TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: That's good.
CLIENT: Supposed to send us.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But we have no idea how long that's going to take.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Oh well. Yeah. I'm pretty upset with you. I'm sure that comes as a complete surprise. [00:00:49]
So I felt like -I keep thinking about this and thinking about what I'm going to say and I realized at some point this morning that like there's not a right thing for me to say here. Like there's not (pause) one right way for me to approach this that will make it better. But knowing that doesn't keep me from trying to find the right thing to say. I'm trying to find the, you know --
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Magical way to fix everything. I go back and forth between being really angry and hurt and trying to talk myself out of being angry and hurt. Which works about as well as you'd expect it to. [00:02:04]
(very long pause) (breathing hard) I feel betrayed. Yeah, so it feels like it's been a long time getting me to tell you exactly what is going to hurt me the most and then you said it. And then you used that to hurt me. (crying) [00:03:09]
And I know that that's not actually what's going on, but that's the feels like. But -but because (breathing hard) I mean so you said yesterday that you don't -you really don't think it's about you. And I think you're right. (crying) And like I know you're right. But -and it's it's like I never really -I feel really hurt and then I use that to kind of feel that it's not appropriate for me to be hurt. And -(pause) [00:04:04]
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: I'm not saying you (crying) (pause) I've been so proud of myself for being somebody who got out of the abuse. (sniff) I felt really good about that.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: And now I think like this -I just am bringing it with me everywhere I go. (pause) [00:05:00]
(continued very long pause) [00:06:00] (continued pause)
CLIENT: We talked about horror yesterday.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: About wrecking --
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: My life. (pause) [00:07:00]
You know I want to blow up at you and I can't. (pause) Like God forbid I say something unfair. (very long pause) [00:08:00]
(continued long pause) [00:09:00] (continued long pause)
CLIENT: So I tried to get out of what --
THERAPIST: Um-hum.
CLIENT: You're doing, and that's kind of made it worse. (crying) Like -(pause) [00:09:52]
I saw this coming with you. I mean it's not like you were surprising me yesterday. (crying) (pause) And I think what were you just waiting until I was feeble enough to take it to hurt me like this? (pause) (sniff) I just have to prepare. [00:10:45]
THERAPIST: But that is what it's like.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: It's now more important.
CLIENT: I'm sorry?
THERAPIST: And now it's much more important .
CLIENT: Okay. (pause) [00:11:01]
(continued long pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I mean I feel so hurt. (crying) (long pause) [00:11:58]
THERAPIST: And what I did was to be very sort of hurtful in what I said yesterday?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: It's like a sense of how hurtful would be. (very long pause) [00:13:00]
(continued very long pause) [00:14:00]
CLIENT: I can't tell if you're trying to manage it or like manage this conversation.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: (pause) I talk myself into thinking that I am the one at fault for being hurt. (long pause) [00:15:00]
(continued long pause)
THERAPIST: Well, It must feel fairly unsafe to correct you or not. There a lot more -way more, way into me. There's likely about how cruel or destructive it felt that I was. I mean that just seems to me like it would feel like a very dangerous thing to do.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Really?
CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know what you're going to do next.
THERAPIST: Yeah you weren't even sort of getting angry with me, or thinking that it was unfair yesterday. That must mean who knows. [00:16:06]
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (pause) The two things I imagined you doing in response are --
THERAPIST: Um-hum.
CLIENT: Just like shutting down -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And withdrawing. Or explaining to me why it's not appropriate for me to be angry.
THERAPIST: Hum.
CLIENT: Probably is surprising.
THERAPIST: Um-hum.
CLIENT: And -(pause)
THERAPIST: Another thing I'm wondering about is if there's another way I might sort of passed you for was to insist that we went to three times a week starting next week. [00:17:05]
CLIENT: What do you mean?
THERAPIST: What in the hell am I doing? Like --
CLIENT: Yeah
THERAPIST: In other words like (pause) it may be quite unrelated but I wonder if it feels like I'm like -I'm not abandoning you.
CLIENT: I don't that.
THERAPIST: I know the realities are different, but that --
CLIENT: Yeah, they --
THERAPIST: Finish what you're saying.
CLIENT: Really I worry that I am abandoning you.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: But that you will be upset with me.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Um -(pause) [00:18:00]
(continued very long pause) [00:19:00] (continued pause)
CLIENT: Yeah, I should take comfort in that, yeah. (pause) [00:20:00]
(continued long pause)
CLIENT: And I can't stop trying to figure out how you are interpreting what I'm doing that every second. Oh -(big sigh).
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: I think that I feel conscious. (crying)
THERAPIST: Oh. (pause) [00:21:00]
(continued long pause)
THERAPIST: I see that you're, I think really quite stuck and you've been trapped between things that feel like betrayal and anger with me and you're worried I think about how I'd react if you look at me and also just like a sense of out of controlness that will go along with that or something. Like it --
CLIENT: Yeah. [00:21:58]
THERAPIST: Like an uncertainty.
CLIENT: I feel like if I blew up at you, I just that I wouldn't be able to be able to get over it.
THERAPIST: Hum.
CLIENT: Yeah. I don't think that you were unfair and hurting you and I wouldn't be able to let that go. (pause) I wouldn't. (crying) (pause)
THERAPIST: That seems pretty angry to me.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Less so when I'm actually with you then when I leave, but -(pause) [00:23:01]
I don't feel very angry right now. I was pretty angry yesterday. (pause) Um (big sigh) -(pause) It really hurt. It just really, really hurt. (pause)
THERAPIST: Which of the things that I said were the most hurtful?
CLIENT: You said that it felt like, or that I felt like this was an abusive relationship.
THERAPIST: Um-hum. [00:23:58]
CLIENT: That was pretty hurtful. I'm not sure why, but -(pause) I feel like I can't, you know I dated this guy in high school, the last time I saw him well, I saw him at my friend's wedding like a year and a half ago. But before that last time I was him was like ten years ago. Last time I talked to him was ten years ago. (pause) [00:25:00]
(pause) Come on. (sniff) (pause) You know I've gotten pretty good at noticing when I'm trying to control a conversation. I just can't stop doing it. (pause) um -(pause) I don't -I -(sigh) [00:25:58]
I don't want this to be the way I have relationships with new guys. (long pause) I guess one of the things that hurt was that I just told you that I was afraid you were going to say something hurtful. I had just told you. (pause) And that made me sad when you said that then. I don't know. [00:27:05]
THERAPIST: It seemed like you let me know that I had a chance to really hurt you so I took it.
CLIENT: Yeah. (very long pause) [00:28:00]
(continued long pause)
CLIENT: I don't like being afraid around you. I don't like being afraid around here. I feel like my choices are (sniff) to (pause) be on my guard all the time, which I'm not very good at. Or it's to become constantly blindsided. And I don't like that. [00:29:08]
(very long pause) (crying) [00:30:00] (continued long pause)
CLIENT: Okay. (pause) [00:30:47]
THERAPIST: Maybe -It may be part of what so hurtful to you about what I said is that I think it probably carries the implication that it's kind of your fault for being hurt. Like that the responsibility is not on me as I was in a way both saying and sort of showing --
CLIENT: Hum.
THERAPIST: To not hurt you or (pause) take some responsibility for how hurtful the things that I said the things that happened here are to you. [00:32:02]
CLIENT: Yeah. I think that's probably right.
THERAPIST: But rather I imagine it felt like what I said blamed it as your problem in a way that you felt an apology.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: Put it all on you.
CLIENT: Now I don't like myself.
THERAPIST: Um-hum. (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah I mean, in my risk therapy said, I mean --
THERAPIST: Um-hum.
CLIENT: Pete and I were talking the other night about a decent relationships and you know and narratives that blame the victim and -[00:33:01]
THERAPIST: Um-hum.
CLIENT: How do you -how do you know the portion of our responsibility (pause) you know. Like I see myself acting in ways that invite broken other people to abuse me. Like I see myself putting him in my place. [00:33:49]
THERAPIST: Um-hum.
CLIENT: And (pause) I do think it's my fault. I'm not supposed to believe it's my fault. No. And I don't really know what to do. I guess I can't find a way to win. (pause) That would really be a comfortable conversation I can have with like my (chuckling) --
THERAPIST: What is that?
CLIENT: We just shouldn't have talk about it. (chuckling)
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: Because there was no way that he was going to win in that conversation either. (chuckling)
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: I don't even remember what position he took. I just remember being really upset with him.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. [00:34:53]
(very long pause) [00:35:00]
CLIENT: It felt like you were saying that this is a part of all my relationships. Maybe it is but, it hurts.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
(very long pause) [00:36:00]
(continued very long pause) [00:37:00] (continued very long pause) [00:38:00] (continued very long pause) [00:39:00] (continued very long pause) [00:40:00]
THERAPIST: Okay I guess also what I said would add you know, in sort of blaming you would kind of also involve the implication that you really should be able to keep this from happening.
CLIENT: I know. Yeah. Shouldn't I? (pause)
THERAPIST: Well that's your conclusion.
CLIENT: Yeah I know. (pause) It doesn't feel like it's just my conclusion though. [00:41:02]
THERAPIST: It's really what I think too.
CLIENT: It feels like what I imagined it would.
THERAPIST: Oh. (chuckling)
CLIENT: (laughing) It just feels like something that is obvious. (pause)
THERAPIST: Oh. (long pause) [00:42:00]
(continued long pause)
THERAPIST: I mean -(pause) I know I already said it, but like I don't think so.
CLIENT: (laughing)
THERAPIST: I mean if -
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: If that includes the idea that you could have kept your dad from blowing up at you as a kid, or kept Bryan from behaving abusively towards you, or keep me from saying things that sometimes hurt or sometimes are very painful to hear, good luck with that, I mean --
CLIENT: (chuckle) Yeah, I know. It's just what if the next guy's abusive?
THERAPIST: Right. Yeah I mean you do seem that I I said this possibly yesterday to sort of very much have this idea that you should be able to keep those things from happening to you. [00:43:13]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And things like that. (pause)
CLIENT: Sometimes it seems like I don't know how to forgive myself for letting you hurt me.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Right. (pause)
CLIENT: But it's much easier to forgive you then it is to forgive myself.
THERAPIST: Well and I think -I imagine that some of this is planned -thought about getting out of this originally with Bryan was that it got to a point where you did not do that. You know in other words, where you said this is not me. [00:44:02]
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (pause) You know to a certain degree I agree with that.
THERAPIST: I know that.
CLIENT: There's a lot of negotiating to do.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I take his bullshit a lot less then I used to.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: Yeah. But (pause) but I still feel like it's all me.
THERAPIST: Um-hum.
CLIENT: You know. He doesn't --
THERAPIST: We should stop here. [00:44:53]
END TRANSCRIPT
