TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I was replying to an e-mail.
THERAPIST: Got you.
CLIENT: (Sigh), (pause), it's like everyone in my entire life has been conspiring this week, to just make me frustrated and unhappy. I know that's not actually true. There's no grand conspiracy. Don't worry, I'm not having paranoid delusions, but I certainly feel very besieged right now.
THERAPIST: I'm sorry to hear that.
CLIENT: And I just got an e-mail five minutes ago that contributed to the my God. What the fuck is wrong with people sensation that I've been having all day.
THERAPIST: I'm going to get some water real quick.
CLIENT: (Laughs).
THERAPIST: I may be [inaudible at 00:00:49] down [inaudible at 00:00:52]. (Pause), okay, well where would you like to start with it?
CLIENT: (Laughs), I don't even know. So my priest just e-mailed me, saying she wants to nominate me for the Union of Black Episcopalians Absalom Jones Award, which (pause), I am all for inter-racial solidarity. And I definitely believe that people of color, of different ethnicities organizing together is the way to make progress on social justice issues. And I'm all about that.
But it's the Union of Black Episcopalians. It specifically says in its charter that it's for members of the African Diaspora in the U.S. And Absalom Jones was a black priest of the Episcopal church, and it just, (sigh). [00:01:54]
THERAPIST: I think I see where you're going with this.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. (Pause), and just, (sigh), we've never my parish has never nominated a black American for this award. We have always nominated immigrants.
THERAPIST: Do they nominate somebody every year or ... ?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: It's an annual award and each parish is expected to nominate a member of their parish. I've known parishes that have only one black person, so the same person gets nominated every year.
But I mean a third of our congregation are African descended, and probably of that third, half are recent immigrants from Africa or Caribbean Islands, and the other half are black Americans who have been in this country for generations. And we've never nominated any of the black Americans, always the immigrants who, (sigh), God. [00:02:51]
Last year the woman we nominated from our congregation thought said explicitly that black people who choose to go to all black churches are reverse racists and stupid.
(Pause), and I realize that there's all kinds of complex things between African immigrants and black Americans. I mean there's a whole lot of stuff there that I don't understand because I'm not part of -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Of either of those communities, but just, (pause), given that the Union of Black Episcopalians is primarily for black Americans, I there's just so much wrong with -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: The whole, (pause). I don't even, (pause), (sigh), sorry so yeah. I was forwarding that e-mail to a friend of mine, with a rant, (chuckle), when you walked out.
THERAPIST: (Laughs).
CLIENT: (Laughs) [inaudible at 00:03:53].
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Why did you say you were sorry?
CLIENT: (Pause), because I feel compelled to apologize for everything, even when it's completely inappropriate to do so.
THERAPIST: Oh, okay.
CLIENT: I apologize a lot, often unnecessarily often in cases where my apologies just make the situation worse. This is a known bug in my social conditioning that I'm trying to undo.
THERAPIST: Oh, okay.
CLIENT: Sometimes I don't even realize I've done it until someone points it out -
THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:04:38].
CLIENT: Like you just did.
THERAPIST: (Clears throat), got you.
CLIENT: And then I go oh, well that thing I do again but no. I think I was apologizing because I was ranting, which is kind of silly because that should be perfectly okay in this space, right?
THERAPIST: Absolutely. (Pause), it wasn't, I think, to make you feel silly only because I wondered about sort of yeah, what your misgiving was. So I guess you must have had a something flash across your mind where you feel like it wasn't okay.
CLIENT: (Sigh), so yeah, I haven't really had time to think about -
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: My feelings about this e-mail other than knee-jerk reaction, because I just got it.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: This whole week at work has just been ridiculously frustrating, and I've had a really hard time coming up with the right words to use with my co-workers, and managers, because it's just, we had a group meeting yesterday and (chuckles), I kind of lost it in the group meeting, as did two other members of my group. [00:05:55]
Because this phase of the project we're on is fucking ridiculous. We're doing take-out check listing after the point where we're not allowed to make changes to our design. So if we discover a problem going through the checklist items, we can't fix it, which sucks.
THERAPIST: So it's like you take a test for a class, you finish the test. You just before you hand it in, you check over all the answers, but you can't actually change them or do anything about them?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: You just have to suffer -
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: After seeing them -
CLIENT: Yeah, right.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: And a lot of the items we've got this checklist of 100 items that it wants us to check, and there're directories with literally tens of thousands of reports to dig through. [00:06:40]
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: And there are scripts written to dig through these reports for, and some of the scripts are buggy. None of them are inversion, (ph), control. None of the scripts have been peer reviewed.
Some of the questions don't make sense. Some of the questions were written for a project that was done in 2005 -
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: And they're just legacy, because no one has the balls to say we don't need this anymore, because if we actually get silicone, (ph), back from the factory, and there's a bug, no one wants to be responsible for oh, well you deleted the question from the checklist that would have caught this bug.
So it's and it's a huge waste of time. And there are some questions that almost no one understands how to answer the questions. There are questions that just ask completely wrong things, as in they ask you to look for a specific phrase in a report, and that phrase isn't there, because the report format has changed. And it's just it's a complete shit show.
And in addition to that because I'm new and I've never seen one of these checklists before, there are all kinds of things that I didn't know I was going to be responsible for when I was designing my component. [00:07:40]
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: So like three months ago when I could make changes to my component, I didn't know, for example, that they were going to ask us to make sure the click gator to flop networks were never longer than 30 microns. And so I have some that are 33 or 34 microns, and now I'm failing this check.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And it's like -
THERAPIST: For not having known.
CLIENT: This list wasn't provided to me until after we froze the block.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: I couldn't possibly have done this, and now I'm being held responsible. And (sigh), so our weekly group meeting my manager asked the group do you have any problems with TCMS, the take-out checklist something. I don't know what the MS stands for, but whatever. We call it TCMS. And [he had], (ph), complained about a couple of questions that were broken and -
THERAPIST: MS [leadership chart], (ph).
CLIENT: (Chuckles), good thinking. And Jamie had a couple of complaints that was my biggest frustration, is that there's a lot of things on this list that I was not told I'd be responsible for before we froze.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:08:41]
CLIENT: And I really think it was either my boss or my mentor's responsibility to provide me with this list well in advance, so that I could make sure I was passing, because I'm failing seven checks. And that's not okay.
And my manager was, well it was in the dashboard that I put up on the twickie, (ph). I was, no. Four of these seven things were not on the dashboard, and the other three I asked you about and you told me not to worry about them.
He was, no, they were there. I was, no they really weren't. And then Jamie broke in and said, well even if they were, it doesn't matter because and then Jamie went on this long philosophical, existential rant about how the entire way we do check listing is completely broken.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And that kind of distracted the conversation.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I never got back to my argument with my manager.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But I feel like I wasn't in control of what I was saying, that I was just saying things because I was emotional and frustrated, and not I wasn't planning to come to the meeting with these problems. I was -
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:09:48]
CLIENT: Planning on saving them for so Kirk isn't the manager of this group that I'm temporarily assigned to isn't my real manager.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: And I meet one-on-one with my real manager, who I get along well with -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: So planned on just bringing this all to Chris -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And be Chris -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: This is really not fair, and Kirk's got me up against the wall on this. And I don't know what to do.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And letting Chris deal with it, because -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: He's our manager and that's his job.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But Kirk solicited frustrations and once he and Jamie got started I was well, I might as well contribute too, and it was -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: I didn't plan it and I didn't have a strategy for dealing with it. And it was just I feel really bad and like I made this huge tactical or political error. And I've just been -
THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:10:34]
CLIENT: Second guessing myself ever since, and (pause), (sigh), and it doesn't help that Kirk's communication style is incredibly vague like I'll ask him a single directed question and he'll start talking about his design philosophy. And then he'll tell me about an argument he had.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: With William over in verification and he thinks this and William thinks that, and well and the guy over in floor plan thinks this. Then they have this discussion and then the other leads got in on it. And he's getting too much e-mail, and he doesn't know what to think. But do this except no, wait. He just remembered he got that e-mail from Tim. Do that. And at the end of 20 minutes, I have no fucking clue what the answer to my question is or what my action items are.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And when I try to press him for what's my action item -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Oh we already discussed that. And it's so frustrating, and I hate working with him. And (sigh), this project is almost over. It's over in four weeks.
We're done with it and I'll get reassigned back into Chris's group. And I'll be okay, and I just have to hang on for four weeks. But I hate it. And it's so hard to stay focused on what I need to get at work, especially when half the time, I don't know what the hell I'm suppose to be doing. It's just, (pause). [00:11:59]
Yeah, that was another rant. I don't know if there's really anything I want you to say about that other than I feel like someone heard me. (Pause).
THERAPIST: I wonder if it makes you a little anxious to rant, because you do feel a bit out of control when you're doing it, like in the grip of what you're feeling.
CLIENT: Yep.
THERAPIST: And that, I guess is, (pause), actually this is [pretty appropriate] (ph), but I think that feel quite dangerous. (Pause), it could lead to, (pause), there's a level at which I feel could lead to bad consequences, kind of, (pause). There's a level at which sort of a deep assumption, in a way. [00:13:17]
I can understand if you're in a work setting or some other setting, it might not be strategic -
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Or appropriate to rant, whatever we happen to be ranting -
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: At that moment -
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I am aware of that. But I have I imagine there's something that's, (pause), also it just doesn't feel safe to express in a not entirely in control way what you feel in the moment.
CLIENT: Well no there are some cases where I'm perfectly happy to rant for however long people -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Will let me, (pause) like, (pause), there's this large conversation on Twitter on Tuesday about why there are so few women in technology fields and it was just a bunch of women engineers and scientists saying, "look at all of this bull shit I've encountered in my career." [00:14:25]
And I chimed in with a couple of my personal stories and someone was like, "well the answer is to encourage younger girls to get into engineering." And that just completely set me off because that's bull shit. And I just went on a terror, really, on why that's bull shit. And I didn't feel anxious or apologetic about it.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: But I also felt, (pause), not 100 percent, but really, really strongly confident that I was right. (Pause), and also, at least the people who I care about on Twitter, agreed with me. So it's not like I was risking alienating someone by ranting about something where they might disagree. [00:15:20]
(Pause).
THERAPIST: So that actually felt more comfortable, a little bit, than ranting here. It seems like you're [wound and uncomfortable], (ph), ranting here like it's a little bit exciting, I think.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But, I mean it has more to do with, (pause), ranting about something that you sort of, also didn't feel great about. Correct?
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:16:00].
CLIENT: Or the worry that ranting here is unproductive and a waste of both your time and mine.
THERAPIST: Yep.
CLIENT: And, (pause).
THERAPIST: How so?
CLIENT: I don't know. I know we've had this meta-conversation -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But there's still a part of me that feels like I should really focus, in these sessions, on being productive, and processing difficult emotions, and not just like actively processing them, and not wallowing in them. And ranting feels a lot like wallowing to me.
THERAPIST: (Pause), [You think you should just get back to work doing it?] (ph).
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause).
THERAPIST: You're being indulgent?
CLIENT: What?
THERAPIST: You're being indulgent?
CLIENT: Meaning?
THERAPIST: Indulging in a rant.
CLIENT: Aah, yeah. [00:17:01]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause), and I still don't know what to do about the situation with Edson, the guy I started dating recently.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (Sigh), typically we've been talking, like, every other day on I mean -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And he's been radio closed, (ph), since Saturday, and I'm trying very hard not to like Dave's phrase word is reading tea leaves like trying to -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Discern deeper meaning from a lack of information like it could just be that he's busy. I mean he's working full-time and a student, and it's the end of the semester. So he might just be caught up in finals.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Like I can't help but worry that he's decided he wants nothing more to do with me because I am too strident and too militant, and blah, blah, and that's not fair. And it's just this, (pause), ugly tangle of emotions, which is ridiculous because like, we've been dating like a month and a half. I shouldn't be this obsessed over it. [00:18:30]
THERAPIST: (Pause), if we could just get how you're feeling to fall into line appropriately, this would all work so much better.
CLIENT: Yes. Yes it would. (Pause), why do I feel like you weren't being sincere, and that was a statement to be gently teasing?
THERAPIST: (Chuckles), because you're exactly right. (Chuckles).
CLIENT: (Sigh).
THERAPIST: Yeah, (ph), feelings like [inaudible at 00:19:11] obviously, they just don't work that way, and -
CLIENT: But why not? Why don't they work that way?
THERAPIST: (Pause), because (pause), they relate to, (pause), different parts of your personality than, (pause), the part that's concerned with how things should be. (Pause), and the parts they're related to can be explored, such that one can gain more perspective on why one has the reactions to situations one does, such as, (pause), why you worry, having not heard back from Edson, or why you feel more entangled than you imagined you ought to be after six weeks. Yeah. Does that answer your question? [00:20:51]
CLIENT: I guess.
THERAPIST: Well what's your thought?
CLIENT: I realize that it was kind of an inane question to ask in the first place. (Pause), and your answer mostly boiled down to just because. (snicker), although I appreciate the effort. (Laughs).
THERAPIST: (Laughs).
CLIENT: (Sigh).
THERAPIST: I can live with that.
CLIENT: What?
THERAPIST: I can live with that. (Pause), (clears throat), (pause), I guess my [intently, two things], (ph), remark was also meant and I kind of think it through like this, consciously but was also meant to, (pause), point out, like a, sort of a way of coping or a kind of like a defensive style I think that you sometimes have, which is, (pause), to side with the part of yourself that's, (pause), angry, and wants to be in and critical, and wants to be in charge, rather than the part that doesn't make sense, and is more, kind of, vulnerable, and (pause), [let your lesson], (ph), that you're not so much in control of, (pause), which is to say, feelings. [00:22:45].
CLIENT: (Snicker), (pause), feelings suck. (Pause), when I was little I wanted to grow up to be a Vulcan and not have feelings.
THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:22:58].
CLIENT: I had a friend in high school well no he wasn't a friend because Kirk didn't really do friends. I had a classmate and fellow competitor [in the team], (ph), Teammates, who gave every appearance of not having emotions to the people around him. Obviously, I have no idea what was going on in his inner life, because he did an outstanding job of appearing like he didn't feel anything ever, of any kind. (Pause), I used to really envy him for that. [00:23:42]
THERAPIST: (Pause), unless there was something quite unusual going on with him, (pause), [inaudible at 00:24:16] circumstance. (Pause), you know, look, I, (pause), I suppose I've come across as somewhat critical of you, which is not so much what I, (pause), seen, in that I can understand when they hurt, wanting or when they are messy or incomprehensible, or uncontrollable, you want them to just go away.
CLIENT: That would be nice, yeah. It doesn't work that way though. (Pause), (sigh), (pause). Anyway [00:27:01].
THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:27:02].
CLIENT: I'm thinking about church stuff. Did I mention on Monday, the leader of our [inaudible at 00:27:10] is stepping down?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. I'm going to be out of town for the next [inaudible at 00:27:15], since I'm team leading, which I feel incredibly guilty over it, especially since [the reason], (ph), I'm going to be out of town is to go to a rave. But this is a party that happens every year, and I go to it every year. And it's the highlight of my year. And -
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Yeah. Well one of the highlights of my year I suppose. The real highlight of my year is [inaudible at 00:27:37], but the highlight of my winter at least. And (sigh), and -
THERAPIST: Have you mentioned this rave before?
CLIENT: Yeah, [inaudible at 00:27:48]. It's great. So years ago when [inaudible] closed my roommates and I were terribly distraught over it closing. And we tried to find another place to go dancing, in the area. And we [gave it], (ph), all the other dancing places and we were talking about, oh this one has too many teeny boppers. This one has like, too many whiny, teenage Goths. And this one has too many this, and this isn't our scene because of blah.
And my roommate, Lori, was like, "I know. We should throw a rave. That would be, like, the perfect DJ, and the perfect crowd, everything will be perfect. It will be exactly what we want, what it used to be."
And so we threw, (laughs), [inaudible at 00:28:27], right? In our living room there were 20 people who showed up. And it wasn't really a rave. It was just a dance party event. (Pause), Lori threw the same party the next year, and the next year, and now she rents out this enormous 20 thousand square foot room warehouse now, every winter. [00:28:46]
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: And it actually is a rave, because at this point she has hundreds and hundreds of people showing up and -
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: Last year people flew in from Europe to come to it.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: People we knew from college -
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Are living there now, but yeah so it's turned into half party, half reunion. And everyone spends the whole weekend in San Francisco, and we get together, get a brunch, and go dancing. And it's great.
THERAPIST: That's awesome.
CLIENT: And I didn't it overlapped with our [inaudible at 00:29:13] racism team meeting when I booked my tickets for it, (pause), and then I realized it, and I feel horribly, horribly guilty, like I'm ditching all of my responsibilities, especially because I skipped my last commitment for the Inter-racism team to go to a concert.
And I don't regret that, but I do regret missing two in a row. And I didn't realize I'd be missing two in a row when I made that decision, and I think I might have chosen otherwise if I had known. But like even if I had realized that there was a conflict before I booked my plane tickets, I probably still would have chosen to go.
But (pause), I feel really guilty and miserable over the fact that I've now blown off two meetings in a row. And (pause), I don't know how to deal with the feeling guilty; because Dave swears up and down that I haven't done anything wrong. And other people have missed meetings, and no one would begrudge me this chance to go to this annual party/reunion. [00:30:25]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: He's probably right, but I have a hard time believing him, and I still feel horrible. And (pause), yeah, (pause), (sigh), (pause). Dave thinks that I'm just using this as an excuse to beat myself up because I have a deep seeded need to feel miserable all the time, and that if it weren't this, it would be something else.
THERAPIST: (Pause), (clears throat), the important part I don't, (pause), it's certainly not clear to me that you have a deep seeded need to feel miserable all the time. (Pause), I do I was actually thinking, as well, that, (pause), you seem to be beating yourself up over this. [00:31:55]
I had wondered if it was in reaction to, (pause) [when it matters at all to you], (ph), like failing both as a Vulcan, and maybe a little bit, as a therapy patient, in terms of, sort of, stuff about feelings [inaudible at 00:32:28].
CLIENT: I'm not quite sure where you're going with that.
THERAPIST: With the latter part?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: (Pause), I guess when you were talking a minute or two ago about, (pause), [inaudible at 00:32:56] about feeling, [inaudible at 00:32:57], and you were this part really doesn't [inaudible at 00:33:02].
CLIENT: [inaudible at 00:33:03]
THERAPIST: (Pause), whether there was a little bit of on your part kind of, yes, I should know this. Yes kind of chiding yourself a little bit about it something a little like that on one side. And on the other side, (clears throat), (pause), maybe also I don't know, maybe other than something critical for not being more of a Vulcan.
CLIENT: No I think in that moment I was mostly feeling resentful that that's not how it works.
THERAPIST: I see. Oh, okay. (Pause), just mad about how things are set up?
CLIENT: Yeah stupid human brain. (Pause), and then there was a long time where my mind started wandering, and it wandered into church stuff. I just had [inaudible at 00:34:12] like 30 minutes ago.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: (Pause), and I'm super excited about it, but also feeling guilty about skipping a commitment for it.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And also feeling guilty that I didn't get an art project together for it this year, because every year so as this party reunion thing has evolved, and as we've all gotten jobs, and gotten more money, the scope of it has extended from beyond just a single night of dancing to like, this weekend long bonanza of like there are people who compose music for it, and there are people who put together DJ sets, and there's an art show. Lori rents out a gallery and all of our friends -
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: Bring art for the gallery. And Lori's been one of my closest friends since we were like, 17, and a freshman, and every year I've promised to get my act together and bring a piece of are for the fucking art show. And every year it gets to November and I realize shit. I haven't gotten my act together and put together art. Damn it. [00:35:21]
(Pause), and I feel really guilty for that. Like even though she has never said a word to me about it.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: She's never asked me for it.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: She's never asked me why I haven't brought anything. And there's always plenty. We always fill up the gallery she buys out and -
THERAPIST: Right, so this is not coming from her?
CLIENT: It's just, yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Like this is all coming from me. It's not coming from anywhere else. But I feel a little bit like, (pause), (sigh), and this is completely not based in reality, but I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't contribute to making the party awesome, which is completely not true. There are lots of people who do nothing except show up, and it's and even just showing up contributes to making the party awesome, because it's -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: A chance to see everyone, and if people aren't there it's like but
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It's a very small number of people who, like bring art or compose music or whatever.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But I still feel like I ought to be one of the super-awesome people who've -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Done something and -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (Sigh), (pause), yeah. [00:36:23]
THERAPIST: (Pause), is that what it's about, you think super-awesomeness? I mean you seem, I think, to feel like pretty responsible in a lot of places, for a lot of things. (Pause), like you should do this. And in order to be a good citizen, that requires this, this, this, this, this, this, and that. And the responsibility is heavy and (pause), [on your own], (ph), like in a way, I can tell it's like a very nice thing. But it, (pause), it can also weigh heavily I think. And then it -
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Can make you feel sort of guilty or -
CLIENT: Yeah, well I think part of it is, (pause), maybe guilty was the wrong word to use. I don't think it's quite accurate more I feel like the loser. All right? [00:37:33]
(Pause), (sniff), (pause), so yeah, I feel guilty for skipping the anti-racism -
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Committee meeting.
THERAPIST: But that's different from [inaudible at 00:37:41]
CLIENT: But that's different from how I feel about not getting my act together to get a piece of art for the art show. And I think it's more as though, (pause), like actually what I'm about to say is true in a wide variety of social situations that I'm often deeply worried that people don't actually want me around or don't think I'm that great, and that I have to justify my existence at social functions.
Like, (pause), you know, if I just go and show up I'm the tag along [hanger on], (ph), that people tolerate because I'm inoffensive. But if I did something that people could look at and say this adds value, then that justifies my presence there.
THERAPIST: (Pause), ouch.
CLIENT: Yeah or like another way the same sort of root feeling plays out, what I was thinking about earlier today is, you know, when I'm starting a relationship with someone, I get really agitated and anxious, and unhappy if I'm always the one to initiate scheduling our next dates -
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:38:56]
CLIENT: Because that feels like, (pause), oh they're only spending time with me because I pushed them for it and they've got nothing better to do with their time. And but if they call me to say, when are you free, then that's justification for why I'm there, that clearly there's something I'm bringing to the table other than just you know, being pushy and annoying. They're agreeing to [what I'm all ready getting at], (ph), so that which I realize that doesn't make any sense.
Because it's far easier to tell someone no, I don't want to see you, than to keep going on dates with someone you don't like. But like it still makes me incredibly unhappy if I'm always the one to say so when's the next time?
THERAPIST: (Pause), is part of it also because it's nice to feel wanted? [00:39:59]
CLIENT: (Pause), I think that would be the way normal people would feel. (Pause), like, I do think I take it to a level beyond just the normal, understandable, it's nice to feel wanted.
THERAPIST: (Pause), yeah, and I guess I'm hearing you describe it, (pause), because you're, kind of, (pause), needing something extra, whether it's a piece of art you brought with you or a clear indication that the other person wants to be there -
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: In order to not to feel like someone who's just kind of tolerated?
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause), and that's tough because so many of my closest friends are just immensely creative, artistic people. And I have trouble seeing myself as creative. I think we've talked about that before, so you know what I mean. [00:41:25]
But like I have friends who are writers and composers, and singers, and musicians, and poets, and visual artists. And they do amazing things, and I have a day job that lets me have enough money to buy their art. And sometimes I worry that some of them only tolerate me because I patronize their work, (chuckles), which is a terrible way to feel. And I don't think it's true, but it's tough to shake that feeling.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And it's tough to explain that the work I do actually does require a fair bit of intuitive thinking and creative thinking, and it's not just turning the crank on an algorithm, because it's not. (Pause), the domain is so specialized. It's really hard to look at what I do like anyone, regardless of training, can look at a painting on a wall and say, "This required some creativity to create." [00:42:50]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Like it's much harder for an untrained, layperson to look at what I do and see the creativity, instead of just the oh my God numbers. Ick, ick, get them off. (Sigh), (pause), so I don't know. I feel a little bit defensive about my, (pause), my lack of training in any kind of field where people can see what I'm doing? I don't know. There's no elegance it seems, way to phrase that. Like I really wish I was good at something that, (pause), is more performative, that more people would appreciate it.
THERAPIST: (Pause), and nobody can look and appreciate the expression that [inaudible at 00:43:44]? And I don't know [if it counts with the], (ph), [inaudible at 00:44:08].
CLIENT: (Snickers).
THERAPIST: (Chuckles), [inaudible at 00:44:11].
CLIENT: Still working on getting that recipe to work. But, (pause).
THERAPIST: Well I was wondering why I thought of that. And my first thought was like it seemed like a possible [inaudible at 00:44:53] example -
CLIENT: (Snickers).
THERAPIST: Which I'm happy to provide.
CLIENT: (Snickers).
THERAPIST: And then that made me imagine that there are probably more of those -
CLIENT: Maybe.
THERAPIST: Well, (pause), I'm honestly a little skeptical of your judgment about it.
CLIENT: (Pause), I have a file on my computer of evidence that I don't suck of things people have said to me, mostly, that I recorded for I don't always remember to look at it when I'm feeling down. But when I do it helps.
THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:45:37].
CLIENT: (Pause), like just last week I was saying on Twitter that I was really disappointed I wasn't going to get to [inaudible at 00:45:44] this year because of a stupid situation with my parents.
THERAPIST: Oh the trip, that's right.
CLIENT: Yeah. Anyway, someone had asked me if I was going to sign up for programming for Con. And I was like no I can't because the stupid situation with my parents. And I'm really disappointed. And three people responded with "I didn't know you weren't going to make it. Oh no. It won't be the same without you." or variations on that. And I had no idea that people cared. Yeah. So that went into my folder of proof that I don't completely suck.
THERAPIST: Yeah, good. (Pause), I have a hypothesis that, (pause), there's more evidence around, (pause), for your not sucking and people's wanting you around than you tend to allow yourself easily to see. [00:46:50]
I mean it's good that people, you know, say things directly, in a way where it really gets through. (Pause), that feels good, in the sense [I think you're saying], (ph), really important, (pause).
I pretty strongly suspect that there are, (pause), other instances of that or of people appreciating your creativity that, (pause), [inaudible at 00:47:48].
CLIENT: (Pause), that's kind of an unprovable, (ph), statement, but I'll accept it for now.
THERAPIST: Sure. (Pause), I guess I make it in part because maybe we'll come across things that support it. I think, yeah, we should stop now. Okay?
CLIENT: Okay. I'll see you on Monday.
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: The following Monday I will be out of town.
THERAPIST: Okay.
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