TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: First about your insurance. I tried to call there yesterday. They didn't say (ph) anything (ph) about (ph) the time frame of having gotten (ph) back to them. It actually–the benefits (ph) of neglecting that sort of thing–may have been good in that it may delay the next time a review occurs. And we'll have to see.
They probably kept me on there like 20 minutes inquiring (ph) all sorts of questions about "why is she coming to see you?", "what's going on?", "what are her symptoms?", "what's your treatment plan?", and all that kind of stuff. I'm happy to put up with that sort of thing, once in a while, but I do have limits about how much I'm going to put up with them, so it's unclear how frequent and how onerous their oversight will be. I guess we'll have to wait and see. They'll probably contact both of us.
If you'd like to know more about it, I'd be happy to tell you more about what they wanted to know and what I said. It wasn't much that—it certainly wasn't anything that we haven't talked about. It was sort of from a different angle. But, if you do ever have questions about that, I'd be happy to tell you. [00:02:20]
I probably slightly emphasized some of the more difficult (inaudible phrase at 00:02:34) symptomatic (ph) aspects that we've talked about. That tends to work better for her (inaudible phrase at 00:02:39). I mean, I won't be dishonest with them, but...
So, that's about that. I just wanted to kind of update you. And I will also try and teach her (ph) not to shred (ph) anything before (sp?) about (inaudible phrase at 00:03:04). [00:03:06]
CLIENT: I'm just glad I hadn't gotten rid of it.
THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean, I could have called and eventually got to the right person, it just would have been 20 more minutes on the phone, but I do appreciate you sending that in (ph). Glad (inaudible at 00:03:23)
And that's all I got.
CLIENT: I don't know. I kind of feel like a wreck right now. And I don't know where to start. There's…(9 second pause) [00:03:55]
So the convention was this weekend, and definitely have been feeling "Con-crash" (ph). Cons every week, exciting and energizing for me and then you go back to work Monday and you're just "blah". I wasn't expecting to feel "Con-crash" this time because this convention is in a town I travel to, it's like right here, and it's not really my Con in that I don't think of it as a Con where I expect to have a good time. I really only went this year, because two friends of mine from Europe were in town for it and I wanted to see them.
THERAPIST: That's right you had mentioned (inaudible phrase at 00:04:38).
CLIENT: And I'm really glad I got to see them and we had a great time, but for years it has been like the bastion of stodgy, old, white men who just talk to talk timeline (ph) and if you're not interested in that—talk your talk, basically.
So, I wasn't expecting to have a good time, but apparently there was like a hostile takeover of the Board last year, and people I know and like were running the show, and there was a lot of programming where I was pretty much the target audience, or people like me. I don't mean me specifically. So, I had a much better time than I thought I would and so now "the crash" is hitting me harder because I wasn't prepared for it. So, there's that. [00:05:26]
And then, there's—I started writing again and, I don't know, I feel like it's a little bit superstitious to credit Ashley for that, but I did start writing again explicitly (ph) because of him. The first thing I wrote was a parody joke song that he had requested. But, I mean, nothing that I've written since then has been for him, or about him really. Yeah, that seems silly to credit him with (inaudible phrase at 00:06:07) sheer quantity of writing I've been doing, or it might just be down (ph) to the work we've been doing here, or, I mean, it doesn't really matter why.
I wrote an essay and posted on my blog and I got like 10 comments within four hours and it really struck a chord for a lot of people. And I wrote a poem that I sent to three Beta readers. Have you heard that term before? Do I need to define my terms? [00:06:33]
THERAPIST: I haven't the analogy (ph) of Beta software testers?
CLIENT: Yes. And they all liked it and they all had critiques to make and one of my readers did a fairly thorough one and I'm very grateful to her because it made it so much better. They all liked it, basically. You know, Stacey, who is an amazingly talented writer who I have a great deal of admiration for, her response was, "Wow! Fucking wow!"
THERAPIST: Wow!
CLIENT: Yeah. Once I incorporated all the edits and was happy with it, I posted that to my dream (ph) web (ph). Got no comments on it. Which was a little upsetting, so and if it —I don't know —something, some kind of emotion. I deleted all my online accounts and journals and things. Which would not be the arabacle (ph) that it sounds like because all these services have the undelete option within 30 days and they will save all your data and restore all your data. I don't know. [00:07:44]
THERAPIST: Your work with writers (ph)?
CLIENT: Yeah. And then there's stuff with Ashley. I had thought that we had firm plans to see each other the weekend of the seventh, and I guess there was a miscommunication there, but we ended up he ended up spending that whole weekend with one of his other partners and... The understanding I got was that she was going through some kind of personal crisis and needed him and you know, that's fine. These things happen. Whatever. And he also didn't think we had made firm plans for the seventh. And then we had plans for the fourteenth that he canceled. And, again, his cat was dying and it was in an emergency veterinary clinic overnight and that's stressful and terrible and these things happen. But, the cat has trach (ph) cancer and has six months to live and that's all sad and terrible, but the cat is stable now. So, I e-mailed him to say, "Can we reschedule?" and he was like, "My cat is dying. I will think about this later." And I was like, but if the cat is stable and has six months to live, are we just not going to see each other for six months? [00:09:03]
The thing is he needs lots (ph) of space in relationships. Far more than I need. In fact, the amount of space he needs might just cross over the threshold into cutting off the amount of contact that I need to be happy. If that makes any sense?
THERAPIST: Yeah, he needs more space than you can be happy with.
CLIENT: Right. It's just, when we're together, it's wonderful. He is smart and he is funny and we have amazing conversations and when we're physically in each other's presence, he's incredibly attentive and caring and gentle and wonderful, but when we're not, he never initiates online chats. He never calls. He's just I keep trying to tell myself, he's just an introvert and he's generally a receptive—When I start a conversation with him, then I end up worrying that he's just along for the ride because I keep swinging myself into his path and saying, "Look at me", and he's actually not that interested in me. And I don't know how to bring this up with him without sounding completely neurotic and I don't know if I'm just, if I'm actually being unreasonable or if I've just internalized a bunch of toxic messages from society about how women should be chill girlfriends and not have emotional needs because, you know, women aren't allowed to have needs. It's kind of hard to tell because my perspective is completely screwed up, but it's really—The amount of effort I've put in to not being too needy and not being too demanding and not being too much for him is getting to be unhealthy, I think. So, clearly the next time I see him, I need to bring this up and I don't know how and it's making me worried and anxious thinking about it and I would like to just get that conversation over with, but he's not willing to schedule a meeting until when I don't know. I have no idea when he'll be willing (ph) to even talk about scheduling. It's really frustrating. I'm crazy, maybe. And then, literally, I feel like I am going crazy because of this. [00:11:45]
(01:27 long pause)
THERAPIST: I think that's just…two thoughts. One is…him (inaudible at 00:13:27) makes me think of having something of a muse for you and you being fairly (ph) frustrated that that's not bringing him around.
CLIENT: Yeah, that's probably (inaudible at 00:13:55) I don't know how I feel about that. (seven second pause) I'm a little bit of attractive (ph) for (ph) him, like I'm just using him for his museness. (sp)
THERAPIST: Oh. That's (ph) what I had in mind. Umm, maybe my memory's a little mixed, but I had it like sort of a muse for you and inspiring (ph) some of the kinds of things you have created (ph) and just your mood (ph). Like, your creative mood, even if you're not writing things like intentionally carnated (ph) in him and that part of how that's supposed to work, although I don't know that this fits with the muse metaphor really, is that he's then supposed to pay attention to it and get excited about it and be drawn in and more attentive and seduced in a way and he hasn't (ph) been, but…And that I think things feel like they're going the other way a little bit. [00:15:37]
CLIENT: Yep.
THERAPIST: And then, I wondered too, if there is any degree of communication about some things somewhat parallel with me where I never call, I never e-mail, I rarely ask (ph).
CLIENT: (chuckle)
THERAPIST: Yet, you're doing (ph) all this stuff, and (inaudible at 00:16:28) with all this stuff, and you're here (inaudible phrase at 00:16:32). Maybe he'll seem (ph) drawn in, in ways that I ought to be (ph). [00:16:46]
CLIENT: No, I don't (ph) think (ph) that's (inaudible).
THERAPIST: No?
(01:03 pause) [00:17:48]
THERAPIST: I guess, regardless of, other than any truth (ph) to any of that, I think you're not wild about the idea that…In other words, whether I'm right or wrong, maybe I'm completely wrong on both counts.
CLIENT: (chuckle)
THERAPIST: You don't (inaudible phrase at 00:18:17)
CLIENT: No, I don't. (sigh and 11 second pause) Although, if you're right, it doesn't really matter whether I like it or not.
THERAPIST: Well, now wait a minute. I mean, it doesn't affect the truth about you.
CLIENT: Right. [00:18:44]
THERAPIST: But you know, I'm not (ph) going to say (ph) that it's quite a negation (ph) of your emotional life where (ph) in the statement (ph) that it doesn't matter.
CLIENT: But I mean, regardless of how I feel, I can't change reality. The universe doesn't care about my feelings. (15 second pause) [00:19:37]
THERAPIST: "So and so who I cared so much about is dead, and it doesn't really matter how I feel about her because they're dead and no matter what I feel it's not going to bring them back or change anything." [00:19:47]
CLIENT: So, your tone of voice indicates that you're being slightly teasing, but I actually agree with everything you say, like on my (cross-talk at 00:20:00)
THERAPIST: You're right about the teasing and maybe I shouldn't be, but you're obviously right about (cross-talk at 00:20:02). I'll at least own up to it.
CLIENT: (chuckles) Perhaps trying to point out the absurdity (ph) of my belief with an extreme example, except that I actually agree with the extreme example.
THERAPIST: I see (ph). Mourning is stupid?
CLIENT: Not stupid, but ultimately pointless. [00:20:30]
THERAPIST: Hmm...
(1:06 pause)
THERAPIST: How come? Like whether (inaudible phrase at 00:21:37)
CLIENT: I mean, you have to move on with your life. [00:21:43]
(1:36 pause)
THERAPIST: I think, in a way, you're kind of negating both of us there, because I think you feel so, sort of helpless and vulnerable in the space (ph) of the emotional reactions you do have to things (ph). Those are so humiliating and unacceptable that you are, sort of, disavowing (ph) how much they point to what matters to you and I think are also entirely sort of negating I don't know a way to say this that isn't going to sound a little bit lightly (ph) any possible point of therapy all together. [00:25:18]
CLIENT: (9 second pause) Can you elaborate on that?
THERAPIST: The latter (ph) part?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Well, the feelings— how you feel about something or emotional reactions are (ph) pointless, and to (ph) the therapy, no (ph)?
CLIENT: Well, maybe I've (ph) had the wrong idea of what therapy is for, but I've always thought that the point of therapy was to be able to not let my emotions get in the way of doing the things that need to be done. That's an awfully (inaudible phrase at 00:26:12) focused way of looking at it, but I mean—and I don't like that, but it is how I feel, if that makes sense?
(17 second pause)
I mean, for me, coming to therapy isn't in order…The goal for me isn't to feel better, the goal is to be able to function at work and honor my commitments at church and in community organizations and not end up spending all day Saturday in bed and skipping things I needed to do just because my feelings are too much for me. [00:26:57]
THERAPIST: Right. (15 second pause) I think, we both know that of course that has everything to do in practice with feeling better.
CLIENT: Yeah.
(48 second pause)
THERAPIST: I guess which is in part what makes me continue (ph) like a disavow is that it's sort of entirely emphasizing in one part and entirely excluding another of two things that clearly go hand in hand. And I think partly (ph) because the way you just formulated it, feels (ph) so much more acceptable and safe (ph)... [00:28:43]
(1:36 pause)
And I'm not sure, but it's possible that (inaudible phrase at 00:30:21) split there between you and me where, you know, you get to be the engineer (ph), I get to be the therapist. (inaudible/background noise at 00:30:35) efficiency and I'm the one who holds (ph) on to all that soft stuff about feelings (ph) and everything. [00:30:43]
(15 second pause)
CLIENT: And like there isn't a version of stereotypical gender roles there, too.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I can't not notice that.
THERAPIST: Sure. (7 second pause) Did you have another thought about that part of it? [00:31:12]
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: It just strikes (ph) you?
CLIENT: Yeah.
(1:05 pause)
THERAPIST: So we seem to have started in one place and got to another in that you began talking about a kind of crash, albeit unexpected from the Con, having actually felt more connected to people there and to more a part of what was going on and feeling upset about things with Ashley, and also enthused, I think, about what you've been writing and somehow(long pause)-it landed somewhere where only efficiency and productivity (ph) matters. [00:33:49]
CLIENT: (sigh) Yep. (13 second pause)
THERAPIST: And I think, my hunch, although I'm somewhat tentative about this, is that what changed our course was your feeling about my sort of statement or suspicion, that part of your creative and productive efforts (ph) those are in part to please or seduce people. I don't mean "seduce" like just a sexual way, but bring them around or get them to pay attention. Like it has to do with a way of bringing people close, and that was a disturbing possibility. Again, I want to be tentative about that as the…source of the change of direction. I am (inaudible) with (ph) that. [00:36:04]
(27 second pause)
I guess I think that may be disturbing (ph) because it turns the whole sort of productivity (ph) thing on its head.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Making it in the end much more about personal (ph).
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Than about some objective standard or the value, in and of itself, important (ph). Don't you think? (ph) [00:37:07]
CLIENT: Right.
(29 second pause)
THERAPIST: It's time.
END TRANSCRIPT
