TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: So, oh Gosh. It looks like [someone caught] (ph) the medications so it's getting calmed down.
THERAPIST: Oh good.
CLIENT: So I am I really, really don't like things related to my stomach. Like there's a lot of things that like I can tolerate.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Like in terms of pain and discomfort. This is one of them that I just, I'm not good at dealing with. So, but, you know? (inaudible at 00:00:39) You know. I am frustrated because I a couple of doctors don't like to give me as much anti-nausea pills because they keep trying to tell me, "Well, it's a sign of something." You know? "We need to know about this."
And I'm like, "Great. Great." But like if I'm throwing up like in a trash can in Central Square, chances are that's really just, you know -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So diagnostic.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But it's, things are getting better. We'll see. I understand not, like again like with pain to, they don't like to completely ever totally ever medicate pain away because it's supposed to be, you know I get it. It's just that I'm cranky about the whole thing.
THERAPIST: Sure. You're in pain and nauseous and throwing up.
CLIENT: Yeah. But I'm making it eventually. It's just stressful at work, stressful at life. [00:01:41]
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: My health has been doing weird things again. So my immune system started attacking other parts of my body again, so that's why they're changing my medicines, and you know.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: I'm kind of becoming sort of depressed about the fact that my own body has a suicide wish sort of. You know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Like it's not my head, it's my body at this point.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: That's really like very, at some level, once you get this many things where your own body is rejecting itself, especially because, you know, they've done MRIs on my replacements.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: Nothing. Nothing at all. Like normal people when they get joint replacements, like people who don't have autoimmune disorders -
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: They wear out within fifteen, twenty years tops -
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: because of the fact that like your own body starts to slightly tear it apart.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: One that is ten years old looks like it was put in last year. I mean, it's completely left it alone. [00:02:46]
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: So it's almost like I have this self-loathing for myself, but on a cellular level. And it's really disturbing and morbid on some level.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: And so that really makes me feel, especially when, you know, for some reason you can't sleep, it's in the middle of the night, stuff's going wrong and this and that, it just doesn't do too well for your mental state for that.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: And, I don't know. It's (pause) having, at this point, like all kinds of weird factoid things because next month my spouse and I will be married for fifteen years, is sort of like -
THERAPIST: Wow. [00:03:52]
CLIENT: Yeah, I know. (laughs) Little things have been sort of dawning on me. Like, for example, Mike was mentioning just in passing to his Dad that, you know, it'll be twelve years. And he said something like, "It's going to blah blah blah years for him and his third wife." I think it's twenty four, something like that.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: It can't be. Twenty four, something like that. Like, you know, on Friday. And I said, "Wait a second. You mean they had been married less time than we had when " Like they had been married less than we currently have when we got married. So that makes them married eleven, fourteen years. Something like less, you know what I mean?
Like those weird numbers. Like they had only been married They've been married less that fifteen years when we got married.
THERAPIST: When you got married. Yeah. Right. [00:04:52]
CLIENT: That kind of stuff. You know?
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Those kind of like weird thoughts about that kind of stuff.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. You guys have been together longer than they had been.
CLIENT: Yes. At the time of, obviously.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: You know, the one I regularly mention is the fact that, you know, I have consistently lived longer with my spouse than my mother-in-law has with her son. You know, because we've been together like twenty years and she raised him to eighteen.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So, like -
THERAPIST: Right, you've lived with him longer.
CLIENT: Yeah. Well not just lived with him, but maybe I dated him. I don't know if I have been living with him twenty years.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But, you know. Those kind of like little factoid things. You know? It's like I think I really know this person better than you guys do. You know, kind of thing.
THERAPIST: Mm hm. [00:05:44]
CLIENT: But we are going to My Mom and I have been sort of planning this kind of thing. We're going to be doing a basically, something we're sending out to people who helped us out with our wedding, a quick [like things printed] (ph) talking about how fifteen years ago you helped us and we still thank you guys for that day, blah blah blah, kind of thing.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Which will be nice. I think Mom just wants to go to stationery stores.
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: Like to get things printed. You know? I mean it's not like she's craving for a wedding or anything like that.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But I think she does, she just wants something fun to do like we are going to look through invitation books, that kind of thing, to get something printed up to send out. So I'm going to let her run with it. Because it's not that I dislike doing it, I think that she's got a better eye for it than I do and I think it's very sweet. [00:06:50]
I have some slight misgivings in that there's a couple of people in our lives that we really couldn't send to. One, because we don't have addresses to a couple of people.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And a couple of people we don't speak to, like his sister, anymore. You know? That kind of stuff.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But I guess we'll figure it out.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I think it is a nice touch.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Just saying, "Hey, you know, it's been fifteen years since you stood up for us. Thank you for standing up for us all this time."
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Or something like that. You know?
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: I really, really want to do something for our anniversary but it's like This has been a really, really financially brittle month because I've had some extremely expensive dental (inaudible at 00:07:40) stuff. So it's like right now we are 4700 dollars in the hole of things that are due more than we have. So if I can figure out where that's going to come from.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Like it will probably will be split in finance over the next few months. But it's like we're always already in debt.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But this is above and beyond that. It's just, you know, it's hard.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And that's not the end of it. That's just part of it.
THERAPIST: Part of the dental work?
CLIENT: Part of the dental work. There have been a couple of other just things that have popped up too -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: that have been, you know, things we've had to do. So we've looked into trying to do something inexpensive locally, and it's not really possible.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I just feel like we ought to just wait and see if maybe later in the year we can try and do something.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: It is literally cheaper to stay at The Ritz in Paris right now than it is to rent some little shack out at the beach. [00:08:50]
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: Like per night. I can get a now obviously there's airfare played in but I can stay, you know, at one of the most famous Ritz Hotels in the world for like $190 a night. It's a lot more than $190 a night to stay out in Cape Cod.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Which blows my mind. So it's like there is no cheap thing. Plus, quite frankly, if it turns out badly, I just Not that I think things have to be really super nice or anything like that, but I can just totally just see like if we spent money we couldn't afford and we end up in somebody's rental that has mildew or something like that, how this whole thing could go south really fast.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So we have to figure things out and see what we can do. I don't think that Like I said, it may have to be later this year we do something, but just we can't do it right now. [00:09:50]
THERAPIST: Hm. [Hey you probably won't,] (ph) but for what it's worth, I wonder if like another area...
CLIENT: We've looked into that a little bit. It's still like even at that point we really can't afford to spend very much money.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Plus we don't actually have a car. So that becomes, yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah, it's hard to get there without a car.
CLIENT: Yeah, so at this point we're just like And I do, I mean I may actually ask for those recommendations later. Right now we're just like on a lark looking at like airbnb, which is usually cheap. It's people's spare rooms -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: that they lent out.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: And that's even expensive.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: So at this point I just feel like I just can't justify doing that -
THERAPIST: With the debt.
CLIENT: Yeah. You know I can't not Yeah. (laughs) Not that there isn't always debt, but this is like a lot more immediate. This is an AmEx, you know, going to have to figure out like how to figure this out. And I may get some help, but you know how it is kind of what it is. You know? [00:10:59]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And then, you know I've sort of got this feeling like, I'm really trying not to. You know? My spouse is insisting that he's been sober all this time, which is wonderful, I'm thrilled.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: There are some things that seem a little, like he seems better about lots of stuff. Sometimes he only seems, the beaver (ph) seems kind of still there in terms of being kind of like totally self-centered. Not as bad as when he's really acting out. But I guess in my heart I was really hoping that he would completely turnaround and it would be different. It's not.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But it's not like I'm worried about him getting hit by cars anymore. So that's good, that's at least something.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: The other day something came up and I said that I was really concerned about him acting out about this. It was something really little. And he's like, "Well, that didn't even dawn on me." But like I don't really like And he wasn't accusing me like as in, "I wouldn't even think about that." [00:11:59]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: This is like that concept. (ph)
THERAPIST: Right, just to let you know where I'm at and I didn't even have the thought.
CLIENT: Yeah. And I was like, "Well, I remember the time that you slipped on the ice and went home like you're so annoyed with Not that you got hurt but that you're so annoyed that you got muddy that you went home and act out."
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Like little things would totally, totally do that. So like he totally saw where I was coming from too in terms of being afraid of, you know, the little stuff more than the big stuff. I do feel like though a lot he's still quite, quite sensitive to a lot.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And so I have to be sort of really candid with what I say, and I'm not very good at that. Like, you know, that he's supposed to have another meeting with his boss in September to reevaluate like how he's doing, and this and that. You know? In terms of, his post doc has only reviewed for six months instead of a year. [00:13:00]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Now that panics me.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Yeah. And I -
THERAPIST: Six months as a -
CLIENT: Well it's going to be in September it's when they're going to go relook at it again.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: So that's kind of like, to me, makes me very nervous. So, I don't know. So I made some sort of comment saying, "Hey, you know, I'm not sure if I feel comfortable doing something since I'm not even sure if you'll be employed at that point." And then he's like, "Whoa. Can I just take a break for just a second. I just need to get past that."
Which was actually nice as opposed to being really, really upset. But still I don't think he ever put that together.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: You know, I'm not certain if we can go to Miami because I'm not certain that you will be employed in -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: you know, September or August or I guess, no October is when this thing is. Which is kind of [00:14:00]
THERAPIST: Wait a minute. The time doesn't quite add up there. Like his boss is going to talk to him right around the time that he would be I mean it seems, doesn't it?
CLIENT: They want to reevaluate. He wants basically I'm sure that they would like have some time They wouldn't immediately -
THERAPIST: [But what if they] (ph) tomorrow, you know, "Put your stuff out you're going tomorrow."
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: [They're going to say,] (ph) "Yeah okay we're going to review you for six more months or even three more months."
CLIENT: Basically he more or less said that he isn't certain whether or not he had [the drive] (ph) or whether it seemed more technician-like than being able to do principal investigation type things.
THERAPIST: Right. Yeah.
CLIENT: And he said, "But I really think that this is," whatever, "And we need to sit down and talk about this very seriously in six months."
THERAPIST: Right to sort of give him the chance to get some stuff done.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Right. Okay.
CLIENT: And I'm trying really hard not to be on his case all the time.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Part of it is I'm forgetful. I forgot that I say things. [00:15:00]
THERAPIST: And there's one other thing there which is that really quite strikingly it didn't occur to him that that could mean he would be unemployed pretty shortly thereafter.
CLIENT: Yeah. And I may be exaggerating in thinking this?
THERAPIST: It doesn't sound off the wall. Well, I mean I hope you're completely exaggerating that, but -
CLIENT: I'm not exaggerating. I hope I'm misinformed as to what that could be. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Sure. Of course.
CLIENT: But, I mean, there are four major people in this town in his field sort of who run massive labs.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And the stories I hear coming out of other people's labs. [00:16:02]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And I hear stories about them like giving two post docs to the same research thing.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And then whoever gets there first gets it published.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I hear like, I mean there's all kinds of various different stories that I hear. And these don't sound like they're made up. They sound like they're real, real things.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So, you know, although they're not having hard times, but just today it got announced that his institute got another 250 million dollars from their founder.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: [A hundred at least the ] (ph) You know, he needs to really, you know, step it up. He's not very good at like Well, I don't necessarily know, I mean, if corporate would be any good for him. Because he's not real good going to work.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: You know? I mean I guess a lot of it's, oh, he's at home writing his recording of invention (ph) or whatever. But, I don't know. [00:17:08]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: So I don't think he realizes like his personal computer is a computer they gave him. He won't have a computer when he gets fired.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: His, you know, this and that. Like we have no car, we have no way to pay our leases. Like, yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah, you guys are down 4,700 bucks and he's working.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah. I'm sure (cross talking at 00:17:34)
CLIENT: And, you know, like to me, I was sick on Sunday and I did not want to call up on Sunday. Even though it's for four hours because to me, I was like, "I have no idea how I'm going to make up that money." I'm going to be able to, I'm pretty sure. But, you know, I know it's a strain on us but I have to work Sundays because Sundays I get time and a half.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: So that's like the amount of time I spend I get a whole lot more to my paycheck.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.
CLIENT: But like it's I don't know what to say. It's just really frustrating. And I do know that a lot of people in his field do have time, or they spend less time because they've got like paid, all experiments are, you know, done at this point. But next thing I have to be there for twelve hours straight.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: I can't start it because it has to You know, or this happens. In this field it happens. There are these weird hours. Short long, short long kind of things. Or, you know, "I haven't made it in the lab in three weeks because I've been busy writing this grant proposal." It's easier to do it at home than to be bothered at the lab. [00:18:38]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But I think that he's been taking advantage of this stuff way too long.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I think he's kind of getting it now sort of, now that he's sobering up. Like truly sobering up. But, I don't know. Like today he just sent me a bunch of text messages. This is their anniversary, so Kenny (ph) has to be done at four thirty. And he's like, "Well, you know, I'll just take the 3:15 and we'll meet up."
And I said, "Why don't you stick around until 3:45?" And he's like, "Well, every time I turn around people keep putting champagne in my glass, so I don't really think I can get anything done." And I understand that that's probably true because today is a big day for them.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But like, I don't know, I just feel like, stick around for a little bit.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know? But (sigh) slowly but surely, I guess, I mean I think he's starting to wake up. I think. I think he's starting to realize that part of the reason why he's able to stay sober is that he's not around his mother. [00:19:43]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Which is really funny because she didn't have much to do with us to begin with, but once he really doesn't have anything Like he doesn't have to overanalyze the few things that she does.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I think it really is helping.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: But, you know, (pause) I hope. I really hope. I feel bad because like at this point right now it's been so long communicating effectively, that now when things go wrong I'm like, I'm just sick of communicating. Because I've been communicating effectively for a long time now and I'm bitter.
Does that sound stupid? Because I spent years specifically doing this. And now, especially when I'm having a really hard time but something's going on. And it's like, you know, I don't have the energy to talk about it. And it wasn't ever reinforced to resolve issues sometimes. Like, hey, talking about it was never anything that came out of it. So, you know? [00:20:50]
And there were some things that we were supposed to talk about later. Though God only knows that I probably never will because they're uncomfortable and (pause) I don't know. I'm sick of being the one holding things up.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, you are holding a lot of things up.
CLIENT: Though I can see myself, as he's getting better at it, getting bitter and going the whole thing of, "Oh, yeah, well I did this for fifteen years. Like you've been doing it for fifteen days," like, you know, talking properly or whatever.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I don't know. In general, there are certain things that I'm just not especially comfortable talking about. And it makes it even harder. You know? Like we have this You know, I'm not purely trying to grill my spouse about certain things, but there are certain things that I just, you know, I just want to know minimal amounts of information. [00:22:10]
It's not that I want to stick my head in the sand, I just don't want to obsess over it. Especially with addiction. When I was going to meetings, women obsessed over the things that their husbands did. They really obsessed over them. They went through their stuff and this and that. And it's like, honestly, I'm a binary girl. I like want to know, sober, not sober. You know?
THERAPIST: What sort of things are you supposed to talk about that you don't want to talk about?
CLIENT: Oh gosh. Okay. I am so deeply embarrassed to talk about this. Also I'm afraid of being judged.
THERAPIST: Uh huh. (pause)
CLIENT: I (laughs) This is so embarrassing. (laughs) I (pause) Okay. How do I explain this first. (pause) One of the things that is heavily reinforced in my social group in general, in terms of when people ask about like, ["Oh, how could you have stayed married this whole time? This relationship's so strong,"] (ph) is a Fred Savage-like phrase, "It's good giving game." [00:23:40]
Being good in bed, not being selfish, and being up for just about anything within reason. I don't really heed this most of the time, but I believe in it. You know?
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I've had like a mostly sexless marriage. So it's really not like a particularly applicable thing. But I do actually believe that it's a good idea.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: There was something that he wanted me to do and I was injured by it pretty badly. I was cut pretty bad.
THERAPIST: Cut?
CLIENT: Yeah. Okay. (sigh) Oh my God. I can't even believe I'm humiliated, not just about talking about this, I'm humiliating that I even let this ever happen to me. Because I'm just not that kind of person, but I wanted to do something nice for him. [00:24:37]
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: He apparently was curious or has an interest or something like that (sigh) about I can't even talk about this on a clinical level because there's no even clinical words for this. Using an object that is not necessarily meant for sex in a sexual fashion.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Particularly he was interested in a bottle.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: The thing at hand was a beer bottle. It was corked so no worry about vacuum. But it had a very, very minor amount of glass cut in it, so I was cut vaginally.
THERAPIST: Hm. [Oh, I'm so sorry.] (ph)
CLIENT: And discovered only after sex. And this is so hard to talk about. This is not I don't normally do risky things. I really, I just want you to know, I just don't do risky things like this. I can't even believe I did this. I just did it because I loved him and I thought, "Okay, I'm going to be game." [00:25:38]
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: It didn't seem like that It did not feel good. But the whole vacuum issue. And I'm so, like the fact that, like after sex, which wasn't especially like anything I really wanted to do but I decided to along with it. I didn't feel bad about it. I didn't feel like, "Oh my God, I'm rotten, spoiled, dirty," anything like that at that point.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I certainly did afterwards when like there's blood all over the sheets.
THERAPIST: Oh gosh.
CLIENT: And like, you know, minor skin, I don't know if infection, irritation, something happened. I did not want to go to get treated for this. And so, yes.
THERAPIST: Were you able to get the piece of glass out.
CLIENT: Oh yeah. We did get that out. A very, very small amount. It did cut even my fingertips like a little bit. It was so small it was almost impossible to notice.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Except for the fact that while I'm trying to get it out, I didn't even notice it was there until I was bleeding. [00:26:35]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But I ended up cutting my fingertips because it's so small and thin -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: trying to get it out. And it was just bad news.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Bad news. Probably going to be terribly afraid for a very long time. Don't really This is why I am such a non-kinky human being is because this kind of crap can happen. I think through bad things happening. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I used to make jokes about Like when people made jokes about something, going, "That looked like a really good way to get hepatitis," kind of like joke.
THERAPIST: Yeah, right.
CLIENT: You know? Or something like that. I just did it because I loved him. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I got hurt. And it was really obvious. Not just like in (sound of text message). I don't even know how to begin having this conversation without it sounding really terrible. So, yes, it's probably something that at some point we're supposed to sit down and talk about. Which we said at some point, I was telling him, "It's like, you know what? Obviously we need to handle the actual incident at large. But the feelings around this whole thing, we need to talk about later." [00:27:51]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And then, yeah.
THERAPIST: Well it seems like mostly what you're feeling in the moment is a lot of embarrassment and shame.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But are you sort of clear to the things you feel about it that you want to let him know about?
CLIENT: Maybe. I don't know. I am clear on how I feel about it. I don't especially It's not something I was remotely interested in. It's not something that I was interested in. And even afterwards, it's not something that was pleasurable. It was not something that was in my best Like if I had even more than a couple of minutes of judgment, would not have gone along with. I just feel freaking awful about it. (sound of text message) Really awful about the whole thing.
THERAPIST: You feel like you were an idiot?
CLIENT: Yeah!
THERAPIST: And that you totally should have predicted that could happen.
CLIENT: Yeah! I mean, I should have! [00:29:03]
THERAPIST: And said, "No way."
CLIENT: Absolutely!
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: Especially because of the fact that I had the thought of thinking, "Okay, so this should be corked." But the fact that I even had that thought of, you know, that Like the fact that I had If I had no thoughts at all about that, I think I would have been more accepting of it. The fact that I was just It wasn't like mindlessly trying to make him happy as much as (pause) Well maybe it is. I don't know. It is two separate issues. I am both emotionally and physically wounded.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
*; You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Sure.
CLIENT: And part of it's also just being really upset with myself because I'm not a risk taking person. [00:30:02]
THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)
CLIENT: And I'm just (pause) (sigh) I mean I couldn't have predicted the actual things, but it's really, it's so mutli-faceted in terms of the whole incident that I don't even necessarily feel like I could discuss it in a way that wouldn't cloud the actual issue. Like by just being all these little pieces of it. Of like, "Yes, you know, I am really not pleased about this." And, "Yes, you know, all the other things related to this. And there still are possibly some ramifications to this. And, you know -
THERAPIST: Well what do you have in mind?
CLIENT: I don't have anything in mind. That's the thing is I just want to make the whole thing go away. [00:31:05]
THERAPIST: Ah. Okay.
CLIENT: And I'm not normally a "stick my head in the sand" and pretend like things didn't happen. But this is something I really, really want to pretend never happened. The problem is that occasionally things start popping back up that make me remember it. As opposed to like forget it.
THERAPIST: How long ago was it?
CLIENT: Last week. (pause) So, yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: How affected do you think you've been by it? I mean is it on your mind a lot? Has there generally been a change in your feelings about sex?
CLIENT: Yeah, especially. Yeah, a little bit. But, of course, this could fade. It's very new.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: It was complicated by the fact that I started getting autoimmune bladder issues at the same time, but I didn't realize that that's what it was. [00:32:18]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Until immediately after. So I'm like, "Great, great. Next day." You know, [I'm already like cursing about how it hurts to go to the bathroom] (ph) so bad I can't walk to the bathroom, kind of thing. Like that kind of thing. I didn't have this kind of this bad in ten years.
THERAPIST: And that was from the bladder issues or that was from this incident?
CLIENT: Well I figured since I used to get lots and lots of infections -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: that it could have been transmitted from that. And I am very particular about hygiene because from a very early age I used to be able to get infections really easily.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And so it was beaten into me, and it's one hundred percent true, that if you are prone to certain things you have to be very careful about not getting infections.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And it's just I thought I was getting an infection again. It was actually something much more devastating and I'm more emotionally screwed up than that. And finally I should have a cat Last time I was diagnosed with this, they didn't have a word for this thing. Now they actually, it's Lupus something blah, blah, blah. [00:33:33]
They used to just call it interstitial something or another. They didn't know why people had inflammation in their bladder that looked like a bladder infection but there's no infection.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: It comes from an initial infection but your body still acts like there is one. Cystitis. That's right. They used to just call it interstitial cystitis, now it's Lupus cystitis. But I haven't had problems with that in ten years.
THERAPIST: I see. I wonder if there is some way that -
CLIENT: I am in the back of my head thinking that, you know, because any foreign body can kick the immune system off into doing something weird. And so I'm thinking to myself, "Great. Now I've told my immune system to do this." You know?
THERAPIST: I wonder if there's something that feels similar about the autoimmune stuff and the sexual thing that happened in that, I mean, you're describing this kind of uncanny way that the autoimmune stuff feels self-destructive. And I think the most frustrating thing about the sexual thing is that you, in a way, felt self-destructive. [00:34:54]
CLIENT: I did.
THERAPIST: In that you feel you really weren't looking out for yourself.
CLIENT: It is.
THERAPIST: And you should have been more careful.
CLIENT: I wanted to be more open and be more You know what I mean? Like I was trying to, in my social group what was considered to be the right thing in terms of being normal, healthy behavior in a relationship. And what actually did is I came away feeling completely totally destructive. You know?
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: And it's -
THERAPIST: I see. It was really (inaudible at 00:35:30)
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: You were trying to be sort of open, healthy, experimental and you wound up feeling destructive and I think maybe perverse.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I think you felt that way.
CLIENT: I don't think it's as much as that, but yeah.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: It's more But, yes, a little bit. I'll be honest.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But I think it's a lot of things. You know?
THERAPIST: Sure, like that was something else that got turned upside down.
CLIENT: Yeah. Hm. And so it's the good intentions, terrible result. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Feeling like being punished for trying to do the right thing. Well, maybe not the right thing but the right intentions.
THERAPIST: Well, I think it did feel like the right thing.
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: In the context of the marriage and your social group. [00:36:30]
CLIENT: Yeah. Like, you know what? I'm going to do this. It'll be okay. It's not like I I did not feel recoiled from the concept of it. I, you know (pause) You know, it is one of those things where it is important to me to have a healthy sexual relationship with my husband.
THERAPIST: Of course.
CLIENT: I really, really, really want that.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And so -
THERAPIST: I don't know, but in managing that, you know, part of the reason you might have wanted to try something where you want to please him is that this is a part of the relationship that you really haven't been happy with and you really wanted to kind of do your part to make it better. [00:37:35]
CLIENT: Yeah. Plus, quite frankly, he doesn't really say much about what he's interested in, therefore, encouraging, you know.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Right.
CLIENT: And so that's -
THERAPIST: [He encouraged you to do that.] (ph)
CLIENT: Yeah. Also, to be a good example. Being a good It's like there's a billion different reasons why.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know. But it's And somehow when this happened all those went away.
THERAPIST: In other words -
CLIENT: Pretty much. You mean like all my feelings about this?
THERAPIST: Yeah. It totally stopped being, oh, you're trying to do the right thing and it just went really badly in a way that you hadn't expected. And, you know, I wish you had. It's like, "This is horrible, I was self-destructive," da, da, da, da, da. You know?
CLIENT: Yeah. I feel terrible about it. I do not want, you know. (pause) And, yeah. I feel like it went completely in the other direction and now I'm much more fearful. [00:38:41]
THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)
CLIENT: And, you know, it's weird because I feel like because I never really did anything especially stupid in my twenties, that like maybe if I had done something stupid like this I would be like more accepting of myself doing something dumb now.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Like, "Okay, that's normal. That's fine."
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: You know? I know friends who have done completely ridiculous things that, you know, they've confided in me. Like, "Oh my God, I cannot believe I just did this. And boy I'm " You know, and at that point they just sort of became better people. And I think that maybe if it happened when I was younger maybe I would be less emotionally wounded by it. [00:39:41]
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: I don't know. Maybe.
THERAPIST: Like at this age you feel like you really should know better?
CLIENT: Yeah. Or at least if I knew better I would be able to shrug it off and go, "Okay. Dumb stuff like this happens. It's not a big deal." You know?
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:40:00) and, you know. (pause) Yeah. Pretty much. (pause)
THERAPIST: I guess I thought about another possible unconscious piece of this, which is I wonder if you're also really pissed at him.
(sound of text message)
CLIENT: Oh yeah. That's not subconscious.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.
THERAPIST: It's not so much It's much harder for you to be really angry at him then at yourself. And really angry at him for doing something to you or burdening you, than it is to feel like you should just be able to handle it better, or you should've been able to predict it. You know what I mean? [00:41:12]
Like, yeah, you feeling like you should have been in control and should have known better are more comfortable for you then like being pissed.
CLIENT: I am mostly pissed that he had an interest in something that could hurt me.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: It's sort of mellowed into sadness. I don't know. It's really complicated. But, yeah, at this point. But definitely I was upset. I was really pissed. That's just not (pause) I (pause) (sigh) [00:42:12]
It's got a lot of levels. It's the, "I'm better than that," like kind of thing. (clears throat) It's the also like, you know, just because you've seen it done potentially like on the Internet (sound of text message) doesn't mean it's really true. Like there's not a whole lot. I mean there's so much layers of this. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Pardon me for just a moment.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I've gotten like four of them, so I think I should -
THERAPIST: Yeah. You know we should actually probably stop, but go ahead. (pause)
CLIENT: Oh great. My aunt and my mother are fighting and they both texted me. My cousin's getting married.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: So.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It, yeah. [I mean they're fighting, but it's not really that bad] (ph), not like actual fighting. [00:43:15]
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: But, yes. What I'd like to do is, if possible -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I have an opportunity that I might need to see you late on Tuesday. So I don't have to, but I wanted to see if you had other schedule, other times that you should schedule as a possibility.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: That might Because if you don't have an availability, I won't do this thing.
THERAPIST: Okay. Is this an ongoing thing, or is this one time?
CLIENT: No this is just a one time work training. Basically, on Monday nights we usually train late at my job. But nobody wants to give up Memorial Day to train late.
THERAPIST: Let's see.
CLIENT: So they want to go into Tuesday.
THERAPIST: I have two times. One is I have a midday time on Tuesday. Is that any good for you?
CLIENT: No. I'm not going to get out until -
THERAPIST: How about 5:15 on Tuesday then?
CLIENT: Still, it's not going to happen.
THERAPIST: Okay. Um.
CLIENT: Is there any other day but Tuesday of next week? Because they're talking like me come in at 8:30 and leave at like 7:30. [00:44:15]
THERAPIST: Sure. Let me (pause) I don't have anything that I know of yet. But let me -
CLIENT: And if you have a cancellation later this week, maybe I'll do that instead.
THERAPIST: Oh okay.
CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Sure. Yeah.
CLIENT: So kind of let me know.
THERAPIST: Yeah. I will make a note in here to let you know and I'm happy to do that.
CLIENT: Because it also will I guess count. I just need to I skipped out on this particular type of training, this audio training before. And I'm trying to seem like I'm actually on board.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I have no interest in learning how to edit audio files, but -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: The fact that I'm looking. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I try to seem like I'm a team player by at least trying to.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So I don't want them to think I'm making excuses because I don't like the topic.
THERAPIST: Sure. No, I'm perfectly happy to do it. I'm happy to try to find something else. It's, you know, in the scheme of things it's likely I will have some kind of cancellation this week. [00:45:20]
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: It so happens that the two that I have are on Tuesday.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But, you know, I'll figure something out. Maybe I can switch somebody up into one of those.
CLIENT: Okay. Let me know.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: So I will see or hear from you soon then.
THERAPIST: Sounds good. (pause) Take care now.
CLIENT: Thanks.
END TRANSCRIPT
