TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Well, I'm feeling better than I have in many weeks. So that's good.

THERAPIST: That's terrific.

CLIENT: I am... got a massage today. And I basically... I have someone who works with a lot of deep tissue stuff. And so I had to really work on a lot of adhesions and that kind of stuff that can be really painful. So I'm doing a lot better. It's funny because I didn't actually. Because I have had so many other going on in my life, I sort of had sort of a numb, dull pain. But hadn't been really been thinking about it a lot in weeks. And it wasn't until it started to go away that I realized oh my God, I've been in a lot of pain.

THERAPIST: Yea. Where was it?

CLIENT: From... I go to Harpers (ph).

THERAPIST: Oh, right there in the...

CLIENT: Oh pain legs, the bottom half of me mostly.

THERAPIST: Harper (ph) can be a source of pain, though. I was thinking about (inaudible at 0:00:55).

CLIENT: No, no, no, no, no. I thought, "Where was I going to get that?"

THERAPIST: Yea, yea. I understand.

CLIENT: No, no, no. But yea, so that was definitely very helpful.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: And she was like, "Be really careful because you feel really great right now. But I've done a lot of body work on you so you need to take it easy. Go get some... drink a lot of water and get some Epsom salts because tomorrow you will hurt." I'm like, "OK."

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: Like from being sore.

CLIENT: Yea. A lot of the stuff revolves around basically going really, really deep into the areas where the nerves are and sort of resetting them by pushing on them really hard. Also just breaking doing a lot of very, very deep muscle manipulation which often you do get bruised a little bit. It's really painful afterwards. But it does long term help a lot. So that was really, extremely helpful.

THERAPIST: Oh, good.

CLIENT: So need to start doing that more often once things get more stable. Because I think it really does help a lot for me.

THERAPIST: Sounds that way.

CLIENT: Yep. So, oh gosh yea, it is nice having a perspective in which I don't feel like I'm just... I mean, I still feel bad. [0:02:08] But I don't feel that bad anymore. So I feel like I have like some sort of awareness of what's going on around me. And I'd say sleepwalking but it's more like nightmare walking in terms of thinking that it hasn't been that great. Sleepwalking makes it seem like well, you're kind of drowsy and it hasn't. It's been very... like I've been sort of walking through this.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: So that's been really difficult for me. But I've had to and so...

THERAPIST: Yea, not exactly like your choosing to do it.

CLIENT: No. One of the biggest things that I have as a difficulty is I have many, many people around me who are trying to be helpful. And the advice that they're giving me and I often just do it just to get them off my back but it's really not that helpful which is, "You need to get out and about. Once you start going, you're going to be better. You need to do this." [0:03:00] These are all really, really helpful ideas in theory. But they're really not as helpful as they seem.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: And like it's been really...

THERAPIST: I would imagine that a lot of the time it's true that you do need to get out and do stuff. And you need to stay home and take it easy. And you probably need some sleep. And you need to do things to manage the pain. And there are things you could buy to make you happier. And you need to be sort of very careful about money all at the same time.

CLIENT: For the most part, believe it or not, actually owning more stuff usually stresses me out more than...

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I am one of those people that almost all things no matter how cheap or expensive have upkeep and just don't like... I have been begging people not to, "Don't you get me things because I'm like I don't need another thing to dust...

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: ...no matter what it is." And I would saying it cute like that. [0:04:02] It's like...

THERAPIST: Right, yea.

CLIENT: ...it's a lot of upkeep and just one more thing to have to store. So I'm not really for the most part...

THERAPIST: Not about the stuff.

CLIENT: ...not about the stuff.

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: I would like to travel more but that's really about the big thing. But also at the same time I need to get my health back together because I've already had one of those extremely... I mean, I've had points where I was mildly miserable feeling when I was traveling. But I had one that was just so damn bad, it was heartbreaking. So like one was from the entire time in a hotel room in a different country. Yea, it's very depressing. So... but yea, so that's been pretty much my big thing. [0:05:00]

But I don't know. I guess that I just... I guess the next couple of weeks here will really dictate how I feel about the long term about stuff. So in terms of like if I can keep... keeping things positive and keep feeling better about things. There's something incredibly exhausting about... pardon me. There's something incredibly exhausting about coming home and realizing that I have a million things to do. And it sounds, "Oh, well you..." It's really easy to say don't sweat the small stuff. But you know what? Dishes do pile up. Things do pile up. And you know what? They become actually worse when you're tripping over stuff. And it's like...

THERAPIST: There's some small stuff you got to sweat. [0:06:00] Or it just gets bigger.

CLIENT: Yea. And I'm just... I am in many ways kind of bitter about all the advice I've been given in my life that is supposedly sounds like very good, sound advice. But in my situation, it's not.

THERAPIST: I imagine it also gets alienating. I mean, in addition to not being helpful...

CLIENT: Oh, yea.

THERAPIST: ...it makes you feel like, "Geez, thanks. This thing that supposed to work isn't working."

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: And that somebody doesn't get that.

CLIENT: Usually it's a, "Relax. Stop trying to control too many things." I actually have like an awful lot of things in my life that I actually don't know where they are. Because during moving, people stopped to tell me to basically stop freaking out about having everything labeled and making sure things went to the right place. I have a... seriously I have no idea where certain things that we actually kind of need over the years where they are. They've been gone for like seven years in moves that kind of thing. [0:07:03]

I'm very bitter about that one still because you try to like... where is it? You need it. "You're making yourself more upset than you need to be. You need to stop worrying about it. We'll take care of this." Yea, this is where I get trust issues is the, "Stop worrying. We'll take care of this," thing and then people don't. And it's not like I'm very easily conditioned. But it's not even just like a one-time thing. This has happened chronically with many people in my life because I just... it's like, "Stop doing this," or being helpful about certain things.

People say, "Oh well, you should get a nap." I'm like, "Well, great. That's fantastic." But then they're like, "Maybe you're sleeping too much and that's why you're so sleepy." You know what? I just really feel like I'm sick and tired of other people who really don't know what they're talking about telling me what to do. I know it's very well meaning and all. [0:08:02] But it really isn't all that helpful.

THERAPIST: Well, sure. It's like, "OK, I won't worry about when I move. But then when I can't find my blender, I'll call you."

CLIENT: Yea, exactly. Exactly. And that's pretty much the kind of stuff that like no one knew where it is. And I have three different places. I have things in our current place. I have things in my parent's basement. And then I have things in storage. And God only knows where any of this stuff is or where or what. And yea. I just... I am reticent to actually ask for help with certain things in certain situations now because of the fact that I know that certain times it is not worth the help. [0:09:00]

And it's awful to be like that. But I'd rather be like, "No thanks," than be spiteful. And be like, "OK, so yea. Thanks for nothing." So... but I really feel like on some level I feel bad because so much of everything in my life has to be on my terms or else I won't... I'm unhappy about it. Sure I want to go do something. But I want it to be entirely on my terms. I need it to be short. I need it to be this. Or if we're going to go eat somewhere, I need to go somewhere that's not going to bother my stomach. So much of this is like I don't like the fact that I have... I rather not do anything at all because I don't want to have to be like, "OK, it has to be on my terms." Because I just don't like being that selfish. I mean, I've done it before and it's not all that helpful. So that's pretty much... that's sort of what's been on my mind lately. [0:10:05]

I am looking forward to going home. I'm not looking forward to the drive. I'm trying to figure out some way to finagle getting out early on Monday. We'll see.

THERAPIST: When are you supposed to be done?

CLIENT: Six and then I drive all night to Cincinnati. Get in at 6:00 am on Christmas morning. Yea. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: So do you guys split the driving?

CLIENT: I can't drive anymore. So not only do I not have a legal license. But lots of things related to what is probably the best if we don't let me drive. So since we have owned nothing but stick shift cars for a very long time, I sort of let my license expire back in 2004.

THERAPIST: So wait, what would guys be driving?

CLIENT: A rental car. But no, I just it let expire and then for years...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:11:01) did that but you got a rental car that (inaudible at 0:11:04).

CLIENT: A rental car, yea so... but I... yea. But like I just let things like... and it's been more than ten years since I've had a driver's license. So... and I wasn't especially a great driver to begin with. So it's probably for the best. I don't know. So I like cars. I just don't like to drive. I like fast cars but I don't like to drive them very weird thing.

Then it's like I said it's a long drive. But it... so my one safety net part way is going through... because my friend is in Orlando for the holidays. So yea. I mean, it's part of the way so if things got really bad, I could stop and stay at her place. [0:12:01] But she's out of town.

So, in general, I have to have a complicated conversation with her very soon which I'm not even entirely sure how to handle. So she has been getting involved in so many business practices that are really bad. And I'm terrified that she's doing this specifically so that... she's involved with someone who has some very, very... has ethics that are in the gutter. And doesn't really... it's... I think he's a jerk to begin with. But that has nothing to do with that. So her wine shop they lost it. And so now they're opening a restaurant. They lost their lease. She told me it's because the mall wanted to take it away because they wanted to put somebody else as a tenant there. But when we went there, this mall didn't have that many tenants. So I don't really...

THERAPIST: That's really strange.

CLIENT: I don't know... I don't necessarily think she's lying to me. [0:12:58] I think that in many ways her business partner is also the person she's sleeping with is lying to her also. There are a lot of things about what I've heard and the way he talks about the way he runs the business is extremely unethical. And he talks about it openly like that's the way you're supposed to do it is save like... don't declare anything that's cash. Pay people under the table. Do this. Do... all these things that are...

THERAPIST: Sketchy.

CLIENT: Very sketchy. And I think that since neither one of them have business in the restaurant industry amongst many other things I think this is an extremely bad idea. And just they're running bad money after good so I got to have a talk with her about this. But I want to do it after speaking with some other friends of ours so we cannot just be like Debra is trying to run your life. It's like...

THERAPIST: We all think this is a bad idea.

CLIENT: Yea. Especially with the same partner who we are pretty sure is not telling you the truth or something. Something is going on that's not right. [0:14:00] So... but I need to do it when he's not around because he really pushes my buttons. So we brought home German when we were coming back from the funeral I brought home German food for him. And he's like, "Yea, Cincinatti German food. They don't (inaudible at 0:14:19)," and just feed it to the dog right in front of us.

THERAPIST: Oh my God.

CLIENT: Yea. And I'm like, "Actually the... this is in a very great place. And their head chef is from Munich. And you can order in German during Oktoberfest," and all this kind of stuff. I was deeply insulted because I made a big deal about that. That we're going to drive out of our way to make sure we get there and make sure we bring some home for Drew (ph). It just pissed me off to no extent.

THERAPIST: Sure, of course.

CLIENT: And there are other things that just... things that just bother me so... and yea. So I have seen enough like reality shows about fixing bad restaurants to know that he's like the perfect stereotype for these kinds of things. [0:15:09] So... but that is something I'm not going to deal with until next year since I don't want to... I know her parents really well, too. So I don't want to call down and disrupt the holiday. I mean, I'll call down and talk to her. But I'm not going to start the holiday right now. So... but that's pretty much the big things right now just trying really hard to... like if I get to sort of keep the sanity. Figure everything... and I mean with sanity I mean like keeping things from getting out of control. I don't mean like actual insanity. But...

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: ...making sure that those things that need to be done get done. [0:16:02] And just keep up with paperwork that I have to do and all this other stuff.

THERAPIST: Like kind of sort of keeping things running?

CLIENT: Yea. And a lot of medical related stuff that I need to file and do this and do that. Then I have a bunch of... just I mean, it just feels like all I do is paperwork and clean the house. And I mean, I don't live in that big of a house either.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: It's not even a house. It's an apartment.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I mean, it feels like the rest of my week is monopolized by the (inaudible at 0:16:34).

THERAPIST: How big is it where you guys live?

CLIENT: It's a one bedroom. It's tiny.

THERAPIST: Is it like 900 square feet?

CLIENT: Probably close to 750, 700. It's nothing big at all.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: It's just a matter of keeping the chaos at bay.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So especially if we're going away, that means that cleaning out the turtle tank filters and stuff like that. [0:17:02] So luckily that's not my job. I'm not tall enough to do it. So... but it just is, like I said, it's a lot of stuff to have to get ready for that kind of thing. But as much as I am feeling less pain now, just thinking about the week's end is kind of exhausting. Thinking about OK, so I have to make sure this happens and this happens and this happens. And winter is always really hard for me, too.

THERAPIST: Even with all the terms like sort of nostalgic things (inaudible at 0:17:56) or just the kind of keeping things going in a day-to-day sort of way and stuff? [0:18:02]

CLIENT: Yea. Making sure that I stay on schedule, more or less. Making sure that I get up in the morning and I get this done and this done.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I mean, it's not like these are not really... for most people, this is normal stuff. But when...

THERAPIST: Yea, but when you allow yourself and when you have the kinds of health stuff you have and you're not feeling good day-to-day.

CLIENT: When you have to get up the physical fortitude to go to the bathroom because it hurts to walk, it's kind of like unloading the dishwasher is not exactly an easy...

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I mean, it's not bad but it's not easy to do.

THERAPIST: Yea. And I imagine that it also bears a lot on how you feel in that when you can stay on top of that stuff, you just feel much more like a human being. And when you can't, you feel I would imagine like less in control of your life.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: And just not feeling as well.

CLIENT: And Mike (ph) does help. It's not like it's completely done. But I do have to spend a lot of time reminding him to do it because he could just... he just doesn't notice the world around him. [0:19:03] I'm just... he's going to get hit by a car one of these days. It isn't just he's a slob about things.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: He isn't that much of a slob really. His family members are slobs. He's not a slob. But at the same time, he's just so oblivious to the world around him that it's kind of scary. So actually today he is being involved in a research study on what is it oxytocin, believe it or not. For money which is good. Yea. So it's supposed to be about something I don't remember exactly what it is but it was something related to his conditions that is supposed to be like they're doing an MRI with oxytocin on him. So we'll see. Yep.

THERAPIST: I vaguely recall writing a paper or an article about oxytocin and if it...

CLIENT: It's some sort of love bonding related thing.

THERAPIST: Yea, yea.

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: And it shows up like in very early parent/child bonding as well as the romantic bonding, I hear. [0:20:06]

CLIENT: Yea. So we'll see.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: And he has a lot of social phobias all of a sudden. This is... would really be nice to have him like...

THERAPIST: He does?

CLIENT: All of a sudden, yea. Well, part of it's the fact that he's not really holding up his end of things. Much like he felt like he needed to be poor asking for a computer just to work on. It's really hard to show your face when you haven't been doing anything. Again, it's really hard to meet people or want to have small conversation when you have long term issues with like, "So, what have you been up to lately?" "Oh, I've been surfing the Internet for porn. That's pretty much about it." You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: It's like... or I've been really... he's just not been wanting to... as much as I say I avoid talking to people. It's not a social phobia. It's a oh my God, this is just a big pain in the ass. He's not been really... so who knows. We'll see. [0:21:06] And it's something that somebody some doctor related to him recommended that he ought to get involved. And so we'll see. It's a one-time thing.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: Who knows?

THERAPIST: Out of the house.

CLIENT: Yep. It'll be interesting. So... but it's actually nice to see him going out and doing something to get not that he doesn't but it's nice to see him go out and doing something that's going to help at least for finances too.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: It's a big deal. So...

THERAPIST: They're paying pretty well.

CLIENT: I have no idea, to be honest.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: Usually things revolving around MRIs do. But I don't know the specifics about it. So, both of us have done it back in grad school to make money.

THERAPIST: Oh, neat.

CLIENT: So you can make a decent amount of money.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Yea. So...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:22:25).

CLIENT: Yea. So...

THERAPIST: Can you go in a MRI anymore?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Yea, kind of your...

CLIENT: Metal.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: So... but no. Back then, yea.

THERAPIST: Right. This is before that.

CLIENT: Yea. So I can actually technically. They now have ways of... there isn't much metal actually in there. But it is enough that poor diagnostic MRIs, they rather not. Not for diagnostic, but for research MRIs, they'd rather not.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: It's non... it's not paramagnetic. So... but it is enough that they would rather not. So... plus my vision has gone down in the past ten years. So it's (inaudible at 0:23:07) contacts to do it.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And most the time they do these things where they have you wear something on top of your head that uses mirrors so you can see what you're... what they want you to see while you're in there.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: But yes, it's a very... definitely very low demand... a very low supply in terms of like (inaudible at 0:23:22) people in terms of that. So... but it was actually very, for me, it was very except for the money at the time it was very interesting because I although I understood that I could write with both hands I didn't realize how amazingly integrated in terms of like nonbiased what how my hand it just was not affecting my brain. How much that really was significant. I didn't realize that certain things that are normally like if you're right handed versus left handed or very, very strong in one way or in another. So...

THERAPIST: You mean that you were sort of genuinely not handed. [0:24:02]

CLIENT: Yea. Like as in...

THERAPIST: Or both handed.

CLIENT: ...in certain situations where I would see something but hear something. Like you would see the color blue but it was written in red type kind of thing. If depending upon because you're seeing it and it's in the visual cortex it would light up in one way versus another. It went into if you're left handed, it's like different apparently a little bit. I don't know. But apparently I... to me, it was very fascinating that I had a remarkable talent for that kind of stuff because of the distribution of that is very different than most people. So...

THERAPIST: That's cool.

CLIENT: Yep. So it was... it's nice to be special. Sometimes it's a pain in the ass. I can't see 3D movies the way most people do.

THERAPIST: Oh, really?

CLIENT: Yea. So you can but you can't. The red blue thing when it's skewed it doesn't... you don't process the same way that most people do. [0:25:00] And it's sort of I don't really care that much. But it is kind of like a lame thing to be like yep, I don't really feel like spending extra money on a 3D movie to go out and do that with my friends.

THERAPIST: It's kind of blurry.

CLIENT: Because it just looks mostly like red and blue and blurry. Yea so... but these are very small drawbacks to the fact that it's pretty cool.

THERAPIST: Yea, it doesn't sound like your (inaudible at 0:25:22).

CLIENT: It also was extremely helpful when I was having problems with my hands I still do because I can change hands. I spooked more than a few professors by changing my hand out... changing hands and then starting to take notes on the other hand. It's like, yea. Well, but I can't do it as much in my left hand. I can still write but I just can't do it. It's just more of an arthritis thing than a...

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: ...natural like handedness thing.

THERAPIST: Did you sort of initially learn to write with both?

CLIENT: I don't really know exactly. See, this is where those many things where I want to talk to parents and I know that their perceptions are skewed. [0:26:04] The way they remember it has to be wrong. They claim because my dad is left handed and my mom is right handed that they actually very specifically when I was a kid put things right in front of me so they wouldn't be handed. Like this kind of thing. I'm like I can't imagine that with toddlers and things like that or anything like that that you'd have wherewithal to remember to do that every single... it just doesn't sound like you would remember to do that. I know that I in elementary school that they really forced me, more or less, to be right handed in certain things just because it was easier for teachers. But that was mostly handwriting stuff.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: I know that my handwriting is equally bad on both sides.

THERAPIST: (chuckling)

CLIENT: So... but not really, to me, it's really specifically nothing I remember becoming one way or the other. It wasn't an adaptive to breaking an arm or having problems with my hands or anything like that. [0:27:03] I remember very... for a long time being about to do it with both of my hands for just most of my life.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: So I know that my dad attributes that to the reason why I am extremely verbal but yet, very technical. I don't know if that's true. I think that might be more like a social...

THERAPIST: Yea. (inaudible at 0:27:24). Yea.

CLIENT: ...like it's an acquired skill than something that I was born that way to do. But like I said, they're skewed when they talk about that kind of stuff. They believe what they say about me being an extremely remarkable child.

THERAPIST: (chuckling) Of course they do.

CLIENT: Yea. So...

THERAPIST: Of course they do.

CLIENT: They...

THERAPIST: It's probably what makes them such wonderful parents.

CLIENT: Yea. Though...

THERAPIST: In some ways.

CLIENT: In almost all ways. [0:28:01] But I'm saying like sometimes it's like I said, it's sometimes... what it does is it makes me discount things that may actually be true.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: I see. You've got a kind of an opposite bias in a way.

CLIENT: Yea. Well, I mean, my dad says I was reading at 15 months. Now after much, much, much exploration, we have used the word (inaudible at 0:28:23) which means that I can recognize, by sight, certain words.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And what they meant. I didn't actually know letters or anything like that.

THERAPIST: Yea, (inaudible at 0:28:32).

CLIENT: Or it's like little kids when they get golden arches mean McDonalds.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: That's not reading.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But he tells everybody about me reading at 15 months.

THERAPIST: (chuckling)

CLIENT: Yea. So I'm not... I'm very opposite biased toward that kind of stuff when they say that kind of thing.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: So I... in certain ways, they were just so in touch with like I said my cognitive and emotional development growing up that I'm actually kind of worried about being as good of a parent about that kind of thing. [0:29:05] This is why I'm really hoping that at least my dad will be around and...

THERAPIST: What are you concerned about?

CLIENT: I want give my parents... give my kids as awesome of an experience as I did when I was a kid. And I don't necessarily know that I won't be able to handle that kind of like in the moment...

THERAPIST: Well, you can be differently awesome.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: As best I can tell there are many ways to be an awesome parent. And you may be an awesome parent in a somewhat different way.

CLIENT: Yea. The easiest way to explain this is the way my parents like... OK, so...

THERAPIST: They set the bar pretty high.

CLIENT: They set the bar really, really high. Well, not just in what they expected for me. But like for example when I was probably....

THERAPIST: Probably in the quality of how they dealt with you, yea.

CLIENT: Yea. I was like eight or nine or something. I don't remember. Somewhere pre-puberty but not really a little kid thing. [0:30:03] I was with my parents in Milan and I remember we were doing all this touring. And found out that even now but back then kids who were fantastic, great artists started very, very young. They started training sculptors and they did things with their... reproducing things and the greats at like... and I realize I was actually too old to be a renaissance master. And a point in which I realized oh my God, I just closed a door to me really freaked me out.

And remember going out with my dad at basically out there. And went out for a cup of coffee which actually would have meant like I was having hot chocolate but at the time we sat down and talked about this. And he explained to me that that was OK. That basically that first of all, to love art is important. But there are so many... if you can't become an artist. I didn't even know I wanted to be an artist but I felt like oh my God. I'm like not even old enough to do this, this and this. [0:31:01] How old am I having doors closing on me right now. This is really spooky. He said, "There's... maybe you won't be an artist. But you can grow up and become a patron. You can love art and not be an artist." Whenever I tell people this story about having this conversation with my dad...

THERAPIST: And this was very reassuring to you.

CLIENT: Very reassuring.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: But there... my dad saying there's too many artists, not enough patrons. Grow up and become a patron. That way you can inspire art. And we had a conversation. Then we went and learned about the Sforza's family because we were in Milan.

THERAPIST: Sure, you're in Milan. What the hell, yea.

CLIENT: And showed how these people like they were... heavily influenced this. That's the super wise moment that like it's extremely poignant in my life and I had that all the time. That's the kind of awesomeness that I don't necessarily know if, in the moment, I'm going to have.

THERAPIST: But I would imagine it's the kind of awesomeness that also came from his knowing you in particular. [0:32:08] Like that you... if you were a different kind of kid, well, and freaking out about that he would more likely (ph) say something else.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: And there was a different way to reassuring different kids whatever. And I guess what I'm sort of trying point out to you is I mean, some of it probably indicative of inherit awesomeness as a parent. But some of it is also to do with like his knowing you really well and what you needed.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: And I don't know. It's like that doesn't mean you won't be that awesome with your kid. I mean...

CLIENT: Yea. It's just... and like I said, maybe I am just biased in terms of my parents. But like there are certain things that I really, really hope that my dad is around to help raise...

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: ...our children with. [0:33:04] Because like there's certain things that just are particularly really cool and I don't think of that kind of stuff.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And like I said, they were always encouraging me not necessarily to be like them but to be myself.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: And that they never have been bothered by what I'm doing with my life. Like as in how I make my paycheck.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: Because education is about yourself and your own identification has nothing to do with what... there are different things you do to that pay the rent and things that do to pay the soul. They're attorneys. That's not what's paying... that's what pays the mortgage. That's not what...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:33:46).

CLIENT: Yea. And so my dad writes. He does a ton of things specifically historically. My mom is a huge into the arts and into classical music. Both of them are but they have a lot of interests that have nothing to do with that kind of thing. [0:34:04] And so I hope that I can be that awesome. I really do. I think that that part at least is going to stick with me, at least.

THERAPIST: Well, you never really have many interests in things.

CLIENT: No, no. I had a very myopic view of the world growing up really. But it was very... and part of it's the fact that I had... I did have a very privileged lifestyle growing up. But it's not really just that. I mean, yes, you can have that kind of pubertal moment. Not like in the middle of...

THERAPIST: Right. Milan.

CLIENT: Milan, yea. But those things are easier to have when you have these kinds of things. Especially now most of my teachable moments were in my mind revolve around travel. [0:35:01] But also because we did it a lot. But in certain ways, I mean, there are things that are... that were not so healthy. My dad plays an industry in everything. Whether or not it immediately pays for anything is not the same thing. It's just he doesn't believe in passively see... accepting the world.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: He doesn't like to watch television.

THERAPIST: I see. He's got to always be doing stuff.

CLIENT: And it could be passively if you... if it's something that is stimulating the mind, great.

THERAPIST: Like reading a great book or something.

CLIENT: Yea. Or even just watching television if it is something that is stimulating the mind.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Like I could see watching something and then having a discussion afterwards about it that kind of thing. But he's just not a... he doesn't shop for entertainment. Well, I guess that's more of a female thing but doesn't shop for entertainment. He hates that drives him crazy. My mom sometimes does but not like that much that kind of thing. [0:36:00] So... but I remember at one point being in high school. And I remember that they... we were supposed to be taking a field trip to the grocery store. And my dad is like, "No, no. You're not taking a field trip to the grocery. You're going to just go to school and learn something. We can go to the grocery... you go to this grocery store all the time."

THERAPIST: (chuckling)

CLIENT: And there actually wasn't really meaning behind this. But I think that he felt as if I didn't need to know it which was I needed... I didn't need to be retaught this lesson of how to read prices. And how to realize that everything that's in the center of the store is more expensive than the stuff on the perimeter. And all this kind of stuff which is actually kind of funny because I've met an awful lot of people highly educated who don't know how to balance a checkbook or how to go to a grocery store and buy things properly so that kind of thing.

And there's certain things that were (inaudible at 0:36:56) and certain things that were not so much. They were very strict about a lot of things about that kind of stuff about idleness especially going to the mall to hang out. Really didn't like that. I don't think they do that so much anymore as kids but not as strong as much. But yea, it's like that is the mall as being a social thing. And I actually argue with my parents about this one too. And this was like this was me about 15 talking about like how at least in Medieval times that the marketplace was the center of social structure. And this is actually how I actually ended up being able to go to the mall a little bit was like forming an historical thing about this. And stuff like that.

So it... like I said, they were... as long as I could make a rational and defendable argument, they were pretty OK with most things. They're just... I had to be able to be on top of it which a lot of people thought was... I don't even know how to explain it. [0:38:07] They would find it to be annoying or at least I know there were a lot of parent who thought my parents were overbearing. But it worked for me. I wasn't the kind of... I mean, the kind of kid I was, it totally worked.

THERAPIST: Yea, you're probably perfectly happy to make an argument about how you were able tie the marketplace with the center of...

CLIENT: ...social structure, yea.

THERAPIST: Yea, like a probably perfectly well argument and defend it.

CLIENT: Actually I had a much stronger argument than that too. And how it was OK for me at my age because it's very common to send the first born out to go do the shopping and all that. Yea. I had a very strong argument on this one. It... which... but the... and my mom is a little bit more of a soft person on that. But at the same time, she is actually much... she was much, much stronger about the whole thing of not wanting to be socialized in terms of being (inaudible at 0:39:11) or something and I'm still a little bit pissed at my mom about age appropriateness and behavior and dress and things like that at what she assumed was age appropriateness in the world. And therefore apparently I am now too old to be wearing a miniskirt. And before I was too young to be... apparently there was a long weekend that I did not get the memo.

THERAPIST: (chuckling) (inaudible at 0:39:32).

CLIENT: It was a tight window in which I was allowed to wear a miniskirt and I didn't know about it.

THERAPIST: While they were out of the country somewhere.

CLIENT: Yea, somewhere. Yep, apparently I missed that one.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: And that's the kind of thing I'm a little bit pissed about.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: But that's just who she is. She won't... I mean, at least at this point she'll make a comment about something like that. Like, "Maybe you ought to like start..." She is of the belief that if I did certain things more appropriately, that I would excel more in my life. [0:40:04] I don't think that she has a really good... based upon her social circle, maybe dressing for the job that you want is not... instead of the one that you have is always the right thing to do. But I have a whole closet full of suits. None of them fit me right now but I have a whole closet full of suits that I have no problem wearing. It doesn't bother me at all. This happens to be the job I have. People find that to actually be isolating more than...

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: ...helping it.

THERAPIST: Right, yea. It's just for the right thing to wear at your job.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: And in many situations like today with people who are very young and things like that. They see it as a way to setting up a social barrier instead of showing that you're on the ball. So...

THERAPIST: I'm guess I'm going to go on this. But I just... you say you don't this but I want to throw in my two cents about talking to your parents and say don't protect them too much from what's really going on with you. [0:41:04]

CLIENT: We'll see. Some things I don't want to admit because of partially of them being disappointed. But I want them to just love my husband. He's... that's all the family he's got.

THERAPIST: You love your husband very much. And I'm not sure you could convey a view of him that was all that antipathetic.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: I mean, in certain ways you're very frustrated with him at some different (ph) times.

CLIENT: Yea. We'll see. See what I can do.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: It's really about how much... there also has to be a border of none of your business kind of thing.

THERAPIST: Absolutely. And that's another story.

CLIENT: The addiction thing I still feel like it's none of their business.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I don't know what went on in their sex life. And you know what? [0:41:59] It's none of my business. Not me being a prude. It's just not my place.

THERAPIST: Yea. No, no. I hear you. And maybe you can do both. Like alluding to issues he's had and making it very clear that you really don't want to get into those.

CLIENT: Yea, that he's struggling with some really profound things beyond something you take Prozac for.

THERAPIST: Right, yea.

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: We should stop for now. But I hope you have a good trip.

CLIENT: OK. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Have a good weekend.

CLIENT: I'll see you...

THERAPIST: I'll see you, I guess, two weeks from today.

CLIENT: Yep. See you then.

THERAPIST: Sounds good.

END TRANSCRIPT