TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: (Laughing)
THERAPIST: Assuming I've gotten that stuff from them, what would you like me to do? Do you want me to send you a check for the difference? Do you want me to credit you for next month, or (crosstalk)?
CLIENT: Oh, no. I thought it was that we still... was that...? What a second. I think it's for April, and I don't think we've... is it April or May? I don't think we've paid you for April... I thought it was for a month that we hadn't paid you for yet. But I might be wrong.
THERAPIST: Let's see. I guess it... maybe I misread this, but it says, James's working on our bills with Blue Cross people. [0:00:55] James...
CLIENT: (Chuckling)
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:00:57)
CLIENT: Yeah, that was the subtext.
THERAPIST: (Chuckling) About claims that they've processed but didn't send you a check for.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And then it says that they paid me directly for a bunch of dates in April.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: So I...
CLIENT: Sorry, I got confused.
THERAPIST: That's okay.
CLIENT: So that would mean that you ended up getting overpaid?
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Okay. I mean, I guess then just credit it towards next month, unless it turns out to be too...
THERAPIST: Okay. That's fine, I'm happy to do that, which is a couple of weeks away. I mean, if you'd rather have the money, I can send you a check.
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: Okay, it doesn't matter. Okay. All right. So it's easy for me to (pause) look and see that they did that. They probably sent it since the beginning of this month, because otherwise I suspect I would have caught it. I mean, usually when I go through to make statements...
CLIENT: Yeah, it would have been...
THERAPIST: Then I would have seen the money came in. [0:02:07] I guess I just wanted to make sure that... I mean, you guys will be calling it sounds like anyway. But I want to make sure something like that couldn't happen and not get caught. But I think I would have caught it. It must have come in last week. But I'll double check on it. In any case...
CLIENT: And James would catch it if you didn't.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay, so, all right. So I'll just credit you.
CLIENT: Okay, thanks.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: So I dropped my phone in a puddle on the way over here.
THERAPIST: Oh no.
CLIENT: No, it's (pause) ones that come free with a plan. And I think it's... two years are almost up. We'll probably [just replace it] (ph). So... it was just one of those comic, you see it fall, and you see it coming, and you don't do anything about it. [0:02:56] (Pause) So Sharon (sp?), the youngest one, for... in the last couple of days has had a hard time sleeping for reasons that are still not entirely clear to me.
THERAPIST: Is she nine months or so?
CLIENT: Yeah, she's nine months. I think she's, like, a combination of teething. And her mom leaves breast milk, but we usually run out over the course of the day. And so she's used to taking... going to... having a nap with a feeding. And so it's like, who is this strange person trying to give me formula? Anyway, it's not so clear. But anyway, she screamed for over an hour on Wednesday. And that's not very much fun. [0:03:55] And I knew that that was what happens with babies. And... but still it just really sucked and was very stressful. And then I... it was over eventually. And a couple of hours later I was thinking about it, and I was like, wow. That was so much easier than being depressed (chuckling). I just dealt with it.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: It wasn't fun, but (pause) it was just so much easier, which was a good... (Pause) Which I took as a kind of sign or reminder that the things that make me want to kill myself are mostly coming from me, not from outside myself? [0:05:03] And, when I put it that way, it sounds a little horrible. But, on the other hand, it's... I don't know, it's just kind of reassuring.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: Yeah. I can deal with this. (Pause) And I think...
THERAPIST: I see. You tend to worry more about what life has or might throw at you, but in a way...
CLIENT: It's really not the problem.
THERAPIST: [That's not the hard part] (ph).
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) [0:05:56] I have to... (Pause) I still feel like I need to manage all the things that life does throw at me so that I don't get overwhelmed by them or so that they don't hit the parts of my brain that are trying to kill me...
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: Or hit them too hard. (Pause) Yeah, nannying continues to be a combination of really good and really hard. This week it's kind of my own fault because I ended up staying late on Wednesday, because they were going out to dinner. [0:07:04] And so I said, sure, I can stay until you get back, but which meant that I was there from 8:00 in the morning until 10:30 at night on Wednesday, and then 8:00 in the morning again. And then I ended up staying a couple of hours late yesterday also, because they... Monica's (sp?) sister had her first baby yesterday, and so they were... so they drove to St. Louis last night actually. And so I stayed to help them get in the car.
THERAPIST: I see, yeah.
CLIENT: But so that was just... that I just can't do that again.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: That's not good for me (chuckling).
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. I just didn't have any patience yesterday, and I hate that in myself. [0:07:57] Yeah. It's just... I was just tired when I got there, and [that wasn't any good] (ph). (Pause) James's parents are coming to visit tomorrow for a couple days. We'll see how that is. I think it'll be good. They're pretty... (Pause) I feel comfortable with them. I care about them a lot.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: And I also don't feel like I need to take care of them all the time. (Pause) My mom gave me a tea set for my birthday, which was... actually I collect teapots, so (laughing) I haven't really been collecting them in the last couple of years because we live in a studio. [0:09:02] And so they're not... they don't take up that much room, but they take up space. But it was just really a very sweet and thoughtful thing. And I think I told her about the teapots six months ago, and she filed it away. (inaudible at 0:09:19). It was really nice.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) Yeah, I feel like I'm doing well except for when I worry that I'm really not doing well. [0:09:58] (Chuckling) So I need to get my hair cut. The last time I got a haircut was more than six months ago. I think it was in October. I really need a haircut. And I woke up today and was like, okay, I'm going to get my hair cut. This is what I'm going to do today. And I just couldn't face the idea of having to talk to the stylist. I feel like haircuts are designed to be ordeals for shy people (chuckling), because you can't... you have to make conversation. I don't like making conversation with anybody. I don't... it's so hard. [0:10:56]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: Sometimes it's less agonizing than others, but... so I didn't get my haircut (chuckling). I decided I could skip that. (Pause) We end up... I end up spending a fair amount of time with Frank, who's the husband in the family...
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: Or being in the same house, he...
THERAPIST: Yeah, he works at home?
CLIENT: Yeah, he works from home sometimes. And his hours are odd. Anyway, I spend way more time with him than I was anticipating. [0:11:58] And I think he's a little shy, or... I don't know why, but it's really awkward (chuckling).
THERAPIST: Oh, really?
CLIENT: Yeah. I'm working on it, but it's just really awkward (chuckling). (Pause) Partly because the kids... they like me, but they like their dad a lot more?
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: But he's trying to work from home, and so I...
THERAPIST: No, it's much tougher in a situation like that than when the parents are out.
CLIENT: Yeah. [0:12:57]
THERAPIST: A lot of times I think shy people really don't want to be around when the parents are at home. I mean, not... they [don't mind seeing them] (ph) for five minutes when they do handoff...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But it's a different thing.
CLIENT: Yeah. And it's also a little awkward because part of me also really just wants to hang out with Monica and Frank? They're really great, I would like to be friends with them? But they're my employers, and I'm really awkward also (chuckling).
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: So... actually I think it's getting better. I think it's just...
THERAPIST: Well, I think part of what's hard for you is (pause) not exactly acknowledging how hard it is or how uncomfortable or how awkward but how much you feel responsible and at fault, I think, for that. [0:14:05] I don't mean as opposed to him. I mean, like, you should be able to handle it.
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause)
THERAPIST: And, if you can't (pause), that feels bad for you.
CLIENT: Yeah. I think it wasn't until I was... I feel like it wasn't until I was most of the way through college that I started to realize that other people also found making conversation with people that they didn't know very well excruciating and difficult and had it not go well, and that maybe that didn't actually mean that I was just bad at being a person. [0:15:10]
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: So yeah. I have to... I've had to explicitly remind myself a lot that maybe Frank is also shy and awkward and that is why conversations aren't easy. It's not just me, and also that in the long run that's not really that big of a deal. Not finding it easy to talk to people you don't know is not... it's just not that big of a deal. [0:15:55] (Pause) I say that, but it feels like a big deal.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. It feels like everyone hates me at first... if I can't establish friendly, easy conversation within ten minutes of meeting someone, or five minutes of meeting someone.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: There's kind of just always a feeling of, do I have something on my face? What's wrong here? What am I doing? (Pause) [0:17:01] And I was good at talking with people (inaudible at 0:17:13). But that's a very circumscribed situation. I sense I was good at talking to people because... for the same reasons I was good as an actor. That's not me. That's the role you're playing. That's your job.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause) [0:18:00] [I'm just thinking about] (ph) the way that... in a way, it's like you're saying that dealing with the baby screaming for an hour in some ways is easier...
CLIENT: (Chuckling) It doesn't leave echoes.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (Pause) Something about (inaudible at 0:18:45). I don't know. I don't think it's that it's sort of reality rather than kind of saying it's in your head about how you are. [0:19:01] In fact, it's because [you feel like] (ph) the baby's shrieking at you?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: It's just screaming.
CLIENT: Yeah, I know it's not anything I'm doing...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Or... it's like, well, maybe I could find the one magical thing that she needs at this moment...
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Or wants at this moment and could give it to her. But I don't feel like I'm particularly at fault if I can't. (Pause) [0:20:00] I went to the yarn store today, and it was kind of the situation of, like, I was really awkward in there, trying to talk to those people. And there, I love... it's a space that I love. It's my favorite store in Cambridge, and it's wonderful. But it's awkward, also because I can't afford to buy anything? And so that's awkward. And... (Pause) Or very much. (Pause) [0:21:00] Yeah, I feel like I've gotten to the point where I... it seems easier to become okay with not being polished socially than it is to actually become polished socially (chuckling).
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: [I'm still sort of getting there] (ph) (pause), or feel like I'm polished socially. I have no idea what other people think of me.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: So yesterday, they gave me a ride home because they were going out to drive to St. Louis. [0:21:55] And in the car I was kind of talking with Jackson (sp?) about the day. And Jackson's the five-year-old. And Frank's like, well, how were they today? And I was like, oh, yeah, they were pretty good. It was fine. I was... everyone was a little tired. I was really cranky, but they were fine for the most part. And Jackson was like, you weren't... you didn't seem cranky. I was like, I'm very good at hiding my feelings (laughing).
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: And she said, oh, okay. But that was very surprising to me, because I felt like I was just not in a good mood all day in a way that I expected them to pick up on. (Pause) [That was good] (ph). (Pause) [0:23:00] I think I'm going to have to let go of wanting to do everything right all the time in taking care of kids. But I'm not really sure how to do that. (Pause) [0:24:01] Mostly I'm just glad it's the weekend. (Pause) I feel like I have fewer memories. [0:24:58] Or I find fewer new things that I don't remember. I was cleaning up today and found a small painting that had somehow landed on a table somewhere. I've seen it every day or every other day for the last few months. I just looked, and I finally said, okay, James, where did this come from, because I don't know where it came from. And he said, I think you did it, made it when you were in the hospital. I was like, I'm pretty sure I did not make this. I would have remembered that, maybe. But so now I'm like... it's really ugly (laughing). I don't want it. [0:25:58] If I had made it, I would feel okay because then I could just throw it away and that would be fine. But then what if it has some great sentimental value?
THERAPIST: (Chuckling)
CLIENT: (Laughing) Does something have sentimental value if you can't remember the sentiment or the person?
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But I didn't throw it away. (Pause) I didn't throw it away, but I put it in a closet somewhere. Postponing the issue (inaudible at 0:26:37).
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause) [0:27:01]
CLIENT: I worry a lot about... (Pause) I worry a lot about hurting other people's feelings because of things I don't remember.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (Pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) I mean, I tend to feel like it's my fault that I can't remember things. (Pause) [0:28:00] Yeah, I mean, thinking of social events, it feels like I'm at one of those parties where you know a few people. And you know more people by sight, and there are a lot of people whose names you can't remember. And you have to kind of get through the evening without fucking anything up. But I feel like that's all the time (chuckling), or a lot of the time.
THERAPIST: I imagine, as I often do, that you probably feel that you're, in a way... not about forgetting things that have happened, I don't mean like that. [0:29:03] But I'm thinking of... (Pause) You're worried that you'll get into something that's really painful or really upsetting here, and that that's the kind of way that you could get fucked up, and that the people are... the ones you're more familiar with are sort of the things that feel kind of a little more secure, less worrisome, sort of healthier as you go about the day. [0:29:57] And the ones that you feel like are at more of a distance or are harder to name are the things that are more upsetting, more disturbing, more depressive. And you're worried about getting confronted with one of them, you know what I mean? Or having a kind of very painful exchange whenever you kind of get hit with something like that, which sometimes happens here. I think it seems like you're worrying... I have the impression that you're worrying about that...
CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
THERAPIST: And at the same time (pause) probably also want to be in contact with some of that, too, I think. [0:30:55] I think it can be hard not be, too. It can be hard, too, not to be.
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) Well, you know, the things that I really want to talk about are the things that are difficult but not too painful...
THERAPIST: Uh-huh.
CLIENT: And... (Pause) I mean, this is sort of a... this feels sort of strange to say, but the things that I know I'll survive.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause) [0:32:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. You say that, and I think of... I of course immediately think about James and the extent to which I've been just avoiding talking about the things that are hard with him recently, even though I really need to and want to also. (Pause)
THERAPIST: You mean the kind of things that you're feeling are really hard, or the things between the two of you?
CLIENT: The things between the two of us. [0:33:00]
THERAPIST: Okay. (Pause)
CLIENT: [I know I have to] (ph). (Pause) [0:33:58] Yeah, it sort of feels like... talking here it sort of feels like I could and eventually will stumble into something that's going to really hurt at any second. And when that does happen it's like it's a relief, and it is (inaudible at 0:34:26) anyway.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: But that (pause) doesn't help me not avoid me, even when I'm trying not to avoid them. That's probably too many negatives, but (chuckling) it's like I...
THERAPIST: Yeah, I think the situation is a bit more... is a different... I mean, I understand what you said, that... and I think that (inaudible at 0:34:56) it's probably true, that you said you want to talk about things that are difficult but not too painful. [0:35:02] I believe that. But I think it's probably also true that you really do want to talk about the things that are excruciatingly painful...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Although you also really don't, because they're excruciatingly painful.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: It's a somewhat more impossible... it's an impossible...
CLIENT: Hmm. (Pause) Yeah. And I just... (Pause)
THERAPIST: I also think... (Pause) [0:36:00] A fair amount of that fear has to do with actually the process of talking about those things in this case with me, in other words not just the content of what you'd be talking about, but the potential for getting even more hurt or upset at any moment, my saying something that is even more hurtful or more upsetting and unexpected...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Or you're... that you sort of feel guilty about for saying to me or putting out there on me in some way.
CLIENT: I feel like that's more difficult for me.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) [0:37:00] But maybe I just can't seem to (pause), I don't know, volunteer for that. I can't make myself do it.
THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (Pause) [0:38:01]
CLIENT: Yeah, I feel like... this is sort of a grim analogy, but it feels like the several times when I would burn myself to hurt myself, and you just can't hold your hand there.
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: But snatching back from what's hurting is... you just can't override it... (Pause) [0:39:01] Even though the... (Pause) Even though the effects of the sort of... even though the ultimate effect is a relief. It's a relief to talk about these things here. And in the same way self-injury was a relief. [0:40:02] Even so, it doesn't make it easier. (Pause) Here's what's going on, I don't know what to make of it...
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: Where... I feel like this has happened several times or maybe a bunch of times, where I'll be kind of talking along about things that are difficult but not too painful. And you kind of say, I feel like you're avoiding talking about very difficult things. [0:40:57] And then I sort of feel like, oh, well, now I have to talk about the very difficult things...
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Because that's what Chad wants me to do. (Pause) And I don't... (Pause)
THERAPIST: I may sometimes or often be wrong about this, but it often feels to me like those things are very much in the room?
CLIENT: Mm-hmm. (Pause) [0:41:57]
THERAPIST: So I guess when it feels that way it seems to me important to kind of... there's some way that you're... to the extent that I'm on to something or that it's an accurate perception, there's some way that that's coming across in what you said about the... the thing about the party seemed like a way that... to capture some of that? The other thing is, too-although I can't sort of put them together coherently with the baby crying-the relief I think they are for you is to be on the end of that relationship that you're on rather than the other one.
CLIENT: What do you mean?
THERAPIST: The baby's the one crying.
CLIENT: Oh (laughing).
THERAPIST: And you're the one taking care. [0:42:57]
CLIENT: Hmm.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It is a relief (chuckling).
THERAPIST: There is something as well in the... I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something as well in the... what you're saying about awkwardness and discomfort of talking to people you don't know so well. Maybe the awkwardness there or maybe the... (Pause) Maybe it's like the party-I'm not really sure-where the... sort of the people you don't know well and are trying to talk to are some of the very upset feelings or hurt or (inaudible at 0:43:40). I don't know, that feels like maybe a bit of a stretch. It may be true, but it's still a bit of a stretch.
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause)
THERAPIST: We should stop.
CLIENT: I... [0:43:56]
THERAPIST: Did you have another thought, though?
CLIENT: No, not really.
THERAPIST: Okay, I'll see you on Monday.
END TRANSCRIPT
