TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: So it's very distressing to me because I just don't feel like... I feel so unlike myself...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And the things that I wouldn't react to normally I totally react to and that kind of stuff. So I was having a lot of problems earlier in the week. And I didn't actually put... the problem is I only put this together after the fact. At the time of, it's not like I feel that way, and that's why (inaudible at 0:00:31), wow, I realize that I'm also running a fever...

THERAPIST: I see, yeah.

CLIENT: Which means my immune system's (inaudible at 0:00:37), that kind of thing. But I had a really sort of screwed up week. One of the things that really bothered me was that I have all of a sudden gotten news that I am old from my doctor. I went in because I have to get birth control stuff renewed... [0:00:57]

THERAPIST: (Crosstalk) just a question (inaudible at 0:01:00). Do you want me to try to find a second appointment, would that be helpful (crosstalk)?

CLIENT: No, it's okay. It's fine.

THERAPIST: Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, I just... before we entirely left this...

CLIENT: No, that's okay. No, I [figured you were saying] (ph) you're out of town or something?

THERAPIST: The rest of this week.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I just meant in general.

CLIENT: Perhaps. We'll see.

THERAPIST: Okay, just keep me posted.

CLIENT: Yeah, so...

THERAPIST: And actually, I'll say, any time you want, it's not a bad time of year for that for me. I mean, I'll do the best I can whenever I can [depending on when] (ph) you want it...

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: But it's... August, September are usually a little easier for me to do.

CLIENT: Okay, that sounds good. But yeah, so I went to go to my doctor's. I'd sort of... due to the fact that I'm not really sexually active, sort of let my birth controls lapse for a bit. And so I had to go back to the doctor to do that. And he sort of sat me down and told me that I'm getting to old to be on hormonal birth control and that I sort of have to figure out what kind of more permanent types of options I want. [0:02:04] That really bothered me. Now, apparently it's true. I've done some secondary things and talked to other people, other women, and they're like, yeah, didn't you know that, your late 30s, you're not really supposed to be on hormonal birth control anymore? You're supposed to either figure something else out or get fixed or do an IUD or something like that. And so that was pretty darn eye-opening to me. I did not realize that I was completely... I mean, I knew that I... I knew that my chances of actually being able to have children were... children that are healthy, pretty darn low. I haven't been putting the actual earnest try to conceive thing because, well, it's a bad idea. But also just, like, it's a bad idea (chuckling) for lots of reasons. And [it's all about the heartache] (ph) and all that kind of stuff. [0:02:55] But it still doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to have that nail in your coffin...

THERAPIST: Absolutely.

CLIENT: That kind of thing. Even... he basically said, even if we were to try and have a baby right now, that I would be categorized as basically in terms of that... as being older and therefore have much more risks and they'd be handled completely differently.

THERAPIST: My recollection is that higher risk is anybody over 35 with...

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Sorry, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. And by higher risk I thought birth defects, things like that. Apparently it's also all kinds of things for the mother and just in general. There's much more preeclampsia, there's much more diabetes that get onset. That's fine. I mean, I kind of knew that wasn't that... the point, though, is that at no point was I ready to be told that I'm too old for birth control.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That to me just seemed like, oh my God. [0:03:56] I am totally going through a period of my life that I had no idea was even coming and just sort of threw me into that. (Pause) And that was pretty darn... still is pretty darn upsetting to me. I don't know... I mean, it doesn't... it makes sense, but it doesn't make sense. It's not as practical, I want to be more rational about it but can't because it's so upsetting. I mean, I just didn't realize it was that part of my life. [It's been a struggle] (ph) especially because so many other people in my life, I've been ignoring them. But in the back of my mind I guess I haven't, the whole, oh don't worry, you'll go into remission. And don't worry, things will get better. I didn't' really believe it, but yet at the same time it's like, wow, yeah, I really ran out of time. [0:04:55] And so that's pretty upsetting.

THERAPIST: I guess I'm... (Pause) It seems to me there's two sorts of things that could be upsetting about this, and I'm not sure if it's one or both of those?

CLIENT: Uh-huh.

THERAPIST: One of them being aging in general.

CLIENT: Which I have a big problem with.

THERAPIST: Okay. And the other one being, being able to biologically have kids.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Both of them.

THERAPIST: Both of them.

CLIENT: Also just not being prepared, never knowing that, on some level, that's really... that's the kind of thing that (pause) would happen, just like, this is what happens in your late 30s. [0:05:54] I guess I just wasn't prepared for that. I figured I had at least a couple of years until that. So... and that's just... (Pause) It's emotionally distressing because I feel like my life is just slipping away from me. I am just closing a lot of doors, and it's just really upsetting. (Pause) And so, between that and just everything else in life, I sort of really... hold on for a second. Are you awake? Okay. I wanted to make sure she's okay. [0:06:57] The... I mean, it's just very stressful for me. (Pause) So in general I've just found myself being just very quick to anger, quick to just lose it in so many situations, that I just... I don't like who I'm becoming. I really don't. So (pause) it's... (Exhaling) (Pause) [0:07:57] I don't like that fact that I am a person who used to have all the patience in the world, and I'm snapping. And I don't like the fact that I'm realizing how old I am. And that's really distressing. (Pause) So... but it's not like there's anything I can do about it. (Pause)

THERAPIST: Well, I think... (Pause) I think that's something that makes this very difficult to talk about, that there's nothing you can really do about it. [0:08:57] And it's really just about being upset...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Which I think makes you feel like you're being weak or irrational or something, I think.

CLIENT: Well, I mean, it is definitely something that is in my head. It is definitely something that, when I try to talk to people in my life about it-at least my mother-it's definitely reinforced, that kind of thing. [0:09:55] That went over really badly. I was trying to call my mom about this, and she just basically thought that it was... (Pause) Briefly, at least some of it was the fact that she was just, that's just what happens when you get old, older, which is great. I just feel like I just didn't... I missed out on my life, at least part of it. And then the other part of it is just, she feels as if I just need to get a tougher skin about that kind of thing, [that to get better] (ph), I need to get more accepting of what is and is not. And that's great and all. It's really wonderful to be told that, but (pause), I mean, it's just really hard because I just feel like I don't have anybody I can really talk to about this in the absence of the... or at least, I don't know, sort of sympathy, I don't know what. [0:10:59] But it's just... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Well, (inaudible at 0:11:08) you want some understanding. I don't mean in the sense of some revelation about it but just some acceptance of how upset you are about it, without an implication that you shouldn't be, you should be doing something different, whatever.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) I mean, it isn't as much an implication as much as you shouldn't be reacting to this so much, I guess is probably the... just accept it and move on kind of thing. (Pause) [0:12:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean, I think (inaudible at 0:12:06) it's hard, I think, for you to have the confidence that, when you're upset about something, there's a very good reason to be upset about it, inevitably.

CLIENT: I still don't think that I have a good reason to be upset about this. This is not new news apparently, that I can't have children. Yes, I kind of knew that, but yet at the same time it's kind of... and it's not that getting older is not new news, but getting it like this... (Pause) And of course my mom's like... basically she... the way she sees it is, she sees that I should at some point... I don't really understand exactly where she gets this idea from this. This is... she's not normally a person that jumps to immediate conclusions. [0:12:58] But she feels as if I should have told the doctor that basically what he more or less wanted... I had to look into was the equivalent of eugenics in terms of, well, you're not really going to be able to have children anyways, so why don't we just go get you fixed? You're genetic... you already have a lot of health problems and this and that, and it's going to be problematic. Let's just get you fixed, and immediately jumping to that. And I'm like, great, this is not the kind of conversation I want to have.

THERAPIST: Of course not.

CLIENT: She... basically she's looking at [this in the sense of] (ph), if you want to fight back against this, then fight back about... but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still getting older. (Pause)

THERAPIST: Well, you are, and you have missed out on a lot of things.

CLIENT: Some of it is due to health. A lot of it's just due to the hard work. [0:13:57] I mean, I spent so much of my time putting hard work in, that I feel like I never had the chance to do... I don't' know what specifically I was planning to do. But I feel like there's a lot of things out there that... things that people could put off until much later, until their 40s and 50s to do, that I probably can't do now because of my health at the very least, but also things like things you do when you're young, the silly things you do. And (pause) it's...

THERAPIST: To me, I guess I'm picking up things like financial security, increased sort of (pause) seniority of a certain kind at work...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. [0:14:56]

THERAPIST: More intimacy and sex in your marriage.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, sure, I mean, having kids is a huge one, maybe the biggest one.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean, the other ones are pretty big, too.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And then other things that you've spoken of being very important, like travel, seeing friends, feeling up to seeing friends.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And you've [lost out on] (ph) all of those...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Which (pause) at the time you got married and (pause) as a culmination of the time before that had every reason to expect you'd have, probably actually more so than most people around... [0:16:08]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Not most people in the world, but just most people around you, given how your life had gone to that point.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) And I feel like a lot of things I just put off doing because I figured there'd be time for it later. I mean, even the silly things like drunkenness-adventure-type stuff even, a lot of stuff like that I just put off because I figured I need to spend the time to do this now, because this is the time that I need to focus. And then there'll be time to do that later. I guess I...

THERAPIST: What you're saying is, you were a serious researching student.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I know I had a good time. I was always very practical about that kind of stuff. [0:16:56] And... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Well, I think you have to be like that times about five these days. it's not as obvious, I think, to most people around you, but in terms of just getting through... getting out of bed, being able to do what you need to get through the day, including getting to work and getting home, getting here, [getting the finances] (ph)...

CLIENT: Yeah. To give you an idea, tax-free's coming up, so I'm working all weekend. First of all, we rented a car because we just needed to make sure that that... but I need to make sure for tax-free... before I do this, I need to make sure I get at least a good ten hours' solid sleep beforehand, not ten hours in the twenty-four hours beforehand, ten hours before I get up. I need to make sure that I pack myself with ice for swelling of joints when I get home so I can make sure of this. I (inaudible at 0:17:47) take Vicodin for this. I don't believe in taking... I mean, I've talked to you ad nauseam about this. [0:17:56] But I do know that, if I don't do at least... and I usually take either a half or a quarter of the dose a normal person would take if they broke their leg or something like that, nothing big, but a normal dose. If I don't start that now, then the cascade of the pain will be so bad that there won't be enough I can take, which sounds weird, I know. But it's totally true, because...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And so... because... and this isn't just a Debra theory. I have pain doctors tell me that breakthrough pain theory is true (laughing). And it's like, doing that, all this other stuff, and... just so that I can be able to go to work during those periods of time. Most people are like, yeah, I'm a little tired. Probably I won't go out with friends that night because I've got to be up in the morning because it's kind of a crazy day.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: That's not like that for me. And I am... if I have to work on Sunday morning, I don't go out Saturday night. [0:18:59] Never did. I'm in bed nice and early.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And quite frankly, if I'd gone to work the day before, like Sunday, this Sunday, I come home from work, go to bed, and then I get back up again in the morning to wake up... there's this huge period of time.

THERAPIST: No, I'm sure... I know you don't want to, but...

CLIENT: I have to.

THERAPIST: You could qualify for disability if you wanted to.

CLIENT: Probably.

THERAPIST: My point isn't that you should, only that that seems to me an index of how much you have to be doing to manage work.

CLIENT: Yeah. But at the same time, if I didn't, I'd really hate myself.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and I understand. I'm not (crosstalk)...

CLIENT: No, I'm not saying that, but at the same time it's like, it's... I know it's exhausting, and it is a lot I have to do. The fact that I... when I'm done with it, and I realize, wow, I managed this, I figured this out, and I did it...

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah.

CLIENT: Because a lot of times I looked at things in my life and I'm like, this is going to be too hard. I'm just not going to do this. [0:19:56] But, when I've been able to figure out how to do it and I've made it past it-even if I'm in pain and even if I'm all eaten up-it's a lot to...

(Phone sound)

CLIENT: Let me... just a moment, I need to make sure this isn't anything important.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: [It's my parents] (ph). Never mind. But... so to me that's very important.

THERAPIST: Well, yeah. I imagine it's actually pretty much the same thing as when you were... at least in part, as when you were working in high school or college or graduate school, where part of the reason you were making the sacrifice of working really hard then was... not all of it, but part of it was because it was important to have the sense of accomplishment.

CLIENT: You've got to sit up, I'm not going to feed it to you sideways (ph). Come on. Sorry.

THERAPIST: It's all right.

CLIENT: She's overheating, I think. But yeah, it is. I actually didn't start getting the accomplishment for getting something that was hard done until college, partly because of the fact that everything was easy in high school. [0:21:01] So I had so many other friends that had this sort of problem. But they never dealt with it right. They were a big fish in a small pond, and then they didn't think they ever had to do anything. And then they just did it perfectly, and... but when they got to college they got screwed. They got screwed big time. Not me. Oh no, I never did homework in high school if I didn't need it. Never.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: However, if I... but in college I did it, and I felt so accomplished by getting it done and getting it... having it there and ready to turn in, because it was the... the fact is I was having my... not my ass kicked, but I definitely had a reckoning in realizing that I had to get... that I really had to try. I didn't just naturally be able to figure it out on my own. And so that's actually when I actually really got good at what I did, is when the point of once I got things that I just couldn't... I just didn't know. [0:21:58] And so it was a struggle with that. But the... but yeah, until then it wasn't as big of a deal. I really... it would have been easy to say I wasn't applying myself except for the fact that I didn't... there was nothing to apply myself to.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So the... but the... (Pause) That just... that's just sort of what it was. But, I mean, in terms of things to be struggling to, I [have to] (ph) tell you about this. I think I mentioned to you that one of the big things that I've always wanted to do with my life that makes me very sad that I probably now never will, is my dad and I occasionally talk about the idea of going to see the ruins of... from the Aeneid (pause), Troy.

THERAPIST: Troy?

CLIENT: It's one of the few ruins that actually technically right now I probably could do because they're not... unlike pyramids and other things like that, it's actually not that hard to get in and out of. [0:23:03] It's not a lot of... it's not that much climbing. It'd probably be exhausting at the end of the day, but it's not that bad. And it's the equivalent of just going around Providence or something like that...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Or (inaudible at 0:23:13) or something. But just because of... my dad's getting older. I didn't have my time, this and that, and just things like that. So every Wednesday now, Dad and I are learning classical Latin together via Skype. I'm not joking. We've already done it once. And we're doing it only specifically so that we can read the Aeneid together in Latin.

THERAPIST: That's awesome.

CLIENT: Now, my ass is being kicked by Latin, really kicked by Latin.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It was the worst and most difficult thing I've done, and my dad and I both struggled through our first lesson together, doing this together. He doesn't... he sort of...

THERAPIST: [But most of the letters are math] (ph), at least. [0:23:56]

CLIENT: Well, that's actually really funny because...

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: You would think that... because they all know the math or the letters from math and from physics. But you'd be shocked actually...

THERAPIST: There are way more letters than (crosstalk).

CLIENT: (Crosstalk) I know the capitals. And I know a good bit of the small, because we use gamma and this, that...

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But I have never had a need to use small iota in my life and therefore do not know what it looks like at the top.

THERAPIST: Huh. Okay. (Crosstalk)

CLIENT: Also, a lot of it is... what's it called? Because it is almost the same as Cyrillic but not quite the same, it's actually harder than you think, because then you get screwed up as to which...

THERAPIST: Huh. I see, yeah.

CLIENT: It's like watching me with Sesame Street. I will actually sound the word out, sound the word out. All of a sudden the trigger's... then I'm like, oh, they're saying akula (sp?). That's [ah koo la] (sp?). Seriously, I'm like, oh my God, sure, okay. That's what that words says. But yeah, I can read it. [0:25:05] But the...

THERAPIST: But anyway the Latin alphabet looks enough like that to make it confusing.

CLIENT: And it's not all of it. It's maybe 10%, there's a difference?

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: But those differences are big differences. So that's kind of a weird thing. But yes, so it's also learning the way that things are pronounced. Knowing the alphabet is good, but there're certain things that are not quite pronounced the way you would think they would be, that kind of thing.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So it's very... we're both laughing to death while we're doing this, but I think it's really good. And we're doing it specifically... there's a text basically specifically to teach you enough Latin to read the Aeneid. That's it. That's the only thing we are doing this for, specifically so we can read the Aeneid, maybe the Odyssey. [0:25:59] But just to focus on that in terms of that, and so yeah, it's been...

(Phone sound)

CLIENT: This might actually be important. Nope, that's mom. Okay. But the... yes, my phone does sound like a modem. Everyone loves it.

THERAPIST: Circa 1985 or so.

CLIENT: Well, that's a nineteen two, so that's got to be 1994.

THERAPIST: Oh God.

CLIENT: But yeah, that's a nineteen two handshake. But yes, it's part of my little hacker cred there. So the... so it's like one of those things where it's a struggle, but we're laughing, we're having a good time. Originally he was saying I needed to be really judicious about who I say this to. [0:26:56] And he's right, because the first time... the reason why I didn't learn ancient Latin originally... and he knows Latin. He knows Italian, he knows French. I mean, they're... he's not as good as mom is. Dad's sort of like... he's okay. But he doesn't pick it up like Mom does.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Mom just picks up languages like you wouldn't believe. I have no idea how she does it. She... her sister worked as an international operator, because she would pick up languages like some people bought shoes.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: So there's... it's one of the many reasons why I think I was... brought the wrong baby home from the hospital.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But... so... but he was told by his parents that he shouldn't learn ancient Latin because it was completely useless, as a kid. And he's like, you need to do blah blah blah. And he was told not to and how useless it was. And a couple of other people have made some faces when he was talking about this. [And he said] (ph), you need to be judicious about this. And I told him a couple of things, one of which is I don't... he has a lot of business associates that have become friends. [0:27:57] My friends would... anybody who would judge me or say something funny about that, they're not my friend. If they gave me crap about the Latin thing...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Not my friend. And... although he doesn't have that choice, because a lot of the people, they have this blurred line between... in terms of... in the legal world, of people that you work with so often that they really are friends. But they still taunt you a little bit about that kind of thing. But yeah, so I'm basically... on Wednesday we're doing that, and on Thursday I'm sort of writing a series of small, very quick essays about insights I've had about learning Latin. And basically It's All Latin to Me is what I'm calling it. But it's basically things like... me actually be talking about the fact that, gee, I really thought that my extensive science would have made this easy. But no. I mean, I can recognize all the letters. It's easy. I can write all the letters. [0:28:55] But trying to get a word and sounding it out, harder than it looks.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And so yeah. And so that's been kind of a... the struggles with things...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But luckily there's zero stakes at all. And so it's pleasurable so far. But yeah. So... and it's just like I said, this week has been like a freaking rollercoaster. I had a really great time with that, but then all this stuff about getting old. There was quite a bit of drama on Saturday because... I'm not sure if you've ever heard of this. There is... you know the Theatre is?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Okay, so they have a bunch of different shows that run every... they run every week, but on a certain night of the week. I had always wanted to go to the donkey show because I like Midsummer Night's Dream. Never got a chance to go partially because my spouse doesn't really want to go. [0:29:55] There's a lot of... it's very complicated why he doesn't want to go. A lot of it is because of the nature of the production of it. Well, [some of the] (ph) other things, too. He's not really into disco. I'm not really into disco, but I'm interested in this kind of thing.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: One of my coworkers is leaving to go to New Zealand for a year. She's teaching out there. So she... as part of this she wanted to go to the donkey show. Unfortunately she wanted to go to the donkey show last weekend, the late show, when I had to work on Sunday morning.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I actually did end up going to part of it. I slept all day, and I went to a few... more or less an hour of it and went home. Not... this was a big deal for me to do this, though.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But Mike was just like... he's like, I have all these... I already have kind of (inaudible at 0:30:40) three reasons why I think it's a bad idea for you to go, partially for finances, which makes sense, partially because of... I'm trying to remember what it was... just reasons, reasons that seemed kind of vaguely okay. [0:30:54] His feet were already starting to hurt him from hanging around all day, standing up and doing this kind of thing, interactive stuff, [maybe not] (ph), etc, etc. And so I'm like, okay, well, you're not going. That's fine. So I'm going to get myself up and get myself dressed and try to get ready to go out. And eventually he's like, well, I was just thinking. And it is Shakespeare, [which means I will] (ph) have a good time. And I was like, oh no, you don't get... that ship has sailed. You just told me all these reasons that had nothing to do with the fact that it's Shakespeare and you'll have a good time, that you're thinking about going now. I'm like, no, I've already got it in me to go by myself out to this. I'm going by myself is the point...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because I just didn't want to be like, okay, now you're done, you've decided this, that... I don't know what it was that got into me, but I just felt like, you know what? I'm... you never want to go to these things. I understand. It was only after I was getting dressed to go out, and he might want to go. [0:31:57] And it just felt like... (Pause) Luckily he realized partway through that... and he actually admitted this, he's like, you know, I am acting really selfish right now. I want you to have a good time. So you go out. I'm like, wow. It only took me being very (pause) impolite about how I felt about it to get him to get to that point. But it was nice to actually eventually have him realize he was being selfish...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because it's like, this isn't about you. This isn't your friend. I wanted you to come, but you didn't want to go.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And you found every reason in the world that you couldn't go, but those reasons weren't so bad when you thought, oh, well, I guess once I got dressed up and ready to go out and all this kind of stuff, he thought maybe he could go. I don't know. But it just really frustrated. So we went. And since I decided to come super home... or I got, you know... go home super early because... so I didn't actually get to see the whole thing. But that's okay. [0:33:01] I'm glad I just went, because I'm the kind of person who never goes anywhere, especially if it's on a Saturday night. And...

THERAPIST: Did you enjoy it?

CLIENT: I had a good time, I had a really good time (chuckling).

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: I disturbingly enough now have way too many pictures of things to potentially blackmail my coworkers with.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: So a couple of my coworkers ended up becoming part of the audience participation, and so that was something amusing, to say the least (laughing).

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But I just... I had a great time.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: I was exhausted by the time I came home. But, because I knew I wanted to go, I pre-slept. I grabbed a bottle of water to drink while I was in line, all these things that, I guess, you... if you're 24 or 22 or whatever you don't really have to worry about any more. [0:34:00] But yeah... so that was at least helpful. But I just felt so bad, because I was just like, I'm... (Pause) I'd already been feeling really crappy about feeling old and all that kind of stuff. And it just took a lot for me to go and do it by myself, I guess is what I was trying to say. (Pause) But yeah, that's pretty much... like I said, it's been up and down, up and down this week. I hate being like this. There's a lot of people who love the extremes of life. I don't like them, I just happen to live them.

THERAPIST: What...? Sorry, what did you have to kind of contend with? I mean, you've made it clear so far about the physical side of it, how you had to prepare and kind of get ready and leave early... [0:34:58]

CLIENT: Yeah. I just felt really... like I said, because I was running a fever this week. Then all this stuff was happening. I've just been more or less sort of... more than a little bit of a meltdown of, like, my life is over, I feel like crap, why in the world I even bother, kind of feeling.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Everything was making me cry. Everything was making me this. And, like I said, it wasn't until afterwards, when I realized I was running a fever, that that's probably what, at least on some level, contributing to it. But I've just been snapping, and just it's like... do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to have a meltdown in front of a person (inaudible at 0:35:31)? Having arguments with people about something that's...

THERAPIST: Wait, where did the meltdown happen?

CLIENT: Oh, that happened on campus. That was when I was... after the doctor's appointment, when I had just been told that I'm just too old, I had to go by the pharmacy. And I told them something about...

THERAPIST: So this is outside of?

CLIENT: I'm sorry?

THERAPIST: You said on campus (crosstalk)...

CLIENT: On campus, like over... yeah.

THERAPIST: MBM.

CLIENT: Yeah. [0:35:59]

THERAPIST: Yeah, okay.

CLIENT: I had to... I was having some trouble with one of the pharmacists about a very specific thing. And I was just like, you know what? Just put it all back. If you're going be... if you're going to argue with me about something I already know, about something that...

THERAPIST: Is that same pharmacist as before?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: You're going to argue with me about something I already know. I need to get this... the way that... to submit flexible spending now has gotten more... it actually... it is now easier for me to fake receipts than to use the real ones because they cannot understand the real ones. That's really pissing me off, by the way, because I like to be legitimate about things. But they don't understand... they need to have all kind of stuff, like number of days' supply of medication written on... this all started August 1st. And I already submitted stuff, and it already got thrown back. [0:36:53] And it's like it has to have now the number of days' supply on it and not just the prescription name and all the regular stuff, which they don't put on... they used to put it on the UHS stuff, but now they don't. And they did it two years ago, but the new system doesn't, and all this other stuff.

And I just had this argument, and they're like, well, I just submitted them. Then I'm like, yes, you probably did, too, but I just did, and it got bumped. And I submitted it on August 1st, and on August 3rd it got thrown back. And at this point I'm like, if you're going to argue with me over whether or not this is something that is necessary, just put it all back, I don't want it, and just walked away. I was just... but I think I said something a lot more obscene than that, but I don't remember. I just totally lost it. And it's embarrassing, because I'm the person who's patient about everything. These are the things I'm having... I'm having this happen more often. [0:37:59] I'm having these happen every couple of weeks now, where I just lose it on somebody and yell at them. I just... (Pause) It's embarrassing to not have that... to not have much control. It's not... (Pause) I like to have... as much as possible I don't like to be ruled by emotions. I don't like to... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause)

CLIENT: And so that's (pause) really difficult.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause) [0:39:00]

CLIENT: And (pause) I don't know. Like I said, that's just sort of... (Pause) I guess I just sort of... (Pause) Because I have to deal with so much crap on a regular basis, I just feel like, on some level, that, if I bother to speak with somebody or deal with something, it's because I already tried these things or I've already done these things. [0:39:56] And so it's just really...

THERAPIST: Sure. And that happens all the time, where people have... (Pause) Well, this may be a little far afield, but I sort of have a feeling maybe you'll appreciate it. You know... did you ever see the Monty Python sketch where there's a guy who can't say the letter C, and then he's (inaudible at 0:40:21). And this other guy comes along and says, well, why don't you just say the letter K instead of the letter C? The guy's like, oh my God, I never thought of that. And then he can pronounce everything because he pretends it's the letter K.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: And it's sort of a joke on the fact that the guy's lived his whole life...

CLIENT: (Chuckling)

THERAPIST: Not being able to pronounce the letter C, and somebody comes along with the bright idea...

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: To try this other thing, and obviously that's something he would have thought about decades before...

CLIENT: In theory. Yes, exactly.

THERAPIST: But, I mean, sort of the joke is that, oh my God, I never thought of that (chuckling). It's kind of like that, where...

CLIENT: Yeah. [0:40:55] Well, actually I think I said something along the lines of... because they're like, well, is...? Aren't you supposed to put something on the form? I'm like, there is no part on the form. I'm having to start to make up my own forms. I'm tearing apart them and making new forms because they keep coming up with new things that are supposed to be on the forms. But there are not... physically there's no part of the form that says this for that's on there.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I'm like... I think I actually started off, we're at Yale. Do you think I haven't read the form?

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) Right.

CLIENT: I think I actually said that. But I said something equivalent to that. And it's just... I swear that I just... maybe other people have this feeling, too, but not me. I never used to do this.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: But just I'm... my fuse has gotten very short for dealing with incompetent people.

THERAPIST: Well, I'm not sure about this, but... (Pause) [0:41:57] In addition to feeling really upset about the sort of time and kind of opportunities or expectations or things you've expected that have been lost, I imagine you're kind of pissed off about it, and that that maybe has something to do with...

CLIENT: Oh, trust me, I also wish I could get my time back.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And [you've gotten] (ph) mad about losing it, and...

CLIENT: I'm very mad about losing (inaudible at 0:42:24) that it was totally my fault, and now I have to spend 45 minutes on the phone arguing with people over how to do math.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know what I mean? I wish I could get that time back in my life, too.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I see.

CLIENT: I mean, it's different... it's a different type of you're-wasting-my-time kind of thing.

THERAPIST: Sure. (Pause)

CLIENT: And it's just very frustrating. There's a lot of things in my life where I wish I could just get that time back. [0:42:59]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Probably the biggest reason why I don't actively pursue talking to my husband that much about his addiction any more is because I wish I could get this time back in my life that I've had to be staring each other, running around, having these vague conversations in which they're left up for interpretation, or being lied to, or having to slowly spiral into the truth. You know what? I just... I have so much of my life that I've had to spend towards this.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I just don't want to spend another minute of it. So... (Pause) I just... but at the same time I feel (exhaling) ashamed that I feel like I shouldn't have to... not that I shouldn't have to, but that I don't want to have to. [0:43:57] Like, as if somebody... I think that I'm special or something like that, that I need to be somehow exempt from having to do these kind of things.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause) Well, we should finish up for now.

CLIENT: Sounds good.

THERAPIST: And I'll see you next week.

CLIENT: Sounds good. See you next week. (Pause) [Ready to go] (ph)? (Pause)

THERAPIST: Do you want me to get the door?

CLIENT: Yes, please. Took a lot more than usual this week.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 044:45) I can fix that.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) Take care. See you.

END TRANSCRIPT