TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Oh, I just want to confirm with you.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Will the next meeting be two weeks from today.
THERAPIST: OK. So I was not far off in my... or knowing that you were going away soon.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: OK.
(crosstalk)
THERAPIST: ...take a quick note of it here and I'll put it in my schedule. So let's see. OK. (pause) So that's the 19th?
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: OK. (pause)
CLIENT: I'm slowly healing, sort of. (chuckling)
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Getting there.
THERAPIST: Yea. (pause)
CLIENT: It's just exhausting. But I think it will be good to get out of town. So... (pause) [00:01:10] Excuse me. As long as we can get out of the snow storm hits, that is. We're scheduled right in the middle of it to leave. So we'll see.
THERAPIST: There's going to be another snowstorm?
CLIENT: You didn't know that? Oh yea...
THERAPIST: OK, yea. Maybe I did hear about it this morning.
CLIENT: We can get like a foot of snow between now and the weekend.
THERAPIST: OK. I didn't know it was going to be that big.
CLIENT: Well, you see this one of those things where it's real... like, yea.
THERAPIST: Right, it's pretty vague.
CLIENT: It depends on where it hits. Somebody is getting a lot of snow.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Yea. So... but it's been, like I said, just a lot to have to deal with. It'd be nice to get out. I think... I talked to my husband about this whole thing about wanting to make sure that we are on the same page in terms of how much family time there's going to be and how much we're not going to... if for some reason we end up at some surprise birthday party for our niece, we'll be polite. [00:02:12]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: We're not going to make a big deal about it. But we're not going to... like if we know about it ahead of time, we may excuse ourselves and just leave a gift.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: But as long as we don't have that ta-da kind of thing. So...
THERAPIST: And you guys were obviously pretty much on the same page?
CLIENT: Yea. We're on the same page on that one.
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: So it... based upon now that everyone has been too... everyone who has had dealings with his family on a negative way has usually been too polite to say things as they really are.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Or would cover for somebody for saying things as they really are.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Mike's (sp?) aunt sent him an e-mail. Mike (sp?) (inaudible at 0:02:55) his aunt is... she's dating someone who has like driven his long, crazy, blah, blah, blah kind of thing. They all live in that little compound. I think I told you. About a 10,000 square foot house.
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: Yes. Now I say the word "compound." I don't really mean compound.
THERAPIST: No, I understand. Ten-thousand square feet...
CLIENT: That's a compound here.
THERAPIST: That's a big house. Yes.
CLIENT: Yea. So... and basically because Mike's (sp?) one that can't be in the same house as Myra's (sp?) boyfriend. Who also, by the way, is her high school sweetheart. Nadine (sp?) knew him back then, too.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Yea. She can't be in the same time. She has started the same kind of crap that she did with me back in the day. They can't be in the same zip code, that kind of thing.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: Then she didn't actually say zip code. I'm joking about that but it's pretty darn close.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:03:47). Yea.
CLIENT: I mean, usually she is in a different zip code. Well, now they've been playing these days off, days on. His aunt is moving out because of this. I got another house after all of this. And she actually said something that was possibly the most honest thing I've heard in 20 years which was... Mike (sp?) forwarded me the e-mail about it. [00:04:10] Something about being really... I'm going to quote it. Hold on a second. This is... my memory is just kind of shot on that one. But it was something that was profound to hear because no one ever says anything like that to us. OK. (pause) Here it is. OK, just the very end of it here. (pause)
OK, something like that. "Your mom has been a great move with me. I think it's because I'm moving out or maybe not. I just don't know. I'm feeling kind of sad in general about the way things have gone but there's nothing I can do about it. Your mother seems to control grandpa." I mean that kind of thing.
THERAPIST: Yep.
CLIENT: And I was like...
THERAPIST: Yep. That's much more direct. [00:05:03]
CLIENT: That's a lot more direct than anything that's ever been said.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: As opposed to like trying to say, "Oh, you're misunderstood," or this or that.
THERAPIST: That must be a little reassuring and sort of affirming.
CLIENT: It's affirming. It's affirming especially to know it's a pattern. It isn't just like something weird. But it's really sad because it's not anything any of us can break. (pause) And the more and more Mike (sp?) and I talk about his childhood I was actually at a point where I was doing something. That getting something from my childhood that I really liked. I like macaroons. Now that they're trendy and there's one place that makes them. [00:06:03]
THERAPIST: Macaroons like French style macaroons?
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: I even get them.
CLIENT: But there are no French patisseries like places that are... but can you get them around here?
THERAPIST: Yea, at they have (inaudible at 00:06:18) macaroons.
CLIENT: I just never noticed. Sometimes it was basically noticing a French bakery. Therefore, that's what I was looking for was...
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Yea, no big deal. It's not a big deal. But I was just going out there and talking about this kind of thing. At first, I was talking about just certain happy things. And I was saying to Mike (sp?), "Does this bother you that I'm talking about these happy experiences of going out with my mom to buy macaroons...
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: ...from a place, this quintessential bakery," blah, blah, blah. [00:07:02] And he said no, actually he liked hearing about this kind of stuff. And it doesn't bother him at all to hear about these things. As long I'm being honest with myself, I never thought I had a perfect childhood. I had moments that were idyllic.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Never perfect. But there are these just moments of just awesomeness. And I am... I'm never trying to say it was always like that. But things like that. But he was definitely not upset about me talking about it.
THERAPIST: It actually makes me feel like he's in a better world.
CLIENT: Yea. I think he mentioned the fact that it was like having... it was like being at a boarding house where the adults were toddlers. Because he was talking about the fact that he was a little kid and he ruined his laundry because he did the laundry wrong or something like that. And his mom didn't even though he was little and it was weird to have pink clothes she never got him more clothes and things like that. And I'm like, "What age were you?" And he's like, "I don't know. Maybe first grade, maybe a little younger." [00:08:02] And I'm thinking, and you were doing the laundry?
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And he's talking about the fact that if you didn't cook for yourself, that if you then didn't cook, there was nothing to eat.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: And it's like why did you have a parent. I mean, you could have done just as well at like some poor kid's halfway house. And things like that. It just doesn't... it was so ignored. And so... and I do have a certain amount of guilt. It's... (pause) I'm very careful about it. I'm not as bad as I could be. A certain amount of guilt due to the fact that I did have a very fortunate upbringing. It depends on who I'm around. I'm sort of... I sort of edit it based upon who I'm around based upon that... the information. Because sometimes it just seems a little weird to have these kinds of conversations. [00:09:08]
But I am getting better about it. For a while there, especially around his family and such even before I knew about this kind of stuff I had to be really careful about making... basically in terms of saying things that sounded like I was too high maintenance. Not only too much... not too high maintenance but I lived too spoiled of a life. Does that make sense?
THERAPIST: Who would want to think that?
CLIENT: His family back in the day. (pause)
THERAPIST: Of course they were going to think that. I mean...
CLIENT: In general though it is... and people do think of when... if you just hear about this kind of stuff in certain situations, it can sound a lot... very pretentious. [00:10:00]
THERAPIST: I mean your parents traveled with you. They paid attention to you. They did nice things for you. They got you involved in activities you cared about, tried to be supportive of you.
CLIENT: Sometimes those stories are actually darkly funny, very dark. I remember people talking about the concept of how they want to do a space camp. I explained to them that I really did go and I cried the entire time. And it was like they were the world's worst...
THERAPIST: What happened at space camp?
CLIENT: ...in terms of every year which wasn't that big of a deal. When doing space camp wasn't called space camp but they have different years of things. I was on this border of an age and so it was a very high stress situation. It wasn't just about intellect. It had to do with things fast thinking, being able to be situational awareness. [00:11:08]
THERAPIST: How are you supposed to do that? Like what class...
CLIENT: You learn about space operations. You have classes and you learn how to calculate stuff and things like that. It was...
THERAPIST: It was like...
CLIENT: It's like the astronauts. Yea, you spend... (inaudible at 00:11:24). It's not that far off at that age. And it was just... intellectually I was OK-ish. I was exhausted. It was a lot to do. I was still at that age where I was just physically still growing. It was just... I mean, I was just too young, too young in many ways.
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: And so I would have, at least once a day, a frustration meltdown.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: So that's just what it was. [00:12:00] But it's kind of, in its way now, I think it's funny to hear the story about it because yep, I really, really wanted to go. It's the thing that every kid says they dream about. I cried the whole time. I wanted to go home. (chuckling) The point is that's it's an underlying joke. But there are these very things about my life that are...
THERAPIST: Yea, but I haven't heard that your parents.... well, they pay attention to you. They traveled because they wanted you to see the world.
CLIENT: I was spoiled with a lot of things but they're not spoiled in terms of behavior. It was more like...
THERAPIST: I don't know. Spoiled in my mind means like that they sort of...
CLIENT: I never owned a car until I got married.
THERAPIST: Yea, they didn't take you places or buy you stuff just because you had to have stuff and they had to buy you all sorts of stuff. They probably bought you things you liked and used. [00:13:10] And they traveled and they probably taught you Spanish when you were in Spain.
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: And told you about culture and customs and history. That's not being spoiled. That's just being parented and well taken care of.
CLIENT: It's a little above and beyond at that point. My mom really, really liked having a little girl.
THERAPIST: That doesn't mean she spoiled you. It means she enjoyed you.
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: That's just a wonderful thing. There's nothing bad about that. What do you have to feel for about that? It's just a terrific thing.
CLIENT: Yea. For a long time I was worried because the kind of things they said, it sounds a little bit so fantastical that maybe it's like being made up kind of shit.
THERAPIST: Well, like what?
CLIENT: For example, at one point in my life, my mom and I were... basically the things like that I was having a very, very hard period time in my life. And she spoke to somebody she knew basically. And in restoration related things with jewelry and I got to try on tiaras, that kind of stuff. [00:14:10]
THERAPIST: That's just cool. When was that?
CLIENT: About 12. It's that awkward age when like you're not a kid, you're not an adult. So she made a... she basically had a special thing where I was able to go in. And basically where they're doing all this restoration stuff I got to try on tiaras.
THERAPIST: That's just thoughtful. It's not like they bought you a whole bunch of stuff to buy you stuff to make you feel better which is what more I think of as spoiled.
CLIENT: Yea. I mean, I had a lot of stuff but yea.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:14:38). But that's just thoughtful. You enjoyed it.
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: That's just being caring.
CLIENT: She just pulled strings that to sort of doing something really different.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: It was actually where I was at that age where her and I were just sort of...
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: Yea. I mean, there are kids have probably good parents who didn't do stuff quite like that but that's not being spoiled. That's just being cared for.
CLIENT: I guess so. Yea.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:15:06) thoughtfully (ph).
CLIENT: Yea. There are things that probably went above and beyond. There is the quintessential story of being a spoiled brat at one point is being in my first apartment with a bunch of roommates and not having enough money at the time for my electric bills. And so my mom bought me all these presents. She didn't pay my electric bill but she bought me lots of presents.
THERAPIST: What did she get you?
CLIENT: Clothes and fashionable stuff. And it's sort of a running joke. They're like, "You're all going to throw on all the clothes at once." But she didn't want to pay my electric bill because I needed to learn how to budget the money that I had to pay the electric bill. That was an important thing. I needed to learn that part. It wasn't...
THERAPIST: Why you were poor just out of school? Only... I only ask...
CLIENT: No, this was in school. This was junior year. There was something going on. There was something in which I had many roommates and this is one of those weird things. [00:16:06]
THERAPIST: Were you... you were in school, of course you were poor.
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: I mean were you working?
CLIENT: I was working part-time. There was something in which there was it went above and... there was like just some electrical situation in which I'm sure it had something to do with my chore. I... the... every time I hear the story, it gets bigger. And so I don't really remember the real truth of what happened in this one. But it was something in which we had some enormous electric bill and none of us could afford to pay it. And none of our parents were going to bail us out of some...
THERAPIST: Were you all engineers at that...
CLIENT: Yea, but it wasn't just that.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: There was something that was not right...
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: ...in that not someone just leaving the lights on or something like that. There was something going on.
THERAPIST: Yea, I get it. Something that was really... yea.
CLIENT: Something was screwed up and it was three times more than it should've been. And there's something going on. [00:17:00] And I remember my mom bought me all these clothes that one year and this and that. And they were like, "OK, we'll all put the clothes on. We'll stay warm that way." But that was kind of a weird, quirky thing. Here you have troubles, have some clothes. But that's normally... I mean, she's like that. (pause) The... but it's just I have a very... it... like I said, I have to be really careful because I used to be not guarded about that. And I've gotten some very, very negative, kind of snarky things said to me in the past.
THERAPIST: And are these from Mike's (sp?) family?
CLIENT: From Mike's (sp?) family or just in general.
THERAPIST: Those are people who had their son doing the laundry when he was seven.
CLIENT: I know. But not just those kinds of people.
THERAPIST: Those are people who were so bad to their kid, he doesn't remember his childhood. [00:18:08]
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: It's all very, very fucked up.
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: And any kind of decent parenting was going to look like spoiling and lavishing attention and care. And that's just because that's just so far out of whack that it makes things that are normal or good look bad.
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: I mean...
CLIENT: That is true.
THERAPIST: I mean I can understand that if there was somebody who was upset about that and resentful or envious that you don't want to talk about it because it'd make them feel bad or they're critical. And I would guess that's probably going on with them. They're envious or critical or something. But like...
CLIENT: I think it's...
THERAPIST: ...I think it's not any kind of reasonable standard of comparison for anything.
CLIENT: Yea. I think it's more along the lines of... and this is sort of a weird thing. [00:19:04] I don't... I was... I grew up with people around me who were like me and things like that. I mean, and coming from the insular bubble of just being who I am and being as honest about who I am as possible and running into situations where you don't necessarily be as honest about who you are.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: And it... sometimes I really put my foot in my mouth on that.
THERAPIST: Yea, but at the same time, no matter who you're talking to, you have nothing to feel bad about. In other words, you don't have anything to feel guilty about for the way that you were raised. I mean, it's too bad if somebody else didn't have it as good. But...
CLIENT: I feel like at least on some level part of the reason why I'm treated so poorly is because they have this idea that I am a pampered princess.
THERAPIST: Well, you know what, looking... judging by how they treat the people in their family, they were going to come up with some idea of how you weren't worth treating well. [00:20:06] Who have they treated well?
CLIENT: Mike's (sp?) sister.
THERAPIST: But not Mike (sp?), not in-laws, not... I mean...
CLIENT: With some people, yes. Some people, no. I am, on the record, the only female that's had this problem. But I tend to, in her mind, show characteristics of things she dislikes about men. Because I say things like...
THERAPIST: She's talking crazy.
CLIENT: Yea. Saying things like... and I had the ballsiness of saying things like, "I really don't feel like it matters if I'm the..." because I was the first female engineer at my particular (ph) section. They had mechanical and a couple other things and things like that. And I'd be like, "Well, that's great and all. I can use the men's bathroom. Aside from that, that's really the only thing that being... missing that Y chromosome makes me different about my job."
And I was very upfront about my feelings about that in terms of not feeling oppressed and not... saying that... I never said that it wasn't like that. I never said that there isn't and wasn't situations like that. [00:21:15] But in the world that I was, I had a very distinct lack of that. And therefore, I really feel like the... like coming in and feeling like the world is trying to put me... I never felt that.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: And I thought that was really irrational to be like, "OK, so this is... this comes with the best person for the job as a woman kind of thing. Again, not important.
THERAPIST: Yea, because the best person for the job is the best person for the job.
CLIENT: Yea. Absolutely. And that's why I make the joke about the... well in a pinch I guess I could use a different bathroom. But aside from that, that's the only thing that really makes the difference.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And to me that's the way I've always felt. And I'm not saying that it isn't like that in other worlds. Trust me. I'm sure it is.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:22:03]
CLIENT: I think it was a very good thing that I was the first one at the plant that I was at. Me being the way I was because I really didn't have this whole, "I'm special. I'm different. I'm a girl bullshit. I think that that got them very open minded to that and so if they did any more hiring that might have been different. But it was definitely an old boys' network, very much one that could have easily gone south. But because of the fact that I was clumping around like manufacturers in high heels and getting down and talking to people like in fabrication, they thought it was a hoot because here I was one of the boys in high heels and a suit. They thought that was great.
THERAPIST: Did you have fun?
CLIENT: Yea. I did because it doesn't really matter. That's not what it's about. That's... it's about the job and that kind of stuff. And so... but on some level, I guess I really did step on some toes with... I know that his mom is very, very sensitive to that kind of thing. [00:23:07]
THERAPIST: I don't think you're going to win with her.
CLIENT: I don't think I'm going to win with her, either.
THERAPIST: And probably no matter who you were.
CLIENT: Yep.
THERAPIST: Maybe if you had totally kissed her ass. But...
CLIENT: Maybe.
THERAPIST: ...otherwise, I mean...
CLIENT: Yea. I'm waiting to hear because the person we're going to be around this week and primarily Rowland (sp?). Rowland (sp?) had the greatest stories about growing up in that. And some of them were funny. Some of them are actually kind of creepy. Things like that.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Rowland (sp?) would come home and he learned all kinds of feminist terms like Peter Pan syndrome in reference to his own father. And you can image how like, "Mike's (sp?) mom said that you have a Peter Pan syndrome." And...
THERAPIST: It's crazy. Nobody says shit like that to their kids' friends about their kids' friends' parents. I mean, nobody does that. That's craziness.
CLIENT: So like... and who cares.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:24:03]
CLIENT: But yea, I have to be kind of careful about that, though. Because I can really, really piss people off.
THERAPIST: Well...
CLIENT: And I know they think my parents are overbearing as all get out. And you know what? It's to everyone's taste. Maybe it is a little bit.
THERAPIST: No. I think it's more... far more likely that your parents are very nice people and your mother-in-law is totally off the wall.
CLIENT: Well, my mom can drive you... but she is a larger than life human being.
THERAPIST: Is she?
CLIENT: Something... on some levels a little bit more like... something that is like almost a 60s film or something, a little bit. She lives a larger than life. She likes to have conversations. She likes to talk to people.
THERAPIST: How about this? I would contend then that in whatever ways your mother can be difficult and maybe she can be...
CLIENT: They're nice ways, though.
THERAPIST: They are totally orthogonal from whatever your mother-in-law might have made of her.
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: You know what I'm saying? [00:25:01]
CLIENT: And she's... my mother... the things that drive her crazy are the things that make my mom a fabulous hostess. She finds what you're interested in and says, "Oh. Is that related to this?" And she will make it a point of being interested in anything you have to say and ask questions because that's just who she is. And sometimes it can drive people up the wall. Sometimes it even push Mike's (sp?) buttons because she'd be like, "I heard this and blah, blah, blah. And how is..." We've been... they know what my parents... my parents know about Mike's (sp?) depression and medications and things like that. They know nothing about the addiction. My mom is like, "Hey, I know that things have been... you've been really low lately. How are things going?"
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: That drives him crazy because he wants to say go away. Leave me along. Let's pretend this isn't happening.
THERAPIST: Right, yea. Well, that's one of the problems people often have who grow up in environments like he does. And I have seen people... I remember people who've grown in environments... people who as a seven year old had to get her mother coffee and get her out of bed to take her to school. [00:26:04] Or somebody else who, from four or five, was really kind of on her own almost all the time out playing or doing whatever she wants. I've seen people like that and one of the things that can be very difficult about that is later on it can be very hard to respond to people being nice or supportive or caring.
CLIENT: Well, I know that at least some people when they're depressed they don't want people to bring any attention to that either, though.
THERAPIST: That's also true. Sure.
CLIENT: But my mom is sincerely worried and concerned. And she's asked if there's something she can do.
THERAPIST: It sounds like the vehemence of what she's kind of like whoa. I guess that sounds to me more like having somebody pay attention than it sounds like it's not wanting (inaudible at 00:26:53).
CLIENT: It's just slightly more attentive than... because she tries a little harder than she would normally with other people with Mike (sp?) because she likes him.
THERAPIST: Of course, it's her son-in-law. [00:27:05]
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: He's part of her family. She tries harder.
CLIENT: Of course. But to him, that...
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: ...makes him feel like a fish out of water.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: But he takes it and they still play Scrabble over the Internet.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Mike's (sp?) out playing Scrabble over the Internet with his mom which is, by the way, something I would think that at least it's so removed. They don't even talk. This is just like playing words so one would think that that would be OK. But that's not... that's just not what it's about.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: It's... I... like I said, I'm looking forward to going away. I'm really hoping that we can... although we will stay with Mike's (sp?) dad a night or two, I'm really trying to keep the distance that we need to have because it's....
THERAPIST: Where will you stay most of the time?
CLIENT: With a friend of Mike's (sp?). A different friend of Mike's (sp) from high school and his family and his boys. So the... but we just need to have the space. [00:28:10]
Mike's (sp?) dad is right next to the airport so there's unfortunately on either side of the visit there's that... we can't get away with not doing it. But that's not the point of this visit and Mike (sp?) is still completely distraught and I'm feeling very emotionally unhappy about the fact that his sister completely I don't even know how to explaining squandered a perfectly good free house. That's probably the best way to explain it. I don't know. That's just un-freaking-believable. [00:28:59]
But it is... and I have to admit that I... this is one thing. And I'm not normally the kind of person who Internet stalks people. I really don't. However, sometimes when I'm put in situations where I'm walking into a situation that I don't know anything about, I will do a little bit of obsessive Internet stalking. I just want to know what I'm walking into. So I will try and do something. See if there's anything I need to know about what's going on. So I was checking out the house. The house is not for sale. I'm pretty sure it's condemned. It's the only way that this... she's no longer in this home. It's not for sale. Like for "for sale." It's not realty owned which is a foreclosure sale.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: I grew up in the real estate industry so I unfortunately also have ways of being able to look up property stuff that it's not above and... I know more about how to do that than others. I'm pretty sure it's going to have to be leveled. That's the only... I knew that the... that because she never took care of the foundation, that it cracked and did some enormous amount of damage. [00:30:08]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So...
THERAPIST: You were explaining about how she needed to water the foundation.
CLIENT: Yea, you have to water the foundation once a week. Yea. Never. And you need to put water into the ground a lot. It's just the nature of the soil there.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: But... so I just did a little bit of stalking about that and a little bit of vague stuff just because I wanted to know what possible could be going on, that kind of thing. I didn't spend hours doing it. But I always feel bad when I do it. I always feel wrong after doing it. And so I feel like I want to stop doing that kind of stuff. I want to be able to be in situations where I feel confident enough that I don't have to feel like I need to do my research before I go into it. Does that sound dumb?
THERAPIST: Why would it sound dumb?
CLIENT: I don't want to have to spy on people to find out what's going on. [00:31:01] And of course I'm like, "Oh, well, this..." that I can see that...
THERAPIST: Well, I think you feel like you're in danger going to visit them.
CLIENT: Very much so.
THERAPIST: And you feel sort of like forewarned is forearmed a little bit. So I imagine you're kind of trying to protect yourself and it might work. So no, I don't think it's dumb.
CLIENT: OK. That's good to know. I mean, Mike's (sp?) brother is technically his... so there's four siblings. His sister is the oldest. He's the second. His brother right after him... which was a different wife wife number two, not wife number three, wife number two child, Brad (sp?). He is technically on the run from the law for meth distribution. So again... and Mike's (sp?) dad is so laissez faire about it. He's like, "It wasn't my house they put up on up to get him out of jail. So I guess it's not my problem," though he sees him from time to time. And when I hear these stories, he's like, "Yea, he's thinking about turning himself in at this point." [00:32:02]
It's so freaking bizarre how saying that kind of thing. I really... I find that to be completely confusing. But at the same time also I don't have a child who does heroin and occasionally sells meth. So I don't know how much you have to be like, "I don't understand, I don't know but I'm not going to have anything involved in this." I can see that you'd be kind of withdrawn about that.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: And then there's the youngest which is pretty OK. We're hoping he marries this girl from Europe so that he can get out of the country because he would be normal then.
THERAPIST: Yea, that would be good of him.
CLIENT: Yea. But it's like there are distinct, obvious, obvious problems in the family. And they sort of manifest themselves in different situations. One of them spends too much. And Mike (sp?) obviously has self-soothing problems. [00:33:03] One of them has lots of drug problems. He has weapons violations. He's been in jail. He's gone AWOL from the military. He is...
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: There's a lot. And he's not even 30. How can one have that much of a record? And then there's a relatively good kid who apparently had a DUI... this is not from Google stalking. I heard this because as soon as one of them gets a DUI, of course I get these calls. Like, "Hey, I heard I had to go pick up Nick (sp?)." It's like I was very worried about that but it looks like that's a one-time stupidity thing, not a...
THERAPIST: Pattern of behavior.
CLIENT: ...pattern of behavior. But at 22 is a worrisome thing at the time. And so now Mike (sp?) and I... well, I'm not officially biologically related to it but Mike (sp?) is the only one of his father's children who has not actually been picked up for a DUI and... or some sort of intoxication of some sort.
THERAPIST: Kerry (sp?) was?
CLIENT: Yea. [0:34:05] I was involved in bailing her out back in '93, '94. She was married. Totally just went out with a bunch of girls from work. This... drinking and driving is not all that uncommon down there. You go out for happy hour, you have a little bit too much to drink and next thing you know for some reason at 6:00 pm you're being pulled in for a DUI.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So yea, I was involved with that. I don't remember much about it to be honest. But these are the kind of things where I occasionally kind of want to look up to see what's been going on because I don't want to walk into this shit. It could be a nightmare down there. I don't know. I'm not Google stalking our hosts. I'm not Google stalking the people for the party because Rowland (sp?) is freaking like... he was in magazines for the work he did for his company. If I need to Google stalk him, it's in the major magazines. [00:35:03]
THERAPIST: What did he do again?
CLIENT: He started... he was one of the very first companies to take and fix sick buildings. These... basically his idea of turning these buildings green. Ones that had problems with things with...
THERAPIST: HVAC?
CLIENT: HVAC, all... I mean, it's not just that. It's a whole systematic thing.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: So everything from the way that they handle water runoff to the water runoff being used for cleaning for this. I mean, literally everything that there's no waste involved. Really cool stuff. The air that comes out of the HVAC is cleaner than the air that goes in.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: All kinds of really cool stuff.
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Yea. And in addition, just building new buildings that do that, it's taking the old ones and building physically on top of the building that's already there and adding on. Really cool stuff, really innovative stuff.
THERAPIST: Around the country?
CLIENT: Around the country, yea. [00:36:01] Different ways of heating and cooling the building naturally, all kinds of stuff, really neat things. I don't feel like even remotely worried about doing some research about that.
THERAPIST: Yea. Well, he's not scary.
CLIENT: He's not scary. So... but I feel like I'm always in the dark. And so occasionally if I put their address in and it comes up on a police blotter, of course I'm going to read what the police blotter came back for the household.
THERAPIST: Yea, you must be really nervous about seeing them. And what's going to happen and who's going to say something awful and what kind of treatment. How people are treating each other or treating the kids that in some ways are going horrify you. I mean, it must be kind of scary to go down there to see them. I mean that part of the trip. The rest of it I know you're really looking forward to.
CLIENT: But even just just randomly... just these passing comments about certain things and how... like they think this kind of stuff is amusing. [00:37:00] It's like I just don't think that that kind of stuff is... I mean, I guess that if you have no control over certain situations, saying that you think this is funny is great. Or at least amusing but it's really not. These are things... this is potentially, in a certain situation, self-mutilation or this or that or it's kind of worrisome when your kids all of a sudden turn their hair green or whatever.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: No, it's not necessarily... and the end of it all the fact that one kid dyed their hair green is not necessarily the problem. Kids do things like that.
THERAPIST: Yea, that's not... kids do things like that.
CLIENT: But why in the world they planned to do it, that's the thing that we worry about.
THERAPIST: Well, it depends on what's going on with the kid. I mean, self-mutilation, winding up on the police blotter, that's a different story.
CLIENT: Yea.
THERAPIST: Like some...
CLIENT: Well, sometimes also wanting to change yourself so badly that you're willing to make your hair green and you were not like that last week. Maybe I just don't know kids anyways.
THERAPIST: Sometimes kids just dye their hair green. I mean... (chuckling)
CLIENT: (chuckling)
THERAPIST: I don't know.
CLIENT: I think that I don't know...
THERAPIST: Yea, I've known plenty of normal really untroubled high school kids.
CLIENT: It's not that (inaudible at 00:38:09) like that at all. It's just like people think, "Is everything OK?"
THERAPIST: Yea.
CLIENT: Did you want to change yourself that much? [00:38:13]
THERAPIST: Right. That's a different story. There are things that go along with it. That's true.
CLIENT: Yea. OK, like I said, I...
THERAPIST: From what I know anyway like just the hair green parts can be really benign.
CLIENT: Yea. And the thing is, like I said, I live such amazingly, like I say, like closeted... not closeted. I guess safe, very like insular world that I am not saying that these things aren't normal or anything like that. But sometimes I don't always...
THERAPIST: Well, some of them really aren't.
CLIENT: Sometimes I don't always know what is and isn't normal because of the fact that I literally only knew one kid who had a divorce in my community my best friend whose parents got along very well. When Mike (sp?) told me stories about the things related to divorce, I didn't have any reference to know valid/not valid.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And I'm not one of those people like, "None of the people I grew up with were divorced. Your kid..." I've never been like there's something wrong with it. [00:39:04]
THERAPIST: Right. You just didn't know.
CLIENT: I just didn't know what to expect or what seems OK or normal because I have no point of reference from friendships to know if it's normal not to see this person or is this normal. Just don't know. And it's because of that having that whirlwind. There are a lot of changes. I just guess. I don't know what a danger sign is and what's not. And it's a problem. It's a really big problem. And yea, it's... though I do really enjoy it down there when I'm around the people that we like. I just don't want to move there for obvious reasons.
THERAPIST: Yea, sure. [00:40:03]
CLIENT: But it seems like I do feel like I have to be really worried. And I feel like it's not unfounded. This is not unfounded at all. (pause) We have walked into some pretty amazingly weird stuff at one point or another because we didn't know about some things. Mike's (sp?) father was at dinner with my parents years ago and my parents asked about how Brad (sp?) was doing because at the time that they'd last saw Brad (sp?), he had a love of horses. My mother had horses in her period over her life. They decided to talk and asked how he's doing. "Oh, he's going to get out the jail pretty soon now." What? I probably would've... I don't know what I would've done. But I would've... having walked into that.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:41:06]
CLIENT: Yea. Or showing up for Christmas and there's no food. I would have brought food if I knew it.
THERAPIST: Yea. See that kind of thing is just like... that's so unusual. It just doesn't happen.
CLIENT: Well...
THERAPIST: I mean, clearly happens somewhere. But it...
CLIENT: It only happens to me. But because of that I'm actually making sure that I'm only taking... and it sounds weird to say this. I'm only bringing as much medication as I need. I am not bringing any narcotic medication even though I think I might need it. And I'm making sure my name is on everything. That sounds stupid. I know exactly how much is that's going to be in there because God only knows what could happen while we're over there and the right kids or in the wrong situation.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: That's... one of them got his start with stealing people's stuff. So that's not unwise. And if the police come, I want to make sure that my name is on all the bottles as opposed to not so that way they can say, "Whose is this?" This is mine. [0:42:07]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So...
THERAPIST: Well, we got to stop for now. But I hope it's a great trip. I hope...
CLIENT: I think it's going to go better than I... I'm just preparing for the worst just in case. And so I will see you in two weeks.
THERAPIST: Do you need a hand with the door?
CLIENT: No, I'm getting there. If I sit still, I get stiff. But then by the time I take a few steps, I'm pretty good.
THERAPIST: OK. All right. Take care.
CLIENT: Thanks. Yea.
END TRANSCRIPT
