TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I don't think so.

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: Whatever that would look like. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, they went to Edinburgh for a family wedding right before I started working for them and I kind of... I don't even know, man. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: I think (inaudible at 00:00:27)

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

(PAUSE) [00:01:00]

CLIENT: I don't really know what to say. I didn't want to get up this morning. I didn't want to get up yesterday morning either. Things (inaudible at 00:01:21) (PAUSE) We don't have air conditioning in our apartment which I think is affecting James more than it is me. So he went to the library for a few hours yesterday. [00:01:59]

You know, it was very funny. He was getting cranky and he was getting (inaudible at 00:02:07) because the both of us were getting cranky. "I don't mind. I'm doing okay." (PAUSE) Yeah, I really don't want to move. I really don't. (PAUSE) The problem is the most difficult things of this nature, I say, "Well, this could happen or it could not happen. And if it does, it's going to be awful. But I don't have much control over it so I'm just not going to think about it." [00:03:11]

But this is not something that I should just not think about. I think there... (PAUSE) It's like I worry about it and then I push it out of my mind. There's not room there for actually considering it.

(PAUSE) [00:04:00]

CLIENT: So the priest in charge at my church has been preaching a lot about like the pace of modern life and how, you know, basically the sky is falling is how I think of the context of it. [00:05:15]

How, you know, social media and cell phone have climbed to make us unable to... You know, (inaudible at 00:05:37) think of, "I'm afraid of technology," and think of someone with that would say, that's basically what it is. I'm not sure that he actually is afraid of technology but he really talks like he is. In case you can't tell, I'm not terribly sympathetic to him. (LAUGHTER) [00:05:59]

I can see what he means but, I mean... Like I stopped using Facebook for a couple of months and that's because I was doing really, really badly and... (PAUSE) I don't know. I'm not even sure where I'm going with this. I just thought of it. So there was this... Do you read (inaudible at 00:06:33)

THERAPIST: No. I think I've seen it.

CLIENT: You've probably seen it. It's got stick figures and is about science usually.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So there's one called "The Pace of Modern Life" which was a series of articles from the 1840's to 1900, talking about how the advent of newspapers had created exactly the same effects that people are freaking out about now. [00:07:01]

I have thought about sending that to him. But I don't know if I want to be that confrontational. (LAUGHTER) (PAUSE) Yeah. I thought I had a point but (inaudible at 00:07:57) [00:07:59]

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: I keep thinking about what we talked about yesterday but I don't know what to say about it. It's sort of a hard conversation for me to just jump back into.

(PAUSE) [00:09:00]

CLIENT: I'm also used to being so busy for so long. Like... (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:09:39) amount of free time I have now since I was in middle school, I think. With the exception of two week chunks where I would just collapse and not do dishes or do anything except for eat for two weeks.

(PAUSE) [00:10:00]

CLIENT: It's still really hard. You know, I think it's... (PAUSE) I think it's good for me to have as much free time as I do. I think it helps and makes it less difficult for my... (PAUSE) That's not the only thing that makes me... (PAUSE) I didn't want to get out of bed yesterday morning and I had nothing to do that day. (LAUGHTER) Like I had to... I had an appointment with you and that was it. A couple of errands that I would like to run but nothing I had to do. [00:11:01]

I had just had that same like... (PAUSE) Basically, you know, I end up shaming myself into getting out of bed because it's so late. Yeah. It was like ten or 10:30 I got up. (PAUSE) Once it hits like eleven, I know I'm going to feel bad about myself even after I get up. So... (LAUGHTER) I might as well just do it now.

(PAUSE) [00:12:00]

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:12:55) time of the day.

(PAUSE) [00:13:00]

(PAUSE) [00:14:00]

THERAPIST: You're struggling with to settle on something to talk about and I think mostly you're worried about sort of there being room for how you feel within you, particularly within me. You're talking about a bunch of things that illustrate how you're feelings. Like James is cranky. It must be the apartment. Or you're so anxious about thinking about moving, you can't actually have a place to think about it. [00:15:03]

You know, it's sort of like you avoid it or you freak out about it. You know, you (inaudible at 00:15:11) Or... Right. Or with your schedule, even with your free time. It sort of helps because it gives you a little more time to feel what you're feeling. But it's still sort of uneasy, I think.

CLIENT: It's still hard to... It gives me room to do things. I'm not sure that it gives me more time to feel what I'm feeling. You know, it's like morning and like late at night that I actually like tend to feel like I'm able to feel as bad as I do and the rest of the day, not so much, or I just don't. [00:16:19]

(inaudible at 00:16:31) which is why I do those other things probably. (LAUGHTER) "I feel awful. I'm going to do this novel." (LAUGHTER)

(PAUSE) [00:17:00]

CLIENT: And that is something I really value about being here.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: I think it's tricky in that at one level I think you know that you're, as much as anywhere, you can sort of have your feelings (inaudible at 00:17:51) But I think, at another level, that's terribly frightening both that you will collapse and that I will too or I'll get mad and push back or something. [00:18:11]

I know you know otherwise. But...

CLIENT: But it's still there.

THERAPIST: I think so. (LAUGHTER) Like is there room in this sort of apartment for your cranky feelings and the two of us?

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) [00:18:57]

Yeah, I sort of have a lot of trouble, you know, saying, "Just because I'm functioning doesn't mean I have to be happy." (LAGUHTER) That's not exactly what I mean. But like... I guess I keep expecting you to say, "Okay, you're better now. Go away." (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: That would be nice because it would be nice to be better. But also terrifying.

(PAUSE) [00:20:00]

CLIENT: You know, that's not really easy to talk with other people about. You know, whether I am doing well or not because, in part, I don't really know. In some ways, this is about as well as I ever do. I'm pretty happy. I'm functioning well (PAUSE) But I feel like (inaudible at 00:20:53) And you'll say, "I don't know about that." (LAUGHTER) So I don't know. [00:21:01]

(PAUSE)

It mostly just feels self-indulgent to let myself feel that. And I guess expecting you to lose patience with me after that. [00:22:05]

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: I feel very tightly balled up a lot of the time. (PAUSE) So then I... Then in some ways, like, I want to feel bad. Then I don't really like that in myself or trust that. [00:23:11]

A, that's weird and B, how could I stop? (PAUSE) You know, but I like (SIGH) seek out (inaudible at 00:23:51) [00:23:57]

THERAPIST: Well, that's maybe why (inaudible at 00:24:01) in touch with what you feel.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I think that's why. I just don't trust that.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: I guess I have an idea of what's going on when it's (inaudible at 00:24:39) what you're talking about at the moment. We were talking about yesterday and maybe a little bit the next day. I think you also like idealize me a bit because...

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) You shock me. (LAUGHTER) Sorry. [00:24:57]

THERAPIST: I'm not as scared or intolerant of your like bad feelings, upset, anger to some extent (inaudible at 00:25:35) to some extent.

CLIENT: Yes.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Yeah. And (PAUSE) there's probably a lot going on there.

(PAUSE) [00:26:00]

THERAPIST: One piece of it is that I think to idealize me about it sort of makes you feel a lit bit together. I mean, if I am super amazing and sort of rare in my ability to tolerate those things, you don't have to feel so bad about how hard it can be for you to have those feelings.

CLIENT: Like if that... If it was a rare quality, it was okay that I didn't have it?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Well, that's also... I think it's makes it okay that other people don't have it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I was just thinking the same thing. So that maybe one other point actually, particularly your parents, I think. [00:27:05]

Yeah. I think that's actually (inaudible at 00:27:17)

CLIENT: Yeah. I think that's a more emotionally charged statement for me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: Yeah. (PAUSE) And it's not even that like...

(PAUSE) [00:28:00]

CLIENT: It's not even so much that I think that you yourself as a person are completely, you know, unflappable about these things. It's more like it's your job not to be scared of these things when I tell you about them.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: It's like you can be that person.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: It's kind of like me here in this role that's remarkable.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And sort of set apart from (inaudible at 00:28:43)

CLIENT: Yeah. I think so. Although, you know, when you say it like that, I just get a little angry. [00:29:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Well, no. I should (inaudible at 00:29:07) (PAUSE) Yeah. Yeah, I'm sort of uncomfortable with that because like idealizing people always gets me into trouble. (LAUGHTER) Like I feel like that's almost never a good thing. (LAUGHTER)

(PAUSE) [00:30:00]

THERAPIST: Are you thinking about teachers (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah. (PAUSE) But, yeah.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: I guess it (inaudible) when you idealize people, they really can take advantage of you. [00:31:01]

CLIENT: That's not how I'm thinking of it. But it sounds about right.

THERAPIST: Like with your mom when she wasn't there for you and kind of covered that over (inaudible at 00:31:31)

CLIENT: He wasn't talking about it and in some ways he shouldn't talk about it because (inaudible) in some ways. Like...

THERAPIST: Oh, he totally could have.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Like, I mean, you know, you're eight and he says, "I know you get so upset when your mom says she's going to be here for the weekend and she's not. I know how much that you want to see her more and I really wish there was some way we could make that happen and I realize you're very upset and angry." [00:32:11]

I don't think that in theory has to sound like... He may have been (inaudible) I don't know. But he also in theory could have actually been talking about it in terms of how it was for you.

CLIENT: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:32:31) (PAUSE) Yeah. [00:32:59]

THERAPIST: I guess I'm making a point there really is that you could (inaudible at 00:33:11) being able to talk to him about it in a way that made it about you rather than in a way that made it about him.

CLIENT: Yeah. Nope. It's just not something that he could have done. It's not something that occurred to me that he could have done or should do.

THERAPIST: Oh.

(PAUSE) [00:34:01]

CLIENT: So I feel like...

(PAUSE) [00:35:00]

CLIENT: I feel like for me to expect you to keep doing what you're doing and to keep not using the faith I have in you against me is so naive as to when you inevitably do, that will make it my fault.

THERAPIST: I see. Like you're walking in a bad neighborhood wearing expensive jewelry. What the hell do you expect?

CLIENT: Yeah. Sort of.

(PAUSE) [00:36:00]

CLIENT: But I don't know how else to be.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: And the main way you express that so far is in your worry that I'll fall in love with you and then, you know, in that way this will become like very much about me in a different way. [00:37:01]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Is that the only way I can sort of take a real interest, have a sustained interest in you, maybe?

CLIENT: I don't know. (PAUSE) I was talking with James about something sort of related to this the other day. [00:38:07]

(inaudible) Mostly these would happen when I was in college, a lot less since I got married. I had a really interesting conversation with somebody or like developing and friendship with somebody who as soon as he found out I had a boyfriend was like gone. It's like, "Wow." I guess it's not the conversation that... You know, I guess... (SIGH) (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:38:57) James had no idea what I was talking about. [00:39:05]

He was kind of like, "Oh, that would be bad." But like it didn't register how bad it was. Like...

THERAPIST: I (inaudible at 00:39;17) it depends, right? Maybe it was somebody who found you attractive and could not care less what you had to say or what you were talking about. But more conceivable is somebody who actually enjoyed the conversation but partly with the hopes of something more. Do you know what I mean?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like it doesn't necessarily mean like they had no interest in you as a human being at all. (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But I don't know. I'm not saying that couldn't happen or doesn't happen.

CLIENT: I know.

THERAPIST: Of course it does. But I could imagine you thinking that was a lot of what it was about. (inaudible) [00:40:03]

CLIENT: I don't know. You know, when Franco and I first started becoming friends, he wanted to date me. That was why he started becoming friends with me. But like he thought I was a cool person and stuck around.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: I see. So it's the sort of taking off that sort of...

CLIENT: Yeah. It's not that like I'm offended by people wanting to date me and then finding out I have a boyfriend. No. That's just how it goes.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: It's like... It's the taking off. It's the like, you know, "If we're not going to hook up, there's no reason for me to be talking to you anymore."

THERAPIST: I see. Yeah. [00:41:01]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:41:29) clear to you than I had thought.

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: Well...

CLIENT: I think I might have just actually not heard what you said.

THERAPIST: Oh. No, I guess I hadn't sort of thought through the part of them taking off really quickly and how that, you know (inaudible at 00:41:57) stuck around and become friends. [00:42:03]

CLIENT: Yeah. (PAUSE) It's funny. That is something that I was really, really worried about with you and telling you about it was really helpful.

THERAPIST: Oh good.

CLIENT: It mostly dissipated. (PAUSE) Or like (inaudible at 00:42:57)

THERAPIST: Oh okay. I didn't know.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:43:05]

THERAPIST: Well, we should stop.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: See you next time.

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