TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Thank you for being flexible yesterday. Having an onset of vertigo. (inaudible at 00:00:14) So.
THERAPIST: Okay. Do you I do have another time on Friday afternoon.
CLIENT: What time do you have?
THERAPIST: I have 5:15.
CLIENT: It's quite likely I can make that I just need to verify (inaudible at 00:00:33).
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: Do you want to let me know either way or ?
CLIENT: I will e-mail you if I can't make it. How about that?
THERAPIST: Okay. So I will assume you can unless I hear otherwise.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay. And do you know when you'll let me know?
CLIENT: Hopefully as soon as I get home.
THERAPIST: All right. No problem.
CLIENT: Yeah they of course I have some sort of mysterious onslaught of vertigo and nausea. [00:01:01]
THERAPIST: Right. I'm sorry. One other scheduling thing before we go any further.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Next week.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So I'm in both Tuesday and Wednesday as usual. I'll be around. I don't know if you will. (inaudible at 00:01:12).
CLIENT: I will be. As far as I know. Thanksgiving (inaudible) right?
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Yeah as far as I know I'm not going anywhere. So.
THERAPIST: Okay. Vertigo. Strange (inaudible at 00:01:24) vertigo.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I (inaudible) by the doctor.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And luckily it was not anything too bad. Bad news is they because I have so many autoimmune problems they sort of lump everything together. They do know that I have inflammation in the inside of my ear right now that's not infected. They're calling it [lamproitis]. Which basically means that the inside of your ear is swollen. And they're like, "Yeah probably immune system." [00:01:48]
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: Yeah. So. I'm like, "Great. What do I do?" And they're like, "Well we can give you these pills but they're going to make you really sleepy." And I'm like, "Well that's fine I guess. If I get really bad again then I guess I'll take them."
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: But yeah. More or less it's Dramamine type stuff.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Yeah so. But it's just a little frustrating.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: It's very disorienting and upsetting to have it happen. So it usually goes away which is good but yeah.
THERAPIST: How bad did it get?
CLIENT: It's still bothering me quite a bit but it got really bad. As in like gripping the wall of the shower throwing up all over myself kind of yeah. That was a very low moment in my self-esteem. Right then. So. But it's the reason why I think it's very disoriented (inaudible at 00:02:59). So. But it's supposed to get better. [00:03:03]
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: Usually it does at least.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I just kind of got mouthy with my doctor about it. If you're going to give me something that's going to make me sleepy I'm not going to take it. It's like I'm already exhausted enough as it is.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And they were pretty much understandable about that kind of stuff. They'd tell me (inaudible at 00:03:28) last of it and then only when I have to. Don't just keep taking it. So. But I just needed to push out the fact that I can't have anything else that's going to sedate me at this point in my life. I'm just so tired all the time now. But they're going to test my thyroid too. So. Not to do with this but because I'm insistent that I'm exhausted. [00:03:50]
And I'm now officially thirty pounds heavier than I was this spring when I first started saying this. You know? And I'm doing a lot more exercise and I'm doing all of the right things. But they're being you know. So at least I've got them to give me a new thyroid test. So hopefully it will help. But yes that's been pretty much missed a lot of work. Which gives me a lot of anxiety. One for money but also for making waves. That kind of thing.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Which days were you out?
CLIENT: Sunday and Monday. So. And Sunday is a really important day for me to work because I get time and a half on that day. So.
THERAPIST: Yeah. So money wise.
CLIENT: Yeah. So eight hours (inaudible at 00:04:53) is worth a lot more than any other day of the week. But I just couldn't do it.
THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause from 00:04:58 until 00:05:04)
CLIENT: And so you know. It's kind of frustrating. I wanted to go home Thanksgiving. I'm not because I have to work that Friday. Which usually I at least get asked to work but this time I just got scheduled to work. So I'm a little frustrated but I'll be going home the week after that. So. For a few days. In it's own way kind of better because from what I understand due to the gas rationing. And a bunch of other things. Along with the fact that there is always traffic during that time so it'll be a lot easier. [00:05:46]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But my friend has noticed that gas is up more than a dollar. Like (inaudible at 00:05:53) since they started rationing. So I don't know what that means. But yeah. But at least I'll get a chance to get home which is good. I miss home. I miss my dog. So. Yeah. I'm glad to know that she's having a good time. My parents took her out to this one place this big park thing. And they said she had a great time barking at the ducks and all this stuff. And I'm really happy to know that she's having a good time. I just miss her.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So. (pause at 00:06:30 until 00:06:37) But that's pretty much all that's been going on really with us anymore. Just struggling. Day to day. Personally with my energy levels. Of course with my mood. You know. [00:06:54]
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: Yeah. Kind of (pause at 00:07:04 until 00:07:09). Everyone has like certain things that they certain symptoms that they don't deal well with. Nausea is one blow that I'm just it's a serious weakness for me. I don't deal with it very well at all. Not that anyone really likes it but some people are able to go to work hung over or feeling nausea doesn't bother them. Me it's just totally crippling to me. Whereas the pain I can usually find a way to sort of make through it. And I've done some pretty impressive things (inaudible at 00:07:45) pain.
THERAPIST: What was the nausea from?
CLIENT: Due to the fact that I had (inaudible at 00:07:53) thing.
THERAPIST: Oh from the vertigo.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Or at least right now. I've had nausea from I had my gall bladder out at one point. I've had nausea for other things in my life. [00:08:01]
THERAPIST: That's sort of what I figured. (inaudible at 00:08:02)
CLIENT: Yeah. (inaudible) chemo it makes you nauseous.
THERAPIST: Right. Right.
CLIENT: So yeah.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:08:10) last few days.
CLIENT: Last few days have been a lot worse. Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Throwing up on yourself in the shower.
CLIENT: Yeah. That was like I said a low point. It's normally not that bad.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: I just feel (inaudible at 00:08:23). Not real pleasant but it's at least better than it could be. So.
But -
THERAPIST: How much have you been sleeping?
CLIENT: A lot. As much as I can. Pretty much. I mean for me I'm getting at least twelve hours roughly except for days that I'm working. Then I usually get closer to ten. That kind of thing. [00:08:56]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: It's harder to work on my marriage when the first thing I want to do is come home and go to bed. (chuckles)
THERAPIST: I think I can see your point. Yeah.
CLIENT: And it's -.
THERAPIST: Like it's hard to work on anything I guess when you want to come home and go to sleep.
CLIENT: Yeah. So. And when you're fighting disorientation it makes it very hard to, first of all, sound sincere but also just find the words that you're wanting to say. Like as I'm talking to you things are moving around a little bit.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: And so what sounds sometimes like angry, pregnant pauses are more like me just trying to rectify the world around me. [00:09:51]
THERAPIST: Yeah. Is there anything that would help? Like leaning back or -
CLIENT: Not right now. There are some tricks that I can do. Right now I can't do them because I'm not walking. If you're walking looking down helps.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: A couple of other just things like that. But nothing right now.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So. It if it were in the brain, yes. But it's not. They were telling me about this. Like there are three different things. Basically if the vertigo is coming from the brain, from the inner ear or from your eyesight.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: And because if it's in the brain you can do things like positioning. If it's in the inner ear you have to do the things to prove to yourself that the world not proving yourself that the world isn't moving but looking down. Things like that. Or if you have to move kind of keeping your eyes focused on one point while you're doing the moving. And then if it's eyesight things, it's mostly tactile. Like instead of reaching out and grabbing for something, going like this the whole time so it doesn't feel like it's -. [00:10:54]
THERAPIST: I see. Yeah.
CLIENT: Just things to rebalance it. So. Trying really hard to just take things for one day at a time. So. (pause at 00:11:13 until 00:11:20) But it's hard. It's really hard when you have really no control over the day to day things in your life now.
THERAPIST: Absolutely.
CLIENT: I really am trying to get out and do things. Even if it's just errands with my husband just to spend time with him. Because I think that that's part of trying to rebuild this thing is spending time doing something that doesn't involve discussion or something negative. [00:11:54]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And it's kind of hard to go out when you have no energy but I went out and at least did some vague shopping on Saturday which helped a little bit. So.
THERAPIST: Like food shopping or ?
CLIENT: Food shopping.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. So it's funny because I thought it's actually kind of funny. This is how I realized that this was coming on actually. I had gone to Target and the place was just so crazy. And everything was going on and I thought to myself, "My God. I am becoming agoraphobic or something like that." Because the world just seemed like it was reeling and seemed really strange. Like I need to get out of crowds or something. I mean that's why when it's depicted on TV and what I imagine somebody who has serious fear of crowds it would be like.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Like anxiety of being around and everything moving.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But then like later on like, "Wait a second. I'm in the house and things are moving." [00:12:58]
THERAPIST: Right. Yeah.
CLIENT: Mike gets really disoriented in certain types of crowds.
THERAPIST: Oh really?
CLIENT: I'm normally very aware of him talking about the things. It's not usually like that big of a deal. It's mostly things that are super cramped and super, super crowded. Like Wal-Mart on Friday. Not that we ever go there.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: That kind of thing.
THERAPIST: Like mob scene?
CLIENT: Yeah mob scene. Not necessarily a party but something where you have to be hyper aware of everything that is going on around you kind of thing. Because there are kids and all this other this stuff. I guess like a crowd-related thing. So but mostly it doesn't bother him that much. So. I didn't really try to encourage him to try and do things that are positive but yet know when -I feel like because of the fact that he doesn't have that many people in his life right now. I mean he has friends but he doesn't really want to reach out to them and talk to them about any of this. So it's ridiculously isolating being put in the situation of being the person that's doing the coaching (inaudible) of stuff. So. [00:14:14]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But trying to get him to go out there. So like I mentioned to you I've been trying to get him to go out to the gaming thing. And -
THERAPIST: For awhile he was going.
CLIENT: He was going.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:14:23) going too much.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:14:24)
CLIENT: Well I felt like he was going at times that really weren't great.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But he went and he had such a really unpleasant experience on one day that I really feel like we had a conversation which I sort of coached him on how to properly readjust to other people's behavior so that it doesn't happen again. Because he was really upset. So. He had somebody who really, really wanted to talk about their political feelings to the whole thing and just ruined the whole experience for him.
THERAPIST: Oh that's too bad.
CLIENT: Yeah. Like it's the point the person was actually referring to things in terms of eugenics. [00:15:08]
THERAPIST: Whoa!
CLIENT: People who have certain political leanings shouldn't be allowed to breed.
THERAPIST: Oh my God.
CLIENT: Yeah. This really got him really upset. And of course he's not saying what he feels about this because he can't. And he's about ready to blow. He's really upset. Like he's never really blown up at anybody really but it's like you know. I was trying to teach him how to properly say things like this. Things like, "Okay so now the election is over. I was really hoping that we wouldn't have to talk about this kind of stuff."
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: "Or if I really wanted to talk politics we would have picked a political game but we're (inaudible at 00:15:41) pirates right now." Something that get people back onto focus.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: This is something where I have a job where I have little old ladies who have no control over what they say. So I've gotten really good at finding a way to get them back. It's actually little old ladies and toddlers are actually very similar.
THERAPIST: Uh.
CLIENT: In that when they go off and do something you don't want go off in another direction (inaudible at 00:16:02) work really well with this kind of stuff. But just distract them. But this is not really what this is about today. Things that don't say, "I really find this deeply offensive. What you're saying." Instead of confronting it and saying what you want. [00:16:17]
THERAPIST: I see. You corral them.
CLIENT: Corral them into saying, "Okay well we're not playing (inaudible at 00:16:22). We're not playing a political game. Therefore let's keep focus with this."
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And which isn't even acknowledging what they're saying. I do that a lot with old ladies. Something like that. It's like, "I can help you be able to search for things if you're interested in researching politics but -" I think I've mentioned the fact that I've actually on the fly made up (inaudible at 00:16:47) policy about not being permitted to speak about politics.
THERAPIST: (chuckles) Really?
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:16:53) My boss thought that was so funny. Yeah because it's like they put you in these really awkward situations.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: And so. Luckily with my job they don't talk about it too much now because it's over. But apparently at Mike's gaming group there are a couple of people who are really really like to talk about it. Very assertive. And they are unwilling -. [00:17:17]
THERAPIST: Sound really obnoxious.
CLIENT: It's really obnoxious. I try really hard to empathize. I could never actually I can't because having been around people like that I am very open minded that everybody has to find their own path. Mine may be very different but I've never going to try and persuade somebody else to do it. To do something that keeps them awake at night. They have to find their own. My leaning is extremely conservative. But it's my own. It's nobody else's.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: And it really bothers me that people who are supposedly super open minded will tell me that (inaudible at 00:17:53) terrible things. And I'm the person being open minded about their end of things.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Does that make sense? Like I feel like I understand. I can totally see where you're coming from on this. [00:18:01]
THERAPIST: (inaudible) open-minded.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Maybe more progressive in certain ways but certainly isn't open minded when it comes to your point of view.
CLIENT: Not just that. But even just saying everybody has to have their own beliefs.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. I see.
CLIENT: I am never going to call somebody evil or give them moral grade because of that. Never, never, never. But yet they will. You know? It's just it is what you are. And quite frankly I mean at the end of the day I don't necessarily believe that I'm right.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: I believe that that's what I feel for myself.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:18:41) person that talked outside on the cell phone. I don't think you can hear them. But
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Is it bothering you?
CLIENT: No not at all.
THERAPIST: Oh okay.
CLIENT: I can't hear it.
THERAPIST: You can?
CLIENT: I can't.
THERAPIST: Oh okay.
CLIENT: So there's somebody on their cell phone?
THERAPIST: There is somebody talking outside (inaudible at 00:18:57).
CLIENT: (inaudible) hearing I can't hear.
THERAPIST: Okay if it's not bothering you. If it starts to bother me I'll go say something. [00:19:03]
CLIENT: (inaudible) I'm pretty open-minded. Honestly I'm a live and let live kind of person. I'm never going (inaudible at 00:19:10) against anyone else's beliefs. I just really believe that for myself and my own personal behavior this is the way that it is. I cannot I could probably get disability if I wanted to but I won't. Because I feel like to me I am -
THERAPIST: Yeah I wondered about that at times.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I figured it was because that would be one of the last things you personally would want to do.
CLIENT: Yeah. I will never judge somebody who has the same symptoms.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: What they have to do.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: To me I know that what I'm doing is a struggle. But in some ways it's what keeps me fighting.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: Does that make sense?
THERAPIST: Well here's how I understand it. That struggling to manage work even when it's really hard and painful and inconvenient helps to keep you going.
CLIENT: Yeah. I find it rewarding sometimes. [00:20:00]
THERAPIST: And you would I guess feel like (inaudible at 00:20:04) I think. You would feel sort of more passive and defeated if you decided not to work and go on disability.
CLIENT: I've struggled with doing it temporarily. And I'm okay with short term when I've had situations where I had to get the time off so I could be able to keep fighting.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It's the permanent fight being lost. Does that make sense? I've had situations (inaudible at 00:20:35) surgery.
THERAPIST: (inaudible) bed for four weeks.
CLIENT: Or even just like a, "I need you not on your feet so that this (inaudible at 00:20:45) can stop."
THERAPIST: Doing what it's doing.
CLIENT: Doing what it's doing. Yeah. That kind of thing. And so (inaudible at 00:20:51)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) throw in the towel altogether.
CLIENT: Yeah. So. And I will never because of the fact that I know what it's like to be like this everybody has their own things. I will never judge anybody else because of that. [00:21:03]
THERAPIST: Right. Somebody else might feel incredibly stressed out by having to fight the battle everyday to get to work.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And it might make their symptoms worse.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
CLIENT: For me throwing in the towel would be more than I handle. I think I would feel worse about it.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: In fact I know I would feel worse about it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It's the fight that keeps me going. And I don't like to think of myself as handicapped.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: I know actually.
CLIENT: I really don't. Now if I were missing a leg or something like that that would be a very different thing. But you know for where I am right now I don't think I can. You know?
THERAPIST: What's the distinction?
CLIENT: One is a complete and total physical impossibility. The other one still opens up the possibility of having good days and bad days. Does that make sense? Like (inaudible at 00:22:01)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) do you have?
CLIENT: Not that many. But I have had them. And there is a possibility of more. Nobody regenerates legs. [00:22:08]
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:22:13) (laughing)
CLIENT: Just one of those things.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And again like I say, everyone is different. And I'm never going to give someone a hard time about it because I know what it's like. And day to day it's a different thing. You know? And even somebody who has a very different condition like I know that what you can and cannot cope with is entirely personal. And sometimes it's entirely personal day by day. So I'm not going to be like that. And I'm not going to it's just one of those things where again I personally have very strong pro-life leanings but they're entirely just to me. I would never, ever want to legislate on somebody else. [00:23:03]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: People get very upset about that.
THERAPIST: Yeah you mentioned it. Yeah.
CLIENT: And it's sort of weird because it's like yeah, I believe these things for myself but not for anybody else. And so therefore that should be okay. I'm never going to try to change anybody else. And so I'm just live and let live. I live in a very glass house. I'm not throwing stones against anybody else.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: Hell, you know, I regularly try not to judge my in-laws who are complete and total there aren't even swear words to describe what they are. You know what I mean? I regularly still empathize and feel like well, that I feel like I try not to even judge them.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: So it's kind of hard at times. But it is I usually do. And this is something where John and I had a long talk about this. He and I have a lot of buttons pushed when people talk about certain things. And for me it's even more so because of where my family came from. My family had terrible things happen to them under Communism. [00:24:13]
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: When I was little I thought my grandfather lost his fingers in a mining accident which is really funny because he'd never actually been in a mine. His fingers were cut off by the government on two different occasions when he didn't sign things. That kind of stuff.
THERAPIST: What happened? What was the story?
CLIENT: I don't know the exact details. They are related to loyalty oath type things.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: I know in one situation he was tortured.
THERAPIST: Your grandfather?
CLIENT: Yeah. And I know in one of them they just cut it off because they wanted to teach him a lesson about speaking about his own rights. I have family members with lots of things missing. That is very common and it is very true. I have these things aren't urban legends. They are real when there are things missing. And there are real consequences. These are not people like to say, "Oh this is anecdotal evidence." Anything that came out of the Stalinist regime isn't anecdotal. It's really bad. It's really bad. [00:26:08]
THERAPIST: What are you thinking of?
CLIENT: (sighs) Artwork. I gave this little lecture because people were giving me a hard time about voting. Pressuring people to vote. And how like there was a cupcake place that if you could prove you had an "I have voted" sticker you get a free cupcake. (inaudible at 00:26:30) And I explained how really wrong that is. And how it's actually illegal here.
And how where my mother lived everybody must vote. Even if there was only one person on the ballot. And how there were sanctions. If it weren't people who were dead voted. Because if you did not have one hundred percent there were terrible sanctions. And how at different points in time they all sort of rolled their eyes at me. Like (pause at 00:27:01 until 00:27:06) there were periods of time when they didn't have access to the nutrients they needed. (inaudible at 00:27:12) scurvy. Because they didn't have (inaudible at 00:27:15) oranges or things like that there.
THERAPIST: This was in Moscow? [00:27:18]
CLIENT: Yeah. I have family in Moscow. (inaudible at 00:27:25) family around that area.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And so you didn't get access to the right food if you didn't vote. There was really I mean they lost teeth because scurvy is just terrible.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I'm really passionate about this because I really feel like I'm not saying you should or shouldn't but you have the right not to.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: And I really feel like (pause at 00:27:52 at 00:27:57) when people pressure somebody else to do something, they don't really understand the slippery slope. It's really bad. And I was both fortunate and unfortunate enough to have family members who went from imperialism to communism.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (pause at 00:28:17 until 00:28:25)
CLIENT: The slippery slope happens faster than you think. [00:28:26]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: Really fast. And I'm so grateful that my mother and her family was able to leave because it got a lot worse. (inaudible at 00:28:39) got a lot worse. Some people they were okay. But the kind of things you had to do to survive were really bad.
THERAPIST: When did she get out?
CLIENT: She got out during the Khrushchev. I don't know if I ever told the story. This is actually it sounds very rare and strange but apparently it is more common than you think in Ohio. There were an awful lot of people who during Khrushchevthey opened up the ability to leave.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: For people who were Jewish. My mom's side of the family quite a few people faked documents and other things to be so they could get a visa to go. My mother lived in (inaudible) for two years. [00:29:27]
THERAPIST: Oh really?
CLIENT: Yeah. And so a good bit of family actually converted because they believed that that's what saved their lives.
THERAPIST: Wow. I'm smiling I guess mostly because there are not too many times or places in history where you're safer or better off in any way pretending to be Jewish.
CLIENT: Yes. And so I thought this is was really rare but apparently there is a whole phenomenon of people in the Ukraine and a couple of other places in the Baltics that did this during the ‘60s when there was that window. And apparently lots of people in Western Ohio don't talk about it but that's how it happened. And so (inaudible at 00:30:05) there are quite a few people who did convert. Especially in my family. And so it's a very blended, weird I have a lot of weird traditions.
THERAPIST: How old was she?
CLIENT: She was in her teens. By herself. Because different people left at different periods of time. [00:30:28]
THERAPIST: Oh I see. She wasn't with her parents?
CLIENT: No. Different people were able to get out different times. And different people were (inaudible at 00:30:34) live.
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: It was almost like an Underground Railroad kind of thing where people who knew people would take you in.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And then you would get reunited. It was very bad. And so and then there was a really big push to lose your accent because it was still (inaudible at 00:30:53) time period. And so she actually has very little accent unless she's really upset. Because of the fact that there was a lot ofyou were desperate to get over there and then people looked at you and judged you.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Because you were there. But I'm actually not angry with my family for lying to me about so many things anymore. I was very upset when I found out that they had told me stories about things that never happened. But it is much more believable for a little kid to be told it was a mine accident than like my grandfather was tortured by the communist party. (inaudible) [00:31:43]
THERAPIST: Yeah. I can see why -
CLIENT: My mother's sister actually I've got a couple of family who are in . They were in Spain actually. Basically my mother's sister still lives there. Who got out just before the revolution or (inaudible at 00:32:04) had family (inaudible) spent time in Spain too. It's sort of it's so weird. And it's strange because of the fact that it had to happen in these small little pieces and parts to get out. Such that yes I have a lot of biological family too but I have a lot of family who these people are maybe related to me. Hell if I know. But they're uncle. [00:32:35]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: And these people know my family. Like my Uncle knows my mother longer than any person. Like any of her younger siblings that were born in the U.S. Because of that. And so (sighs) it's something that just really pushes buttons for me. And for John a little bit too because of the fact that he knows quite a bit of it. Especially when my grandmother passed on. A lot of things were related. Stories. It was really important for us to have these stories passed on because it is very easy to forget and very easy to dismiss them. Like we don't really have a good idea of when my grandmother was born for lots of reasons. One of which being that documents when they came over things were altered. [00:33:28]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So things like that. You know? But it just makes me so angry when people try to force something down my throat. And I say to them that I have reason to be the way I am. I'm not saying that you can't feel this way.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: I don't like this idea of telling people what is and is not patriotic. What is and is not (inaudible at 00:33:56) that you must do. That is a very (inaudible) slippery slope. You know? And one of the things I've never actually admitted to anybody is (sighs) (pause at 00:34:12 until 00:34:17) well maybe I've admitted a little bit but not really. The recent branding of campaigning made me very, very upset because they reminded me a lot of things that I've seen and stories that I've been told about things related to propaganda. So. [00:34:35]
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: And I'm not saying that they are that way.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: The cult of personality is really -
THERAPIST: What in particular in the branding of campaigns?
CLIENT: Things like Okay. They're selling Obama nail polish. I'm not saying Obama is in anyway a communist by the way. That kind of thing. My mother has Lenin perfume. It has his head on it and everything. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: All kinds of stuff like that.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: There are all kinds of domestic products that have different pictures or things like that. And I guess that creeps me out. It really creeps me out. And unlike her because she's got the spirit and like she's such a little spitfire about that too. She will tell anybody about it. And she's the person like you don't agree with the laws you should fight it. I mean that's why she became an attorney is because of becoming an American. I'm not like that. I'm much more fearsome but that's just part of who I am. [00:35:52]
I don't I mean I'm in awe of her but I don't really wish to be that person who is really upset about something therefore I'm going to make a big deal about it. You know? Partially because that's part of her skill set that she knows how to set the political machine going. Such that like if something is illegal or somebody's rights have been violated that's even though she hasn't practiced since officially practiced since I was born she still does a lot of stuff. But yeah so it's something that's really very personal to me.
And I just I've gotten really good at deflecting it in certain situations. But I really wish that people could just respect that I don't really want if you're going to push me I'll talk about it but I don't really want to have the conversations that you want to have. Like giving away cupcakes makes me think about my family getting scurvy if they voted. You know? Yes that is a huge, over-rationalization -. [00:36:59]
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: But at the same time you don't compel somebody to vote. It's illegal. And actually it's not even funny about that because I remember as a kid I was taught about that too. Because in school my schools were the voting thing. And it was like, "Bring your parent. You're going to go vote with them." They made a big deal. "You're going to go in and you're going to see the vote and things that we're going to talk about." And it's like no. Especially no. You can see the voting booth where the curtain closes but you don't get to go in. That's like you don't go in the bathroom when we're peeing. You don't go in the voting booth. Like they told me all these (inaudible at 00:37:41) because it's very Russian to be take anything and make you embarrassed by saying you don't go to the bathroom with me either.
THERAPIST: (chuckles)
CLIENT: It's very much that kind of personality. So but like they were very much like that. And so being a kid a I knew I was different because everybody else's kids' parents and they went back and talked to the school about this I think this was the Reagan election. My parents were like, "No that's something that nobody gets to go in with you. That's your right." And you should be proud of this. And it's like okay, I already knew I was a little different by that point already. But I don't know. [00:38:23]
THERAPIST: No, (inaudible) how rights and rules and privacy and (inaudible at 00:38:32) (inaudible) how especially your mom -
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: To most people who grew up here. And that your parents kind of passed some of that on to you.
CLIENT: Yeah. They really were the (inaudible at 00:38:46) especially so. And it's very easy to fall into not thinking of my mother as an immigrant because she has no accent and she in many ways is very Americanized. Unless you get her really pissed off or occasionally she says something that doesn't translate well.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: But it's very, very rare. You have to know her well to see it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It's really subtle but at the same time it is very different. I am was raised with those ethics of things. And I do have a lot of tradition. And I have a lot of -
THERAPIST: And also sorry. You (inaudible at 00:39:29) things and also those ethics. And also it sounds like relatedly like memories of what happened.
CLIENT: Yeah. Memories of what happened. Even though they didn't happen to me. They're very related to me. [00:39:43]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:39:45)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) people who matter (inaudible).
CLIENT: The years my mother was in the East were very, very scary years of living there too. That was a very violent time too.
THERAPIST: Sure the ‘60s and ‘70s.
CLIENT: Yeah. Very violent time. And so I sort of get her point of view. I disagree with her on certain things she's extremely against war at all because she's seen some terrible things. I respect but disagree. But at the same time the things she's told me about were just flipping horrible. But at the same time I really wish that I was as strong as she was because she had to be more or less on her own in a place (inaudible at 00:40:29) language.
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: She does now.
THERAPIST: Sure. She was there as a teenager with nobody and not speaking the language.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:40:39)
CLIENT: (inaudible) she found enough people who spoke French. Something like that. She was able to speak enough French to get by. [00:40:57]
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:41:03) actually.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: Yeah. So I don't like to mention the aristocracy thing because it's extremely tentative. But at the same time it is unfortunately a big problem with me genetically. And I don't like to talk about it a lot because I don't like to believe in it.
THERAPIST: What do you mean?
CLIENT: Most of my genetic problems are due to thousands of years of inbreeding.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause at 00:41:37 until 00:41:46) Doctors are pretty flippant when they talk about it which kind of annoys me. But yeah. It's -
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:41:53) life.
CLIENT: (inaudible) The first like significant new genetic introduction to my family. They talk about people who died in 1066 like they just went off to the bathroom and you're gossiping about them. [00:42:15]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: And just before my grandma passed away like all of her sisters are like that too.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: It is an old country with a lot of traditions. And everything blends. Because of the way that in 1090 when they forced Christianity into the area well they didn't actually. That's the reason (inaudible at 00:42:38) religion too. There is a (inaudible) mix of what we would call fairy tales but they were very much real in their lives. Like people talk about Baba Yaga. It's actually Boba Yaga. [00:42:58]
She's a force of both good and evil. She's very mercurial as a force. And my grandmother who like I swear to you was extremely well educated honestly believed that there is something about appeasing her that would help you find things that were lost in your house. (inaudible at 00:43:21) is the spirit of the house that doesn't like you to trip over things. And there are things that you do on Fridays I mean like yeah. (inaudible at 00:43:32) Fridays. Like seriously.
But this is like right there with Christianity so it was not very hard at all for my mom's family to add something else to the mix of things. And so (inaudible at 00:43:52) such that it was very, very easy because the family and talking about things with thousands of years of tradition sounds weird but they're very fluent in terms of being to take whatever is there and add into it. Which is also part of the reason why speaking of forces of superstition. [00:44:22]
My aunt's calling me. But it is a very weird thing where like I said so much is already blended in there. And so I once asked my grandmother about this. And she told me that the act of doing this actually just made she really believed it made you perceive more things around your house and so you could find things. Like the act of doing this is setting your mind to thinking about the fact that you need to find something that's missing around your house.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: She really believed that these were psychological things but that doesn't mean that's who we are.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And she saw the ritualism as being important. So and we talked about why it is that (inaudible at 00:45:05) doesn't like to have things lay on the house. (inaudible) tend to be very crowded and so if you leave something on the floor he doesn't like that. In theory though you don't want to trip. [00:45:17]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: There are a lot of these like wisdom in them.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: And so it's (inaudible at 00:45:26) weird. Like I said it's a too weird a thing to talk about but I'm very protective of this. Very protective of it.
THERAPIST: We need to stop.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I know.
CLIENT: But I will be here Tuesday.
THERAPIST: Okay. And if hear from you -
CLIENT: Oh yes. Friday. Yes. (inaudible at 00:45:48) I'm almost positive. 5:15, right?
THERAPIST: Oh yeah 5:15.
CLIENT: I just want to make sure. (inaudible at 00:46:02)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) [00:46:14] [end of audio]
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