TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Now, if I tell you something, this is supposed to be what, confidential?

THERAPIST: Yes, it is.

CLIENT: Okay, but now what if I told you about something that was like child endangerment? Would it be you to call up the child endangerment or I don’t know what it’s called?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Like Child Protective Services?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, somebody. It depends on the situation, but if it was, if it was a child was in some sort of danger that you knew about I’d have to say something. Yeah.

CLIENT: Okay. I’ll tell you about it when I can write back. Oh well. I can just do it in my arm.

THERAPIST: Do you?

CLIENT: Everything’s in the pen.

THERAPIST: Oh, I see. Okay.

CLIENT: It’s so much easier.

THERAPIST: But, maybe, Louise, I can help you figure out what to do about it.

CLIENT: Okay. Well, it’s my cousin, Laura, as usual. Devon had come down two weekends ago with the boys and James is James. A typical four year old boy. Well, Laura retired from work at the age of 50 and what she does is she still stays home all day and sleeps. Well, I guess, James one day decided he was going to flood the bathroom downstairs in the basement and when Devon came home, the water was up to the door so that it would go out under the door and out to the outside.

So, when Devon came home, the water was just flooding out. There’s James sitting in a bean bag in the middle of the floor floating.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Having a hell of a good time. Where’s Laura? Right upstairs in the bedroom, asleep. [00:02:35]

Another incident was he had a buzz cut and Louise says let me show you why he has the buzz cut. Well, he got in to the electric razors and shaved a big, big chunk right out of his head and then a few on the side. And, I said oh, how is he doing at night time? Does he go to bed for you? Oh, yeah. We give him melatonin which is over the counter and we give him two pills and he’s asleep like that. You know, what happens if all of a sudden he as a reaction to the melatonin or he thinks it’s okay to take because mommy already gives it to me and takes it. I mean just giving it to him to begin with I think.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: What? You don’t want the doctor to know that, you know, you want sleep medication for your son. So, you buy over the counter stuff. I’m afraid it would build up in his system or something.

THERAPIST: Yeah. They should have a, yeah, I mean, like, they should be having a doctor.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: To talk to.

CLIENT: You don’t give that to a kid under four. Under five.

THERAPIST: Well, they should be talking to their pediatrician about all that if they’re going to do anything.

CLIENT: I mean I know it’s over the counter. You know. But, big deal. Over the counter. I mean that would be something I would take. Not a child.

THERAPIST: Who was telling you about this? Devon?

CLIENT: Devon. So, then he comes up with this I have finally come to the conclusion that there’s something wrong with Laura mentally. I said you’re finally coming to the conclusion. I said let’s face it, she doesn’t even work anymore. She retired from work at the age of 50 because it was too tiring for her. I said I know she has a lot of migraines. She winds up in the hospital. They send her home. She’s home in bed for three days. There’s no one watching the children. Mother is down in Georgia, so Jackie’s not even near to help her out, and as I said, the kids are on their own again. I mean, I know, James goes to school, but he doesn’t go all day.

THERAPIST: But they’re going to, yeah, she’s off in bed?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Kind of just sleeping.

CLIENT: Asleep.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And, she sleeps in a dead sleep.

THERAPIST: What, does Devon think she’s using any kind of drugs? Pain medication. You know, too much pain medication or something like that?

CLIENT: Probably like that.

THERAPIST: That kind of thing.

CLIENT: No. No. She probably needs medication is what it is. Now, Mary said there is such a thing that is called chronic fatigue and it’s diagnosed. So, quote why doesn’t Laura see if that’s what’s wrong with her? I mean, she’s a young woman. 50 years old.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. She shouldn’t be this tired.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: The kid’s needs aren’t getting cared for.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: The way they need to. Yeah.

CLIENT: You know. It’s like hey, if we’re hungry after school. Quote, fend for ourselves.

THERAPIST: What did, when Devon called you, what was he?

CLIENT: Well, he came by with the two boys because I had some shirts for them and everything.

THERAPIST: When was the last time you had seen them?

CLIENT: James was two.

THERAPIST: You’ve got to be kidding me. It’s been two years?

CLIENT: I missed his third birthday. I missed his fourth birthday.

THERAPIST: I didn’t know it had been that long.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Oh, boy.

CLIENT: Yeah. During the summer.

THERAPIST: The summer two years ago?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay. Of 2011.

CLIENT: Yes. You know. And, I wouldn’t mind. James is no worse than Albert was when Albert was his age and I started babysitting him.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: And, Albert would stay up until 11:00pm at night and they thought that was fine. But, now, all of a sudden, James, he gets melatonin. I’m going to pick up a bottle and see what the, what it says on the directions and who can have it and who can’t. But, I know it’s not good for children.

THERAPIST: How did Devon describe it to you?

CLIENT: He, he’s like, I said well, how’s he doing sleeping at night? He goes oh, he sleeps fine. We give him two melatonin’s and he’s out like a light.

THERAPIST: Oh. Okay. Yeah.

CLIENT: By 7:00pm.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What did you say?

CLIENT: I just didn’t say anything.

THERAPIST: You didn’t say anything. Yeah. Yeah. [00:08:00]

CLIENT: He says it’s over the counter. I just turned around and shook my head.

THERAPIST: But, then he went on to talk about Laura’s mental health problems?

CLIENT: Yeah. About how she retired from work and I mean let’s face it, she got a good pension. She worked in the school system for like 25 years, so.

THERAPIST: She had been doing this since she was in like her 20’s?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. So, she’ll get a pension. Yeah. Yeah. But, she’s not being able, she’s not able to kind of function as a mom.

CLIENT: No. No.

THERAPIST: As far as, you know, what you’re hearing from Laura. Yeah. Is Laura worried about it? How is Laura?

CLIENT: He’s just like ha, ha, ha.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay. [00:09:00]

CLIENT: I mean A, he flooded the toilet while his mother was upstairs sleeping. Isn’t that warning number one? He shaved his hair. Warning number two. Another time he went and got up to the bread box thing, got out the bread, ripped a hole in the plastic and put it, buttered it and put it in the toaster. And, that was when he was two. So, I mean. I think to myself, well, you know this kid is floating around in a pool of water. What happens if you have an outlet right here and the water goes in the outlet and he puts the light on?

THERAPIST: No. I know.

CLIENT: He’d fry.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s risky.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: I mean it’s, it’s a situation where there, there could be potentially at risk a lot.

CLIENT: Yeah. And, he knows how to put the television on and all that stuff.

THERAPIST: Who else sees them? Who else sees them? [00:10:00]

CLIENT: They might have a kid on the street babysit them, but that’s about it.

THERAPIST: And, how involved is Jackie and...

CLIENT: Well, Jackie is down in Georgia. She won’t come back until the end of May, I think.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So, she has been gone since January.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It’s just her and Laura.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay. And, does anybody else in their life check in with them at all?

CLIENT: Well, Jackie. Yeah. Laura’s father was around, but he’s as loose as a goose.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, it seems to me like Devon is the one that you need to talk to about this, about your concerns and it’s going to be very important, I think, how you put it to him. But, yeah. That, that you’re concerned and you certainly feel like, well, Laura needs help and if she’s going to be, she needs help being a mom right now.

CLIENT: They’ll tell Jackie. I’ll get another nasty phone call from Jackie to say stay out of her children’s life. Devon and I have a plan. Well, they thought they had a plan two and half years ago and nothing has been done about it.

THERAPIST: Right. Right.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What, what, what is Devon, does Devon have any thoughts about how to help Laura out? Has he been thinking about, does he feel like she should get some help?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: He doesn’t?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Okay. [00:12:00]

CLIENT: Well, he probably does, but he won’t admit it.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay.

CLIENT: You know, he just goes with the flow. You know? So. I, you know, I don’t know. I’m just, you know?

THERAPIST: How would it go if you talk to Devon about your concerns? Would he, would he, I know you might call Jackie, but would he, how would he react?

CLIENT: No, because he’s afraid that the boys will be taken away from them. You know, they’re not married. So, I mean she would get custody of the kids, but what good is she? He doesn’t have anything documented down. [00:13:00]

THERAPIST: Well. I, I think, you know, there might be a way of going about this without, you know, having to go to that step of you or him reporting anybody at that point. What, what I’m thinking is that somebody medically should know what’s going on with Laura.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And, and that it’s a very serious situation that, you know, and the way, the way to kind of, I think angle this is that mom needs help and the kids need more. Mom needs help to take care of the kids and herself better.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, and, not in a, you know, not in a way that, you’re not trying to attack anybody. You’re just looking out for the best interest of the kids and mom is the key to that. And, if mom can’t take care of the kids right, then, then you start thinking about well, who can help out? And, that’s a long way from saying the kids are going in to somebody else’s custody.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: There’s a lot of stuff that could go on before that. A lot.

CLIENT: She’s already had DSS called on her years ago when Ted was a child.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. And, then you set up the whole kind of whistle blower relationship.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And am I in trouble? What they need is help.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What she needs is help.

CLIENT: Yes. Definitely.

THERAPIST: And, there are a lot of programs that, you know, that will do things like have home visits. Make sure mom’s doing okay. How do you help mom become more engaged?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Does she need medical treatment? Does she need parenting help? Does she need, you know, some kind of programs for the kids to go while she gets some sleep if she’s really that tired and sick? [00:15:00]

CLIENT: Well, what the heck is she tired from?

THERAPIST: Well.

CLIENT: She’s not doing anything.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And, and that’s something to be concerned about too.

CLIENT: I know she’s home with those, you know, the boys are in school. Albert goes to, you know, he’s in the second grade. He goes from like quarter past eight in the morning until, you know, two thirty, three o’clock.

THERAPIST: Is she depressed? Do you think she might be depressed?

CLIENT: More than likely. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean with Laura, with the job teaching, it was either retire or get fired. Because there was a new principal in and she has been, had been after Laura since she, you know, started there.

THERAPIST: Not happy with her work?

CLIENT: Well, Laura was always late.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Always late for school.

THERAPIST: Oh. [00:16:00]

CLIENT: Oh yeah. You know, because we can’t wake up in the morning when he yells in Laura, come on, time to get up for school. He’s already got all the lunches made. Her lunch made to take to school. His lunch to take to work. He even closed his office in Providence and moved his office so that he could be closer. So, I don’t, I don’t know. Excuse me.

THERAPIST: And he’s, Devon is living with her now, again?

CLIENT: I don’t know where he sleeps.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay. But, he’s there.

CLIENT: He’s there.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know. I don’t know. What do you do? When she was teaching school, she would have to go home because of a migraine and she would be out all week. You know. If I do that, if the medication isn’t working for you that you’re on, I said why don’t you try Botox, Laura? Oh. I never thought of that. I said yeah. I said I’ve been getting the injections and it works fine. I haven’t had a headache since. I don’t know. [00:17:30]

THERAPIST: Yeah, no, mom needs help.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Mom needs help. She’s overwhelmed for whatever reason and she needs some kind of, she needs more attention. In order for her, for the kids, the kids need some, the kids need more oversight.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: They need more structure. Somebody watching over them.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. I mean it’s not like she has all the paperwork to do from the teaching and, you know, all that stuff because that used to keep her up all night long. You know. So, she doesn’t have that stress in her life anymore. The only stress she has is those two boys.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, if she’s, you know, if she’s overwhelmed by the, by the task then she deserves some help to get these kids to feel, to be safe and to be at home and watched over or somebody to be watching them more. You know, somebody, somebody to help out.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. You know, that was the whole agenda for me being there.

THERAPIST: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean if she had called the police I should have just let her call the police. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah. What was she calling the police about? I can’t even remember what the hell it was. [00:19:00]

CLIENT: She called the police on me because I was taking the boys to the movies. She was in sleeping. I went in and told her. I said Laura, I’m getting the boys ready to go to the movies. I brought the car seat. Put it in my car. I was just putting James in and Albert was already in the car and she was screaming out the door that I’m kidnapping her kids.

THERAPIST: Oh, boy.

CLIENT: I’m going to call the fucking police on you. And, of course, that’s all poor James had to hear. Was the word police and he started crying hysterical and I said to myself, well, this kid has seen his father being taken out of the house by police. He has seen his older brother taken out of the house by the police. Hey. Auntie Louise’s going by the police too. You know.

THERAPIST: Yes. Well, as you’re saying, it might not. I mean it would have been very traumatic, but it would have been some way for the, for more eyes to be on the situation.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:20:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how, how would you feel about talking to Devon about, you know, the fact that you really, from your experience and what you know about what he has to said you and what you know about Laura is that she needs some more help and those kids don’t seem particularly safe to you? And, not to make any kind of mention at this point of DCF or whatever.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But, but more to say what your concerns are.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, that, you know, he’s telling you for a reason. You know?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: He’s telling because he, he at some level is worried.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: How to approach Laura seems like a big question.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: How do you get Laura some help?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, it not to be. I think mom’s in those situations feel like oh, no, you know, you’re telling me I’m a lousy mother and I can’t do it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, the last thing they want to, they’ll just, you know, stop you before you start.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: If they feel that’s going on. There’s so much shame going on there. So, it’s how do you get Laura some help without it being humiliating to her?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think. [00:21:30]

CLIENT: Definitely. You know. I just don’t know what to do, but I’ll figure something out. You know. Kelly’s going if that was me, I would have called all the cops. Get on the phone and call DSS.

THERAPIST: Well. I mean that, I think that is one of the final things that you’re left to if all else, all else fails, but, you know, that’s obviously is going to be pretty traumatic to everybody.

CLIENT: Yeah. See, I don’t want it being traumatic to James and Albert.

THERAPIST: I mean if it has to be because there’s something about them being in danger, then you’ve got to do it. But, if you can do something before that, you know, something, you know, that’s, that gets at the issue in a way that is less threatening to Laura, I guess.

CLIENT: I, I know.

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you can talk to Jackie about this?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: No. Jackie’s youngest, the boy, Jonas, he’s in a mental facility.

THERAPIST: For what?

CLIENT: He’s a psychopath. Bi-polar. You name it, he has got it. You know. One time he put aluminum all on his windows because he didn’t want the aliens getting him. You know. Oh yeah. [00:23:00]

THERAPIST: What did he get arrested for?

CLIENT: Oh, no. He didn’t get arrested. Well, I think he has, but it has always been squashed probably. No. He just went off the cuckoo’s nest.

THERAPIST: Oh. He got hospitalized?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Oh. Okay.

CLIENT: He’s down there. He’s been hospitalized.

THERAPIST: He’s at the mental health facility.

CLIENT: Mental health.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I got you. Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah. So. I think Laura is, like, on the verge of nervous breakdown. That’s what I think.

THERAPIST: Oh, I think it has already happened.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: She’s broken down.

CLIENT: Yeah. Oh well.

THERAPIST: Oh well? Yeah.

CLIENT: I got my life to worry about.

THERAPIST: No, no. I got you. No. No. I know. I hear you. I hear you.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: I hear you. Yeah, you’re worried about them.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know. So. Two more things to think about days. My, everything’s been going great between me and Mark. He has been so good it’s unreal. I don’t know. And, the way he treats me and everything now.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: You know. Picks me up. We go for a ride. You know, do I want to do any shopping? He’ll take me, but he’s got to, I have to remember that, you know, he’s got to pick up Ivy and I said that’s no problem. You know. Please. What was that? Not yesterday. Wednesday. He decided we were going to have sex. We no sooner got in to the bedroom and his phone rings. It’s Keisha. I said you better answer it. So, she said when are you coming home, daddy? He says in a while. I’m only right down the street. I’ll be home in a while. Are you alright? Yeah. Is anything happening? No. He says okay.

Well, no sooner got ready to have the sex and the phone rings again. So, I just get up and go in the bathroom and, you know, decided to get dressed again. I hear him. He’s off the phone now and he says to me get in the bedroom and get those clothes off again. He says I don’t care. We’re having sex. I said well, alright. Fine by me. You know. I’m not going to object. You know. Yesterday we were having sex again. Two days in a row. Whew. Wow. I don’t know what I did to be so lucky there. Well, besides getting rid of Deborah. He no sooner comes in the door of the house and my phone rings and it says it’s the hospital. And, I say to myself oh, Jesus Christ it’s the wife on the fucking phone. [00:26:30]

THERAPIST: Oh, because she’s over there.

CLIENT: Because she works there. Right? I said, somebody most have followed him here and she probably saw on his thing calls from Deborah and I say to myself oh, fuck, she knows he’s here. I’m not answering the fucking phone. I said the hospital is on the phone. He goes she doesn’t know this number. I never gave it to her. And, I said, yeah, okay, fine. He said don’t be concerned. I’m like oh, alright. Okay. Fine.

THERAPIST: They didn’t leave a message?

CLIENT: No. They didn’t even leave a message. Right.

THERAPIST: Oh. Do you have any, do you see anybody at the hospital?

CLIENT: Not me.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Not I. None of my doctors are at the hospital.

THERAPIST: So, they wouldn’t just be calling for something.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Oh. Okay.

CLIENT: Right. So. I said I, you know, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Why else would they call?

CLIENT: It doesn’t, it doesn’t seem to faze him.

THERAPIST: No, no. He’s not worried.

CLIENT: I said well.

THERAPIST: Because he could have gotten his, she could have gotten the number off your, his phone.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like who is, why has he been calling this woman all the, at this number all this time?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And then calls from that phone. [00:28:00]

CLIENT: Right. I said oh no.

THERAPIST: But, he’s not fazed?

CLIENT: Nope. He said what’s she going to do? Throw me out? I said that could happen. Well, he says you know where I’m coming to say. I said yeah, your mother’s (laughter).

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I just don’t, you know, know what to do with him.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, just to, just to touch back, did you feel like to talking to me about the whole Laura thing was a wash or was it useful or not useful? Did you feel like you, was I helpful in a way you’re looking for or no? [00:29:00]

CLIENT: I want someone else to be the person to call.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yes.

CLIENT: I don’t want to be.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: The one.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It’s like I’m saying do I say something to Donald or do I say something to Genevieve?

THERAPIST: Oh, you don’t want to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is, well, what, tell me about that. What, what if, what if you’re the person?

CLIENT: I don’t know. I mean Kelly says they don’t ask for a name, but I don’t want to be the one that is accused of it. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I can see the phone call from Jackie. I can see the phone call from her sister, Mimm. Excuse me. Mimm, who is a social worker and should know all this stuff. You know?

THERAPIST: Oh. I see.

CLIENT: The other sister who is a teacher also. Jackie who thinks she’s a doctor. You know, she knows how to take care of her kids. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. No, you want me to, yeah, if me or Genevieve did it, then it would be, you wouldn’t be the guy.

CLIENT: The father’s an alcoholic. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. And, does, does, does, kind of talking to Devon about your concern about, or your, you say, you’re suggesting to Devon that she get some help as opposed to the DCF stuff? Does that seem like a route that would be less threatening to him or to Jackie and to Laura?

CLIENT: I mean they were seeing a psychiatrist. I mean as far as I was concerned, he wasn’t doing anything.

THERAPIST: I wonder if he knew everything. I bet they didn’t tell her what, tell that psychiatrist everything that’s going on.

CLIENT: I mean definitely, she definitely needs to be on, you know, Abilify or anything. Anaflexa. Afexa. You name it.

THERAPIST: Well, she needs some support around those kids.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Too. They need some.

CLIENT: You know. If they can get her someone to come in and play with the kids in the afternoon, fine.

THERAPIST: Exactly. Yeah.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, if she wants to sleep all morning, all morning, she can.

THERAPIST: Exactly. There’s a program out there for her to take him, to take him to so she can sleep.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. You know. There’s got to be after school programs for the two of them.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So.

THERAPIST: It’s very, Louise, it’s very, very hard not to try to help a mom in this situation. I think, as you’re, as you’re well aware of because the moms can experience such shame and humiliation about it.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: And, so the help is almost, it’s really hard, and, and not good when the mom can’t take help. [00:32:00]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It’s, it’s really a bad sign for things and it then becomes a real trick about how do you get them to get some more help. It’s maybe one of the hardest things to do in these, in any of these kinds of family situations.

CLIENT: Yeah. It is.

THERAPIST: And, it’s important, though that you’re noticing this. I think you’re trying to, trying to, trying to work a way out that doesn’t threaten them, but also gets your point across. It doesn’t make you the one of the bad guys and alienate yourself from the family. But, you don’t want, you also want to be helpful. You want them to get, you want them to get the help. You want them to be, the children to be protected and safe.

CLIENT: Yeah. I definitely want that. I don’t know. I’ll try. They’re all in Georgia now. So, when Devon comes back I’ll see if I can arrange to have him come over for coffee by himself or something and see where it goes from there.

THERAPIST: Yeah, Louise, I think what you laid out to me was really lovely about your, kind of your concerns about the children. It sounds like you’re concerned about her.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean lovely in the sense that you care. You care about that family. Your, your heart is in the right place.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean if Devon wanted to pick me up in the afternoon and bring me up there.

THERAPIST: Can I help out? I’m happy to help out.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, this way here she can either take a nap or do her laundry or whatever she’s got to do. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: I can occupy the boys.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: There’s a lot of help out there for her to have. There really is.

CLIENT: But, see, I don’t know if she will qualify for a lot of the programs because of the amount of income. [00:34:30]

THERAPIST: Oh, you mean like a hospital kind of thing?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Well, if they have insurance.

CLIENT: Yeah. That should pay for it.

THERAPIST: The, the insurance pays for a lot of things.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Home visits to help moms out. Home visits to check in on the kids. Talk to the kids. Programs for kids to have.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: There are a lot of resources out there for her.

CLIENT: Yeah. I, I really don’t think she should have had James. I think Albert was enough. I mean she had James when she was 47. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah. It’s like she’d like to retire from.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: From being a mom.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know.

THERAPIST: And, that, that kind of, with all of the over sight that she’s, that’s required of her. Keeping tab on the kids.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Making sure that they get to bed at a good time. If they’re screaming at night, what do you do with them?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You know.

CLIENT: Yeah. I said if, you know, if the children are too busy yacking away in there. You know? Put them in separate bedrooms. You have an extra bedroom. Yes, it’s Ted’s, but let Albert sleep in there so that when James is in his room in his bed, maybe he will go off to sleep by himself.

If you poop him out enough during the day. Not shove him down in the cellar watching television, rather than outside in the back yard, but, then again, Laura you can’t keep an eye on them out there either. That’s how he sleeps. He says fuck bed time. [00:36:15]

THERAPIST: Right. Right. Right. Right. No, she, she it sounds like for whatever reason right now she is overwhelmed and over, over taxed by the, by doing all that she needs to do to keep them.

CLIENT: I mean if they ever put a pool in that yard. I had a pool in that yard. James would be, he would have drowned by now because Laura would have left him out there with no supervision and it’s unreal.

Last night on the news, I don’t know if you watched it, how long it took for a three year old to open up those caps that say, you know, say child proof things?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It took one six year old girl. She opened every single one out of like maybe fifteen that they had. They had bottles. They had pills things. I can’t even twist them off. I said unreal. It took a, a three year old six seconds to get a cap off. So, can you imagine? You know? And, that kid gets in to everything.

THERAPIST: You know, the whole thing’s a toy box.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Hey mom’s asleep, let’s, you know, let’s explore.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Mom needs to be there.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Mom needs to be awake and watching.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:00]

CLIENT: I mean. I’ve got the hiccups. Devon drives both of them to school in the morning. He has them both up and dressed. She stays in bed.

THERAPIST: Well, you know, Louise, how you, you said you don’t want to be the one, in, in…

CLIENT: Should I run out and pay the meter?

THERAPIST: No. No. Just some coins. You know, when you, as you’re talking about you taking, I think it might be good for you to kind of put a little bit of concern in to, in to Devon.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. I can even get the bus that goes there.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That stops at the end of her street.

THERAPIST: Well, that would be really good, but I also think that Devon, Devon needs to be on this a bit more. This isn’t. You’re not in a great position to help.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Especially Laura, but what you can do I think is, is, is raise some concerns and not, not in a threatening way. But, in a way that comes out a concerns and wanting the best for the kids and Laura and that he should, he should be worried about the family.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, she needs to take some action here.

CLIENT: Even if he wants to drop them off at my house after school, there’s the park right up the street. The school yard. It’s all enclosed and has all those new fandangle things that they can go on and everything. You know. And, I walk up there because I, I walk up there so Mark can take me shopping. Or, he’ll be at the house with the dog and the two of us will walk up and he runs in with the dog and I sit out in the car and away we go.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I don’t want to, you know, say that, you know, tell you what to do, but, but Devon’s.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I don’t mean to be coming across that way, Louise. [00:40:00]

CLIENT: No. I know. But, I think he knows how I stand with the whole situation.

THERAPIST: I think if he’s coming to you talking about this, yeah, yeah, he, he’s maybe he needs a little bit of a oh, you see it too.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You’re worried too.

CLIENT: And, I know those kids must of, when they went back must have said I saw Auntie Louise. You know?

THERAPIST: Well, it would be good to have you in their lives.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You in their lives. It would be good.

CLIENT: The first thing James said when he saw me was what happened to your hair? It was because of the pink. I had a little pink in it. I said why? And he says it’s all gone. I said well, when Auntie Louise had her birthday last year, they took my super power away and they gave them to a younger girl because they said I was getting too old to fly and Albert goes they did? I said yeah and James goes of course they did.

THERAPIST: (laughter)

CLIENT: And, I said oh. Goodness gracious. What a memory on that kid.

THERAPIST: Yeah. How about that. Two years ago?

CLIENT: Two years ago. He’s a sweetheart. Yes.

THERAPIST: Yeah. No. It would good for her, for Laura to take the help that you can offer.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, have a little support.

CLIENT: But, then Jackie will be home, so Jackie can do it. I’ll take the boys, but I can only take them on certain days.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: What certain days are those? You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:42:00]

CLIENT: Or, I can see Laura taking those boys out on the boat, and just, you know, just sitting there thinking hey, let me just take my life and their life. You know? I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Well, what’s that? What do you mean?

CLIENT: Well, she takes the boat out with the two boys.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But, you know, right now she’s feeling depressed. What, what makes you think she’s not going to maybe feel suicidal sometime? You know? She’s going to have the pressure with Ted coming home from college during the summer and living at the house. Not coming home nights. Sneaking this girl in. Sneaking this friend in. You know? He raises holy hell when they’re not around. It’s like party city. So. You know? I, I don’t know. All I can say is good luck. I want to help, but I don’t think I can do it.

THERAPIST: Which part? You know, when you say that, what are you thinking you can’t do? [00:43:30]

CLIENT: I don’t think I can help out with taking the boys. I don’t.

THERAPIST: It’s too much on you? Is that it?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t want to get involved.

THERAPIST: Oh. Okay.

CLIENT: I don’t.

THERAPIST: Okay. I see. Okay.

CLIENT: I don’t.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Because, as I say, the wrath of the Morris girls will be the downfall of me.

THERAPIST: Oh. Oh, okay. That’s what you’re concerned about.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: This is what you’re concerned about.

CLIENT: Yes. I can’t. I can’t deal with it. I don’t have the patience. I walked out of the hospital the other night. I was in there for a sleep study and they had this little Thai guy on. They told me be there at 8:30. I was still sitting in the waiting room at 10:00 because he had a difficult patient that came in ahead of me and took up all his time. Well, he comes by the room and he says to me I’ll be with you shortly. I said no, I’m leaving and I got my pillows. Mind you, I went dressed in my pajamas. I went up to the Emergency Room to the receptionist desk there and I know the girl. Her mother lives in my apartment. I said when you get off from work would you take, could you drive me home? So, she says I don’t get off until 10:30. I said hey, what’s that? It’s only another half hour. So, I’m sitting out in the emergency room and that little stubborn Thai guy is still there. You come. You come back. I do you now. I said no. You little stubborn shit, leave me the fuck alone. Right. I think they were just like in total shock. I said you think you’re stubborn. I said I’m twice as stubborn. Goodbye. Right. [00:45:35]

THERAPIST: What were you saying though about the Morris girls? The wrath of the Morris girls?

CLIENT: Oh, well, Jackie and Mimm.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Jackie and Laura.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What about the wrath? What is that?

CLIENT: Oh. They would be on my back so fast.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: What, what would they say?

CLIENT: Oh, leave my, you know, what are you doing to my sister? You know, Jackie, stay out of my child’s life. My children’s life. Fine. Good. I’m out of it. I am out of it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, I think, Louise, it’s like if you say something about Laura, you’re saying something about the whole family.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And, how they’re all.

CLIENT: That Jackie didn’t bring her children up right.

THERAPIST: Jackie didn’t bring her children up right. You’re telling them.

CLIENT: They’re all schizoid.

THERAPIST: That they’re all bad news and bad people and when I think you’re, you’re coming out of, out of this at a place of trying to help.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: I mean listen, you’re worried about the kids.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: You know. Now that I’m finally learning how to finagle the bagel on the train and the bus, hey, I’m doing pretty good.

THERAPIST: Good. Good. So, it worked out okay?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Good. Good.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Are they going to be able to set you up with a ride though, or is that over?

CLIENT: Oh, no. I’m still waiting.

THERAPIST: Jesus. You’ve got to be kidding me.

CLIENT: Twenty one business days. And, then they call you in for an interview.

THERAPIST: This is through what, the ride?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yes. Well, Dr. Winchester wrote that I cannot walk distance because of my knees and the chronic pain in my rib cage and dah, dah, dah. And he, you know, I’m surprised I don’t have it by now. But, no, it takes twenty one business days and then they, then you have to come in and see their doctor and he can evaluate you. But, they’ll give you a ride there. I said good, but the day they give me the ride is the day I’m going out in my walker.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Don’t be brave and try to use the cane.

CLIENT: Don’t be brave and use the cane.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: Use the walker.

CLIENT: Bring the walker.

THERAPIST: Bring the walker.

CLIENT: Because it’s, you know, it’s really killing me.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:48:00]

CLIENT: You know. Oh, well, I had a fight at the clinic with them. I told you how I was supposed to go to see Dr. Winchester and supposedly they had called and left me a message that he wasn’t going to be in that day. Well, there was no message on my machine. Who they called, I don’t know. So, I wound up seeing some other doctor and I told her an urinary tract infection and I needed more medication because the medication I was on had already run out. Well, how do you know you still have it? I said because I know. I know my body. Well, I want to talk about your constipation and your diabetes. I said talk all you want because I’m not going to listen to it. So, I left there just and I said fuck it, I’ll wait until Winchester comes back. Good bye and I walked out of there.

She gave me a list for the labs. I went up to the labs and there was like five people ahead of me. I took that lab slip, rolled it up in a ball and threw it in the trash. The guy Jeremy’s going Louise, did you take a ticket? I said ticket this, will you, Jeremy? Bye. I go on and then I missed my bus. I was aggravated over that, so I took a taxi home. It cost me fifteen dollars.

THERAPIST: Jesus.

CLIENT: And, I gave the guy a five dollar tip. And, I wouldn’t mind, but he didn’t even know where he was fucking going. I had to give him directions. Mark. Why didn’t you call me? I said because I didn’t know if you had the car or not. Well, you could have called and asked. I said just leave me alone. [00:50:00]

THERAPIST: So, we’re on for next week then? You’re going to make it?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Of course.

THERAPIST: Good. Good.

CLIENT: Of course. I tell you. I’ve got the hang of it.

THERAPIST: Good. How long did it take you?

CLIENT: I was downstairs having breakfast.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I was here. I was here by quarter past nine.

THERAPIST: Oh. Okay. Okay.

CLIENT: From the bus station and then to the train.

THERAPIST: Oh, good. Okay. Good.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: And, for my walk to here, it only took, as I said 9:15.

THERAPIST: Oh. Okay. Yes.

CLIENT: I got my whole breakfast. I took two bites of scrambled eggs. A bite of a sausage and that was it. The rest is all in my bag because I was going to start to heave if I ate anymore.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I just love this. I just love it. You know.

THERAPIST: It isn’t easy.

CLIENT: No. So, Mark’s supposed to come by and give me some money to hold on to and so when next week when he asks me for money I can just hand him his own money. We’ll see how that goes because I know he’s not going to shape up.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I told my brother, Jim, about you. I said you did what? Yeah. He came up to visit. He didn’t bring his family up, so he says we went out. He says and I told him all about you and that I have been seeing you for three years. Three years. I go oh, Jesus Christ, Mark. Get a life. Go back with the wife.

THERAPIST: You say that.

CLIENT: I say that but I don’t mean it.

THERAPIST: You don’t mean it. [00:52:00]

CLIENT: Yes. Hey. He tells me he’s never going to give me up. I’m stuck with him forever. And, I love you. And, I won’t say anything. He says aren’t you going to say it back and I say you know I love you I said, but I don’t know if you love me. Oh, God.

THERAPIST: You’ve got to tell me, Mark.

CLIENT: Yeah. You’ve got to tell me that every 15 minutes or so.

THERAPIST: It helps. It sounds like it helps.

CLIENT: Yes. Are we up and over?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Until next week.

CLIENT: Okay. I can handle that.

THERAPIST: Until next week.

CLIENT: And, if anybody bothers me on the T, I’ll just whack them with my cane.

THERAPIST: So, what did you do?

CLIENT: I’ll trip them.

THERAPIST: You took.

CLIENT: Right at the end of my street.

END TRANSCRIPT