TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I am pretty beat.

THERAPIST: Oh?

CLIENT: Tutoring (unclear) Saturdays to Fridays. And starting SAT class and June was being ridiculous and unreasonable.

THERAPIST: Who?

CLIENT: June, my (unclear). So this class is supposed to be five weeks. I think after that I'll take time. I stayed up last night to prepare for it for tutoring today and then this morning had breakfast with Geoffrey and then had to tutor again and then I got lost on my way home and it's not (unclear). It's just like 98 to 95 and it's like a 25-minute drive and it took me two hours to get home. Really, I'd never driven in Denver at all so I got like really lost. I was fine on the interstate and as soon as I got off of the bridge I got really, really lost. So yeah. And I also had to like go back and give her her book back. Not the best day.

(Pause): [00:01:43 00:02:07]

THERAPIST:

CLIENT: Breakfast was late and not the best. It was like not very as we were walking back from the diner he started talking about languages and asked like, 'how do you keep the work up?' And I was like, 'oh I don't. It's gone.' And he was like, 'I bet you remember more of it than you think.' And I'm like, 'maybe, but I don't think so.' So you guys are planning to live in Denver for the next couple of years? He was like hitting all the high points. Well, we don't know. We'll see.

(Pause): [00:03:04 00:03:28]

CLIENT: Like I'm really anxious about talking here. It's like everything I think of to say I feel like I'm getting really defensive about what we have talked about the last couple of sessions and I try to derail the defensiveness with the result that I don't have anything to say. (Laughs) Which is not that helpful. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:03:58 00:04:04]

CLIENT: I'm having a hard time like I want to say the right things and as a result I can't think of anything.

(Pause): [00:04:16 00:04:26]

CLIENT: I want to tell you that I've had a tough day but then I worry about whether you'll see that rightly as me being defensive that I don't it's exhausting. Mostly because we've been talking about really hard things and I feel like if I say I've had a hard day today you'll read that as me saying, 'I don't want to talk about hard things today.'

THERAPIST: Ah. I see. (Unclear). Partly, because I guess there's also the implication there that I think you should be talking about hard things.

CLIENT: Yeah. I pretty much take that as a given which like probably the second or the third time that you've pointed that out in a situation like this and I don't ever think of it.

THERAPIST: Like that is where (unclear) right now.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:05:38 00:05:53]

THERAPIST: Well then, let me make a position statement and you can feel free to disbelieve. (Laughs) You should talk about whatever is on your mind and if you don't really want to do that, then whatever you want to talk about.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Among other things I might relate it to things that seem related to me, but it's not an effort to like, at least that I'm consciously aware of to like twist your arm to get you to talk about something.

(Pause): [00:06:54 00:07:06]

CLIENT: I'm going to the beach tomorrow. That'll be exciting. (Laughs) Our friend, Roger, is I think his family is from The Pacific Northwest. We're going out to Catalina. I've been once before as a teenager. I like the boat ride. That's something I always (inaudible).

THERAPIST: I like the boat ride.

CLIENT: I like the boat ride. A little bit of an understatement. I mean my brother's life plan is to live on a boat like we like boats. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:08:11 00:08:28]

CLIENT: I'm sort of it'll be interesting to see whether I freak out more about wearing a bathing suit because I think I'm fat or whether I freak out wearing a bathing suit because I've got scars all over my legs. I'll be interested to see if the scars top the body image anxiety.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: (Laughs) Going to the beach is always a little fraught. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:08:57 00:09:30]

CLIENT: We've sort of said that before that I should talk about what's on my mind. It doesn't really seem to stick. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:09:38 00:10:03]

CLIENT: You know I do want to talk about this (unclear). About how hard it is.

(Pause): [00:10:06 00:10:27]

THERAPIST: (Unclear) that I think that you understand that I actually do like you think that I really do, really think is that you should think about things that are hard to talk about and that it's so important to talk about them.

CLIENT: (Laughs)

THERAPIST: I don't think that's bad. But it really isn't what I'm saying.

CLIENT: (Laughs) I hear you. (Laughs) Yeah, I don't -

THERAPIST: (Unclear) is like free associate. Or if you really don't want to do that, then talk about what you want to talk about. You don't have to do that, but I think there is something going on about why (unclear) about.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think you're right. (Laughs) Yeah. Well, maybe it's like I'm trying to do maybe like free-associating is so hard for me that I want to do anything other than that. (Laughs) I don't know. I feel like today, especially, is like I try to say something and I get so like get distracted by like what would it mean if I said this to the point where I just can't say anything at all. Like I just get lost in it.

THERAPIST: Uh huh, like you kind of I see.

(Pause): [00:11:53 00:12:08]

CLIENT: It's like I feel like I'm trying to protect myself from you seeing things about me that I don't want you to.

THERAPIST: Yes. The day at the beach.

(Pause): [00:12:22 00:13:03]

THERAPIST: I think you've been giving me a kind of harshness or demandingness or something like -

CLIENT: Yes, I think you're right.

THERAPIST: Whether it is that I think you should dig deep and however painful or difficult or that I'm struck by this it's almost like you're making a statement about talking it was expected about the day at the beach. You know, if I can talk about what I want I'll talk about the day at the beach. It should be exciting. Which is sort of proverbially fun and light and easy but you go right to the scars and self-image. And sort of self-consciousness and being seen.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I can't think about anything else. When I think about that trip. Unbelievably I'm trying to look forward to it, but I just can't.

THERAPIST: I see.

(Pause): [00:14:01 00:14:33]

THERAPIST: I guess, I imagine you're (unclear) but that it gets a little confusing when you feel who exactly is going to think what about you. In other words, you know, I think of lot of your worry is about what other people are going to think if they see you at the beach, either about how you look, how you're shaped, or your scars. And I think that sort of spills over to other people who are more judgmental or critical. I mean people do make judgments. I'm not saying that's not true, but -

CLIENT: There are people who are violent. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know?

(Pause): [00:16:00 00:17:10]

CLIENT: I (unclear) you deal with people like they're very busy for me and I think, it's been like five minutes and I haven't said anything. (Laughs) But I -

(Pause): [00:17:24 00:17:30]

CLIENT: I guess what I was thinking is like when I don't say anything, you can't necessarily tell what's going on and there's always a lot going on but I don't -

(Pause): [00:17:42 00:18:09]

THERAPIST: I would feel some like, real out of the loop.

CLIENT: Impatient, I was thinking more.

(Pause): [00:18:15 00:18:33]

CLIENT: (Unclear) e-mails they'll like whisper to each other and I told them I don't like it when you do that. They're like, 'we always tell you.' And I'm like, 'you really don't.' (Laughs) Part of it bothering me is like they're either like plotting something or they're preoccupied and whispering to each other when I'm just, 'eat your fucking food.' Like just a cup of food in you I just need you to eat something. But yeah, a lot of it is I don't like people talking about me. Like very, like it really bothers me. Somehow, I'm not exactly sure how this happened, but I found myself in the position of having to explain to them, like having to explain mental illness to them. It was like one of those my approach is like, answer questions that are asked, but don't elaborate. Like, answer them very simply and they get distracted and talk about something else. So they like they asked me why I came at 9 instead of 8 and I said I had a doctor's appointment. And they said, but you had a doctor's appointment last week. And I said I know I had a doctor's appointment last week, too. And I said I have a doctor's appointment every week and they said why is that? And I said well, before I came to see you guys I was sick for a long time so I go to the doctor so I won't be sick anymore. And (unclear proper name) says, "I know what it is. You aren't eating right." (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: And I said oh, no, not exactly. My mind was sick. And they're like, well that doesn't make any sense. And I said, well, I was sad a lot. And they're like and that was where they were kind of like what? I don't understand and then they got distracted and talked about something else. But it was like a very strange situation to be in. You know, their parents know I had ECT and things like that so like I don't feel it to be a shocker for them. And also I'm not that good about lying to children. I don't believe in it. But I also don't feel good about giving them more than they can deal with.

(Pause): [00:21:53 00:22:07]

CLIENT: But like, 'you're not eating right.' That was my favorite. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: I know (unclear) was like somebody must always be telling them they need to eat so that they can grow up healthy, big and strong.

CLIENT: Yes. And their dad is a doctor.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But no it's a that is like the main thing that their parents' (unclear). Jackson really likes rolls. Selena leaves all of the sugar everywhere. I really understand that. I can't blame her at all. And (unclear proper name) is very preoccupied with like only he says, no, we only get to eat the snack that has sugar in it once a week like no, we're to going to eat both of these. It doesn't mean he doesn't like (unclear) all the time but he really likes it that I ask.

(Pause): [00:23:40 00:23:50]

CLIENT: Is that right?

THERAPIST: Sort of.

CLIENT: (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:23:50 00:24:19]

CLIENT: I think I'm going to be good at teaching the PSAT, but I think I shouldn't do it just because it's increasingly difficult to disguise my contempt for the topic.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I guess I can imagine you having a very difficult time doing something sort of (unclear) anyway.

CLIENT: You know, it's just us. The girl that I coached in SAT English test is in the SAT class. I feel like with her one of my primary jobs was to run interference for her parents and be like, 'no, she needs to stop studying and sleep now.' Like tell her in different words, obviously, that, 'you're right. Your parents should chill the fuck out.' (Laughs) Like, you'll be fine.

THERAPIST: And these are mostly young kids?

CLIENT: Yeah. Actually, a couple of the fifth graders say it takes them a half hour to get to the test center so I'm not sure -

THERAPIST: Yeah, (inaudible).

CLIENT: Yeah, (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:25:51 00:26:07]

CLIENT: You know, if they were like, when it comes to something real, I like, 'why yes, I do want you to be writing research papers when you're 14 or 15. Yeah, let's learn how to do that. Let's talk about Beowulf, let's talk about middle English. Let's be hardcore. Like who the fuck cares about the SATs. Lots of people, is the problem. But like that's a really big problem for me. Like a huge problem.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:26:44 00:27:21]

CLIENT: Yeah, I think here is the thing that is going to be it will serve these kids well to know the system. So I can do that.

(Pause): [00:27:42 00:27:47]

THERAPIST: (Unclear) the test.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:27:49 00:28:18]

CLIENT: On Wednesday on the way home from work I stopped and got a bottle of wine and called James to say like can I get anything else from the store while I'm there. And he was like it was like a weird, weird conversation. And at some point during the evening he mentioned that in his memory the last time I went out and bought alcohol myself for myself I was planning to kill myself. I was like Oh! (Laughs) (Unclear). No, I just don't want to kill the kids. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs) I've seen (unclear) impression, but I remember seeing a label, "Mommy's Time Out" on a bottle of white wine.

CLIENT: It's really nice to be able to go home at the end of the day, to be honest. There is a somebody was passing around an article on Facebook about like a survey that 53% of parents say that they use their television as a babysitter. Like who would have thought that was a problem? (Laughs) Like, I don't know. Like I really want to have kids. Like, not right now. Like I can sort of feel it coming a long way off and not actually that far off and it's scary for me. Like I don't know if we'll be able to.

(Pause): [00:30:31 00:31:00]

CLIENT: And you know, it's also a little terrifying like if I love these kids so much, what are my kids going to be like? (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:31:12 00:31:30]

CLIENT: (Unclear proper name) has discovered mobility. Especially -

THERAPIST: What age?

CLIENT: She's like 10 months.

THERAPIST: 10 months?

CLIENT: But now she's crawling and she's like crawling fast and her favorite thing to do is like walk with somebody holding onto her but she doesn't seem to quite realize that she can't actually stand up on her own and she'll be like standing and then she'll just let go of my hands while she's leaning against me and I'm like, no, this is a terrible idea. Like I can't just let you fall onto the wood floor at the same time you don't want me to be holding you.

(Pause): [00:32:13 00:33:26]

CLIENT: It was kind of like, it was one of those times it wasn't them, it was me like I hadn't got quite enough sleep or quite enough caffeine or quite enough time for myself and didn't have patience. And I just hate that. So you just sort of like wake up like I've been crying all day and just been (unclear) and I don't like that. I'm apparently really good at not being grumpy. Because I've said, 'I was kind of in a bad mood today,' and they were like, 'no you're not.' And I was kind of, 'well thanks.' Good to know.

(Pause): [00:34:29 00:34:46]

THERAPIST: So are you also telling me you've been a little grumpy? Are you trying not to be grumpy?

CLIENT: I'm really sad. Yeah. Like I'm not angry, I'm just like sad.

(Pause): [00:35:11 00:35:16]

CLIENT: And yeah I guess I'm trying not to.

(Pause): [00:35:18 00:35:37]

CLIENT: It's like I'm tired but it feels like I'm tired and sad and like I've been stretched too thin but it can't matter that much because I can keep going. I did. I finished my work last night. I did get up and tutor today. I am here. Like I'm going to the beach tomorrow. It'll be fine.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I hope.

(Pause): [00:36:14 00:36:19]

CLIENT: But I just want to cry all the time. Or like from minute to minute, not from day to day.

(Pause): [00:36:33 00:36:42]

CLIENT: I'd hoped that I could take a nap this afternoon but I drove around Denver instead. Seriously, I got all over.

THERAPIST: Where were you -?

CLIENT: I was really bad.

THERAPIST: When you got off the bridge off the pike in Andover?

CLIENT: First I got stuck going the wrong direction around 9, and like could not figure out how to turn around.

THERAPIST: Going west?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Away from town.

CLIENT: Yes. There are two different places on route 9 like on the right hand side of the road. As it turns out, pretty much the only place you can turn around for about five miles. (Laughs). And there was like, I could have gotten off, like taken an exit to go the other direction but I didn't see it in time, I'd been there before, and traffic is bad and then getting back into Andover, I was so close to being where I knew and then I mistook a landmark and I thought I was in a different part of town than I was and I ended up in fucking like, I ended going the wrong direction in (unclear) and way, like embarrassingly long like I really should know. I went like past MIT, across the bridge and then I was like, this is not right but I can't turn around. Like into Back Bay, turned around then I ended up in (proper name). I still don't how that happened.

THERAPIST: Wow. Like -

CLIENT: Yeah. At which point I called James and was like this was not right. So he talked me back.

THERAPIST: Sounds like the southern part.

CLIENT: (Laughs).

THERAPIST: And going into the bridge.

CLIENT: I did manage to get downtown but not for the lack of trying.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Oh gosh. And then again I was like, I really need to get home. It took me a half an hour to get there and two hours to get back. I was like it's fine, it's fine, it's fine and then I'm almost there, almost there, oh no. I'm really not and I'm just yeah. Not uncommon for me to just get hopelessly lost while driving. I have to drive the city before I know how to get around in it. Like I have to have been there before and walking doesn't count, busses don't count. Also riding in the car with somebody else driving doesn't count. I'm like, I just can't. It's just not the same.

THERAPIST: (inaudible).

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:39:59 00:40:19]

CLIENT: So I guess I'm cranky about that.

THERAPIST: Um hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm just upset with myself I think.

(Pause): [00:40:25 00:40:38]

CLIENT: (Whispers) Why can't I do that? (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:40:41 00:41:25]

CLIENT: I drove back through the Square and it was like an area that I didn't remember having been to, but then it was familiar but I couldn't place it at all. I hate that.

(Pause): [00:41:42 00:42:20]

THERAPIST: Before we stop now, I may have to like cancel and reschedule next Friday but I should know that sometime over the weekend by Monday.

CLIENT: Okay.

END TRANSCRIPT