TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: I got your message about the (inaudible at 00:00:09)
CLIENT: Yeah. It was kind of like it was going to be like just way too complicated and expensive and you might have to take like state exams and that doesn’t seem like a good idea. (LAUGHTER) Every state requires the EPP (ph) and then (inaudible at 00:00:25)
THERAPIST: Probably. Yeah.
CLIENT: But like the one that everybody takes.
THERAPIST: Okay. I think I must have taken that one.
CLIENT: (SIGH) Like most of them required some sort of state exam and then they all required like pretty high application fee and... (SIGH) (PAUSE) It... Yeah. And like I... Yeah.
THERAPIST: Alright. Well, I’ll... (inaudible at 00:00:57) if they require like... [00:01:01]
CLIENT: They all require like the degree and then 1500 hours of time...
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: ...supervised which seemed to be about the same everywhere.
THERAPIST: Right. I guess I wondered in the sense of transfers. I took the EPP (ph). I got a million hours of experience. I don’t know whether I would have to do it in their state. That would be a problem. If I could count whatever was done or what I had done in university that’s not a big deal.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: And by a huge fee...
CLIENT: Oh it was like somewhere between like three and six hundred dollars.
THERAPIST: Alright.
CLIENT: Which seemed like a lot to me. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Well, let me... (PAUSE) Was it pretty easy to find out where the information was?
CLIENT: For everywhere except for Virginia, shockingly enough. Yeah.
THERAPIST: Well, again, it’s possible that some of that stuff might be more feasible. [00:02:05]
CLIENT: Thanks. (PAUSE) Yeah. Thank you.
THERAPIST: Sure. (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:02:25)
CLIENT: Yeah. Me too. Thank you for doing that.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Yeah. And it was (inaudible at 00:02:31) because it seems like... So he came back a little early yesterday. He said it did pass the budget which is like, “Okay. I’m never going to do anything for a while.” (LAUGHTER) (inaudible)
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:03:00]
CLIENT: I don’t have to (inaudible at 00:03:01) Yeah. (PAUSE) Although it’s, you know... (PAUSE) My sisters in law, I don’t think we’re ever going to be kindred spirits. I’ve grown to really love and appreciate them and also... They’re just a divide. Like I don’t know. We just don’t have... We don’t think anything alike. (PAUSE) Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:04:00]
CLIENT: Which is hard. You know, especially like the older sister Vivienne is... We actually do have a lot of the same interests in common which is (inaudible) feel really sad whenever we talk about them. She was an English teacher also and like loves literature but (PAUSE) doesn’t love any of the same literature that I do and like... (PAUSE) Yeah. From my perspective, doesn’t think about it terribly analytically. [00:04:57]
Then I feel guilty for thinking that way. But we like talk about the (inaudible at 00:05:11) And Jessica (ph) will not stop giving me advice which I don’t... It just drives me nuts. (PAUSE) You know, in some ways, like she probably should give me advice. At this point, advice about the kids. You know, she’s got a two year old who is hilarious (inaudible at 00:05:55: putting her stuffed giraffe in time out. “And why are you putting Gigi (ph) in time out?” “Because she said bitch.” (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) [00:06:01]
CLIENT: “Do we say bitch? No we don’t. That’s mommy and daddy’s word.” (LAUGHTER) Yeah. Which is I think a pretty good way to deal with swearing and kids, you know, like, “That’s just not your word.” (PAUSE) James and I had a pretty big fight the other night which was good. It helped us talk more about not being where we wanted to be together. [00:07:05]
You know, I think (inaudible at 00:07:15) to be someone who I can talk to anymore which that’s a bad thing. (LAUGHTER) So...
THERAPIST: What do you mean?
CLIENT: Umm... (PAUSE) So from James’ perspective, I think it’s like he doesn’t really talk to me about his work anymore. He hasn’t been talking to me about this, you know, the process of figuring out what to do next very much. And I think... (PAUSE) (SIGH) You know, I think there was a long time where I just really wasn’t able to have a conversation. That’s what it feels like to him. I think he’s worried that... He’s been very in that habit of not bothering me with logistics or not asking me to help deal with logistics. It’s, you know... Or that it will be too much for me. For me I feel like... (SIGH) (PAUSE) I can’t tell whether I am more sensitive than usual or whether James is more dismissive than usual. [00:09:11]
But I feel like when... (PAUSE) And I also can’t tell whether it’s just like I need to be right more than usual or that he’s more vehement than usual in telling me that I’m wrong all the time. But it’s just like... I feel like when I try to talk to him about things that I am worried about like I feel like my feelings end up getting hurt a lot (inaudible)
(PAUSE) [00:10:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:10:09) (SIGH)
(PAUSE) [00:11:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. I guess the summation of our fight would be James saying, “You know, I’m so angry at you because you left me and I’m really glad that you didn’t kill yourself but that’s a pretty tough minimum standard. Like it’s not a great minimum.” And me saying, “You know, I feel like I deserve a medal for not killing myself. So... (LAUGHTER) I’m feeling pretty good about that actually.” [00:12:01]
Yeah... (PAUSE) I’m sort of at the point where I’m thinking, “Well, okay. If he’s going to continue to get angry about me and about this, I need...” (PAUSE) You know, he needs to look for ways I could make it better. [00:13:03]
Because I feel like I’m just doing everything that I can to make things better. I mean, not everything I can but everything I can think of and can handle. (PAUSE) You know, it’s like he’s been very clear, we’ve both been very clear that the way that I can take care of us as a couple right now is to take care of myself and that’s what I’m doing. And (PAUSE) I don’t know what to do. I want that to be enough. (inaudible) some suggestion as to what to do next. [00:14:11]
(PAUSE) [00:15:00]
CLIENT: I don’t think he’s glad to be married to me at this point and I don’t know how to handle that. (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:15:51) certainly thinking and sort of cautiously saying, “We need to get back into marriage counseling.” I’m like, “No, no. This really needs to happen.” (LAUGHTER) [00:15:59]
Like I need to make this happen. (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:16:15)
THERAPIST: I could find you guys a... Is he still seeing Smith (ph)?
CLIENT: Yeah. He is.
THERAPIST: Okay. She’s just more into that community than I am.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So she would probably be... She could probably think of names off the top of her head.
CLIENT: Awesome.
THERAPIST: If you get stuck, let me know and I can...
CLIENT: Yeah. I think... James gets along with her very well. I think it would make him feel more comfortable too.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:16:49)
(PAUSE) [00:17:00]
CLIENT: You know, like (PAUSE) I’m angry at him for (inaudible) It’s hard to hold onto being angry (inaudible)
(PAUSE) [00:18:00]
(PAUSE) [00:19:00]
CLIENT: I’m having a hard time talking to you about this. Which (inaudible) actually talk to you about it. (LAUGHTER) (PAUSE) Yeah I feel like I don’t want to tell you about James’ disappointment and anger with me because you might catch it.
THERAPIST: I see. [00:20:01]
CLIENT: Or you might take my side over his and that might be almost as bad. (PAUSE) We had a conversation earlier that day (PAUSE) about kind of (inaudible at 00:20:39) cost and I was thinking about someone had referred to like their, that people thought that the like, the hypomania coming from bipolar too, thought of it as a pastoral gift. They were like, “Oh, ha, ha. That’s really sad.” I’m like, “I don’t know. I think it might actually be a pastoral gift.”[00:21:09]
THERAPIST: I’m sorry. I’m a little...
CLIENT: Oh, this is like from... This is kind of the set up for this conversation.
THERAPIST: Okay. Somebody was talking about hypomania as the pastoral gift.
CLIENT: Yes. Or they were saying that they did not think that it was a gift or they were like, “No. It’s just bad.” And I was kind of like, “Well, I don’t know. For (inaudible at 00:21:33) like her manic periods are a time of like intense work and where she does really good work. I don’t think it’s worth the price. I think she should get treatment for it. Like I don’t... That doesn’t mean you can’t use the things that come with these horrible things that happen to you.”
THERAPIST: I see. [00:21:59]
CLIENT: James and I kind of talked around that for a while and around like the idea that, you know, you end up paying for pretty much every gift in some way or another. That’s how the world works. And so then like that conversation had been done like the end of the night. It was very late. And I, you know, made some reference to my being (inaudible at 00:22:41) He was like, “Well, every gift comes with a price.” And it really, really hurt my feelings a lot. I’m not sure why it should. Like...
(PAUSE) [00:23:00]
CLIENT: You know, his attitude was, “I’m not going to tell you that things are good when they aren’t good.” My attitude was, “I don’t want you to. I just don’t want you to tell me that things are bad at midnight when I’m about to go to bed and I’ve had a good day.”
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:24:00]
THERAPIST: I guess the thing that I’m sort of thinking of is you’re surprised that his comment hurt or you’re saying you’re not clear why it hurt a lot. [00:25:15]
CLIENT: I know it’s been hard being married to me. I really know that. Like (inaudible at 00:25:47) I would see that. (PAUSE) Maybe I say that I’m surprised or I say that I don’t know why it hurts because I don’t think it ought to. [00:26:09]
I don’t think I should let myself get hurt by it.
(PAUSE) [00:27:00]
CLIENT: It does feel (inaudible at 00:27:51)
(PAUSE) [00:28:00]
(PAUSE) [00:29:00]
CLIENT: (WHISPERING)
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Do you feel that I did catch a little of James’ sort of (inaudible) quality there in asking you a question like that? [00:30:09]
Like I’m saying, “Well, duh.” I mean, not as (inaudible) (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: As though I was telling you you weren’t perceptive enough or not reacting correctly or something like that.
CLIENT: I guess it felt like (inaudible) not reacting correctly or not interpreting correctly.
THERAPIST: I see.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: I feel like...
(PAUSE) [00:31:00]
CLIENT: Or I feel like I should (PAUSE) be okay with having (inaudible t 00:31:25)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) If you know in your head that he’s feeling mixed about being married to you or (inaudible a 00:31:45) because of your depression that if you know those things that his bringing them up shouldn’t hurt or something like that (inaudible at 00:32:05) Something like that? [00:32:07]
CLIENT: Yeah. (PAUSE) I mean, I know he’s not (SIGH) glad to be married to me because I asked him. [00:33:11]
Which I feel like might be where the communication between us is. I was upset with him for answering the question. I’m already upset with him for answering the question.
THERAPIST: I’m sorry. So you muddied the waters because he thought you were upset because he answered the question and the way he answered it upset you.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And you’re saying you’re upset by asking it.
CLIENT: Yeah. But like I asked him it because (inaudible at 00:33:55) because of what he had said.
(CROSSTALK)
THERAPIST: Oh I see. Following that you asked him.
CLIENT: Yeah. [00:34:01]
THERAPIST: Okay. I didn’t get that.
CLIENT: Yeah.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: And your worry is that hearing this exchange between the two of you, I will either like catch contagious some of his particular attitude toward you in this way.
(PAUSE) [00:35:00]
THERAPIST: And I will feel that about you as well. Or that I will take your side and say like, “I can’t believe he said that!”
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Yeah. Something like that.
THERAPIST: Something like that. (PAUSE) And... (PAUSE) Either one, I think, if I were to do either one of those things, I think I would (PAUSE) sort of be like reacting for you a little bit to the situation with him rather than like letting you talk about it. [00:37:09]
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: Okay. (PAUSE) It’s taking me a long time to process things. [00:38:01]
I don’t know. I think it’s... (PAUSE) I think the... It’s a little different. I think the... (PAUSE) Yeah. I think that I’m worrying that you will agree with him and that, you know, be angry and be disappointed with me about the depression. That would just be hard. Like I think that they’re different, coming from different places. Like it’s... I... [00:39:03]
(SIGH) [00:40:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. I think, on the one hand, I very much want to take care of James. So maybe I feel like if you take my side, then I think like I’ve been spoiled to tell you about this. (PAUSE) But then it’s like he’s been angry at me... Or maybe I’m just worried that if I tell you about it, you will show that you have been angry at me before. But, yeah, I guess you’ve got a point. [00:40:17]
THERAPIST: I see. (PAUSE) So, which, in that case... (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:41:53) confirm horrible things you think...
CLIENT: Yeah. (LAUGHTER) [00:42:01]
THERAPIST: Already about yourself. And yet, there’s a sense, I guess it’s sort of (inaudible) feel like I was being sort of critical of James and that would be a cause of your wanting to take care of him.
CLIENT: Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:43:00]
THERAPIST: I don’t think I’m very clear about that. It’s not that I don’t believe you. It’s just that I don’t... I don’t understand it. Like (PAUSE) for the sake of teasing it out, so like, “That’s ridiculous. That’s totally unfair of him.” Then it would feel like I was criticizing him or it would been like I was running him down. So I guess what I’m saying I’m having trouble getting to them... [00:44:03]
CLIENT: I guess I would feel like by telling you about this fight that we had and go into that kind of criticism, I would have betrayed James in some way.
THERAPIST: I get that my criticism of him, that would be sort of devastating.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah I guess so. Yeah.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:44:45)
CLIENT: Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:45:00]
THERAPIST: We should stop.
END TRANSCRIPT
