TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I did e-mail you or text you?

THERAPIST: Yeah, you did.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Letting me know that you would likely be late.

CLIENT: Okay. Yeah, as soon as I knew that, like (sighs) Today has been really hard to get through so far, so I just, you know. It's rough to do the commute and things like that, you know? It's really physically challenging.

THERAPIST: I could imagine.

CLIENT: And I don't know if I've ever told you this. I probably have a dozen times. I have a lot of guilt when I ask my husband for help -

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: with that. And I don't think that that is unfounded, since I know that he doesn't he's one of those people who's really unhe doesn't deal with traffic well, so whew (ph). And, as you can imagine, yeah, he doesn't mind driving me out, like, on Sunday mornings. It's just that if he's supposed to be at work anyways, driving me in and then trying to come back and do that traffic drives him crazy. [00:01:23]

He doesn't lay it on thick or anything like that. It doesn't even really do anything, but I know he finds it really unpleasant. So I do my very best to now, mind you, I mean, when I say this, you know, I do rely upon him a lot. A lot more than I really want to, you know. About half of my trips back-and-forth are in some way him taking me, like, either there or back or...

THERAPIST: (inaudible 01:55)

CLIENT: Yeah. Usually there, just because of the fact that it's a little harder to get the timeline right to be there in time. But I just (pause) I (inaudible 02:15) beat myself up so badly whenever I have to do that, you know. I see it a personal failing (ph) on my part. I see it the guilt is so complex. It's personally me feeling like I'm going to keep him from doing stuff, like, productive or whatever, you know. I feel like (pause) I feel like the stress I have contributes to his, you know, sometimes inability to be productive at his job, and that's really hard.

Many times, when he drops me off at home or off at work, he goes back asleep after a while (inaudible 03:04) four hours after that point, because [he's so exhausted from work] (ph). He has a migraine or something like that. Sometimes he goes and gets groceries, which is actually, he does that a decent bit of the time. But, you know, it's just (pause) I just think that he's got enough problems on his plate without me contributing to more of them, you know.

And this is something that, you know, it isn't something I just decided in my head and it's not real. I know it bothers him. I know it's really (inaudible 03:42), like, helping me with this kind of stuff. Sometimes he loves doing it. Sometimes it just makes him really bitter, you know. And it's like I have no idea at any given time what's going to make him feel okay.

THERAPIST: Exactly.

CLIENT: And I can't always trust to get the right answer out of it. I know that he knows that if I'm feeling bad enough that I want help...

THERAPIST: Right, [when you're feeling] (ph) pretty bad.

CLIENT: Yeah. So, like, this morning, I had to convince myself not to call out sick, which consisted of, "Well, I could get fired, and I don't have the money not to." And, you know, it is what it is, I guess. (Sighs)

I'm (ph) just kind of physically and emotionally worn out. I have one really good piece of news, which is a friend of mine from college has just bought a house maybe a block, block-and-a-half away from me.

THERAPIST: Oh, cool.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Somebody moving -

CLIENT: He actually we reconnected when Sarah died last fall. We took him and a couple of other people from the (inaudible 05:15) area down to the funeral. And (inaudible 05:18) fraternity brother, you know, this and that. Like, I've always said, you know I've always (inaudible 05:25) cool, in terms of, like, not, like, cool in personality but always had great ideas, always had this, that. And Mike really likes him, so it will be nice to have him (ph).

THERAPIST: Oh, good.

CLIENT: He'd (ph) been living further out. His company was just doing a whole bunch of stuff, so we hadn't really gotten the chance to get back together. But when he said he bought a house near me, I'm like, "Wow."

THERAPIST: That's great.

CLIENT: Super great. I get to know your wife and family now, which is, you know. It's not that it's that far away, but the, you know, that short of a distance totally takes down a lot of barriers, especially because he is a stay-at-home dad while he has a business. So it could be like a, "Hey, you know what, I'll come over and watch your kid for a little bit if you needed to make some, you know, conference calls or something like that."

THERAPIST: Yeah. Sounds (ph) cool. How old is their kid (ph)?

CLIENT: This is really interesting. I was asked this earlier by a friend and I said, "I'm pretty sure that he is out of diapers, but not old enough to buy cigarettes. (Laughter) I don't really I want to say, like, the way he describes him and I'm sure he told me I want to say, like, four, five.

THERAPIST: In school?

CLIENT: Maybe he might not be. If he's in school, he might not be school age. If he is, like, it's an earlier school thing. Does that make sense?

THERAPIST: Maybe four.

CLIENT: Four, five? I don't know.

THERAPIST: Four, maybe five, yeah.

CLIENT: I know that he is in school, but it is not all the time. I swear it's supplementary -

THERAPIST: [Sounds like] (ph) preschool.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I haven't met any of his family yet, so I'm looking forward to it.

THERAPIST: Well, that's great news.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think so too. So that's (sighs) yeah. I was just trying to recruit him and his family to come to my friend is opening a restaurant, and I think we could just go out and well, she did open it. And sort of see what's going on and take the temperature, and see what kind of trouble she's gotten herself into. So we'll see.

It's good that I mean, there's a lot of drama going around (inaudible 07:49), but for me, knowing what people are doing, is a lot of drama going on. But at the very least, it's social interaction for me. And I'm trying to convince her not to get married unless without actually ever saying it or ever actually doing anything. And just simply (pause) I don't know how to explain. I'm just not gushing about it. Her partner, I'm not especially thrilled with (inaudible 08:19) human being, and I'm pretty sure he's a criminal.

THERAPIST: Oh. That's not so good.

CLIENT: Yeah. There's just little things like that that just...

THERAPIST: [That doesn't sound so illegal] (ph).

CLIENT: I'm sorry?

THERAPIST: (inaudible 08:31)

CLIENT: It's more instinct. Having owned businesses, run businesses, things like that, it's instinct, more than I don't have any solid evidence.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Though he has openly said things like the fact that, like, a lot of certain they owned a wine store, and then they magically, with no like, I don't know how much she really knows. And my friend is one of those people that can be really oblivious. Like, one day they had the wine shop, and the next day they're being evicted (Phone vibrates)

THERAPIST: Oh, jeez. I'm sorry.

CLIENT: It's okay.

THERAPIST: I had it when you were late, I eventually (ph) turned it on.

CLIENT: It's okay. But yeah, so, like, with no time whatsoever, they're being evicted, supposedly because the mall wanted to have a different, like, occupant in that space with, like, 30 days notice. Which is weird, because I finally went to the mall. I was horrified to find out how economically depressed it is. I had no idea. Like, I had no idea.

THERAPIST: It's really bad.

CLIENT: Yeah. Whenever there's a Microsoft store in a mall, it's usually the nicest mall in town, this and that. Half the stores were, like, not boarded up, but they had no occupants. Something about that just doesn't ring true about the no-occupancy thing. They supposedly really wanted that spot. There's a couple of other things though. It's just very depressed.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 09:59)

CLIENT: The lightning was, like, very especially bright. Like, I worked in a mall, so I'm not, like, looking for shiny floors I'm looking for, like there's something that was just very economically depressed. But both her and her partner Allen (sp?) were he does it more than her. Like, more or less kind of resent the townies. I don't know why they're living there if they resent the townies.

But he had, like, openly said things like, you know, they don't really they pay their employees under the table. That, you know, cash sales do not because part of their rent on the whole place was based upon revenue as well.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: So if it's credit card sales, then they would count it, but otherwise they didn't.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: If they're being he's being that casual talking about it, plus this and his elitist bastard attitude with us is just, like and you don't know much about things about the world. Like, I know more about this area than you do or I do this. You know what I mean? Like, and he's very resentful about, like every moment you speak to him, and I thought that was just me, but when we dropped Alice (sp?) off, spoke to her partner for, like, a couple of minutes. And he's like, "There's something not right."

THERAPIST: (inaudible 11:27)

CLIENT: Yeah. I was just trying to be supportive, but yet, like, all I was doing is things like and this is really important to me because I don't want her to be with this person because I think this really I mean, we I was okay. I wasn't thrilled that she got divorced last time. I understand why. But this person just reeks of, like, something really bad coming down the pipe (ph), you know?

Everything's a scam. They always have three or four businesses going, that kind of stuff. Yeah, so there's something just not right. So I basically told her, like, are you getting pressure from your family? Blah blah blah, you know. I'm not really saying I don't want you to get married. I feel like I shouldn't because it's none of she's a big girl, make her decisions, but I always wanted, like, I want to make sure this is really you.

So (sighs) I could be, in a couple of weeks, going up for a wedding. So we'll see. I'm surprised that she's going to want to do it. I really am. She sounded unsure. Because we discussed this before, and we discussed like, I had made the joke about the, "Well, why you ever get married again? You already have plenty of china." Like, it's not that I believe that the institution is bad in any way. In fact, I'm very positive towards it, but, you know, she's lived a very different life. And I don't necessarily think she doesn't not that you have to have (inaudible 12:58) to do this. I just think that the flexibility would be a lot better for her. And she's [with someone] (ph) scamming. So it's also very good for me to get in touch with Jerry, because Jerry can convince her of this stuff too.

Like I said, just various different drama things. I have been getting e-mails and I talked to my friend, who lost his wife, actually. And that's where this whole came in of me reaching out to everybody. Yeah. He works for the Navy, and he flew planes and stuff like that. He's not called that in the military. He actually has a different call sign. He would never do that. But (inaudible 13:40).

Like, at first, like, I got e-mails, like, a couple of e-mails in a row within a couple of hours of each other, saying the exact same thing. And I was like, "Okay. Well, maybe what happened is he meant to send it from his phone and he forgot that he was (inaudible 13:54) bothered to send it." Like, "I'm really worried about you guys up there. How're you doing?" and forget that he sent it, and then went and sat down at the computer and typed it out. It could be that.

And then I'm like, "Wait a second." I'm getting way too much contact. Not that there's a problem I don't mind it, but I'm really worried. So I called and talked to him, this is actually I need to get down, possibly not in the immediate future but maybe in a week or two. I am really, really worried about it.

THERAPIST: He really didn't sound good?

CLIENT: No. He's got a very long commute back and forth, and he has a lot of time alone with his thoughts. I'm just I do not have a strong enough confidence in I don't know. It's hard to explain. I need to see him to see what's going on because he described something about the fact that, like, he based upon people around him he didn't say who. I got the feeling maybe it might be our friends, but he doesn't want to blame anybody. That he should be further along in the grieving process than he is. [00:14:59]

And I would be I mean, I can actually see that, if he were not functional. Like, if he hadn't left the house yet or something like that. You know what I mean? So, I mean, he's fine. Like, not fine like that, but he's able to get in the car and drive two hours each way.

And I'm just the fact that he seems to feel like there is a timeline for his grief, really, really disturbs me. And I don't and I told him, I said, "You know what man, I've known you almost 20 years now. Nothing's ever been by the book for you. So if, like, someone's telling you this or a book's telling you this or whatever, don't believe it because you're extraordinary and I don't think that you should hold yourself to any guideline you hear." [00:15:57]

THERAPIST: There's a book I hear you're supposed to read after you've lost your...

CLIENT: Spouse. Young. (Laughter) And I don't know if I just feel like I need to know what's going on. I've been really worried -

THERAPIST: I have the name of a really good shrink there. I happen to know one. I have a colleague who's down there who (inaudible 16:14).

CLIENT: Before I go, I will probably get some resources because I would like to.

THERAPIST: He's driving through the interstate?

CLIENT: Oh, I know where that is. That actually would be halfway. He would (ph) even do it on his commute.

THERAPIST: Yeah, good.

CLIENT: So yeah. But I really want to I'm not sure if it's because he doesn't want to he's now pretty high up for our age. Like, really, really high up. He's highly decorated, by the way. I say this not because of any other reason other than the fact that he's, like, the most gentle person in the world. So to have that much military honors is kind of weird. It just shows that he's a different guy.

But I think that he may not want to, because of his rank, go through the do through some of the process they have for grief and related things. Everybody knows everybody where he works. So although there's supposed to be confidentiality, who knows what happens.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 17:20)

CLIENT: In the military court, it's guilty until proven innocent. God only knows what kind of confidentially or whatever happens, you know. On top of it, outranking your shrink would probably be weird to him. Yeah. But I just need to go down there and see what's going on.

The other thing is that I really need to, if it is somebody that's a friend of mine, I really, really need to talk to them about the fact that for all of us, all of our references for, like, getting over certain events, are things like breaking up, being divorced, that kind of stuff. That's really different than, like, your spouse is dead. Like, even if you want to divorce somebody, in your head, you can always ever see them again. And so...

THERAPIST: Yeah. It's a very different thing.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so, I just it concerns me. And just talking to him, I'm just -

THERAPIST: And that it was suicide is complicated.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 18:20)

CLIENT: Yeah. And I just feel like I don't know. I feel like he's isolated. He was super excited about us possibly coming down. Super excited that Alice's (sp?) doing some recruiting stuff on the side for (inaudible 18:37). He seems way more excited about people being around than I would expect. So, I think I definitely need to make the effort to go down and see him. I have a lot of fraternity brothers down there., so it's not like staying somewhere or, like, logistics (ph). That's not really an issue. It's just getting down there, which I'm pretty sure the train now goes through on Acela, which isn't bad.

THERAPIST: But especially with him (inaudible 19:12) a hard time, but I think it feels good to be able to do something and be there for them.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, he's always been a very bright light in my life, a very cheerful person, so I really need to pay that back, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I feel like I need to do something. And also, just me not knowing is worse than whatever I am imagining. It can't be as bad as that, I hope. It also gives me an excuse, like I said, to get in touch with some of the people I saw before and say, "Hey, I need to put this on your radar, and blah blah blah." And so, you know, it helps me (inaudible 20:02) promises. But as much as I'm saying that like it's exhausting, it's actually probably one of the better I mean, it's awful this stuff is all going, but it's better that I'm getting involved, you know.

THERAPIST: Absolutely, yeah. (pause) Much better to be (inaudible 20:22) with your friends.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I miss them a lot. Everyone's grown apart. I guess they all have different priorities now. But it's been hard for me to close to anybody up here as much, you know. I just feel like, for the most part, I don't know if it's me willing to go arm's length or I mean, I think part of it's me, part of it's this, part of it's that, you know.

THERAPIST: Well, you've felt pretty lousy most of the time you've been up here.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I haven't felt like myself.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 21:07) very stressful.

CLIENT: Even today, I'm back to grumpy old me, but, like, I had been feeling a lot more like myself lately too.

THERAPIST: That's good.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like, I made it to IKEA, yeah. I almost had the energy to put stuff together when we got home. But, like, you know, it's definitely been better. It's just -

THERAPIST: A big deal.

CLIENT: It's a big deal. It's growing. We'll see. (Pause) It's (pause) it's hard for me because I have different capabilities, you know. Like, I don't work that much, so I shouldn't be too busy to spend time with people, but I do have a I mean -

THERAPIST: Well (inaudible 22:17)

CLIENT: [I get a lot of sleep to schedule in] (ph), you know.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 22:23) stop.

CLIENT: Yeah, no problem. I will be back.

THERAPIST: And I will see you then.

CLIENT: Thanks for leaving (ph) the door open.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: (Sighs)

THERAPIST: [Oh, I think you dropped this] (ph).

CLIENT: Oh, yeah, my lipstick (ph). Thanks.

THERAPISTS: Sure.

CLIENT: (inaudible 22:57)

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