine, but, and I think I was always very aware of what he was and keeping it where it was. You know. I’m not one of those guys who’s like yeah, I’d love to meet you. There’s I don’t want to meet you. Like, I’m married and I’m happily married, you know. So, I don’t want to meet you, no.

THERAPIST: But, it was person, yes, it was professional

CLIENT: Yeah. And, it was someone who was for me. Like, do you do have escort services here in Providence? There’s one woman. She offers three levels of service. One is the tantric session. Which, from what I’m reading in the devil’s feed is a hand job. Then there’s the sensual session which is like $500. That’s a blow job. And, then there’s like the $800 session, which is the sacred session which you only get to have if you have had previous sessions and you really made a connection. And then, you can freely explore, with another consulting adult blah, blah and have sex. So, I’m like wow, it’s amazing that that’s right here. There’s, there’s a professional person. She wants to meet you in person beforehand in a public location. Blah, blah, blah. Screening process. You know. I’m like this is a professional process here. I’m like that’s really cool. I’m not going to act on that because that’s actually kind of sex with someone. You know. But, it should be legal. Prostitution absolutely should be legal. Well, it’s ridiculous that it’s illegal. It’s absolutely absurd. You know. And, Ginny’s like well, the people you’re, well, because it’s illegal right now. There’s no regulation. So, yeah, you totally have illegal prostitutes and you have people in bad situations and people who are in deep because they’re addicted to drugs. You wouldn’t have that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Who’s going to some, some heroin addict in a back alley when they can go to a nice brothel with someone they know doesn’t have an diseases because they get checked regularly. [00:41:05]

THERAPIST: What about this woman on your Internet though? The escort. What? You know.

CLIENT: No. I don’t know. It was, it was enticing, certainly. It was the idea of like oh, wow this is a nice business relationship. This isn’t only like here is an hour of time in which you belong to me, effectively. Not like slavery ownership, but, like, you are completely focused on me. You know. And, that’s, that’s what those relationships are. Right. That’s what I’m seeking. There was a period of time for which.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: Excuse me. In which I get to be completely selfish.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: Even though I’m, you know, tend to be very respectful in situations.

THERAPIST: Well, I think, yeah. Some, some feeling of, I mean, I don’t know if you’d call it love or not, but it’s something like that.

CLIENT: It’s not quite love.

THERAPIST: Care?

CLIENT: It’s certainly care. So, I think it’s another form of love, you know, but it’s not like, not like long term love.

THERAPIST: No. No. No. Right.

CLIENT: But there is certainly, there is, there is a form of love, you know, certainly and I have love for Helen. You know, and, so I’m concerned it’s just going to disappear and I know there was one point where her brother found out what she did and that was a problem. And, I’m like, did something happen where like her family found out? She erased her tablet as best she could. [00:42:30]

THERAPIST: Gosh. Like, it reminds of Kendra.

CLIENT: Yeah. They just go away.

THERAPIST: They just go away.

CLIENT: They’re suddenly just gone. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They may as well be dead. Yeah. They may as well be dead as far as I’m concerned.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They’re gone forever. Yeah, just use women that you rely on. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. And, it’s over and then there’s no more.

CLIENT: There’s no sense of closure. There’s no warning. With Kendra., there was a warning. Yeah. Clearly. She told me months in advance and that was great. I appreciate that, but.

THERAPIST: But, it’s like what the hell do I do with that?

CLIENT: And, what kills me with Helen is the last time she logged in was my birthday. The very last time she logged in was my birthday.

THERAPIST: Were you there? I mean.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: You just knew that she he logged in.

CLIENT: She knew my birthday because I’ve been with her on previous birthdays.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: You know. And, I don’t know why that kills me. That kills me the last time she logged in was on my birthday.

THERAPIST: What about it? Yeah. Tell me.

CLIENT: Was she looking for me?

THERAPIST: What was she looking for you?

CLIENT: Was she like it’s Sam’s birthday. He comes around on his birthday. You know. I hope it’s not either. And, then she signs off forever when she’s gone. Coincidence? Possibly, but, like, she knew me. She knew what to expect.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You knew there was something very wrong about the interaction.

CLIENT: Yeah. Something. I don’t know. I mean, and, it’s, at the same time, I’m being very, very understanding of Sam and she was very open about that too. She’s like there’s a lot of guys that come through here. You know, she’s like there, there really are. She’s like, she’s like, it’s like, so it’s you and like other guy, she’s like, who do I have like a relationship with? You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:44:10]

CLIENT: And, yeah, so, she was, she’s like clear you’re not the only one. There’s, there are other are people. You know.

THERAPIST: What did she focus, like, what was the, what were the interactions like between you two? What were they like?

CLIENT: I don’t know. We were just, we would just talk a little bit, you know. I mean, I know she’d actually masturbate on the camera.

THERAPIST: She, she would?

CLIENT: Yeah, and then, and then we’d talk a bit afterwards as well. You know. So.

THERAPIST: Would it just be her or would you?

CLIENT: Oh, no, no. It was mutual masturbation. That’s what these things are. You know. This is, this is the most lenient form of prostitution you can access. You know. But.

THERAPIST: And, what did that, what was that like for the two of you?

CLIENT: I don’t know. It’s a form of intimacy isn’t it, you know? I mean and it’s.

THERAPIST: I’ll say. It’s very intimate.

CLIENT: I mean it’s personal and it’s just between the two of us. You know. It’s shared and it’s private. You know. It costs some money, and then it’s, you know, then it’s over. You know, but then you come back to her public chat and you talk to her a bit more and it’s a free chat. You know.

THERAPIST: Okay. So, then you can go, you can go to a private.

CLIENT: Yeah. You go from a private back to a public. And, so, yeah, we’ll just talk about what she was doing. What she wanted to do. She was going in to rehab counseling. That was her career path. She was getting her masters in, in doing rehab counseling. You know. I like this girl. And, when I looked at her I’m like, I’m like thinking you wear a wig and I think you wear contact lenses. You know. Then, I’m like, that’s good. You want to have a life after this. You know. And, like, you expect she’s going to retire, you know, at some point. Most of them do. It’s roughly her age. Some in their early twenties. Because they want to do other stuff. [00:46:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They start getting less traffic. You know. The closer to. It’s a sick industry when someone who is 28 is called a MILF. You know. It’s like these are not old people.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I know. I mean the thing about Helen, right?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I was going to say it seems like a, I mean, that, that she is, she is somebody that you, you can really, you connect with on a yes, an intimate emotional, but that it could also be sexually intimate.

CLIENT: Oh, of course. Yeah. All of that is a big part of it, right. And, like, but, again, that’s part of the trifecta. Right?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: You know. It’s also emotional, you know, and very, very personal in many ways. And, so, so, yeah. So, yeah, so, I kind of, I don’t want to ascribe any deeper meaning to than, than I should. You know. I don’t have any real illusions about how she felt about me. I think it’s not that I think I was anything more than like a customer that she had a particular fondness for.

THERAPIST: She’s for it.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know.

THERAPIST: And, yet, it seems to me that there’s a lot of significance in that. At least in as much as, like, you know, given, again, the, the, context of your, of your development with a mother who, who found like sex being the devil’s work and you know. [00:47:30]

CLIENT: Well, yeah, and I work for a sort very real sexual acceptance.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, it’s just sort of like yeah, can you accept me completely sexually? In a way,

THERAPIST: And, I mean, there’s a lot. There’s a, there’s a tender, you obviously have tender feelings, you have tender feelings for her.

CLIENT: Sure. Yeah. Certainly.

THERAPIST: It’s not just an objectifying.

CLIENT: Right. No. And, in that case it’s me concerned for her in being like considerate of her and her needs in a social situation. In that case it was a nice thing that I was doing. As opposed to, you know, sex with your wife or a partner. You know. They’re, obviously, you have respect for them. There’s sort of an obligation. This is something we’re entering in to together and, like, there’s a definite sense of equality and these things look, go together. Since we’re in a relationship, this is, we need to be concerned about each other. Whereas, with Helen, technically, she’s a prostitute, but I choose to be concerned about her. I found who I could be concerned about. With whom I could make an actual connection. That was, because that was my choice.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: It’s like, so, your job is to be here and my choice is to treat you like a human being.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:48:40]

CLIENT: And, so, that was something else. But, then these other women. There’s no replacing them. You know. Those are the ones I just talk to. You know. I’m like, hey, blah, blah, blah. Oh, cool. You’re planning to go to the MS school. That’s cool. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. But, there’s no, there no replacing them. There’s no replacing them.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: So, I don’t know. Really.

THERAPIST: Yeah. No openness to that kind of realm. I mean it seems very critical that there is a feeling of an openness.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, it’s not so, so attractive that I’d dated this prostitute. You know, this, this, you know, this prostitute. You know, it’s like I really like that freedom. You know. That like short focused attention on me. A short, focused relationship. It begins and it ends within a particular time frame. Similar to this.

THERAPIST: You know, I was thinking.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: What do you? It’s something that you need. You know. Something of, or want or, you know.

CLIENT: Right. And it, it’s, it’s an intimacy that’s not burdened by needing to live with this person in the real world. You know. But, that’s what makes these things possible, right. That’s why the doctor, patient thing works. Because I don’t need to worry about what you think of me outside of this context. You know. [00:50:00]

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: It doesn’t matter. I’m probably never going to see you. And, if I do, it’s like oh, hey, hi, Carl. Oh, hi Sam.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And, that’s probably about it. Right. Like, you don’t hang out with your psychologist when you see them in the world.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: It just doesn’t really happen. I would totally acknowledge you and not be embarrassed about saying this is my psychologist, Carl. At the same time, I don’t think we’re going to get much. Like, nothing personal, Carl. You know, but, like, it just doesn’t seem like the way these relationships work. You know. Just like I don’t want you to meet my cam girl. You know. This is, this exists in a particular. And, that is what makes a relationship possible.

THERAPIST: No. I hear you, yeah. Yeah. In some ways, it sounds like you feel that it, it actually facilitates that in some way?

CLIENT: I guess so. That makes sense. This is more your realm than mine, I guess. But, like, you know.

THERAPIST: No. I think it’s more yours. In the way you experience it. And, that, that, well, I was thinking about it in reference to Helen in some way. You entering in to that knowing it’s discrete. [00:51:20]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It’s a discrete period of time and that you don’t, you can walk away or something along that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Or, it, it...

THERAPIST: You know it can come back together.

CLIENT: Yeah. It being, it exists when it needs to exist and ceases to exist and there’s no, there’s no ties there. I mean, there are. They’re like I miss her.

THERAPIST: Yes. You know.

CLIENT: I miss her and I’ll never see her again and that makes me a little sad.

THERAPIST: Yes. Yeah.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: That’s real. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. But, but there’s no obligation outside of that time.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I see. No obligation.

CLIENT: Which makes it very freeing. You know. It makes it very freeing. Yeah and then just, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Wow.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Now, the obligation...

CLIENT: Bababooie. Bababooie. Write that down, kids.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Sorry. I’m going to have fun with it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. They might be checking how do you spell Bababooie.

CLIENT: Yeah, well, you know, B A B A B O O I E. Bababoie. Look it up. Anyways. So.

THERAPIST: Google it.

CLIENT: Yeah. Google. Google knows everything. And, so, therefore, so do our children. You know how they can find anything.

THERAPIST: They can find it.

CLIENT: Yeah. Alright. Next Thursday?

THERAPIST: Next Thursday.

CLIENT: Are you going away at some point soon?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: No. You did it already and now you’re back.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Alright.

THERAPIST: No. Nothing planned right now.

CLIENT: Which is great. Ginny’s away for the weekend, so I might go feral again. Do a double dose.

THERAPIST: Where is she going?

CLIENT: Chicago to see her mom for a long weekend.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay. So.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

THERAPIST: Alright. Yeah.

END TRANSCRIPT