TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Oh gosh. It's been a crazy couple of days. Not crazy so much as just cranky. Mike's home right now with a kidney stone.

THERAPIST: Ooh.

CLIENT: Again.

THERAPIST: Another one.

CLIENT: They swore up and down first of all they swore up and down the first one was only going to be two millimeters. So it was okay just to pass it. Which by the way is still larger than you think.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:00:32)

CLIENT: Then they're like they said that the other (inaudible at 00:00:36) for at least a year.

THERAPIST: How long has it been?

CLIENT: Three months. Four months.

THERAPIST: Oh, poor guy.

CLIENT: Yep. So. So that's what he's home with. It's sort of a running joke because just about every Thanksgiving we have something really weird happen like this. Like Mike had to get nose surgery. Or wisdom teeth or something. You know? So that's about par for the course at this point. But and then next week we were planning to go home. I'm not sure whether or not because he's going to stay home all week for the kidney stone thing. Because they've got him pretty (inaudible at 00:01:20) out. For something. A pain (inaudible at 00:01:22). So he really shouldn't be at work. I don't even want him using the stove really. [00:01:26]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. So.

THERAPIST: So that means you're not sure if you're going home next week?

CLIENT: Yeah. So.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:01:38) Well I guess let me know. (inaudible)

CLIENT: Tentatively I don't think I'm going to be here Wednesday. We'd be leaving like Wednesday morning.

THERAPIST: Oh next week.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So. But yeah. So but I don't really know what's happening at this point. It's really frustrating.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: The thing that's mostly frustrating about it is because sometime on Thursday he started having back pain. And there was like nothing that could make him happy. And the problem was that because there is already a lot of other stressors I was pretty much on my last nerve in terms of trying to be nice. "Like can I bring you heat? Can I bring you cold? Do you want to lay down? Do you want to stretch? "[00:02:19]

Nothing made him happy. In fact most things made him worse. And so after a certain point maybe like Sunday I'm like, "You know I bet you have kidney stones." He's like, "No this isn't anything like kidney stones." And then yesterday he's like, "Yep. It's moved over to the right side. (inaudible at 00:02:35)" Because nothing would make it better.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And so (pause at 00:02:41 until 00:02:47) yeah. So that's been pretty much that's been going on which has made things a lot more complicated.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I guess just in general because he's been in so much off and on back pain. It's like I said I've just been on my last nerve for just everything. And so I haven't been really all that easy to be around. You know? Especially with the point he is trying to tell me when he has certain thoughts. I understand that he's trying to tell me these things because he's trying to recognize his processes and all but in my mind I'm freaking evil. I'm mad at him apparently for everything. [00:03:35]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: You know? And it's kind of I knew that. I knew it for a long time. I knew that like a lot of stuff but knowing how much -. Like apparently he had this thought process of "Oh my God I'm in pain. But I'm not in as much pain as Debra is so I can't say anything. Damn I'm so bitter with her because she's going to be mad." I'm like, "No you can say that you're in pain."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I was never in this loop of anything. You know? And it's really frustrating.

THERAPIST: Depression in its way is an aggressive act towards the people one is closest to. Even if in a sense it has nothing to do with them. [00:04:23]

CLIENT: Yeah. It just yeah. I did nothing. And the thing is that I'm learning (inaudible at 00:04:34) how annoyed by things that I'm supposed to be annoyed by. Because I'm very (inaudible) for that kind of thing.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: The first time that he actually pulled away while I was still getting something on the backseat to go I became from now on paranoid that the car is going to move. Because I'm just easily I'm just really easily trainable.

THERAPIST: What happened?

CLIENT: Well just little things.

THERAPIST: You were like leaning-not leaning back.

CLIENT: No like I was just getting something in the backseat of the car. He didn't know I was gone.

THERAPIST: Standing on the ground?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: In the backseat reaching for something and the car starts moving.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: He doesn't know you're back there.

CLIENT: No because he thinks I've left. So that happened years ago and I'm still at this point kind of afraid of it happening again.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I'm very easy conditionable with negative results. I mean extremely. And so being like having him apologize for things that may need to be apologized for and him being afraid of it is starting to slowly make me doubt my own like am I getting annoyed? Am I getting annoyed by this? I don't know. And now I'm now starting to become the person that he sees me as. And it's really it's a huge struggle. And I'm not like that. And I'm so bitter because I'm really a nice girl. I really am. I don't have any of these motivations. [00:05:55]

THERAPIST: Right. (pause at 00:05:56 until 00:06:01) Does it feel like he is sort of either more open about or more active in a way about playing these things out with you? I mean is this stuff that's sort of been -

CLIENT: I think it's been going around in his head for years.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: He is trying to tell me about this so that I can say, "No, no I don't feel like that."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But he's told me in the past but he's trying to be more obvious about it. Because he's like, "Yeah I'm stewing over this. I just needed to let you know that this is absolutely ridiculous. I think that you're mad at me for this."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: Sort of reality testing.

CLIENT: Yeah. But some of it is so absurd. Like he's in another room. I drop I'm on a ladder trying to get to a bottle of wine that's way up high on the shelves. I drop the bottle of wine and he thinks I'm mad at him because I'm swearing and pissed. I'm just mad at gravity. You know? [00:07:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah. I understand.

CLIENT: How in the world could I be mad at him? He's not even in the same room!

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: There is no cause and effect. But I mean this is obviously learned behaviors from somewhere. You know? He has to be I mean to have this strong feeling towards this.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Obviously this was some sort of survival instinct. Of like his mother being flipping or somebody in his life flipping out because of something. Like "You didn't go up on the ladder and get this for me." Or something like that. You know?

THERAPIST: Right. It also sounds like he does manage, without intending to, to kind of get under your skin with some of this stuff.

CLIENT: Only at the moment. For the most part I don't feel it that much. I really don't.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: It's just having to deal with someone who has had nondescript back pains for most of the week that nothing can make them feel better. They can't sleep. They can't like they're just miserable. [00:08:03]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: That really is just like pushing everything to the surface. You know?

THERAPIST: Absolutely. What I also, unless I'm misunderstanding, sounds as though it starts to make you really not like really doubt yourself but like kind of emotionally doubt yourself. Or feel like you're not a good person. Or (inaudible at 00:08:26)

CLIENT: That and -

THERAPIST: when you step back from it you really think those things. But in the moment -

CLIENT: No but even more along the lines of, "Why the hell am I doing this?" Because I've already gotten a bad rap in his head. I'm a really awful person.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:08:30)

CLIENT: At this point (sighs) total tangent but since we've together for almost twenty years and married for almost fifteen. Like at what point does this get into his head? I don't think it's going to. I don't know. [00:08:52]

THERAPIST: Right. Well that is something that's workable in therapy although it takes awhile. It sounds like to me like he is working on it. And that his (inaudible at 00:09:09) you is part of that. (inaudible at 00:09:12)

CLIENT: Yeah I just wish that there was a better mechanism that wasn't already making me feel like I knew about a lot of this stuff. He's called himself out before. Like, "Hey ridiculous behavior here. I'm blaming you for something that has nothing to do with you." Kind of thing.

THERAPIST: Right. And he's making you feel a little bit of the weight of his projections.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And that's not unusual. Especially when they're deeply entrenched. Yeah.

CLIENT: And it's just like it's (inaudible at 00:09:45)

THERAPIST: (inaudible) Yeah.

CLIENT: And it's like Friday night he was like, "Hey let's rent a car and go on a date. And go see a movie or something like that." And by the time he came home I was just getting ready to go out. And he was just not in a good place. And I'm like he wasn't really trying to put a good face on it. So I'm like, "You know what? Just go out and game. I really would rather have you go out and be happy than try and make something happen that's not going to happen right now." [00:10:11]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I'm really trying to get him to fake it a little bit. In terms of being happy. But he's always faking for everybody else but me. You know? For the most part. He was on the phone with his stepmother because it was her birthday yesterday. And he was trying to make it seem like it was not that big of a deal with this whole thing because he didn't want to ruin her birthday. Mike's father called Mike on his 30th birthday and let him know that he had cancer. This is not his family's social thing to worry about you know. Maybe it was his 35th. I don't know. Some birthday like that.

This is not like a traditional thing of, "Oh you don't do this on this person's day in any way, shape or form." You know? So it just I don't know. I'm trying to get him he's very grumpy with my mom too. I'm trying to get him to be nicer on the phone with my mom. Because my mom is really taking it badly. She's trying really hard. (inaudible at 00:11:19) headaches. He's got a lot of this. And she's like, "He just sounds so angry on the phone." I'm like, "Yep. Don't take it it's not you." She's really worried that it's something she did. I'm like, "No. He's just in a bad mood. The pressure cooker up here. And he's got headaches. And he's got this and that." [00:11:38]

THERAPIST: (inaudible) you're picking up the slack kind of all around.

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: And sort of slack in the form of extra energy, extra emotional resources. Not something you have a lot of as I understand.

CLIENT: Nope. But in a crisis situation I always am able to come through. This is just not a crisis. It's just really bad. You know? And I even try and think of things. Like (inaudible at 00:12:22) yesterday. I was like, "(inaudible) Redbox movie so you have something to watch while you're stuck passing the stone." He was like, "I don't think it's going to be that bad." I'm like, "I am going to get this Redbox movie so that while you're passing the stone tomorrow -." And he's like, "Okay." [00:12:41]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Of course it happened that way. And I understand. When you're starting and you're in the middle of this you're just so not aware really of what's going to happen. You're trying to fool yourself etcetera, etcetera. I have not ruled out the fact that tonight we may have to drag him out to go get some IV medication again. I don't want to. But it's possible.

THERAPIST: He passed the stone yesterday?

CLIENT: No he hasn't passed anything yet. It's not even close to being passed.

THERAPIST: Oh okay.

CLIENT: It is just simply moving.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:13:12) pain is?

CLIENT: It's kind of like this has happened before. Like earlier this is what happened. And on top of it the timeline from last time seemed like (inaudible at 00:13:23) true. And there is only a very small amount of blood in his urine that they found yesterday. We just dragged him over to health services for a little bit.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And they have limited resources but they could tell that there was blood in his urine. But not very much so probably it just moved out of his kidneys. Which is why all of sudden it is now being more localized. Before it was like this extremely generalized non-localized pain. So. But he probably won't pass it until Thursday. If this is on the correct timeline. So basically I've got him set up with video games and movies and stuff. [00:14:06]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So that he can and asking him not to use the stove and stuff like that. And I explained to him, "It's not because you're I'm treating you like a child. I want you to know that oxycotin does not make people normal."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So. And it's very important for me to tell him that because he's been infantilized way too many times in his life. Which is more of a anybody can make these kind of mistakes when they're like this. You know? So. But it's just been a lot. I haven't been feeling so great myself. And so (pause at 00:14:48 until 00:14:56) it is a lot of what we talked about earlier this week is kind of moot. Like putting a good face on things. Because obviously he's been having kidney stones. But it I'm just so sick of every conversation we have is and I hate people who do this. [00:15:12]

Every fight becomes about everything. Like you fight about the trash and the next thing you know it's about something that happened in 1976. Because it's anything and everything. But right now so many things are so connected and the behavior and being so upset about it that it just it is all interconnected. It is (pause at 00:15:29 until 00:15:34) it is about everything. It is about more than just any one thing. You know? And (pause at 00:15:45 until 00:15:54) (sighs) It is frustrating. You know?

Because I don't like to be that girl. I don't want to be the person that fights that these little fights bring up major problems that never got resolved but everything is about everything else. Like your lack of willingness to take on taking something to the mailbox is actually showing your problems with initiative in life. That kind of I hate people that do that. And so when I get upset like this I spend so much time not like spending time editing my thoughts and feelings. It almost never works. It is kind of like that but I'm trying so hard because I don't want to be that. [00:16:32]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know? I don't want it to be the "I've noticed that you're walking around funny. And things are strange. So you can you tell me if you've been acting out?" I will have a normal conversation. I don't want to have anything being I've noticed something going on that is negative therefore I need to ask you about acting out. I want a life. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah you're really hemmed in.

CLIENT: Yeah. Really hemmed in. And he's so vague about so many things that it's like and there is only so much energy that I've got for that. Like if I ask, "How's your sobriety?" He's like, "You know I've been having trouble." Having trouble could mean a lot of different things. Sometimes having trouble meant I've spent the past nine hours downloading porn. You know?

I talked to him about being concerned about me being gone all damn Sunday. And he said, "Don't worry about it." Blah, blah, blah. And then he sort of when he said he was having trouble etcetera, etcetera because he seemed really weird. He's like, "Because of my back problems I wasn't really able to act out more than a little. More than looking at the pornography." I'm like, "That's so great. I'm so glad that the back problems were limiting this. But that doesn't matter." You know? It's just It's just exhausting right now. [00:17:51] (pause until 00:17:58)

THERAPIST: Uh (pause at 00:17:59 until 00:18:05). (inaudible) really sounds to me completely infuriating.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like I know you don't like to be infuriated.

CLIENT: No (inaudible at 00:18:16). It's not the only thing in my life that I'm infuriated with. It's just the only one that's so consistently it's the only thing that I go round and round consistently with but it's something that it's hard. It's really hard.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:18:22)

CLIENT: And if I didn't feel so strongly for him this wouldn't bother me that much. There are a lot of people in my life who have pissed me off a lot that I was just like, "Okay. That's the price of admission to having to be around them. That's okay." You know? I don't need to deal with them today because whatever. I can pick and choose that. But that's because I don't care that much. You know? [00:18:50]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And a lot of it isn't his fault. (sniffs) (pause at 00:18:58 until 00:19:09) But that doesn't mean that it's not hard. (sighs) (pause at 00:19:14 until 00:19:21) So yeah. (pause at 00:19:21 until 00:19:40) I don't know if he's getting worse or not. I don't remember having to teach him this much and maybe it's just he has a different role in life. When we first got married I don't remember having to teach him this much about like social graces as I do now. You know? (pause at 00:19:57 until 00:20:08) Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe I'm just warping things to be different than the are. It's just like I said it's exhausting. It's infuriating. It's you know. It's my life. [00:20:22]

THERAPIST: Mm. (pause at 00:20:24 until 00:20:47)

CLIENT: Yeah. Pretty much. (pause at 00:20:48 until 00:20:57)

THERAPIST: Are you pretty worn out?

CLIENT: Yes and no. I am worn out of words. I guess maybe. (chuckles) I'm tired but I'm not as tired as I could be. I have been going home and just going to bed though lately. It's just hard. You know. I just feel like my life is just passing me by. But yes the amusing thing was that a couple of people at work pointed out that they could very easily be my love child because I have been with my husband longer than they have been alive. That was very weird. I'm like, "Great. I didn't know that." (inaudible at 00:21:44) long term like this can't happen but it has to happen. Like over time things take time. I'm starting to really get frustrated. Because yeah, I've given things a lot of time. [00:21:57]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: He attended SA meetings for 10 years. You know?

THERAPIST: That's a long time.

CLIENT: Yeah. Especially when not really ever working any steps really but still going. You know? And the first one is supposedly very hard about being powerless. But I don't know. And I can't even begin understand that level of things because I've never really felt that compelled. Like that this is out of my control yet I am still doing it kind of thing. So it's not something in my reference point. (pause at 00:22:42 until 00:22:51) I feel like it's part of the problem. We were discussing the fact that I'm so tough. And (inaudible) having lots of people see that this way. [00:22:57]

Because of this I have a lot of weaknesses. A lot of weaknesses. But apparently because I'm perceived as tough that I can often be ignored or not necessarily thought of in terms of things being terrible.

Like I can tell Mike something. Something that is happening. And it's like he's sitting there staring at me. I'm like, "Okay so I'm going to tell you what you're supposed to say. ‘Oh, my gosh that must be really horrible to feel that way. If that happened to me.'" It's like -

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Telling him that. This must be really devastating. Teaching him these like social graces. Now I've taught like an 18-year-old, 20 year old kid this too. Like at my job. So I kind of teach them that when someone comes in with an Ipad that's broken saying, "Well that must be horrible. I'd upset if that happened to me." Like I can teach them to say that too. So it's not entirely like fake for me to do this but having to do that all time is really hard. (inaudible at 00:24:02) But like teaching him that kind of thing. It's like, "You know I really am really, really not that tough." Just because I've been able to break a lot of habits does not mean that I am infallible. And not that things are not extremely difficult for me. [00:24:26]

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: It's not that I'm not in as much emotional pain as much an anybody else.

THERAPIST: Absolutely.

CLIENT: And (pause at 00:24:34 until 00:24:46). I have when I want to a lot of willpower is true. But I guess that's part of the reason why I don't really know how to (pause at 00:25:01 until 00:25:12). I don't really know how to understand that (inaudible at 00:25:13) things. Because there is nothing that I do if I had like seriously. If I knew that all I had to do was give up a limb and he would be sober for the rest of his life I wouldn't be bitter. I would gladly do that. And it might painful. I may have to do a lot of coping in my life. But I'd just do it. [00:25:38]

THERAPIST: Probably (inaudible) [wasting your time].

CLIENT: Probably. (pause at 00:25:45 until 00:25:51)

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause at 00:25:53 until 00:26:00) But even if I just knew what the price was I could do it. The fact that I don't know what it is -

THERAPIST: Well (inaudible at 00:26:09) there is no price. You have no control over really over this.

CLIENT: Yeah. I have had situations where I mean they (inaudible at 00:26:20) less than that. But you know it's like if I do this it seems like it's ridiculous to do this but I can do this. You know? [00:26:28]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (pause at 00:26:29 until 00:26:38)

CLIENT: I guess I just (inaudible at 00:26:39) power for that kind of stuff. (pause at 00:26:41 until 00:26:58)

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:26:59) very (inaudible) focus. And follow through very well. And be sort of very pragmatic about things. I think you have a lot more trouble with things that you have no control over.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And things that you don't know or kind of couldn't know. [00:27:23]

CLIENT: But the (inaudible) I really don't want to have all the power in the relationship either. You know?

THERAPIST: Course.

CLIENT: I really don't. I'd like to relegate a lot.

THERAPIST: It's nice to be taken care of. It's nice to have somebody else be responsible for things. It's nice to have them looking out for you in lots of ways.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's nice to not have to worry about a million things. (inaudible at 00:27:50)

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause at 00:27:50 until 00:28:02) It's just like I said it's really exhausting. I don't really want to be in control. Takes charge all the time. I have to.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Because otherwise nothing will happen. And I have to pick and choose at least with him what I'm going to make a big fuss about and what I'm not going to make a big fuss about. Sometimes certain things. You know? [00:28:25]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: There is nothing I can do. Exhausting. (pause at 00:28:31 until 00:28:39) (inaudible) just (pause at 00:28:39 until 00:28:54). The problem I really have with this is that there are lots of things that have been told to me that this can't be done. Or that it's not something you can control.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And I found a way to do it. And therefore whenever I'm up against a really, really big wall I haven't really experienced the disappointment of not being able to control certain things. You know? Like for example it would be very easy to say to somebody, "You really can't stay out for a week. You cannot get all this information memorized in time for this. It's just not possible." Back in the day I figured out this whole system of when to sleep only to get rid of eye fatigue amongst many other things. Like I had this whole system because I had to. I had to get this done. I had no other way around it. [00:29:42]

And I mean I'd gotten myself and thing is I was willing to accept it because I'd gotten myself behind the eight ball on something. I didn't keep up with the information I needed. I needed to get it done. Did I retain it? Very little. But it was something of a sacrifice that I had to make. And there have been so many things like that. The "You can't do anymore to change this". And I have found some way to do so. You know?

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And I guess that just when I do run into something that I literally have no ability to do so you know? It's I guess maybe I've been a brat about it all these years. About not like learning how to handle things that I can't change. I mean there is a few things in life that I can't change. But there's not that much. You know? I have lived in the dark when I had to. Like literally. [00:30:50]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Just stuff. I have sold my plasma when I had no money and I had no easy way of getting money. I have done many, many things to make things happen when they needed to. And so now when I'm running up against this stuff I just (pause at 00:31:07 until 00:31:16). (sighs) I just have no easy way of fixing it. And (pause at 00:31:21 until 00:31:39) yeah. Guess so. (pause at 00:31:40 until 00:32:03) (sighs) So I just keep going everyday. I don't even really know if I (inaudible) things are ever going to feel okay for me in terms of waking up and feeling like my life is okay. [00:32:17]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:32:20) (pause at 00:32:20 until 00:32:29) (inaudible) degree of confidence. There are so many things I want to be able to say. That I can't because they're going to sound so (pause at 00:32:43 until 00:32:55). Cruel and mean. And generally just being a jerk but they are true.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:33:02)

CLIENT: Yeah. I've thought about saying (inaudible at 00:33:08). I want to sit him down and say, "You know if I waste my entire like what I have left of my youth waiting for you to get sober so that we can adopt and we don't get a chance to; I will hate you for the rest of my life. Like I will really hate you for the rest of my life. You don't have worry about anything that is in your head because I have been waiting around for this for years. And it's not going to happen." [00:33:32]

And that's the kind of ready that's already the kind of (inaudible at 00:33:45) that goes on in his head already so I don't need to like confirm any of this. Because that just gets him to the point where he can't really associate and talk to me about things. He's so stuck in the "Oh my God. She's going to hate forever" thing that he can't get past the "Okay so what do I need to do to get past this day?" It's also just really a shitty thing to say to somebody like, "If you do this to me I will hate you forever." (pause at 00:34:08 until 00:34:22)

THERAPIST: Um. Well that kind of takes (inaudible) about what's actually being done. Which is even shittier. [00:34:33]

CLIENT: Yeah. It's a little bit everyday so I don't think he sees it. But if he sees that also then he's going to think about how bad the point in which he has any perspective on how bad this is for me he collapses. He can't even handle it.

THERAPIST: I think I get your point that it would do nothing constructive for him to hear it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And yet it makes a whole lot of sense that you feel it. And (inaudible at 00:35:25) him all the time. All the time having to make sacrifices in order to take care of him. (pause at 00:35:32 until 00:35:40)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And you're talking about never having kids. [00:35:47] (pause until 00:35:53)

CLIENT: But at the same time the choice is mine. I just don't feel like we should adopt if this is all going on.

THERAPIST: No it's not as simple as to say the choice is yours.

CLIENT: I'm the one that's saying let's not do this because of this.

THERAPIST: Yeah but you're trying to protect the kids you'd have. You're not deciding you don't want them.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Totally different thing. (pause at 00:36:19 until 00:36:25)

CLIENT: (whispers) Yeah. (pause at 00:36:25 until 00:37:15) I need (inaudible) future. (inaudible) without that. (pause at 00:37:18 until 00:37:32) (sighs) I have (inaudible) parents are getting older. Health has not been that great. I have no relationship with my in-laws so it's going to be just us. You know? [00:37:52] (pause until 00:38:18)

I just don't know how to keep him focused. The worst part is I really feel like if he could just get enough momentum that he would just find some other way to get past these uncomfortable feelings or at least bide his time or what have you. You know? That was vaguely non-destructive. That it would be a lot better. You know? If he could just get a certain amount of sobriety then it would be a lot easier. [00:38:58] (pause until 00:39:11)

THERAPIST: I -

CLIENT: But that's just my feelings.

THERAPIST: I sure hope he will. I think there's a chance that he will. I think there's a pretty decent chance that he never will.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's been going on a long time. And it's really entrenched.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause at 00:39:35 until 00:39:42)

THERAPIST: And sometimes things like that don't change. Sometimes they do. But often they don't. [00:39:50]

CLIENT: In my heart I gave up a long time ago. (pause at 00:39:55 until 00:40:05) He is (inaudible) so I have something to look forward to.

THERAPIST: Mm. (pause at 00:40:10 until 00:40:22) [When did you give up?]

CLIENT: Five, six, seven years ago. (sniffs) (inaudible at 00:40:30) I've been trying to for his sake because I figure that if I give up on him that (pause at 00:40:36 until 00:40:48). I have these outside ideas in my head that I think that might work occasionally but (inaudible at 00:40:56) cut him slack on some things. Like a lot more slack than any other human being ever would be given. So you know I've often thought that if he could just get scared straight he's been very lucky. He hasn't had any repercussions really. So. [00:41:16]

(inaudible) like spending a night in lock up. Or getting his ass kicked by somebody or something. You know? I don't know. I guess I don't know what to do. (sniffs) (pause at 00:41:40 until 00:41:48) Worst part of it is I'm super ashamed about this coming out. Very few people know about this. And I don't want anyone ever to know about this. You know? (pause at 00:41:56 until 00:42:29) So yeah. (inaudible) (pause at 00:42:36 until 00:43:25) So. I don't know what else to say.

THERAPIST: Mm. We need to stop. [00:43:37]

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I'll be back tomorrow.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:43:44)

CLIENT: Oh I wanted to ask you next Tuesday. Is it possible to potentially come in earlier in the day? I normally come at 3:45. Is it possible to come at 2:45?

THERAPIST: I don't think I can do 2:45. I can double check but probably have a slot at 12:40. Does that help you at all?

CLIENT: I have to work till one so -

THERAPIST: Oh okay. So no. I don't think I can do that. Let me -

CLIENT: Not a problem. If you can let me know.

THERAPIST: Okay. You're coming in tomorrow.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:44:21) as much as possible before getting out of this. Getting out of town. So.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Okay. I'll see you tomorrow.

THERAPIST: I'll see you tomorrow. [00:44:34] [end of audio]

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