TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
(background noise until 00:00:27)
THERAPIST: What's on your mind?
CLIENT: (pause) I feel completely ridiculous but I'm still mostly just thinking about Ashley which is absurd and I'm…[a crime] (ph) that I am spending this much emotional energy on a boy, a boy I've only known for three months. This is absurd. I am very displeased with myself about it. So I guess there's another level of thinking about how to [squeeze by on] (ph) myself with thinking about Ashley so much.
(silence from 00:00:57 to 00:01:44)
But I worry that there's [things probably] (ph) unhealthy and obsessive about how much I'm thinking about him. (pause) You would tell me if there was, right?
THERAPIST: (pause) Let's see.
(silence from 00:02:03 to 00:02:18)
I guess it's sort of a tricky question not because I'm trying to keep something from you that I think. It's not that. It's kind of like… (pause) I guess I think that (inaudible) questions yes. (inaudible) (chuckle) (pause) How do we (inaudible) going on? In other words, like (inaudible) going on. But (pause) sure. I mean, I understand you're right in the same way that if I thought you had lots of OCD symptoms or if I thought you were breaking too much. I'm thinking of things that I…I certainly wouldn't avoid saying it if it seemed relevant. I'd say something (inaudible). I don't really know how much…I mean you tell me you think a lot about him. (pause) I'm not exactly sure where the line is there, apart from not knowing how much you're actually thinking about him. (chuckle) [00:03:58]
And unlike some other potentially symptomatic things or symptoms (inaudible) was thinking about somebody [who you can trust in] (ph). Although I gather (pause) you have some serious concerns.
(silence from 00:04:33 to 00:05:29)
I have a hunch that (pause)…so, okay. (pause) In a way it's sort of weird partly why it's hard to talk with me about how much I think about (inaudible) what you're thinking about because you feel apparently so bad about that and ashamed and (pause) that tends to make things harder to talk about. However, I suspect there's something else as well as something that's related to that which is (pause) – I'm a bit tentative about this but…I think it may be there. I imagine you may worry about some similar feelings of dependence or neediness with me and so that only gets worse if you then talk about something that's difficult or even something in some way like that. [How's that sound?] (ph)
(silence from 00:06:59 to 00:07:53)
CLIENT: So part of the concern I have is he never initiates conversations when we're not physically in each other's presence. So he doesn't IM me. He doesn't text me. And he doesn't initiate scheduling our next date. I've done all of that work. And also (pause) he's extremely introverted so I feel very inhibited about just starting conversations with him online because I don't want to cause him stress or discomfort or make him feel like I am crowding him or invading his space or being too pushy or too demanding or too needy too much. So I've put a lot of effort into throttling back my need for communication and contact and that's not sustainable in the long term. [00:08:43]
But I kept telling myself that as the relationship progressed it would get easier but it hasn't. And in particular the situation with the stupid cat, like the last I had heard about the cat was Sunday night, the cat was doing better and was released from the hospital and was, you know, still a terminally ill cat but was stable for the moment. So I e-mailed him Monday and said, "Would you like to reschedule? These are the dates I'm free. I'm looking forward to seeing you." And I guess the cat took a turn for the worst Sunday night so he replied with, "The cat isn't expected to live through the night. I'll think about this later," which okay fine. The cat's dying. But then Tuesday morning they had a traveling vet over and the cat had recovered somewhat overnight and the vet was like, "No, this cat is not going to die today, probably not tomorrow. He probably has at least weeks if not months." And Ashley still hasn't responded to the scheduling though and that was like three days ago and… [00:09:48]
This has happened before. I'll e-mail him about scheduling and it will take him two or three days to respond and I spend those two or three days just terribly filled with anxiety that I have said something wrong or done something wrong and he's never going to respond. To some extent that's my problem to deal with because my anxiety isn't…is mine and I would have it regardless of who I'm dating and in fact I've had it with everyone I've dated before. (pause) I don't know. [00:10:31]
(pause) I don't know if it's unreasonable to just tell him directly, "I need to have my own conversations with you at least three times a week or I will be very unhappy and if you can't promise me that then I can't keep seeing you." It sounds kind of like an ultimatum to me and ultimatums aren't cool and they aren't okay. But I don't know, on the other hand (pause) keeping a choke hold on what I need out of a relationship is also not cool and not okay.
(silence from 00:11:07 to 00:11:34)
I imagine it's possible but he just doesn't realize that I'm not happy and if I told him which we would also fix it but it could also be that he is just not capable of giving me what I need in which case there is a structural problem with the relationship. But I don't…there is no way to tell which case it is without talking to him directly but I feel that talking to him directly will make him think I'm crazy and run away because of my craziness and not because of any issues with communication.
(silence from 00:12:08 to 00:13:48)
THERAPIST: It does sound as though you're (pause) very worried about (pause) scaring him off or probably (ph) provoking some internal bad judgment on my part (pause) for being crazy (pause) and specifically for wanting to be closer to him and wanting more of him (pause) and wanting those things a lot that that (pause) makes you crazy in some really unappealing way.
CLIENT: That is in fact exactly what I am worried about. (silence from 00:14:57 to 00:15:20)
THERAPIST: Yeah, if the other person is going to be really critical and really turned off hence I am shaming. (ph) (pause) In response to your (pause) need and desire to being closer are more (pause)…I'm sort of reiterating, maybe slightly elaborating (inaudible).
(silence from 00:15:54 to 00:16:44)
CLIENT: Is that crazy?
THERAPIST: Huh? Is it crazy?
CLIENT: Yeah.
(pause)
THERAPIST: What specifically?
CLIENT: I mean just how I use (ph) a solid, concrete measure to talk about the "we need to talk online at least three times a week." Is that an unreasonable thing to ask? Is it unreasonable to frame it like that as a miserable standard? Is this outside the norm of acceptable human behavior? I have no perspective on this at all. [00:17:24]
THERAPIST: And I guess that's (pause) something else that gets implicated here, your (pause)…I think it's also fear and shame (pause) about not knowing or not feeling a sense of perspective on what you want. (pause) I actually think that's very (pause) important, (pause) like that sense of alienation there, I think. (pause) And (pause) it's like (pause) the other person knows the other person's part of the world. The other person has to sort of be firmly planted in the social reality that everybody else knows but him. And you're kind of out there with what you want not knowing if it's anywhere reasonable or makes sense or whatever. And (pause) that's the other person's going (ph) to take, the perspective. [00:19:58]
I know it's (pause)…yeah, kind of different in a way to be asking, "Is this pathological or not?" of somebody that can be that different. But also I think it (pause)…I think that's a kind of overlay on this other ammunition (ph) thing which I think is (pause) part of your social experience fairly often I think.
CLIENT: Yep!
(silence from 00:20:38 to 00:21:16)
THERAPIST: I think [in Tomers] (ph) of perspective I think it's like can the other person tolerate what you want? Is that okay with them? (pause) Alright, I'm also giving you a straight answer, stunningly… (chuckle)
CLIENT: (chuckle) That might be a first.
THERAPIST: No that's not crazy. Different people need different degrees of contact or are comfortable with or want different things in relationships. I mean (pause) I could see if you frame it as somebody that works (ph) (inaudible) this isn't going to work. [And maybe that's true] (ph) just like that. I think also what you're saying is this is what works for you, or at least that's what would work for you with him. It might be different with somebody else but you're feelings are pretty intense and for you in order to be comfortable (inaudible) relationship, that means you need to be in touch pretty often. [00:22:37]
CLIENT: That hasn't been true with all of my relationships, although it has been for most of them. And Tom was something of a special case in that I never really had intense feelings towards him. We were friends. We had amazing sex but we weren't dating so we would go six or seven weeks at a time without talking and that was fine. We also had an established friendship for six years before we started being together. (pause) With Jenny (ph) and Mark, yeah I talked to Mark online pretty much every day. I talked to Jenny (ph) probably two or three times a week. That was a triad and the communication needs were different for both of them. I don't know. I can't come up with any solid explanation for why the amount of contact I need varies so much. (pause) But there it is. [00:23:49]
And really, three days a week…talk to me on IM, that's just my attempt at putting something measurable on the much for nebulous need of (pause)…I worry that he's just along for the ride because I keep flinging myself into his path and shouting "Look at me!" I need reassurance that there is some active interest in me. (pause) You know, communication would satisfy that.
(pause)
THERAPIST: Is your concern that he'd want something more like what you had with Tom with you?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Sort of an occasional thing more so than…
CLIENT: Yeah, which I mean obviously I'm not opposed to the general principle.
THERAPIST: Right. [What would work well?] (ph) (inaudible).
CLIENT: (inaudible) particular, yeah.
(silence from 00:25:02 to 00:25:29)
But hey, I'm writing again. Over the (inaudible) over the weekend and I wrote a short piece of fiction last night that people seem to like. I don't know why.
(silence from 00:25:42 to 00:26:21)
THERAPIST: Yeah you mentioned something yesterday.
CLIENT: It's actually based on a metaphor you made on colds (ph).
THERAPIST: Oh!
CLIENT: I called myself the nutcase and you said to take that literally and imagine me forming a hard shell around my heart.
(silence from 00:26:46 to 00:28:17)
THERAPIST: You didn't mention that yesterday.
(silence from 00:28:19 to 00:28:41)
And I (pause) wonder if it's because there's a communication in it about a way that you feel connected to me that you worry I won't like, I will make you feel uncomfortable, or something.
CLIENT: Maybe? I don't know. I'd have to think on that.
(silence from 00:29:04 to 00:29:45)
THERAPIST: [I don't mean to make you] (ph) uncomfortable, it's just a little ironic. (pause) "I'm going to have to think about that," is a perfectly reasonable thing to say but for some reason you'll be like, "Which is clearly not the sort of thing I'd do here and now at a point like this. Sometime when it's appropriate I'll think about that." (chuckle) I'm not trying to get you to think about that here and now, it's just kind of (inaudible). I was probably evidently smiling and I wanted to explain why.
(pause)
CLIENT: I can show it to you if you like.
THERAPIST: Sure!
CLIENT: I'm not going to read it out loud because I'm entirely too shy.
THERAPIST: Sure. That would be good.
CLIENT: Give me just a second to pull it up. (inaudible) it is so slow. (pause) Ignore the wonky line breaks that my e-mail client inserted.
THERAPIST: Okay, do you want to e-mail it to me or just look at it on your phone?
CLIENT: Just look at it on my phone.
(silence from 00:31:06 to 00:33:35)
It is unsurprisingly about Ashley.
(silence from 00:33:37 to 00:35:09)
So yeah, I have [no writings, overly confessional, bad poetry] (ph) about Ashley which I haven't done since I was about 14.
(pause)
THERAPIST: Apparently you're in love with him.
CLIENT: Yes, very much so. (pause) And it sucks.
(silence from 00:35:41 to 00:36:11)
I guess there are also (inaudible) of my Dad in that poem, of people who don't let other people see what hurts you. Go out into the world and act like [a mission] (ph).
(pause)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) right?
CLIENT: Right.
(pause)
THERAPIST: It seems like a very good thing. (pause) Though I appreciate that I'm very (inaudible). It's got to be terribly painful. [00:37:04]
CLIENT: I can't help but think my life would be so much easier if I were able to just shut off my emotions.
(silence from 00:37:10 to 00:38:01)
THERAPIST: It's terribly painful (inaudible) have a real line (ph) for that.
(silence from 00:38:09 to 00:38:48)
CLIENT: You're smirking.
THERAPIST: I'm smiling. I was thinking of something that (inaudible) said in the 60s or early 70s and it's a little tongue-in-cheek. I would not…I don't mean to apologize for any of this but he said, "Love is the only socially acceptable form of psychosis." (chuckle) I guess I got there by thinking about how you're feeling crazy.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: And I guess I admit I also thought of the quote because sure in a way it is crazy and in a way it isn't. (pause) I hope it doesn't…when I say that it doesn't sound like I'm trying to pathologize.
(silence from 00:39:45 to 00:40:13)
What's on your mind?
(pause)
CLIENT: Oh, just thinking about Lucy, who Ashley introduced me to, she's engaged to Ashley's housemate. There's an e-mail from her on my phone that I haven't read yet but it's probably a response to the short story I posted online this morning. And I was thinking about how I fundamentally view relationships as transactional (ph) and trying to think if I had left commentary on the last couple of poems she posted on her journal.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: I'm making a mental note to make sure I left feedback because heaven forbid relationships not be perfectly balanced (inaudible) become uneven. [00:41:09]
(pause)
THERAPIST: Well there's a bunch there that I think if you submitted that (pause)…you're acutely aware of what it feels like to be on the other side of that line. (pause) And don't want to feel [that way again] (ph). (pause) I don't know. I guess I also wonder if you're giving her (inaudible) she'd be hurt but also frustrated with you if she felt that imbalance. [But I want to sit down with Ashley] (ph) among obviously, other things.
CLIENT: I mean I am frustrated with him. I don't know that I seem mad. (pause) Frustrated is certainly fair.
(pause)
THERAPIST: Why don't we stop for now? And we're on tomorrow morning?
CLIENT: Yeah. [00:42:58]
END TRANSCRIPT
