TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: All right. I am done fussing with things.

THERAPIST: That’s okay.

CLIENT: Sorry it’s been so confusing.

THERAPIST: It’s okay.

CLIENT: Stuff happens.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And I certainly was not going to and would not fire you as a patient. That just isn’t going to happen.

CLIENT: That’s good to know.

THERAPIST: I did wonder like about scheduling stuff. I guess I felt – Look, first of all, let me make it very clear. I don’t like, blame you, feel frustrated. Nothing like that. I mean, sometimes you can’t make it because of your health and sometimes stuff at works comes up that for financial reasons you really need to do. I get it. I sort of did feel a couple times like, I mean, at some point – I mean, because I don’t charge you for cancellations. Like, I sort of have to protect my time a little bit.

CLIENT: No, that makes perfect sense.

THERAPIST: But I don’t know. I didn’t come to any conclusions, and I figured we could talk about it.

CLIENT: Okay. Yeah.

THERAPIST: But to be very clear, I don’t – It doesn’t involve any negative feeling towards you.

CLIENT: I need to find some way to make this so that you don’t have any empty spots, though.

THERAPIST: Well, yeah. Or something. I don’t know. I mean, the thing with your having to cover at work. That was pretty unusual. That doesn’t usually happen. It’s usually more just like, when it’s health stuff.

CLIENT: It’s usually that. And I thought I’d let you know that I’d been pressured to be a good sport about coming It’s only a few hours every week. But it was just one of those things where it just – between the two hours getting there and the two hours getting back, it took for freaking ever. I don’t even really want to do this. I need the money, but I felt really pressured. (crying)

THERAPIST: Absolutely. And you’re worried about things at work.

CLIENT: In general, I just worry a lot about burning bridges by taking that I need to do things and so I get very worried. (crying)

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And I guess it’s very hard. It’s very complicated for me. Because I do have situations. And this goes back to more than just this, really. I don’t like being unreliable, you know. I don’t like having stuff complicate. But I especially don’t like – I have sort an intense fear over not keeping obligations, which is why I make very few of them. So I guess that’s what I’m trying to say. [4:14] it’s hard. I’m going to do my best to do everything and let my work know that I can’t do this anymore on Wednesdays at all. So that won’t be – It will never be a work-related thing anymore. I don’t know of anything else, though.

THERAPIST: I mean, I guess a few different thing. First, at least not in the sense that it’s usually meant. You’re certainly earning any kind of grades with me in any case. Nor do I see you as unreliable. I see you as someone who has someone who has medical stuff, and actually probably works harder to get in here than many people do. It’s just sometimes against sort of insurmountable –

CLIENT: I’ll do my best for certain things. Luckily, hopefully the winter’s over. But just, pre-canceling well-ahead of time. If there’s going to be a big storm, I’ll try and let you know by Saturday or Sunday at least. That way you can give it up to somebody who works in the Yale Square and can, you know, can come in or whatever. [5:27]

THERAPIST: Sure. I don’t want to put you in a position where you’re feeling like, you know, it’s Wednesday midday and you’re realizing you’re just in a tremendous amount of pain, but then you’re feeling guilty because we’ve talked about it, and what do you do? I mean, that’s a shitty position for you.

CLIENT: It’s all the time. I mean, I had to drag myself to work yesterday just because on Monday, we all talked as a group of creative saying that basically, we had this situation where I accidentally triple-booked for a few of the hours. I had no idea what was happening other than incompetence in management. But we all made a secret pact that unless we were dead, we were coming into work so that nobody gets screwed. And I mean, that I totally understood. It wasn’t just like being Debra (sp) we need to make sure you’re – That was definitely a situation we all talked about as a group. [6:34] I just –

THERAPIST: The only alternative I had in mind was something like, where we scheduled week to week. Because I know I have a lot of schedule rearranging, especially I know over the next six weeks or so. So I know I have openings like, late in the day Wednesday and, you know, often mid-morning on Thursday. Stuff like that. But then we wouldn’t have this as a regular spot. We would just kind of schedule as we go. But I’m willing to sort of stick with this for a while and see how it goes. [7:24] And then sort of reevaluate in a month or something like that and see where we’re at. Again, I would think – I don’t have an alternative that I especially like.

CILENT: No, no, no.

THERAPIST: So also, I’m clear that you don’t like the feeling of being unreliable.

CLIENT: I don’t necessarily know if any of this will help any of that. It’s just a long-term global feeling. And it’s one that I just came up with in my head. This was put in my head by other people. And it’s true. It is true that if I were healthy, I’d be extremely flaky and unreliable.

THERAPIST: I see. Right. Like if you had no health problems, but if were sort of maintaining your schedule –

CLIENT: Or, if I had health problems that were more predictable, you know.

THERAPIST: Right. [8:44]

CLIENT: But it’s just not.

THERAPIST: Absolutely. It’s just one of the tragedies of the conditions that you have is that the extent to which you’re functional really behaves in ways you can’t predict.

CLIENT: To some extent, part of – I am very schedule driven as a person. I – when they talk about the gamification of doing something. Like, oh, you get a star for this or that kind of stuff totally works for me. And it’s worked for me since birth. It makes no sense at all. But I am a person that the more I stay onto my standard schedule, the better I do in general. And so I really do like to – I don’t mean to be inflexible about certain things, but some things I’m just like – If I do this – Like, right now I am coming down with what they refer to at work as the sickness which is different than the plague. [9:42] We have very, very imaginative words for the illnesses we get.

And someone asked me, can somebody come and cover me on Friday. I don’t know if I’m getting it or not, but if I wasn’t, I still at that point really can’t do that. I mean, one of the biggest reasons why is ‘cause I know that I need to have – unless they treat it with rest – I’m not talking about treating it with bed rest, but I need two days of – at least a day and a half of non-activity before hitting Sunday. Sunday is such a nightmare in the Microsoft world. Like, it’s just really bad. I need the downtime to be able to do this. So unless it’s a launch or something like that, I really don’t – I don’t try and do that kind of thing. It’s not that I’m trying to be mean, it’s just that –

THERAPIST: No, no. You’ve got to be careful and planful and it’s just –

CLIENT: I have to be.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And you just have constraints that –

CLIENT: And some of them I don’t really wish to disclose to any of them, because it’s like – It becomes first of all, too much information. [10:43] everything about my life is too much information for most people. But it becomes even more so. Since I’ve been trying to get off of most of my medications so that we can have kids. And I think I explained it briefly. But yeah, I’ve been trying to. It’s becoming more and more hard as I’m taking more and more things out of my medication list. Not all of it, because some of it’s going to be vital to it. But all the things that are easy. And so it’s like, yeah now, it’s getting to the point where like, a lot of my safety net’s already in there. That becomes even more complicated, you know. Like yeah, I don’t really want to disclose to them that I’m trying to have a baby and therefore, this is just not, you know. And so in general, it seems like everything in my life is – The biggest reason why I don’t like to talk about my life with other people at work, at the very least – I do occasionally with other people primarily it is because of the fact that if they open up that gate, it’s just way too much information for any human being to handle. [11:59] And I don’t like lying.

So sometimes I come up with simplifications that are actually lies, but they’re not really lies. It’s just truth they can understand if that makes sense. And so – and the biggest reason I don’t really take a big moral stance for it in terms of the lies. One, I just like to be consistent, and two, because it’s freaking exhausting to keep up with the parallel reality if only for – you know what I mean, for that situation? It’s too much to keep track of, you know. (pause) But it’s just, like I said, it’s been a lot, you know. Hell of a lot of fucking drama this month, too, which has not been especially great. I am half tempted to put up signs around my house saying, stop letting your in-laws or whatever that work for work for Mike should stop letting these people pay rent in your brain – live rent free in your brain. Because the information we found out by accident was that Mike’s dad’s grandfather’s memorial is going to be a lot sooner than expected. [13:20] We were not told about it and it is in a place that we can’t get to.

THERAPIST: Wait.

CLIENT: The memorial for him.

THERAPIST: The memorial. Okay, that’s what you said.

CLIENT: It’s not really a funeral. It’s whatever it’s called. But it’s not even that. I mean, it’s – I don’t know. But it’s –

THERAPIST: So wait – you found out by accident when it’s happening?

CLIENT: Yeah. Mike just randomly – people weren’t answering his phone calls. And it’s very easy. Like, Mike’s cousin, who is the only person who’s really forthright just had a new baby which is the reason why it was delayed anyways, was because she had – she had a cesarean and she was not allowed to go anywhere for six weeks or eight weeks. And then it became oh, we need to plan it during this period of time and this timer period because we’re going to have this out in Arizona and this and that. [14:13] And so we’re okay, we can figure this out somehow. We can’t really afford it, but we’ll figure it out. And now it becomes, it’s the end of next month in Missouri which sounds weird, but believe it or not, St. Louis, Missouri is the world’s most expensive and hard to get to flight. There are not very many at all. Alaska Airlines is the airline that flies in there.

It’s an extremely – and she knew that. I mean, they knew that. And Mike’s mother has only lived in places that were very difficult for us to get to, except for Miami, but that wasn’t her fault. That was not her choice list. But every – and things like that. And then they decided to just have it in St. Louis, Missouri. And it’s like, okay, so we don’t really know what the back story is. But they certainly didn’t give us enough time, you know, to do this. And so it’s like, yep. We’re having it now. We get no closure. So that was really shitty.

THERAPIST: That was really shitty.

CLIENT: And then he mentioned to his father, who although his mother and father aren’t married anymore – like he’s had three marriages in the meantime or something like that. [15:19] His – Mike’s father wanted to come to the memorial anyway, because he had a lot of respect for Mike’s grandfather and very strong feelings about him positively. He’s like yeah, St. Louis isn’t something that I can do either. You know, for him it was mostly spending frequent flier miles. But if he had to pay for it, it would be fine. But then, like, this is coming to $1,000 – $1,100 ticket per person. And then, it’s like yeah. You know, I can get to Italy cheaper than that. It’s not even about like that as much as the fact that it’s also – it’s a tremendous amount of layovers.

There’s just no good way to get there from here to there. And on some level, there’s a lot of bitterness because John’s mother has always been – that’s why she supposedly would not ever come visit us or anything like that, because of the expense. [16:14] But she’s engineered that kind of crap before. She lived in Washington in a place not near Seattle, but in an area that was extremely expensive also to get to last time. So this is her thing she does. The inaccessibility is part of the whole façade. So it had a lot to do with that. And the day before my husband’s birthday, he has to deal with the fact that he gets no resolution. So apparently, Mike’s sister – just to make things – Mike’s sister is upset because the kids can’t come now.

Like, that was like the bullshit thing to hear. Not that she can’t come, but her kids can’t come. And it’s like, well, you know, I understand that this is inconvenient for you, but you at least get to show up, you know. And you’ve been out there once already. Pretty much everything involving Mike’s sisters is pretty much in certain ways, if I let myself think about it too long gets me into a mildly – into a mild rage. [17:41] Because she is the most self-important asshole who has convinced other people that she is selfless. And it just kills me. If she were just spoiled and self-centered just normally, it wouldn’t bother me. But the fact that she has gotten everybody in the world hook, line and sinkered into thinking she is a sweet individual and that she’s selfless just kills me. And the world is just out to get her, you know. But I just feel like I’ve got to stop –

THERAPIST: She’s sort of gaslighting everybody?

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, she’s gaslighted everybody. She believes it herself. She believes the world is out to get her. You know, people who have a house free and clear do not get their houses taken away from them – like, were given a house free and clear do not, unless they got themselves in their own situation. Like, end up having situations where their house has been foreclosed on them. [18:39] And something that I know about that I doubt anyone else in the rest of the family knows about is the fact that she’s on the Dallas list of the biggest toll offenders. She has about $60,000 worth of tolls she hasn’t paid.

THERAPIST: Like on the roads?

CLIENT: On the roads.

THERAPIST: Oh, my God.

CLIENT: Yeah. At one point, because we were going down there, I did some Google searches. It sounds weird to be like this. But if we’re put in these situations, I feel like I need to know exactly what I need to know. You know, like in terms of – ‘cause I just don’t like to walk into crap. It’s happened to me more than a few times, being blindsided. And so, I did some Googling and found out that this North Miami Toll Authority publishes their top 1,000 offenders. She’s like, 800 or something which even blows your mind (inaudible due to simultaneous dialogue at 19:37)

THERAPIST: I would have thought she was near the top.

CLIENT: But it’s not like that I mean, the toll road like 90, that’s the only road there is. In Texas, the way it is that there are these things called access roads that go alongside of them. [19:53] But they have lights. They’re like the regular roads would be around here. So you can take that road if you – you can take the access road if you needed to. It’s just less convenient.

THERAPIST: And you have to pay to take the highway?

CLIENT: Yes. And they use a toll tag system just like we have here and all that stuff.

THERAPIST: The EZ Pass things.

CLIENT: Yeah. They’re just called toll tag, but the same concept. It does clear up something, though. At one point, I gave her out toll tag for something, and she gave me back the other one that was actually hers that was ex – ‘cause she didn’t have one that was – it didn’t have any money on it. And I gave her mine. And she accidentally gave me back hers. [20:31] For years, I blamed her. I thought that she actually just took mine and kept running it up. And after one day I have an $800 toll bill or something like that. This was ten years ago, fifteen years ago or something. Something a very long time ago. ‘Cause I gave it to her, because we were going out somewhere so we could take the toll roads.

And then – this is actually knowing how much money she owes in tolls now. It has actually made me realize that she probably actually wasn’t trying to scam me there. She probably actually did – ‘cause I thought to myself, who would go through toll booths if they didn’t actually have – she wouldn’t give me the other one, so she must have known she was taking my stuff, because who would go through the toll booths if you didn’t actually think you had any money on it.

THERAPIST: Now you know.

CLIENT: But years later I’m like, wow. She wasn’t actually trying to steal from me. She’s just been going through these toll things for years anyway. [21:22] So that’s just her kind of MO in these kind of things, you know. She’s very angry about the world, what the world hasn’t given to her. She sees it as Mike got to get a Ph.D. Mike gets to have this. Mike gets to have that. Whereas almost everything that she possess in her life was literally given to her, not earned. But she doesn’t get in her head the idea of what real hard work is.

She goes to a job, 9 to 5. And although my husband doesn’t always go to work 9 to 5, there have been periods of time where extremely dedicated work that she would never ever do that. She’s never pulled an all-nighter for anything but fun, you know. Maybe for a class. But, you know, that kind of thing. She’s never to impress her boss, driven something down to the National Institute of Health so they can make it in on – under the deadline. [22:24] That’s like from Cincinnati – that’s a three-and-a-half-hour drive each way. So, you know, but she sees there are things that people have. And I really – it’s funny ‘cause I can get a certain amount of range in against Mike’s mother. And I do. But she doesn’t have obvious things for me to find out about. But she’s screwed up. She just, you know. Also, nobody thinks about poor Nadine. Nobody thinks about poor Nadine anything. It’s always poor Kerry (sp). Poor Kerry has had such a hard life.

THERAPIST: Wait. Who’s Nadine?

CLIENT: Nadine’s Mike’s mom. Kerry is his sister. And poor Kerry’s totally – and her mom even like, perpetrates this poor Kerry thing. Her life has been so fucking hard. Like, not really. Things are only as hard as she wants them to be. [23:29] And, you know, mind you, I don’t even have the beginning of an idea what it’s like to raise three children, you know, on your own. But I do know that if you want to survive, that you have to have more than – Basically, you have to have – If you have bad things come to you, you have to have some serious survival skills. You don’t have to wait for someone to buy you things, you know. And I’m just a poor rich girl. Remember that. That’s the part that’s hilarious. I’m the poor little rich girl who was raised with more money than sense. All that kind of stuff. I have never been given a car.

Yes, I’ve been, you know, in terms of that kind of thing. Yes, I have been to space camp and yes, I have, you know, spent extensive time traveling and all these other glamourous things, but I’ve never been given very specifically things that are – to make my life easier that I don’t need, I guess. [24:42] I suppose they would give me a car if I wanted one. But, you know, at this point in my life I don’t believe in taking. I’m an adult. Heck, during Victorian times, I’d be elderly. Not Victorian, but, you know. Again, they have this sort of screwed up little thing where they do this. And they tried to do it when Mike’s grandmother died, too.

But I sort of forced them into accepting him out there. That was actually Monterrey back then. And they’re like, first when she had cancer, oh, you don’t need to come – although all the family is gathering around, and although we aren’t saying it. Like, there’s got to be some reason why everyone’s getting together to say goodbye. And then three months later, she’s dead. [25:35] And then, they’re like, oh, Mike, it can’t be – you can’t afford this. And this is right before we got married. And I’m like, you know what, I’m going to find a plane ticket for you. I found a plane ticket. It was a pain in the ass, but it was something I could afford to buy for him and time off and got him out there. You know, this is a common, you know, excluding him.

THERAPIST: Yeah. It sounds a lot like his family, or like his mother.

CLIENT: And it’s – I – all it does is really, really harden my resolve in wanting to have nothing to do with our children. I’ve got a very strong – a lot of people are like, you should leave an open mind. Maybe things will change. I’m like, nope. At this point, I’ve been thought 16 years of marriage, but there’s 20 years in general seeing this bullshit happen. [26:30] And honestly, I think that I would hate them more if things – if they started changing because we had kids, you know. I think that it would not be – I think that if they all of a sudden changed out of nowhere, I would probably get so rage – I could probably – I wouldn’t consider physical violence. I don’t actually think I have it in me ever. But I would get very, very angry. Because it would be like, oh, now that you’ve actually figured out appropriate, you’ve got some value, you know.

So I really feel like Mike really supports me on this. No informing them. The people – the members of the family who hear that we’re having kids at the time of, get told that we don’t want them to know about it, because we don’t want them to accidentally mention anything. They don’t get to know about it. They don’t get to choose names. They don’t ever get to visit. They don’t get pictures. They don’t get dick. Because I don’t want my children to ever – I mean, this kind of level of abuse via neglect stops with us. [27:37] No way, no fucking how of any of our children are ever dealing with that. Because once you start the game, you can’t get out of it. And then, you have to start answering questions, you know.

Like, why is it that because of my behavior – why is it because my behavior acting this way that I have all of a sudden getting the icy cold shoulder from my grandmother. That kind of thing, you know. And nope. No way, no how. Even if we had all girls. No fucking way. And I have very limited beliefs as to whether his father’s family has any contact with our children. Like, very limited beliefs. We’ll see how they behave. They haven’t been especially supportive in any way. They’ve been sort of, whenever we talk about having a family, they sort of treat it in changing the subject. Kind of like, I say something like, I’m planning to start training to run a marathon. As in like, I have this really rational expectation and just because it’s my weird fantasy right now, I’m going to forget about it next time tomorrow.

They have no – They just treat it like it’s a phase we’re going through or something. [29:08] So we’ll see what happens. But I’ve got some serious doubts on that side, too. Just that, and I’m not even sure that I can – not sure be trusted that we do not end up having surprise visits from other people. And it sounds really mean and very isolating now as I’m saying this. But to me, this is the most empowering thing I can do for my kids. You know, and their reality of looking towards having –

THERAPIST: But you see what they did to Mike, and you feel really protective.

CLIENT: It isn’t – At this point, I mean just Mike at this point. Now, I’m starting to slowly see other little bits and pieces of this behavior happening to other male members of the family. Female members, a little bit less so. A lot less so. There’s still some creepy as hell bullshit, but definitely male members of the family. God only knows why me. I’m an outside, but I’m the only female also that’s been treated so badly. [30:12] Possibly because I told her that I don’t subscribe to any of the bullshit that she believes in. I don’t think I ever said it that way, though.

THERAPIST: Maybe ‘cause you’re part of Mike’s world.

CLIENT: I’m part of Mike’s world. I used to be so – also back in the day, my dress and mannerisms were extremely masculine, yet being extremely feminine. I wore guys’ shirts and guys’ jeans, but at the same time I was wearing lip gloss and things like that, because I was in a guy’s world, you know. So I was super skinny so I could get away with all that kind of stuff. I think that kind of, on some level, sort of evoked angry feelings. I don’t know. Who knows? Who knows, indeed, you know. God only knows. But things are related to Mike. You know, what Mike could do was ever okay. [31:16] And it is so important to me to – more than having a place where the baby can sleep is to have a place for the baby to emotionally thrive. You know, I could rearrange stuff so that we can, you know, we can figure out some way to make it happen.

People in other countries where they don’t have two bedroom apartments find places for children to sleep, you know. In Russia it used to be jokingly, you know, they put children in drawers, supposedly. I don’t believe in that entirely. But, you know, pulling out a chest of drawers and using that. At the very least, these things happen. People find ways to make that happen. It’s much more important to me to carve out a space that is healthy. It’s so important for me to get these people out of my head. I was really hoping with everything I had, that we could get this is the last time you’ll ever see these people. Goodbye. You know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I remember that’s where you – I thought I remembered that’s where you thought things were at. [32:36]

CLIENT: I thought we were going to do a last goodbye to Mike’s grandfather who we loved very much and just walk away from it.

THERAPIST: And just be done.

CLIENT: Now we know nothing. And so we get to back to that same freaking limbo. And that’s the thing, that actually at this point – like, we’ve talked about doing a lot of things to set up barriers, which I’m worried that they seem very immature. But they really aren’t. Just to get away from them, you know, because they tend to call out of nowhere. It’s been six years, or you know what I mean, that kind of thing. Or, you get this ridiculous card in the mail saying, this bear likes to nap, just like you. Do you know your son? He doesn’t take naps every, you know. [33:20] And so we’ve discussed the concept of if – not necessary. But if we feel if at some point we want to so, changing our last name to – as a way to break off identity for this. We looked into it. We believe we have to prove that there’s a reason why we’re not running away from anything in particular. And port everything with us in terms of our identify and lives. But, you know, there’s something to be said for a little bit of symbolism, you know. And to me, I’m a very conditionable human being. Part of the reason I do these kinds of things is because I’ve been burned. And not burned like, in little ways. Burned like – I don’t think I’ve told you this story yet. [34:20] Before we got married like, during the couple days beforehand, lots of crap happened around when we got married.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I remember some of it.

CLIENT: This wasn’t before married. This was before Mike graduated from undergrad, that’s right. This was a different thing. My parents and Mike’s parents just got together to do a dinner – simple thing. Get together, dinner the day before graduation kind of thing. A lot of this stuff revolves around the same gears or whatever. And my parents politely asked about Mike’s brother, Brad. And they’re like, he’s in jail right now. He’s – he got caught being AWOL in the military and he’s in a prison in Kansas now. And like – so meanwhile, my parents were attorneys who were relatively shocked. I’m shocked. I didn’t know. It doesn’t surprise me now, but at the time of. All this kind of thing. And so, yep.

And now, this is the awkward conversation we have for the rest of the day, you know. [35:18] And I think that’s part of the big reason why I am a little bit protective of my parents, because of the fact that they don’t need to bear that kind of crap. Another big unfortunate reason why – not that we can afford to at all – but another big reason why adoption is not in the cards, you know, on this side of the ocean is because of the fact that Mike’s brother is still running away from the law from his dealing charge. Yep. And we’ve talked about this idea of –

THERAPIST: That would get in the way of an adoption?

CLIENT: That would very much get in the way of the adoption. We didn’t think it would. But apparently, it would. It’s something we must disclose. It’s his half-brother. There’s like a 15-year gap – or maybe it’s only a ten-year gap, or something like that between ages. We had this whole thing.

THERAPIST: When was the last time you talked to him?

CLIENT: Officially, we talked to him last year, because he showed up. Supposedly his family claims that they don’t know where he is, but it’s amazing that he’s able to come – usually when he feels like it, for important things like when we were in Miami last year. [36:43] So we saw him briefly. But before that, maybe four years. He’s had a lot of drug related charges. And his family is of the belief that he’s waiting to turn himself in, because he’s on methadone. They’re concerned that he’s going to go through withdrawal or something like that. I don’t believe any of this. Honestly, I’ve lived with an addict. (inaudible at 37:09) They believe – that’s one of the things. They enable it by this belief in the addict. I actually did look up, by the way and sent the stuff. I gave it to Mike so he could give it to his father, ‘cause it would never fly if it came from me. That it is considered to be cruel and unusual punishment for anybody that is on methadone maintenance to not take – in terms of jail. They have to. If you were an addict, they have all kinds of – but untreated. Like, if you just came in like, on heroin. That would be a completely different story.

But if you have been actively working with a methadone clinic and have a record of methadone maintenance, it is considered to be cruel and unusual punishment now to treat you for it. [37:54] So in Kentucky, there’s statutes on this whole thing. (inaudible at 38:02) But they’d be like, oh thanks, we’ll pass that along. The thing is, that doesn’t fit in their model of trying to have the excuse. Besides, if Brad ever stopped being a drug addict, they wouldn’t have anyone to kick around and make fun of when he isn’t there. They like having him be that way. I mean, everyone thought it was really funny, ‘cause they couldn’t believe he would be caught dealing drugs that – it wasn’t the drug of choice of his. Really? Just because it’s the fact that you – he likes heroin doesn’t mean that he can’t be dealing cocaine to get money for fucking heroin. That couldn’t be other than historical (inaudible at 38:40).

And so like, I just want out of that. He’s out of it. Mike’s sick of it. You know, he’s first of all, sick of having to make excuses for them. Sick of being treated like a black sheep. Because we’re the black sheep of the family, you know. And we’re just out of it. Especially now that we’re having the thing about kids, you know. [39:04] And it would be easier to make a clean break. I’ve got strong feelings about that. And I’m really glad that we’re sort of on the same page. And it would be more complicated if, you know, if he had feelings. It’s been sort of, as I said, sort of solidified now. We didn’t get the chance to have what we wanted with that closure, but we’re just going to have to take it as closure.

THERAPIST: I would imagine this way you don’t have to see or deal with his family.

CLIENT: True.

THERAPIST: I mean, closure would have been very –

CLIENT: I would have been nice. Same deal with his family. It would be – the financial sting of it is a lot more of a sting when it has to do with the fact that oh yes, and I had – we need to figure out something we can do with our lives so that we can do that scenario, too. It makes it that much harder, too. [40:15] Honestly, we don’t want to get involved in any of this potential jockeying money bullshit, too. We’re not lining up for it. We got everything we needed from him other than his continued love and survival. But it’s been a lot. (pause) I – the only thing I have about feeling about this in terms of feeling – and it’s not even that much of a concern, is the perception that we’re being immature about this. And to be honest, I’m not even sure this is that we’re perceiving from this in terms of this. You know, we’ve put up with this for years. But other than that, I’m not afraid that I’m going to back out of t. I don’t feel afraid from that kind of thing. There may be mitigating circumstances that would change something. We talked about these. These are pretty big mitigating circumstances. They usually involve partial lobotomy of his mother. Like, we’ve actually talked about what are the – at every point in our lives we’ve talked about this. What are the breaking points? What would make things change? And now, we’ve gotten to the point where she has to be lobotomized for us to actually want to have to deal with her. [42:05] So before, it was just shock treatments. And of course, not real. We’re not talking about real actual therapeutic causes. We’re actually talking about like, more – we’re joking about the level of – you know. And –

THERAPIST: Level of change that would need to occur.

CLIENT: We stopped using that, though, once we found out that there are actually members of Mike’s family that have – we stopped making that joke, because there are members of Mike’s family who have undergone ECT. Not close, but he has had uncles. And therefore, that’s no longer a – We decided that we’re going to be sensitive about that. We realize how much it got our feathers ruffled when they were making fun of it. That people actually did. Fuck. We’re not going to do that. That’s wrong. It’s funny like that, broke the habit. We didn’t know. [43:03] But that’s pretty much – I think it’s sort of been on our plate. It’s a lot. That’s a lot. But I’m hoping that things will get better. I truly – I mean, I say that a lot while I’m here. Spring’s coming. At least the environmental aspects of this for me is better. So that’s at least something.

THERAPIST: We need to stop for now.

CLIENT: Are we okay for next week?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Good. Thank you so much.

END TRANSCRIPT