TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: You get the iPad (ph) worked out?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(Silence)
THERAPIST: I put on my IT department hat.
CLIENT: (Laughter) Well, you know, it’s good that you have one of those.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah, I do a lot of cursing at things and then handing them to James. So the e-mail that we talked about yesterday. It occurred to me that, like, (pause) there’s, I think, a pretty big difference between the examples you’re giving of something that, like, feels hurtful and is constructive and something that is just hurtful. And the main thing that sticks out to me is that (inaudible 01:06), like, I participate in an active way, you know, both of the things we talked about are in the context of conversations. Like, both are things that, like, (pause) I’m signing up for, in some sense and that, yeah and participate (inaudible 01:28) as opposed to just, like, being sniped (ph). Although I, like, think about that, that I say, well, you know, like…
So I don’t know if you know this book, “The Gift of Fear.” It’s, like, a very (pause) sort of well-known book that deals with, like, domestic violence and stalking, mainly. And so one of the things that it it’s basically, like, how to deal with a stalker. And so the domestic violence chapter has gotten a lot of criticism, I think rightly so, because basically his attitude is the first time a woman gets hit, she’s a victim. The second time, she’s a volunteer. And, yeah, it’s kind of (inaudible 02:19). The rest of the book’s really good but the, like I don’t know. I guess I just wonder. Like, my first thought is, you know, but there’s a difference between what I am actively participating in and what is happening to me. My second thought is, “But I’m putting myself in those relationships with people who do those things to me.” So I don’t know how distinct that line is, but I feel like there is a line. [That was as far my thinking got] (ph).
(Silence)
That idea about domestic violence is pretty insidious. You know, like, I can tell that it’s bullshit for other people, but not so much for myself. (Pause) [As with a lot of things] (ph). It took me, like, more than two hours to get to sleep last night. I just couldn’t fall asleep, and it’s not fun. [00:04:17]
THERAPIST: That’s not so typical?
CLIENT: No, not at all. Yeah, I was sort of exhausted all day. And then (inaudible 04:27) was actually (inaudible 04:30) went to bed at 10:00. I was wide awake. [And it sucked] (ph). You know, I’d taken a nap in the afternoon because I was exhausted (inaudible 04:42). I am very glad it’s not typical for me. That’s, like that’s a rough situation [for me] (ph). You know, there’s, like, not much to do other than stew (ph) and I’m constantly thinking, like, this is going to make me tired for the whole week ahead. I’m trying to, like, relax and, like, let my body fall asleep and it’s just not doing it.
The amount that I think about suicide has been increasing, rather than decreasing. Although it’s a little bit strange because my mood’s been not like, getting better, rather than getting worse. (Pause) I don’t know. [I just mostly] (ph) don’t want to be here. (inaudible 06:28) the thing. I, like, (pause) it’s like I go (ph) (pause) I had a great talk with James last night, and we, you know, talked about what we wanted to do differently next year and where we wanted to live and, you know. He was saying that he likes (inaudible 07:01) because it’s not so fucking loud. (Laughter) The noise in Andover really, really gets to him, and it’s hard for me to remember that in some ways because it doesn’t get to me. I just block it out. It doesn’t bother me at all. But, you know, so I was saying, like, “Well, even if we stay in Denver, like, we should look for some place that’s quieter, you know, (inaudible 07:24) fits in our budget.” And, you know, he was saying he thought we should try to get out of the city more, which I’m definitely on board with, and things like that. And, you know, it was very, like, future-oriented conversation. It was all about, like, what are we going to do together. What are we going to do with our lives.
Like, I was right there in it. And before and after the conversation, I just wanted to kill myself. (Pause) I don’t know. It doesn’t feel like I’m, like, desperate by any means. I just feel really tired. (Pause) But it’s like I’m easily distracted from that. You know, not as easily like, the things I do to distract myself are working less well than typically. But, like, I’m easily distracted by other people, so, like, I sort of come to therapy and, like, I sort of want to talk about it. But, like, the other things that we talk about are a lot more interesting, so I’d rather do that. (Laughter) But it’s just, like, right there when I leave and…
(Silence)
I don’t really know what’s to be done about it (inaudible 09:48) and hope and (inaudible 09:51).
(Silence)
(inaudible 10:30) talked yesterday about, like, lack of sleep being a really tough thing for me. (Pause) Like, it’s not I don’t stop wanting to die when I’ve had enough sleep. I’m just better at dealing with it. (Pause) My dad is up in Vancouver, at the place on the bay that (ph) we used to go camping, my whole life. So he, like he’s one of those men that, like, resisted having a cell phone for, like, a ridiculously long time, past the point where it was socially appropriate. And then once he got a cell phone, like, you can’t get him off it. So he sent me a picture of the bay last night. I was pretty jealous. That’s (ph) my favorite place.
You know, because it’s sort of like being at the beach. It’s like an ocean. Like, you can’t see the other side. But it’s freshwater and the water’s really clean. And it’s rocks, not sand. [And it’s just] (ph) so peaceful. It’s like you feel like you’re (pause) it’s the same, like, restfulness as being alone but when you’re with other people too. You know, (inaudible 12:54) family vacations too much. (Laughter) But it’s really great. (Pause) (inaudible 13:25) didn’t have anybody to go with him this year. So, like, [he’s always going to go] (ph). He’s always going to try to make it possible for anybody else to go with him that’s possible. But if (ph) nobody else can go, he’s going to go. (inaudible 13:45) not in the cards for James and I (inaudible 13:52) I think it’s working. Jason’s fishing classes (inaudible 13:57).
(Silence)
Do you know the poem “The Lake Isle of Innisfree”? It’s a (inaudible 14:57).
THERAPIST: (inaudible 14:59)
CLIENT: That poem was sort of, like, iconic for me.
THERAPIST: What is it (inaudible 15:32)?
CLIENT: Well -
THERAPIST: I don’t remember it probably well enough.
CLIENT: So I guess, “I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree. And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made. Nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee, and live alone in the bee-loud glade. And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow, dropping like the dew of the morning from where the crickets sing. There midnight’s all a glare, and noon a purple glow, and evening full of the linnet’s wings. I will arise and go now, for always, night and day, I hear lake water lapping with low sounds by the shore. Whether I stand on the roadway or on the pavements grey, I hear it in the deep heart’s core.”
(Silence)
[This is why I don’t listen to music very much] (ph). (inaudible 16:49) too much. (inaudible 17:00) (crying) (Pause) So that and “The Crocodile Went to the Dentist,” [a poem] (ph) that I’ve memorized. That’s a Shel Silverstein poem. That’s sort of why I have a lot of poems memorized. (Laughter) But those are probably the most revealing.
(Silence)
THERAPIST: How does the crocodile (inaudible 18:17) (Laughter)
CLIENT: (inaudible 18:20) “The crocodile went to the dentist, and he sat down in his chair. And the dentist said, ‘Now tell me, sir, why does it hurt and where?’ And the Crocodile said, ‘To tell you the truth, there’s a terrible, terrible ache in my tooth.’ And he opened his jaws so wide, so wide, that the dentist, he climbed right inside. And the dentist laughed, “Oh, isn’t this fun?’ as he pulled the teeth out, one by one. And the Crocodile cried, ‘You’re hurting me so! Please put down your pliers and let me go.’ But the dentist just laughed with a ‘ho ho ho,’ and he said, ‘I still have twelve to go. Oops, that’s the wrong one, I confess. But what’s one crocodile’s tooth more or less?’ Then suddenly, the jaws went snap, and the dentist was gone, right off the map. And where he went, no one could guess. To north or south or east or west. He left no forwarding address. But what’s one dentist, more or less?” (Pause) I think I’ve had that one memorized since I was, like, six.
(Silence)
(inaudible 20:38) a baby, so that part really, like…
THERAPIST: Huh?
CLIENT: The kid’s a baby, so that part really like (crosstalk 20:43). Yeah.
THERAPIST: (inaudible 20:47)
CLIENT: They don’t, actually. Yeah. They like poetry though. Like, they have a couple of poems with poetry for children. The next time we go to the library. (Pause) Yeah, they really they like poetry and they like songs. But it’s sort of, like, they’re not really used to singing along, so they, like, just want me to sing all the time.
(Silence)
THERAPIST: I guess it seems to me that (pause) (inaudible 22:05) or [these poems] (ph) or suicide. In a way, like, are some of the best sort of relief that you get. That is partly why (pause) (inaudible 22:51) suicidal. (inaudible 22:56) I mean, there are other reasons as well that would make it difficult (inaudible 23:01) freak out. But, I mean, (inaudible 23:07) freak out or (inaudible 23:10). But I think probably more of it is (pause), quite frankly, part of the point of it is to (inaudible 23:20) without the (pause) having a man (ph) adding intense worries. The anxiety that goes along with (pause) killing (ph) other people.
CLIENT: I feel like it’s very difficult to be myself or exist, you know. Feeling like I have to be the person that other people perceive me to be is always sort of difficult, you know. Just, like, (inaudible 24:19). Doing my laundry. (Pause) The thing that’s been hard in the last few days is that, like, even when I have time where I’m alone and I am, like, explicitly taking a break or, like, resting or, like, trying to refresh myself in some way, like, that is also hard.
THERAPIST: (inaudible 25:12) it occurs to me it must be the toughest thing in the world for you to call me when you’re feeling suicidal.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: That must be the absolute last thing you feel like doing. Maybe not the last thing, but a very, very difficult thing.
CLIENT: I mean, I (pause) like, I want to call you because it helps to talk to you, usually, but it is usually really, really hard. Yeah.
THERAPIST: (inaudible 25:56) I imagine a lot of what you’re feeling when you’re feeling that way is or when you’re kind of more in contact with it is you want to be alone. You don’t really want to exist. You want to be able to sort of let go. And reaching out to anybody (inaudible 26:29) talking about it. You’re never going to matter.
CLIENT: Yeah. It’s like I it’s like to call you is to make the decision that I’m (pause) going to do not what I want to do but what needs to happen for me to keep being okay.
THERAPIST: (inaudible 27:10) like (pause) the opposite of the other side of the coin from what you’re actually wanting. To just be able to do what you want. I mean, in a way.
CLIENT: Yeah. (inaudible 27:46) one of the ways that I kind of derail things when I (inaudible 27:50) necessarily. Well, what do you want to do right now, instead of kill like, what is something that you want to do? You know, a lot of times, I’m just like, “Well, I just want to go to bed.” Or, like, I want to have a beer and watch television, or things like that. But, like, [even that seems hard] (ph). (inaudible 28:25) not doing what I want to do and, like, what the next best thing is.
THERAPIST: I wonder if in your wish to kill yourself there’s also a wish to kill everybody else. In other words, if, like or if killing yourself actually means getting rid of everyone else.
CLIENT: No. (Pause) I wish I didn’t matter to people. I was thinking about the afterlife yesterday and it occurred to me that, like, it is very important to me that there be an afterlife for other people, but not for myself.
THERAPIST: You hesitated a little as you were saying that?
CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) I feel like that’s sort of a grim thing to, like, spend my Monday afternoon thinking about. [00:30:25]
(Silence)
I don’t want to have to participate. (Pause) I usually don’t think very much about the afterlife because (pause), well, to be honest, I think that’s where theology breaks down, like, for me. Like, I’m like, “Yeah, I just don’t buy any of this.” And I also feel like (pause) it doesn’t actually matter very much to me. It shouldn’t matter (inaudible 31:48). You know, I’m not somebody who deals with injustice in the world by saying everything will be okay in heaven. It doesn’t (inaudible 32:16) or, like, respecting the injustice that’s in the world. (inaudible 32:35) the worst thing. (Laughter)
(Crying)
I have to keep going (inaudible 34:15). (Crying) I mean, I don’t want to kill everyone else, but I’m really angry at them. (Laughter) [And they can’t get out] (ph).
THERAPIST: Are you saying they can’t get out?
CLIENT: Yeah, because [I can’t get out] (ph). (Crying)
(Silence)
(inaudible 39:06) like I have to show you that I’m okay. (inaudible 39:49)
(Silence)
THERAPIST: (inaudible 40:58)
CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t want you to worry about me.
(Silence)
THERAPIST: (inaudible 42:26)
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