TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: It's a little wet outside. (Laughs) So well I made them cry. The kids at work. But, that wasn't unexpected. Yeah, it's like it's been this weird thing where it's like both getting harder and I feel better about it at the same time. Like, it's like I'm not new to them anymore. So they're not like on good behavior anymore. Things are harder than they ever were. And Frank was home, the father was home most of the day, like most of the week, actually, which is a lot harder to deal with them when their parents are home because they really want to spend time with their parents. They like me pretty well but I mean they like me pretty well when their parents are home, too, and are much more willing to it's like they both want to hold hands with their dad when we're walking in a parking lot which is like, it's awesome, but it's also like sometimes you can't both hold hands with your dad.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: I feel like there was a brief period in my life where I was not shy and that's gone. Like I really like Frank but it's sort of awkward having him there in some ways like I talk to him and I don't know, it's hard. (Laughs) Yeah, and it's like just a little bit trying to figure out like how much he's going to do and how much I'm going to do. Like, how much I should ask him to do but it's like he's working from home when he's home so I absolutely want him to be able to do that.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: It's just awkward. Just generally awkward.
(Pause): [00:03:04 00:03:24]
CLIENT: I deal with it much better if I just kind of throw up my hands and say, I'm just not that personable and go with it from there, than if I Come to think about it I don't think there was ever actually a time that I wasn't shy. (Laughs) I think I might have made that up. (Laughs)
(Pause): [00:03:55 00:04:19]
CLIENT: I was talking with Gerry today. She just broke up with her boyfriend, which seems like it was a good thing. He was really in love with his idea of her and she was not really in love with him and he was kind of getting weird and controlling and apparently they mostly spent most of their time at her apartment but he thought her neighborhood wasn't safe enough and he would like check to make sure her doors were locked and double locked and like close all her windows and she was like, 'no, you can't do that in my apartment. No.' So she was kind of, she would kind of write some stuff, like was like stuff like that, and she was like 'huh, when I typed that out it sounds really out of line.' It's like yes.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yes it was. But we were just talking about relationships and she, I think, is still having a hard time getting past her previous relationship from before the present one but I don't I remember the guy's face, but I don't remember anything about their relationship anymore. So, it was awkward. And I didn't feel like it was really the right time to say, 'hey, by the way, I don't actually remember Peter, can you explain what happened again?'
(Pause): [00:06:01 00:06:14]
CLIENT: The problem with working with kids is that there's not really an external standard that's good enough for you that I like. I have to work pretty hard to keep from second-guessing myself now.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: You know, because there's like an hour where everything is wonderful and then an hour where they're screaming and you don't know why they're screaming and like (laughs). Like, no you really have to get dressed today. (Laughs) Sorry. Like the oldest one is not a morning person. It's like pulling teeth to get him to get out of bed and put on his clothes and eat his breakfast and he's not hungry in the morning. Well, that's fine but you know, in an hour you're going to be a little crazy person if you don't eat something, so you have to eat something. And then he's like we're going to be late. And I'm like, yes, yes, we're going to be late. (Laughs) I've been trying to get you to get dressed for half an hour. Yes, we're going to be late.
THERAPIST: Does he go to preschool or -
CLIENT: Yeah. And he's just finished. So it will be all three of them this summer and then in the fall he'll start going to kindergarten and the middle child will start going to preschool.
THERAPIST: Where's he going?
CLIENT: I don't know. It's in Burnley. It's like a school the school's only a couple of blocks from their house, which is great, but there's like this great park at the top of a hill like really -
THERAPIST: The park.
CLIENT: Yeah. We go up there like every day. It's really fun.
THERAPIST: (Unclear) School?
CLIENT: Yeah, he goes there. But I just I can't, I don't feel like I'm (unclear).
(Pause): [00:08:35 00:09:25]
THERAPIST: There's a lot in what we were talking about, it seems to me, about like people who are imposing or pushing new boundaries. The kids making you cry, your worrying about intruding on Frank, Gerry's boyfriend kind of imposing on her and in a not very surprising turn of events, it makes me think about your worry about imposing on me, like if you're -
CLIENT: (Unclear) that's not very surprising.
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: Sorry. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: (Laughs) If you're being sort of I think like emotional or too proud about some things that are going on. I guess when you said that you feel like you're never doing well and are always second-guessing yourself working with them. I'm not doubting that at all, but it's more that I wonder if when it happens with the kids and maybe as you're talking now I sort of had the image of you almost like other things that they're doing that are frustrating you or that you're worrying about with them or with yourself or with me. Like, there's always sort of just more than turned into how are you doing? You know, are you doing well enough, like it's like a way of kind of keeping it all in too does that make any sense?
CLIENT: I think so.
THERAPIST: Yeah. It like an evaluation and performance away from it's all like you imagine kind of like trying to manage yourself and probably worry about how your reactions affect me or the kids.
(Pause): [00:12:03 00:12:25]
CLIENT: I don't know.
(Pause): [00:12:24 00:12:52]
CLIENT: I think I should have something to say about that and I'm not sure I really do.
(Pause): [00:12:56 00:14:01]
THERAPIST: Did you have something else you (unclear)?
CLIENT: I was kind of noticing myself like thinking I have to be talking or I have to (Pause) I have to say something intelligible, if not intelligible, then I got nothing. (Laughs) And that's like I'm getting upset about it.
(Pause): [00:14:48 00:15:12]
CLIENT: I feel like I'm under a lot of pressure to manage my emotions and to (unclear) well. I'm sure we talked about this before.
THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible).
CLIENT: That's okay.
THERAPIST: Isn't this the exact time last week when we -
CLIENT: I don't know, yeah. I can't see the clock but it feels like it was about -
THERAPIST: My goodness, I'm sorry.
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: I'm having a counter-transference contact lens issue.
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: I'll have to think about that. Do you know what that means?
CLIENT: Counter-transference?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yes. (Laughs) I think I asked you what it meant. I feel I asked you about transference and counter-transference a little while back.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I' pretty sure I probably looked it up on Wikipedia when I got home.
THERAPIST: It's peculiar. I can't recall the last time that happened and it's happened twice at the same time, come to think about it.
CLIENT: Yeah, I didn't know you wore contacts.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: At other times it never happens. Anyway.
(Pause): [00:16:32 00:16:45]
CLIENT: Yes, I think it makes sense, at least that my feeling like I need to have my shit together extends here also.
(Pause); [00:16:54 00:17:16]
CLIENT: I'm not sure why I'm thinking about that now but I'm worried about the possibility of having to move. James and I talked about it some more over the weekend but I was thinking about road trips with the car and talking about all the stuff you've been avoiding. (Laughs) And you know, yeah, James and I talked this over our best conversations are in cars. It's easy for the combination to be but, you know, so I don't know what's going to happen. You know, he doesn't know what's going to happen. He talks more about moving to the kind of places we would want to be and I think partly I feel like I don't know whether I'm going to stay in Providence after six months from how and so it's like if I I want to be prepared to lose you. But that's ridiculous. That sort of preparation does it actually work? At best, it will just be a self-fulfilling prophecy like I'll say, well I'll stop relying on Chad now so it won't hurt so much when I have to stop relying on him but I'm alrHoffstedery losing you. (Laughs)
(Pause): [00:19:39 00:20:18]
CLIENT: And somehow that seems connected to feeling like I have to have my shit together.
THERAPIST: I can imagine how the idea of losing your shrink is like you have to have your shit together is connected.
CLIENT: Yeah, fair enough.
THERAPIST: I mean maybe for other reasons, but -
(Pause): [00:20:44 00:21:11]
CLIENT: It seems like the more I'm in the world the more my being unwell is I feel it's a punishment of the people around me. It's like I have this job where if I don't go to work, (unclear) can't go to work. And so I have to be well, you know, and I certainly have to be well enough to take care of kids and like something I can take pretty seriously. (Pause) And James I don't know.
(Pause): [00:22:21 00:22:40]
CLIENT: It's like two things pitted against one another. On the one hand I feel like if I get well then he will be done with me. There's that and on the other hand I feel like if I don't get well or if I don't stay well or whatever, you will feel like that's a reflection on you. I'm not sure I can win there. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: Yeah, (inaudible).
(Pause): [00:23:20 00:23:28]
CLIENT: It's funny. All this stuff I'm really, really scared of, but definitely not thinking about at all when I came in today.
(Pause): [00:23:35 00:23:43]
CLIENT: I guess that's probably more surprising to me than to you.
THERAPIST: Part of what you're telling me I think is that you have to keep that stuff at a little more distance and focus on taking care of the people you have to take care of.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And (Pause) I think it's -
(Pause): [00:24:41 00:24:58]
THERAPIST: it's like a pretty frightening prospect that, you know, when you or someone else could be focused on what's going on with you and where you're at, and when things are sort of (inaudible) (Pause) moving up or taking care of from the vantage point of something much more familiar but I think in a way comfortable -
CLIENT: Yeah.
(Pause): [00:25:54 00:26:21]
CLIENT: Yeah, (inaudible).
THERAPIST: Huh?
(Pause): [00:26:23 00:26:46]
CLIENT: But at the same time it gets very (unclear) very quickly to be trying to take care of a lot of people. You know, trying to take care of other people in the way that I used to.
(Pause): [00:27:02 00:27:17]
CLIENT: Which probably should tell me something about the way I used to take care of other people. (Laughs)
(Pause): [00:27:23 00:27:37]
CLIENT: Talking with Mom on her birthday. She liked the scarf, I think. She did the thing where she treated our mental illnesses and psyches as the same. Although in some ways I felt like I couldn't call her on it because she had just been rHoffstedering a book that I gave her like a couple of years ago. I didn't remember giving her the book that I gave her in part because it touched on some stuff with me and I thought might resonate with her as well. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know. It's more like the way she talks about it revealed an underlying attitude that was problematic rather than when she was saying things specifically that I could object to. Maybe I also (unclear) that she isn't anything like me. So I guess I was upset about that.
(Pause): [00:29:20 00:29:27]
CLIENT: It's also weird because the book was, "A Tale of Love and Darkness," which Avi (sp?) gave me. So that was just weird. (Laughs) It's a really good book.
(Pause): [00:29:43 00:30:27]
CLIENT: Gerry was talking about still being in love with this guy that she used to date. His name's Peter.
THERAPIST: So Peter is -
CLIENT: Peter is not the guy she just broke up with. But the guy for which the person she just broke up with was a rebound. (Laughs) And she was saying that she feels like very strange and awkward about it, like it's not real love because Peter is not in love with her anymore but, you know, she says she feels guilty about it, saying, of course, we talked about Liam and (unclear) (Laughing). Like you.
(Pause): [00:31:17 00:31:22]
CLIENT: Mostly just to say that love usually is a good thing and even when it doesn't lHoffsteder to people doing good things, it's still real. I'm not sure where I, oh, right. I was only (unclear) about that because our conversation got me thinking about Avi (sp?). I think the issue in saying she just wanted to like not think about or not talk to Peter in the hope that she would just forget about it and fall in love with somebody else and like would go somewhere else and -
THERAPIST: (inaudible).
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And including (inaudible).
CLIENT: Huh.
THERAPIST: And in thinking about the one she (unclear.
CLIENT: Yeah. I can think of what I sort of want to say, but I didn't say because I felt like it would make the conversation too much about me, was that you without (unclear) at least like he's still there in some ways and still in love with him, but he's not the most important thing anymore.
(Pause): [00:33:07 00:33:11]
CLIENT: Somehow it gets to be okay to have lost somebody.
(Pause): [00:33:17 00:33:48]
CLIENT: Or sort of make it easier the next time around.
(Pause): [00:33:50 00:34:07]
CLIENT: Oh, so this is probably important. (Laughs) Sorry.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Dr. Hoffsteder (sp?) is leaving private practice. (Laughs) She like -
THERAPIST: (inaudible).
CLIENT: I know.
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: (Laughing) No. But I honestly didn't think about it until now.
THERAPIST: (inaudible) happening to you, right? (inaudible).
CLIENT: Yeah, she is taking a position at Swarthmore.
THERAPIST: Oh, that's nice.
CLIENT: Yeah. She's all moved in. (inaudible) about it.
THERAPIST: Cool.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: When's she going?
CLIENT: In July. I think that's going to be okay. I'm sleeping and I'm not on any medication right now and I don't, yeah, I don't want to ask her what she thinks I should do in terms of like how I'm going to need to see a psychiatrist. I really don't want to start seeing somebody. Well, let's try all of them again just to make sure because I didn't see your reaction so (unclear). I can't (unclear) it. But you know, that will be pretty easy. I'll just say I'm going to see somebody else.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: That's -
CLIENT: And I already have a history with you, so (inaudible). You know I think if Dr. Hoffsteder (sp?) (inaudible) six months it would be much harder. But, still.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(Pause): [00:36:21 [00:36:36]
CLIENT: I don't stop being ashamed of relying on Dr. Hoffsteder (sp?) as much as I do.
THERAPIST: I see.
(Pause): [00:36:44 00:37:57]
CLIENT: So in an episode of Buffy season five which is the season where she dies in the end, basically things have gotten horrible and more horrible and more horrible and like her mom dies that season, but like everything terrible basically. And the last season talked about she's talks about the point at which she's, I think she's like putting the book back and she's like, 'that's where I gave up.' When she just had the flash in her mind that just being done. So that still happens to me. I just like you know, it's not all day anymore which is nice. But it's like I don't think I can do this.
(Pause): [00:38:59 00:39:22]
CLIENT: I'm really scared.
(Pause): [00:39:22 00:39:39]
THERAPIST: About what you're (unclear)?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: About moving?
CLIENT: Yeah, about moving or equally scared about not moving because James's not really happy here. I think he'd be a lot happier moving anywhere, but anyplace that wasn't quite so loud. (Laughs) (inaudible). But -
(Pause): [00:40:23 00:41:02]
CLIENT: Yeah, I feel like I'm just about getting back to where I can handle my life. So it's about time for something horrible to happen.
(Pause): [00:41:17 00:41:20]
CLIENT: Which I'm not sure that's actually based on sound experience, but I'm convinced of it. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: Why I think so, because -
(Pause): [00:41:29 00:41:43]
THERAPIST: I think it does. I (unclear) going along with the feeling that you really can't have the thing that you need, and when you feel like you do it means you're going to lose something. That things will change.
(Pause): [00:41:56 00:42:52]
THERAPIST: We're going to stop.
CLIENT: Okay.
END TRANSCRIPT
