TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Hi.
THERAPIST: Hi.
CLIENT: So, the good news was that sleeping on my own (inaudible) worked really well on my (inaudible), but didn’t work very well last night. (laughs)
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: So, I think I got like maybe three or four hours of sleep. I don’t know. I came back and slept for an hour and then I had to go tutoring.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: So I’m a little sleepy. It was really, really good to see Candace.
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: Yeah. I mean what we usually do is just eat a lot and talk a lot. She’s getting ready to move in with her boyfriend, Pete. I think she’s nervous about that. Her parents are really not okay with that, but [what can you do] (ph)? [00:01:19]
THERAPIST: Because they’re not married or because they don’t like him?
CLIENT: Because they’re not married.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: They’re religious. She’s very religious.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And, you know, her perspective is, you know, at some point you have to trust that you’re trying to make a moral choice and (inaudible at 00:01:57). I like him a lot, which is good. I sort of, we got to spend a lot of time with him this weekend, which I liked. I had met him but I hadn’t really hung out with him.
THERAPIST: That’s nice.
CLIENT: Yeah. He’s pretty great. (pause) They bicker a lot, which is like, I think it bothers Candace but I also honestly can’t imagine her in a relationship where she didn’t bicker a lot.
THERAPIST: (laughs) Okay.
CLIENT: (laughs) I think it’s the sort of thing of like it didn’t bother her until they were going to move in together. (pause) He does not really seem bothered by it at all. It’s just like, “Wait, this isn’t fun for you all the time?” (laughs) So, I don’t know. [00:03:07]
(long pause)
It’s been pretty up and down. I almost missed my bus (ph) because I Well I didn’t actually almost miss my bus, I just was like twelve minutes later than I meant to be. I was supposed to leave fifteen minutes earlier. But I was packing and kind of tired and stressed out and not doing very well and I, in the process of looking for my camera charger, which still hasn’t (inaudible at 00:04:15), I found a letter of recommendation that my advisor at William & Mary had written for my PhD application.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And I read it, which was just a really, really bad idea.
THERAPIST: Mm hm. This is not (inaudible at 00:04:32).
CLIENT: No. Yeah, this is [Tiffany], she teaches (inaudible). She said I might be the best graduate student that she had in thirty years. And I definitely wanted a [top tier degree] (ph). (inaudible). I just couldn’t stop crying.
It was interesting talking with Candace. So Candace didn’t do a PhD until after William & Mary and sort of all of her advisors were like, “You should really do this.” You know, one of them said, “Yeah, go do something else but come back for a PhD before too long because it’s really like this stuff doesn’t stay in your head that long.” [00:05:33]
And she had sort of like been talking about applying but kind of keeps pushing it back for a year. But she also is just so, like she just has no patience for the pretention of graduate students, just none whatsoever. (laughs) She’s like, “Why can’t you use normal words?” (laughs)
So I was asking her about And it was like, “I wanted to read to you about (inaudible 00:06:13) You know, and she was kind of naming a couple of things and pulled out her notes from the class that she had taken on it to kind of look for something. But she was reading titles of response papers that other students had written about. And she was like, “Give me a fucking break.” (laughs) You know what I mean? (laughs)
I don’t know how much of that is But I think it’s, honestly, I think it’s worse in theology than it is in Bible in terms of, you know, I think people are like talking about human salvation. And so they take themselves very, very seriously. Bible people don’t take themselves that seriously. I don’t know though if it just bothers me less than it does her. Like it’s easier for me to get caught up in [“this is good.”] (ph) [00:07:16]
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: This is (inaudible) dialect of academic speak. And it’s only when I leave and come back that I realize like, “Oh, yeah, this is a little ridiculous.”
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: But, you know, it’s like (pause) We were roommates when we were doing our masters and Candace is one of the brightest people that I know.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: In terms of her ability to craft an argument and deal with text, like one of the most fitted for academic work that I can think of.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: And that’s just not where I (inaudible at 00:08:22). And, yeah, I think both of us are sad about that in different ways. I think for her, I think she is really sad about the fact that nobody really listens to what she has to say because she doesn’t have a PhD.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And I’m just really sad about not doing that anymore. You know, I think I loved it, academics itself, in a way that she did not.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Not so much that I loved the talking and writing about ideas more than she did, but the life is one that I think she had less patience for it than I did. I don’t know, maybe I’m just being nostalgic because I don’t really remember having to have a bitch fest with her about this at least once a week. (laughs) So, I don’t know. [00:09:39]
(pause) And I’m just so sad about that and it doesn’t go away.
(very long pause) [00:11:10]
CLIENT: You know, but then I was kind [reeling from the that] (ph). You know, you just kind of put it down and put it away and [keep going and she told me I could come back.] (ph)
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
(long pause)
CLIENT: Yeah, it’s sort of like I sort of don’t want to talk about it other than how sad I am. But I also don’t really have any way Like I feel like I don’t have anything else to say about it right now. So, I’m sort of stuck. (laughs) [00:12:24]
(long pause)
THERAPIST: I think you feel sad because she saw something really, really good, really exceptional in you that really mattered to you.
CLIENT: [That’s it?] (ph) (laughs) Hm.
(long pause) [00:13:51]
CLIENT: I feel like I’m sad because -
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I have not lived up to my potential (ph). (pause) I feel like when I was applying and I wanted to kind of [talk about] (ph) my application, she basically scolded me for having gotten an A minus in Greek. She was like, “I could not understand why you got an A minus in Greek. There was no reason for you not to better on your quizzes. Like, what was up with that?”
THERAPIST: Does she teach Greek.
CLIENT: Yeah. I did take a class with her. And, you know, I thought A minus was pretty good. (laughs) Greek is hard. In college I was a consistent B plus. It’s hard. [00:15:00]
THERAPIST: [It’s hard.] (ph)
CLIENT: Yeah. I just don’t want to work that hard. You can’t be lazy with Greek. (inaudible at 00:15:12) (pause) Yeah, I was like I (pause) It hadn’t occurred to me that I should have done better or that I could have better in that. Yeah.
THERAPIST: Sorry, but [I’ve got “It’s all Greek to me” jokes in my head.] (ph)
CLIENT: (laughs)
THERAPIST: Like thinking you could do better.
CLIENT: Hm.
THERAPIST: [Do you understand?] (ph)
CLIENT: No, I’m really sorry. [00:16:19]
THERAPIST: Okay. Well the thought was like, you know, that’s what felt foreign.
CLIENT: Oh yeah. Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: Like that kind of thing.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Mm hm. (pause) Yeah, I don’t [want to do that.] (ph) (pause) It’s like I read the letter and I sort of recognized myself in what she was saying. [00:18:00]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: But then like, “Oh, yeah, it really doesn’t scare me when third year doctoral students try to boss me around. No, of course not.” I recognized myself in some ways. And then I got to the end or to kind of the summing up and don’t recognize myself at all. It’s like that doesn’t make sense to me. (pause) It just feels like I had the chance to be that person but now I’m not. [00:18:56]
(long pause)
CLIENT: Candace is a very loving person. Like she says nice things to me about me a lot and I don’t really know what to do with that at all. (laughs) It makes me really uncomfortable. You know, I was like, “Wear a new dress maybe because it’s like ninety degrees in New Hampshire.” And so everybody, like all of her friends that we met up with she told them Mary made her dress. [00:20:06]
THERAPIST: [Very nice.] (ph)
Yeah. It’s nice and it feels good but also I feel really uncomfortable. (pause) It was also strange because I had been to her apartment before and met her roommates before, and I don’t remember any of that. I mean it’s like completely gone. Yeah.
(long pause) [00:21:25]
Yeah, like having these people that I respect and admire and love so much believe these great things of me, it makes me feel like I’m being pulled apart.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: Yeah, it’s just unbearable.
(long pause) [00:23:31]
CLIENT: [I need to be able to talk to people, really talk about it. I really don’t have these conversations very much. You know?] (ph)
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: And it’s the sort of thing that, you know, I sort of realize how much I miss it when I go back and talk to her. Like how much that it is a gap in my life.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And that somehow is all the pieces of not being in grad school. Like I feel like I just miss using my brain.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: But I don’t seem to be able to use my brain on my own. Like I don’t get very far working. [I fall asleep.] (ph) [00:24:45]
(long pause) [00:25:58]
CLIENT: Candace is very angry with Kirsten, my old roommate. On my behalf.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And very, like it’s funny talk to her about it because it didn’t occur to me to be upset. She just feels like Kirsten was very self-absorbed and not at all supportive when I was crashing and burning in front of her.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I’m like, “Well, that’s Kirsten.” She just doesn’t have it in her to be supportive of people who are going through crises [in our lives.] (ph) That’s as far as I can tell. I mean that’s a cruel thing to say, but I did not ever expect her to support me. But she was very angry. She and Kirsten also used to be roommates so I think there’s like And they’re like, they don’t really (inaudible at 00:27:08) one another. (sounds like sniffles maybe)
(pause) You know, I think it was also just I mean, what I [what I saw was] (ph) there wasn’t anything anybody could do.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: You know, Kirsten, that’s hard for her to deal with.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: And things could have been so bad for me and there was just nothing to be done about it. You know, it’s pretty hard for me to deal with too, but I’ve been practicing for a while. [00:28:09]
THERAPIST: Hah. Right.
CLIENT: Do you want to take [this tissue] (ph)?
THERAPIST: No.
CLIENT: (laughs) Okay.
THERAPIST: Not yet, anyway. But thank you though.
CLIENT: Okay. (pause) I feel like Candace’s [sort of pointing] (ph) at Kirsten and Kirsten’s kind of group of friends.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Because even though they do the same work, like they both do [feminist] (ph) theology, and so I think it’s, you know, Candace sort of points at Kirsten and her colleagues as a -
THERAPIST: I’m sorry. Kirsten is in grad school?
CLIENT: Kirsten is at, yeah, at University of Maryland. [00:29:30]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: And, you know, she is the one that, you know, it’s like, “Hey, let’s go get a drink to split this fifteen dollar check that we have.” And she didn’t e-mail for a month and then she’s like, “You know, I’m really busy like studying for [everything] (ph) now.” This was like maybe some time in July.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And so I took that as code for, “Let’s not actually be friends,” and I’m pretty okay with that.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But I think Candace is kind of looking at the kind of self-absorption and pretention and kind of saying, “I don’t want to be there.” And I don’t know how much that is like she really wants to go back to grad school and how much it is that she really doesn’t.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I don’t know. [It’s probably a little of both.] (ph) But I think about Candace (inaudible 00:30:22) I think about myself.
THERAPIST: Hm.
(long pause)
THERAPIST: But it seems like it’s really helpful to have both the letter and Candace to kind of sort of bring out your thinking about all this.
CLIENT: How do you mean?
THERAPIST: That without sort of people from the outside, in a way, like instigating these conversations about these things that are good about you or (inaudible at 00:31:44). And also like (inaudible). It seems hard for you to kind of, you know, talk about some of it here.
CLIENT: Hm.
THERAPIST: I mean if I I wouldn’t do this exactly, but if I sort of asked you about it, talked you and academia or something like that -
CLIENT: Mm hm.
THERAPIST: There seems to be something in the way that they can kind of get you in touch with this whole part of your life that you, at least don’t mention much in here. I don’t kind of know how to think about it, but it seems like -
CLIENT: Yeah, I guess it’s sort of reading the letter felt like I just opened this door that was there that I didn’t want to be opened necessarily. (laughs) [00:32:47]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And now, but also like I really did.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: And [at least those] (ph) immediate things that are making you sadder, are positive things. And there’s plenty of negative things, I know, about graduate school.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But (inaudible at 00:33:19)
CLIENT: Yeah. And I just think that there’s this huge things that I’ve lost. (pause) And I have to sort of not think about it. (pause) Otherwise how could I (sniffles) go to work and do my job and live my life. (pause) (crying) I was really good at it. I was really good. [00:34:25]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (crying) But I couldn’t make it work. (pause) (crying) You know, it’s one of the things that when I think about it I feel like I’m not going to make it through this.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: I feel like I just can’t do it. (crying) (pause) Even talking about it with Candace is better because most of our conversation is geared towards [long distance] (ph), which is easier. [00:35:53]
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Kind of like, “This is the time that we spent at [Paul and Miro’s] (ph).” Like that degree is finished, that time is finished anyway, in a good way. (sniffles)
(long pause) [00:37:49]
CLIENT: I guess I realize I don’t talk about it very much.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
(long pause)
CLIENT: (sniffles) Yeah. I guess I think about it a fair amount.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: But I don’t know. (pause) Yeah. (pause) Or I brush up against it a lot. I think that’s more accurate.] (ph) [00:39:03]
THERAPIST: Hm.
(long pause) [00:40:00]
CLIENT: (sigh)
THERAPIST: Do you always have trouble imagining that I could appreciate how good you are [at that stuff] (ph)? That I can’t suppose, you know, somewhat like the kind of sicker or depressed parts of you and also know how capable (ph) you are, that kind of thing?
CLIENT: I guess I feel like either you will think that I must not actually be all that talented, in which case, you know, I’m sort of talking myself up and that’s embarrassing. Or you will think that I am actually all that talented, in which case you will be disappointed in me.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: And it kind switches (inaudible at 00:41:30). (pause) (inaudible) (pause) Which I know is a terrible way of phrasing it but it’s just not -
(long pause) [00:42:59]
CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I don’t I am very uncomfortable with you considering that question.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: So I don’t want to put you in the position of [making me uncomfortable] (ph). (pause)
THERAPIST: We need to stop.
CLIENT: Okay.
END TRANSCRIPT
