TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: Hi. It's been a really busy week already. (pause) Someone I know from the Internet only who lives in New Zealand has been touring the U.S. for the last three weeks. And she has been saying since May that she's going to come to Providence, and she'd like to meet up with me while she's here. And she's been just impossible to pin down her schedule. [00:00:47]

So at first she told me she would be here the week of July 20th and then like three days before we were scheduled to meet, she was like no actually not going to be here until August. And then she was like no, going to be here July 25th and 26th. And then no, going to be here July 28th. And I was just like, after like three or four of these, I just decided not to try to keep -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: A spot open on my schedule. [00:01:15]

But anyway, yesterday I get this text message at four in the afternoon saying you know, arrived in Providence a couple of hours ago. Only here until tomorrow. Want to get dinner. I'm like eehh.

But as it turned out yesterday I had a lesson scheduled that I cancelled because I worked late.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: I was at work until 8:30 trying to solve a problem that was really angering. So I texted her back and said you know working late, I'm probably going to eat dinner at work. I can meet you for a drink after.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, so that worked out. We met for a drink in my neighborhood. It was fun.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Actually she brought the person she's staying with while she's in Providence.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: He's a good guy. It turns out he knows a friend of mine from Harvard. [00:02:00]

THERAPIST: It goes as planned.

CLIENT: So this friend of mine from Harvard, Charles, who was friends with my evil ex-boyfriend and Ashley back in the day.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Which is how I know him. Is her friend's boss now.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Yeah. So Charles is now faculty at Harvard.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: He was a student back then.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: So yeah, it's a small world.

THERAPIST: I guess so.

CLIENT: But yeah, that was fun. And I stayed out way too late. And I'm tired and hung over. (very long pause) [00:02:57]

I don't even remember what I did Monday after that. What did I do on Monday? That was only two days ago. (very very long pause) [00:04:00]

(continued long pause)

THERAPIST: Well what's on your mind?

CLIENT: I don't know. (pause) Well I just feel really tired and stressed and overwhelmed by everything that I need to get done in the next couple of weeks. (pause) Obviously I'm kind of clear, I'm about to sneeze any second now. Yeah, just trying to think of things I can stop doing. Give myself more room. Because it's just been really clear that I'm not (chuckling) taking enough time to [00:04:56]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: To rest. Yeah. I mean I think I talked about this with you a couple of weeks ago. Maybe it was just last week. I don't remember now. Just this feeling of there is no sweet spot between -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know doing so little that I feel you know, the low self-loathing for being a useless waste of space and then doing so much that I'm constantly exhausted and frazzled and, yeah. (long pause) So I don't know. (pause)

Right, Monday I worked late too. That's what happened. And then I left, I left work in time to get to the Monday night country dance I had wanted to go. And I drove half way there and then changed my mind and went home. Which I've been doing that a lot this summer. Driving part way to the country dance and then going home. Because I keep being worried about running into Tom there. Because that's the dance he goes to. [00:06:05]

He goes to all the local country dances. Every single one of them. There's there's not a single one where I have reasonable certainty that he won't be there. Which is really upsetting. I am also upset with myself for letting him keep me away. (very long pause) [00:07:00]

(continued very long pause) [00:08:00] (continued very long pause) [00:09:00] (continued long pause)

CLIENT: I'm also really angry that Jodie and I spoke to anything. (long pause) I might be being unfair, but. It's really telling to me that she heard the whole story in detail and she doesn't see a problem with continuing to date him. (long pause) [00:10:00]

(continued long pause)

CLIENT: I'm really, really annoyed with myself that I let fear of potentially running into him keep me away from an activity that I enjoy. (long pause) [00:11:00]

(continued very long pause) [00:12:00] (continued very long pause) [00:13:00] (continued pause) (yawn from client)

THERAPIST: Well I'm thinking about what you said and also about -

CLIENT: Um-hum. (pause)

THERAPIST: I see it seems difficult for you to sort of talk really here in a way.

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: And the one reminds me of the other -

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: Where you sort of (pause) are like kind of keeping yourself so tightly scheduled. [00:14:03]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And kind of subtly control of what you're doing.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And maybe there's something else as well like with Tom and the country dances where maybe you're afraid of what you'd run into.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I also was thinking something during that long pause and thinking whether it was very glad to bring it up.

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: The I've been scheduling myself so tightly and leaving very little scheduling margin just so that I wouldn't have to stop and think about everything that happened in May. Which I mean, so Tom assaulted me and then I spent a week and half with my parents. And that was traumatizing. [00:14:56]

And then the day I came back, my friend Linda disclosed to me that her partner Timothy, her partner who had been a good friend of mine -

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And it was just so much full of this awfulness.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I think it wasn't so great either you know, what with you know, a bombing and all sort of with -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, the city being on lock down and which I don't know, this sounds terrible, but I'm going to say it anyway, personally I found the lock down and the police presence far more traumatizing then the original attack. [00:15:29]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: And that -

THERAPIST: How so?

CLIENT: I have a great deal of fear of the police.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: You know my dad he's been you know, harassed and beaten by police officers for no reason before.

THERAPIST: Oh, I didn't know that.

CLIENT: Yeah. And when I was in middle school, our you know, community policing officer who was assigned to the middle school because I went to a I went to a magnet school in a poor urban area. I was bused in from the wealthy white suburb where my parents were living. It was a magnet school where there were there was lots of classes and races in the black community. [00:16:16]

But anyway so there was a community policing officer who repeatedly sexually harassed female students. There were rumors that he was actually sleeping with some of the female students.

THERAPIST: This is at a middle school?

CLIENT: Yes. It was disgusting. I mean thankfully he didn't do much more then you know, occasionally grope me as he walked by, which it was so Anyway the point is like -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Police officers make me panic. You know when I'm walking home from the subway station, I will walk you know, an extra half mile out of my way so I don't have to walk past the police station. That sort of thing. [00:16:59]

So just like having that huge police presence out on the streets, because they were patrolling Cheshire -

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Fairly heavily that day. So it was pretty, it was very scary there.

THERAPIST: I bet. Did the stuff with your father happen before you were born, or when -

CLIENT: No, this was I was in college. So I wasn't there for it. But it was right after 9-11.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: What happened?

CLIENT: He was driving to work. (chuckle) On the base because he was a fucking you know, officer in the military. But we, we lived the suburb pretty far from the base. He had like an hour and a half commute to get to work.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Which took him through Zion, which is a very small town in Missouri. It's a sundown town. It's a -

THERAPIST: What does that mean? [00:17:53]

CLIENT: It had laws on the books for many years making it illegal for black people to live there. So the phrase sundown town comes from there were some towns that were so overtly balls out racist that they would put signs up saying you know, niggers better be out by sundown or else. You know so they were allowed to come and work in the big houses in the town -

THERAPIST: I see, yeah.

CLIENT: But they had to leave by sundown. So Zion was one of those towns. It's a very tiny it may be two square miles of area.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: There are no people of color who live in Zion. There are no Jews who live in Zion. Zion is an entirely white protestant, there aren't even Catholics who live in Zion.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: If you look at you know, the city demographics for race there are still to this day laws on the books in Zion that you cannot rent you house unless you have permission from City Council and they approve of your tenants.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And you cannot buy a house in Zion unless there are three homeowners in Zion who are willing to write you letters of recommendation to the City Council. [00:19:00]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Yeah. So he was driving through Zion and he got pulled over by cops. And they you know, demanded to see proof he was in this country legally. And he refused to show them anything except his Military ID. Saying you know, I'm an officer in the military. You can have my Military ID, I will not show you anything else. And he basically just went all you know, name, rank and serial number on them. And they didn't like that, so they pulled him out of his car and beat him.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) And I mean even before any of like, the terrible interactions with police officers I had and my family had, you know, from childhood my parents taught me you know, police officers, authority figures they are out to get you. You know, don't trust them. Don't go to them if you have a problem.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: It was the exact opposite of you know, white parents tell their children. [00:20:05]

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know. And to some extent that's true, like there is police brutality that is directed at immigrants and black people mostly anyway.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: So anyway, yeah. I find police presence frightening to me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And upsetting in a lot of ways. (pause) I've been pulled over a couple of times and told to show proof that I'm in this country legally. Not in Connecticut. This happened a couple of times when I was living in North Carolina though.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: (chuckle) And because I am not my father and am something of a coward, I just handed over a passport every time.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Yeah, I keep my passport in the car. But if I'm stopped I have it.

THERAPIST: That's a good reason.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:20:56]

THERAPIST: Okay.

(very very long pause) [00:22:00] (continued long pause)

CLIENT: And now we're back to the prove this point of -

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Keeping myself so busy that I don't have time to think. (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Which isn't working. (chuckle)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: At this point I've written thousands of words about all of these events and my thoughts. [00:22:59]

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) And yet in spite of all that I don't feel like I've come to any kind of resolution.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Still thinking about it. So clearly I haven't fully dealt with my feelings.

THERAPIST: Um-hum. I find that it's much easier to write about it then to -

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: Talk and hear about it.

CLIENT: Right. (pause) On the other hand there's there's quite a bit I've been able to say in here that I can't say anywhere else.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Like being mad at Jodie. [00:23:56]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: For continuing to date Tom. I mean I can't say that to anyone else. [00:23:59]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: But it's just too hard if it'll get back to them.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. (long pause) Well (pause) I think I have been thinking again about what you said about country dances and Tom and also about some of what you were just describing about the police.

CLIENT: Um-hum. [00:24:50]

THERAPIST: And in part of what's scary talking about that stuff in here is that even if you know kind of both intellectually and otherwise, you worry if you start talking to me it's going to at some point feel like that with me, or feel like you're in the room with someone who is scary or could be abusive or menacing or something.

CLIENT: Possibly.

THERAPIST: But again like another life I don't have the impression you anticipate I could be that way, but (pause) it -

CLIENT: I mean certainly you've given me no reason to anticipate that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean there is nothing specific about you or these interactions, but there is that kind of evolved background level of you know,

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Don't trust anyone, anyone can turn into [00:25:56]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, a horrible abuser anytime. [00:26:00]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: That's kind of always in the back of my head.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And (pause) there likely would be moments it would feel a bit like that. I'm you know my experience talking with people who are talking about you know, trauma and abuse is that (pause) you know, to varying degrees there are moments talking about it in therapy where it feels like that's going on. (long pause) [00:27:00]

(continued very long pause)

THERAPIST: And I'm speculating here, but (pause) you know maybe giving part the way you described, all this stuff, I wonder if one of your worries is that I would like question the legitimacy of what you're saying. [00:28:00]

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: I guess also the thing that you said to me, like or that I would either doubt it was true or -

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: Doubt that it affected you, what you said, or critical or something that it did. (very long pause) Or they think that would do them, personally I thought you were a mean person or something. [00:28:59]

CLIENT: Hum. (long pause) I actually I can't believe this hasn't come up before. It just seems like such an obvious thing to me you know.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Maybe that's why I haven't come up with, it's so obvious I haven't felt I needed to mention it.

THERAPIST: Which thing?

CLIENT: My phobia of police officers.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Yeah. (long pause) [00:30:00]

(continued very long pause)

THERAPIST: I'm struck by the way you put it actually, it seems careless about it. You refer to your phobia of police officers. And you describe these really quite horrible [00:31:02]

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: Incidents of abuse.

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: But then like you use the word phobia.

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: So they're abusive and you're pathological. I guess what's characteristic is like there's kind of this like no room.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: In there you know, like -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Everybody and everything's all fucked up.

CLIENT: (chuckle)

THERAPIST: You know and just because one isn't seen that such doesn't give the other like, give -

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Any room to just be afraid, you know or -

CLIENT: Right. (pause) I don't think I consciously would have thought. [00:31:57]

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) And I guess there's probably something about that that's like with the schedule.

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: Where everything is so compacted -

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Together like that. There's not a whole lot of room just to think about it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: To talk much really about it. To be sort of talking with me about it in a way. It's all just like kind of compacted together. Like fucked up.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) [00:33:00]

(continued very long pause) [00:34:00] (continued long pause)

CLIENT: I also feel a little bit guilty talking about how stressful I find my life on certain online spaces because I have friends who are going through far, far worse. It feels a little you know, oh poor pity me.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Unfortunately I think I bring a lot of it on myself by just over scheduling it and making bad decisions. (pause) [00:35:00]

(continued very long pause) [00:36:00] (continued very long pause) [00:37:00] (continued long pause)

THERAPIST: Ok, stop now. [00:37:40]

END TRANSCRIPT