TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:00:07)
CLIENT: I think so.
THERAPIST: Okay. Thank you.
CLIENT: Yeah. I felt cooler than anywhere in the last three days. So I talked to my sister for a while this morning which is like glad I talked to her but the conversation left me pretty low.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Yeah. It’s like just right after (inaudible at 00:00:41) being alive again.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) And she’s just not doing very well. (PAUSE) And I can’t fix it. [00:00:59]
CLIENT: And I want to fix it and she wants me to fix it and... Or... I don’t know. I think in the last few years we’ve gotten into this pattern where she thinks of me as this like giving really, really good advice. Which, you know, I do think I give pretty good advice. She just doesn’t ever take it and then I don’t know what to do. (LAUGHTER) And then I sort of feel like I’m just being like overbearing or something. It makes me really sad to hear you’re not doing well. You know, I think her mood’s pretty okay still but like she moved out of her apartment and is subletting a place that is like a hellhole and gave (inaudible at 00:02:05) her dog fleas after the first two days and so she is just like, “Well, I’ll just go to (inaudible at 00:02:11) right now. [00:02:15]
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Which they go every year, every two years, a tradition. But... (PAUSE) So (LAUGHTER) I was like, “Well, do you have like a sublease agreement? Like do you have... Like are you... You shouldn’t have to live in some place with fleas.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: “You should be able to tell your landlord.” Like vermin I feel like are really beyond the pale. (LAUGHTER) Like no air conditioning in San Antonio? Okay. Yeah, that sucks. But like I can see how that’s something you just have to suck up. But like fleas? No. You shouldn’t have to deal with.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:02:59]
CLIENT: But she does have to deal with it because she doesn’t have a sublease agreement and she doesn’t even... Like it was just a verbal agreement. Like she did the... She’s subletting it from a friend of hers so... (PAUSE) She like... And I don’t know what to tell her. She doesn’t... It’s only for a month. But like she doesn’t want to live there but she also is clearly not going to say anything to the people that she’s renting it from. So... I don’t know. You know, and luckily it’s San Antonio so it’s like a lot cheaper. Like she’s out only like three hundred dollars as opposed to $1500. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: But...
THERAPIST: As she would be if she (inaudible at 00:03:49)
CLIENT: Yes. You know, I’m like... I say like, “Well, what do you want to do?” She doesn’t know what she wants to do. [00:04:01]
CLIENT: She says, “Well, I want to be a teacher.” Which I think she would be an amazing teacher and I’ve been telling her that for years. And... But... (PAUSE) So she wants to like work towards a teaching certificate but she also wants to be a sports instructor. And so I was like, “Well, you’ve got to pick one. (LAUGHTER) You can’t put all of your resources towards choosing the same time. Like you’ve got to figure out what you want to do and then go for that.” Which is not really what she wanted to her. You know, not like she got in a fight with me. But she kind of said, “Yeah. I think you’re right.” (PAUSE) You know, and the things that she’s worried about are the same things that I’m worried about. I also want to be a teacher and don’t know how to make that happen and I also feel like I’m approaching thirty and really what have I done? [00:05:09]
CLIENT: Like what do I have to show for my adulthood? I feel like I’m not where I want to be at this point. And... I don’t know. I want to make things better for her but I can’t. (PAUSE) So... I already wasn’t feeling terribly well. The last couple of days have not been terribly well. [00:05:57]
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: I guess I feel like (PAUSE) (SIGH) I’m not where I want to be but I sort of have a plan like sort of figuring out how I want to get there and, you know... (SIGH) (PAUSE) And so I... (SIGH) (PAUSE) I guess I feel like I... Talking to Amanda (ph) about all these things that she’s concerned about sort of bled over into me and so now I feel really at my wits end and I don’t know what to do both for her and also for me. (PAUSE) I’m just frustrated with Amanda. Like... [00:06:01]
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: You know, if what you want to do is sports the rest of your life and put all of your resources into sports, that’s great. Do that. You should do that. That sounds great. But that’s going to come at an expense of something else. You know, I guess like (inaudible at 00:07:49)
(PAUSE) [00:08:00]
CLIENT: I’m just worried about her. (PAUSE) And... (PAUSE) It’s not so much that like... I don’t... (SIGH) I don’t feel depressed in my usual way of feeling depressed. It’s not like my mood has been consistently low or even as consistently low as my mood generally is. [00:09:01]
CLIENT: But like the last few days the kind of suicidal thinking has come back. That kind of sucks. (LAUGHTER)
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Like in the weekend? Or...
CLIENT: I’m not sure. (PAUSE) Yeah I guess in the last few days it’s been more noticeable but it has more felt like an uptake than something coming out of nowhere [00:10:09]
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: I don’t want to tell James about it because I feel like he will... That will make him terrified and uncertain and (inaudible at 00:10:43) into turmoil and then he’ll be angry at me. But that also is not really a very good reason not to tell people that. Like...
(PAUSE) [00:11:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:11:01) (WHISPERING)
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Did that (inaudible at 00:11:31)
CLIENT: No, no. (PAUSE) It’s scary.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:12:00]
CLIENT: Because it feels like I’m thinking very clearly during those times and then they kind of pass and I think, “Whoa. That was not... (LAUGHTER) That was not normal people’s thoughts.” (LAUGHTER) But like I don’t know how to tell.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:12:27) think?
CLIENT: It’s like I will be, you know, just doing normal things like thinking, like getting up to heat some water for a cup of tea and I’ll just like... It’s like I just hit a wall. (CRYING) Like I can’t do this.
(PAUSE) [00:13:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:13:05) “Maybe I should just kill myself.” And then I think, “No.” (LAUGHTER) (PAUSE) You know, and then what checks me is some combination of like (PAUSE) some combination of that impulse not being strong enough that I have to act on it and like saying like, “What would the people around me think about that? What would that do to the people around me?” I just get exhausted. Like... It’s like I don’t feel tired until I feel like I’m so tired I can’t bear it. [00:14:07]
CLIENT: It’s just like... It feels like I’m living the way I want to live and with the people I want to be with and, you know, moving forward in good ways until I just get to point where I’m like, “I can’t pretend to be this person anymore.” (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:15:01) [00:15:03]
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: But it’s like the whole... (SIGH) The whole spectrum of the (inaudible at 00:15:31) is fine. I can handle. This is great. Not just like, “I can handle this.” But this is exactly what I want to be and this is unbearably exhausting. Like that’s all gone. Like I just skip from one to the other.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Like changing channels.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: It’s like, “Oh, it’s midnight. I’m pretty tired. Oh, now it’s one. Now I’m really tired. Oh, now it’s two. Now I’m exhausted.” [00:16:03]
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (PAUSE) It’s like (inaudible at 00:16:19) or do what I want to do.
(PAUSE) [00:17:00]
CLIENT: I feel like I’m getting worse at telling people what I need also and like what I want. I’m just finding it harder to be honest. (PAUSE) But...
(PAUSE) [00:18:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know. Maybe it’s just like what I really want it to not have any conflict at all ever. And so like (LAUGHTER) that’s more important than anything else.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: What do you have in mind? [00:18:57]
CLIENT: So James and I (inaudible at 00:19:11) for like board game night and we played a game called Pandemic which is a pretty cool game, actually. It’s a cooperative game where you have a CVC (ph) you’re trying to... Have you heard of this? Okay. It’s a good game. And diseases control exponentially. You’re trying to like stop it. And like it would be... It was like a pretty great game. But playing it with James and (inaudible) was very difficult because both of them... Because it was cooperative which meant we were always like talking about the best thing to do next and I didn’t get to talk very much. And I felt like some of the... A lot I felt like I got dismissed some of the time and... (SIGH) [00:20:03]
CLIENT: I just... (PAUSE) It felt like a game that the two of them were playing rather than that we were playing. (PAUSE) And then of course like, you know, it turned out like one of the things I said, “I really think we need to focus on doing this,” while in the game. And people said, “Well, that’s fine.” Turns out, we should have focused on doing that. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Which was, in some ways was just luck. But it still like, “I said that!” (LAUGHTER) Like I said that was going to be important and now we’re scrambling to try and fix it. And so like... You know, I kind of said, “Let’s do something else now.” [00:21:05]
CLIENT: And they had kind of seen that I was getting stressed out. James kind of at the side at one point said, “Are you okay? Was the game too stressful?” And I’m going, “No, it’s not that game. It was a difficult game to play with you and Franco.” And that was all I said. And like (inaudible at 00:21:27) He didn’t pursue it and so I didn’t explain.
(PAUSE) [00:22:00]
CLIENT: You know, or like last night James snapped at me while we were making dinner, just like being irritable. I just sort of went in the other room and like waited for him to cool down and then he like didn’t bring it up. He just let it go.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:22:53]
CLIENT: It was like, given other motivation, that would be a fine thing to do. Like, you know (PAUSE) James is irritable and he knows this and I know this and sometimes I just let things go. But that wasn’t why I let it go. I let it go because I didn’t feel up to (inaudible at 00:23:15)
THERAPIST: Up to... I see. Yeah. I can (inaudible at 00:23:21)
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: And I just feel myself getting resentful and I hate that. I really hate that. I hate being that person. (PAUSE) But I can’t just say it. I’m too scared.
(PAUSE) [00:24:00]
THERAPIST: I imagine it could be like that as well with talking here about feeling suicidal, though you did a bit.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: Yeah. There’s a real push to say, “Well, it’s pretty much under control, so I really don’t want to go there.” (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: I guess I imagine it’s sort of along the similar line to maybe you weren’t feeling up to it and the other thing feels like (PAUSE) it would be similarly disruptive, in a way, or disturbing in a way as confronting James playing a game or (inaudible at 00:25:15) [00:25:17]
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) so much as...
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:25:37) I don’t really want that. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: In that sense (PAUSE) I guess with that example, it sort of changes what’s going on. Like, if you and I are talking about you going to the hospital, we’re not really doing the same thing. [00:26:05]
CLIENT: Like you are not doing the same thing as I am doing or we’re not doing the same thing as we’re usually doing?
THERAPIST: The second one.
CLIENT: Okay. (inaudible at 00:26:11)
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: Yeah. It’s like crisis management mode. Yeah. It’s not the same thing. (PAUSE) Most of my memory of that is just (inaudible at 00:26:39) (PAUSE) Yeah. (PAUSE) You know, you don’t spook easily which makes you easy to talk to about these things. [00:27:05]
CLIENT: But...
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: It’s something you’re worried about.
CLIENT: Yeah.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Yeah, I also wasn’t clear how well you remember us talking about something like that.
CLIENT: I’m not sure either. You know, it sort of feels like some things are coming back. But...
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:27:47)
CLIENT: Maybe I’m just making them up which is almost the same thing. (PAUSE) Yeah. In some ways, like... [00:28:05]
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: I’m starting to feel like grateful that being suicidal like started to be a problem on top of my other problems because, if it hadn’t, I probably wouldn’t have gotten the help that I have. I probably would have let things continue to suck. In other ways, like it’s pretty awful. It’s like sort of related to the rest of the things that I’m dealing with but it... (SIGH) (PAUSE) I don’t know. Sometimes it’s just like... Sometimes it feels like it’s less related than it might be thought to be. [00:28:59]
CLIENT: So like, in a competitive sense, to the rest of my life, I’m doing pretty well right now. Like in terms... Like historically I remember a lot of times where I’m much, much, much worse. But like I never wanted to kill myself and so I just did much worse. But (PAUSE) I feel like I... (PAUSE) I feel like my threshold for wanting to kill myself was much lower, much, much lower. So that’s just sort of where my mind goes. And that scares people and then they have to do things about it and (PAUSE) then I’m sort of like, “Well, why didn’t anybody pay attention to me, pay this kind of attention to me before like, you know, when I was ten?” [00:30:05]
CLIENT: Why didn’t anybody think it was that serious then? (CRYING) (PAUSE) I don’t know. (PAUSE) I’m sorry. (PAUSE) Right now, I don’t have much in my head other than like, “I don’t want to do this anymore.” [00:31:03]
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: I know I’ll be like that for a while and then I’ll get distracted and then I’ll get back to life.
THERAPIST: Are you saying (inaudible at 00:31:25)
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Yeah.
THERAPIST: Oh okay. (PAUSE) I didn’t know if...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...talking about what you had talked about. But yeah.
CLIENT: No. I mean, it’s like part of it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But it just... (PAUSE) You know. (PAUSE) You know, deciding what shoes to wear is equally exhausting.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:32:00]
CLIENT: And I sort of... I feel like it’s not good enough here.
THERAPIST: Sorry. You feel like...
CLIENT: I feel like (inaudible at 00:32:37) talk about or... (PAUSE) Yeah. (PAUSE) Yeah. (WHISPERING) [00:33:03]
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: You know, I think a couple of days it felt like maybe I was going sort of start (inaudible) into action with me or...
CLIENT: Oh. I’m not worried about that. I mean, you sort of asked me how serious it was. I said, “Not that serious.” And you believed me. There you go. I wouldn’t say it wasn’t serious (inaudible at 00:33:45) because I didn’t want you to swing into action. Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:34:00]
THERAPIST: It’s kind of similarly disturbing to talk about that. I feel like it’s creating conflict to talk about...
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:34:29)
CLIENT: Okay. It feels worse than that.
THERAPIST: Oh okay.
CLIENT: But, you know, I’m pretty (inaudible) (LAUGHTER) (PAUSE) I guess I feel like when I talk to you about that stuff, it implicitly asking you to do something about it and... [00:35:07]
CLIENT: But I don’t really expect you to do anything about it. But... (PAUSE0 It’s like it’s hard to bring up because it’s not something you can fix and like I know it’s not something you can fix. But it’s still... It’s still painful.
THERAPIST: So are you saying it’s kind of shitty for both of us because we’ll both...
CLIENT: Yeah. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: ...be sitting here helpless to do something about how awful you’re feeling?
CLIENT: Yeah. And then I am like disappointed in you. But I feel like I’m just (inaudible at 00:35:47) disappointed in you by bringing it up. (PAUSE) Does that make sense?
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Yes. Although I’m not sure if... [00:36:05]
THERAPIST: Yes. That makes sense.
CLIENT: What?
THERAPIST: Either that or you’re setting yourself up not to be disappointed in me by not bringing it up.
(CROSSTALK)
THERAPIST: If you actually feel that way and know that I can’t help then you’re kind of already... (inaudible at 00:36:35)
CLIENT: A little bit.
THERAPIST: Okay. (inaudible) from being disappointed by not bringing it up. And if I do bring it up, I don’t want to be disappointed when Chad can’t do anything about it which I would like him to do.” So then I think, “Hmm. Is that protecting yourself from disappointment by not bringing it up or like...” (PAUSE) Maybe you’re always disappointed by that. [00:37:15]
THERAPIST: I mean, if you already know that’s true...
CLIENT: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
THERAPIST: Then you’re already disappointed.
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Okay. I get it now.
THERAPIST: Yeah. And it seems a little illogical.
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: You know, a little bit like... Yeah.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: Yeah. You know, logic has no place.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Sorry. It’s okay. (LAUGHTER) (PAUSE) I mean, I guess to be clear about my expectation about logic (inaudible) only we talked not so much recently, although I think it sort of on my thinking of life about how when he comes up here (inaudible at 00:38:11) where...
CLIENT: Why don’t I feel the logical way to feel?
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Or it turns out what you’re feeling doesn’t make sense so what you have to say doesn’t matter.
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Which really...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...I think can be a little bit destructive.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So that was my hesitation. (PAUSE) Although...
(PAUSE) [00:39:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. (PAUSE) I guess... (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:39:51) with you and like everyone. But (LAUGHTER) that (PAUSE) to me, like at this point like wanting to kill myself or wanting to hurt myself is sort of like a normal warning sign on the continuum of well to very bad.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:40:11]
CLIENT: Umm...
THERAPIST: Like a symptom.
CLIENT: Yeah. Nobody else seems to like... It seems to scare other people a lot more than it scares me at this point. Like it scares me a little bit but like, you know, I can’t say to James this thing is going on.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know, I’ve been...
THERAPIST: Like if you were saying, “Honey, I’m having these panic attacks (inaudible at 00:40:45)
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. But since like, like all of the things that usually contribute to suicidality are kind of absent right now, I don’t feel low. I just go from fine to not being able to bear my life anymore. I don’t... Like I don’t quite know where it fits. (PAUSE) You know, it’s like (PAUSE) it’s not like the worse thing anymore. That’s how I know something is starting to be wrong.
THERAPIST: Like Tanya (ph)?
CLIENT: What’s that?
THERAPIST: Like Tanya?
CLIENT: Yes. (LAUGHTER) Which is a strange canary. Like... (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So... (PAUSE) And so I guess I worry that your response or like other people’s response will be disproportionate to what’s actually going on. [00:42:07]
CLIENT: But at the same time I found out people are really, really bad at finding out who is going to commit suicide. So...
THERAPIST: Oh really?
CLIENT: Oh yeah. There was an article in the New York Times about like suicide prevention. Somebody had highlighted the (inaudible at 00:42:35) (LAUGHTER) So... (PAUSE) So like when I think about that, I think, “Well, of course people freak out because they don’t know.”
(PAUSE) [00:43:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible) maybe? (PAUSE) Yeah. But it’s like only when I’m outside of it can I say, “That is a symptom.” When I’m inside of it it is overwhelming which is also a little scary.
THERAPIST: Oh. We need to stop. I’ll see you tomorrow and also Wednesday?
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: Okay.
END TRANSCRIPT
