TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: …Code is -

CLIENT: I’m not going to remember it.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 00:04)

CLIENT: Actually, I can just write it down.

THERAPIST: I think pound 7 0 3 2 pound will work.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure. (Pause) Yeah, sorry (inaudible 00:45).

CLIENT: You know, it was kind of funny. So James gets home tonight. He seems to have actually been able to do what he went up there to do, so that’s really good. So he’s sending off the samples that he made for analysis.

(Silence)

And we’re going to dinner with some people from Ohio this weekend. You know, kind of like sort of people that you would never be friends with, except that you’re in one situation together and then you both end up in the same place. You know, they like us and we like them. I think there’s a lot of mutual incomprehension. (inaudible 02:18)

THERAPIST: [That’s all right] (ph). (inaudible 02:21)

CLIENT: Like, the biggest thing I can think of to say is, like, well, they’re sort of rednecks, except I feel like I I feel like, you know, (inaudible 02:43) more James than myself kind of girl but rednecks, and so we (inaudible 02:48). Pacific Northwest rednecks? Is that a thing? I don’t know. Anyway, they’re really fun.

THERAPIST: Where are they from?

CLIENT: I don’t know. I think the husband’s from somewhere around here (inaudible 03:09) Midwest.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 03:17) there’s probably some different name for something like that (inaudible 03:22).

CLIENT: Fair enough, yeah. Yeah. (inaudible 03:28) usually, like, freaking (inaudible 03:37), like, massive amounts of meat (ph). It’s really fun. (Laughter) I feel like sports and videogames are the two areas that, like, I just am not equipped to deal with socially. Like, I just got nothing. I like playing sports, but I just, you know, I enjoy watching sports games, but I don’t care enough to I don’t care enough to follow a team, ever, or to watch a game if it’s not everyone else is doing or to go to a game.

I feel like I’m (inaudible 04:48) conditions. Just, like, this sounds really interesting for you guys, but I got nothing. (Pause) It’s sort of strange for me, getting to the age where you have couple friends, like, friends as a couple. And be like, “We’re going to Henry and Mitchell’s house.” Like, this person and this person thing (ph). [It’s also] (ph) a little strange when, like, I do things without James and people sort of look a little bit (inaudible 05:32) at me. Like, going to, like, church events without James. Maybe I just feel weird about it and other people don’t feel weird. I don’t know. But [I just feel really weird] (ph).

(Silence)

There’s a new priest at my church. A woman, about my age. Maybe a little older. (Pause) [I don’t know what I think about her] (ph). I don’t know. She seemed completely terrified (laughter) last week, which is the first week I saw her. Actually, I do. My dad sent me an article that mentioned her, so, like, I know she’s been ordained for, like, some time. (inaudible 06:43) I don’t know.

(Silence)

We went out to the pond. Is that it? (inaudible 08:09) yesterday, [on the] (ph) dock. I had to drop something off there. It’s very frustrating. Like, one thing that I find frustrating about these two older kids is that, like, what Jackson (sp?) doesn’t like playgrounds. So (laughter) it’s like all of the things I do, he kind of just, like, drags his feet about (ph). Like, he’ll once we get there, he’ll sort of step up a little bit, but, like, (inaudible 08:39) just really likes going on the swing set and, like, really likes, you know, playing on the playground. But (inaudible 08:44) like, “I want to go home now. I’m tired.” (Laughter)

Sharon (sp?) also really likes the swings (inaudible 09:09). You know, she’s like, not even she’s not walking yet. But she gets really excited. So they swing for, like, ten minutes and (inaudible 09:23) like (sighs), “Isn’t it time to do something else now?” I’m like, “No, (inaudible 09:27). Go away.” (Laughter) “Go do something.” [I don’t know] (ph). (inaudible 09:35) also started to, like like, we’ll do something, an activity, and then as soon as it’s over, (inaudible 09:41) like, “What can I do now?” And I’m like (laughter) I think I need to step back a little bit from planning things (inaudible 09:51). Well, I’m sure you can figure out what to do.

[I don’t know what] (ph) yeah, [I don’t know what to say] (ph). Here I am, in it. I don’t think there really is (inaudible 10:41) just be in it and keep going.

THERAPIST: What are you referring to?

CLIENT: Just, like, (pause) not really wanting to be alive.

(Silence)

THERAPIST: (inaudible 11:29) you’re describing feeling alienated or disconnected. Or kind of not wanting to be here. And (pause) I think that’s probably what it’s like. I think there’s a lot of kind of (inaudible 12:14) alienation and not wanting, like just not wanting to be at the playground when…

CLIENT: That’s pretty good. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: (inaudible 12:28)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like, you want to be dead. I guess what I mean is (pause) not just that you don’t want to be here on this earth, but also here in this room, talking to me when you’re feeling that way, which involves also a sense of alienation. And then, like, (pause) maybe also, like, (inaudible 13:08), “Are we done yet?”

CLIENT: I don’t know. I mean, I would rather be here than most other places. (Pause) (inaudible 13:28) not to look too hard, but the distinction between I would rather do this and I would actually want to do this. I mean, you know. [Would you] (ph)? I don’t know. So yeah, you’re right.

THERAPIST: I think I missed the distinction -

CLIENT: Oh, that, like just because I would rather be here than most things doesn’t mean that I want to be here.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: If I look at that too hard and, like, you know, all of my options start to look pretty (ph) bad.

(Silence)

There’s always (pause) you know, I say like I do say, like, “Am I done yet?” for whatever I’m doing (inaudible 15:16) but there’s always something else to do after that. It’s sort of like trying to sleep on, like, waiting on the bus or someplace uncomfortable where, like, each position isn’t actually comfortable, but it’s more comfortable than what it was before, but not really (inaudible 15:45). I just had, like, mud all over my legs (inaudible 15:57) they apparently decided to redo all of the sidewalks in Andover, as far as I can tell. Which would be great, if they, like, had other sidewalks that we could walk in, but (laughter) they’re just like, “No, you can walk on the road. It’s fine.” So (laughter) I keep having to, like, find alternate routes to get here and dodge traffic. You know, it’s Andover. They’re used to…

THERAPIST: (inaudible 16:40) pedestrians.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) Yeah, yeah. Even in my sleep, I dream. (Pause) And I don’t usually like, I don’t remember dreams very well, but tend to remember, like, not what happened but, like, the emotions that I had in the dream. (Pause) [Things are] (ph) pretty anxious and frustrating for me [at night] (ph).

(Silence)

So (inaudible 18:50) try not to, like, step back and look at things [in whole] (ph), in the way that I’m doing now. But just try to be caught up in whatever I’m doing. Yeah, so really, most of the day I’m okay.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I’m sure the kids help with that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, they do.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 19:24) with you and (inaudible 19:27), like, just finding something for yourself to -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: [Pay attention to] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, [it’s like I’m here] (ph). I think one of the things that’s helpful here is the sense that, like, there’s a problem (inaudible 19:59). Like…

(Silence)

THERAPIST: Yeah, there seems to be something about when the focus is instead really (ph) on you. That it’s much more involved (ph). That it’s supposed to (inaudible 20:52) like, when there’s a problem (inaudible 20:58)

CLIENT: I guess I mean like it’s like I come here and, you know, we do, like, talk about (inaudible 21:06) a lot of it is talking about not, like, what not, like, this moment, but more general things [about me] (ph). And that (inaudible 21:28) [tend to frame it] (ph) as a problem. [That’s what I do] (ph). I don’t think I said that very well.

In some ways, I feel like (inaudible 22:42). I guess I feel in some ways I can tell you these various things because, like, I want you to help me with them. A lot of it is wanting somebody else (inaudible 23:00) and a lot of it is just feeling like, well, if I weren’t telling anybody, I would feel guilty about that. [You know] (ph), like, for being part of this social (ph) contract is, like, (inaudible 23:24). That’s what I’m going to do.

It occurred to me, I’m being really boring today. (Laughter) Like, oh god. (Laughter) And there you have it. (Laughter)

(Silence)

I got gas for the car yesterday. I never, like, I’ve never been to a full-service gas station. And suddenly in Denver, like, I can’t find anything else. That kind of creeps me out a little bit. Like, I don’t know if I’m (inaudible 25:02). This is weird for me. I feel like I’m not sure whether I’m supposed to tip but, like, can’t really afford to go to a gas station where I have to tip. Like, (inaudible 25:12).

THERAPIST: People hardly ever tip.

CLIENT: Okay, good.

THERAPIST: Used to, but not -

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: Used to, but not anymore.

CLIENT: James has this is so James. He’s got, like, a book where he keeps track of, like, total mileage of the car. The miles that it went since the last time you pumped gas. The date. How expensive the gas was. How much he got. Like, he just keeps track of all of it. I usually remember to update it. (Pause) That’s one of the things that is (ph), like, both very useful and also kind of irritating. And also, I just find adorable. (Laughter) [Can you imagine that] (ph)? Yeah.

[I think it’s been filled up like] (ph) five times this year so far, maybe, rather than, like, once a month. Like every six weeks. I feel good about that. (inaudible 27:32) I like driving more often now. (inaudible 27:42) driving to Boston, it should be me rather than James. Crazy drivers drive me nuts less than they do James. Like, and I’m also, like, a more aggressive driver than he is. Not aggressive, I don’t think, but I’m more willing to tolerate a world in which, like, nobody ever signals and people cut you off. Like going around those roundabouts on Aurora, but, like, (laughter) totally insane. Like, who designs this shit? (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Years ago, we called them circles of death. (Laughter)

CLIENT: Yeah. People just, like, drive into me because (inaudible 28:42) to get off and, you know, why are you going in this direction? But, you know, that’s fine. I don’t think it would be fine for James. It’s distracting. (Pause) (inaudible 29:16) the first couple of years that I had a car, I loved driving. I didn’t have a car until I was in college. (inaudible 29:30) I liked being able to get in the car and start driving, and know that, like, I didn’t have to come back if I didn’t want to. Like, I could just keep going.

(Silence)

(inaudible 30:12)

(Silence)

I finished James’ shirt. Did I tell you that? I’ve (ph) been making a collared shirt, like, a long time ago. And I sort of put it down and didn’t pick it back up. I think I, like, did the cuffs wrong, and so I finished it. I sort of said, “Whatever, the cuffs are just going to be wrong. [Who’s going to notice] (ph)?” Which is usually what I do when something goes wrong. And so, I have to, like, put it away until I can reconcile myself [to it] (ph) -

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Not being okay. (Laughter) Rather than or reconcile myself to trying to fix it, which is annoying. I’m glad. I feel like I did something (inaudible 33:30). (Pause) (inaudible 33:39) he doesn’t like to wear t-shirts. He doesn’t he just doesn’t like them. I think he gets, like, claustrophobic about, like, necks. So...

(Silence)

Yeah, I made him a scarf and he won’t, like, wear it like a normal scarf. (inaudible 34:31)

THERAPIST: I’m wondering if you aren’t actually just distracting yourself, but also do (pause) you generally feel good about some of the things that occupy you. With the kids or with James.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. No, I do. You know, (pause) I, like it goes in and out. Like, I (pause) that’s one thing that I don’t really understand about it, is that, like, (inaudible 36:16) like where my life is right now. I really like a lot of the things in it and, you know, (inaudible 36:29).

THERAPIST: Maybe somehow it’s also very important to maintain that idea that, really, you want to just kill yourself all the time, unless you’re distracted. (Pause) Even if it’s not true. I’m not saying I (inaudible 36:59) true, or even that -

CLIENT: (inaudible 37:00)

THERAPIST: Untrue. But (pause) yeah.

CLIENT: That sounds like it’s probably right. (inaudible 37:32)

THERAPIST: Sure. Know why? (Laughter) I had a thought (ph). (Pause) Okay, so earlier, (pause) wherever you were talking about your friends or people talking about sports or videogames. You’re like, “You can talk about sports. I got nothing,” you know. (Pause) I think that’s actually a little complicated, and maybe in a way that’s parallel to feeling suicidal. Like, the (pause) okay, so, like, with the sports thing. You don’t like sports. You’re not into sports. People are talking about sports. You don’t have much to say. You feel, like, kind of alienated. What are you going to do? I think this is how you can feel like that. Like, “It sucks. I’m in so much pain. I don’t want to be here. Other (ph) things feel awful or impossible. What am I going to do?”

But actually, I think in both cases, there’s another component there that you may (inaudible 39:23), which is it kind of sucks to be with people who are talking about something that you don’t really have any interest in, knowledge of or care a whole lot about, like sports. (Pause) Depending on the context of how long it goes on, it’s not very nice. [You’re going out with a couple] (ph) and they just want to talk about sports, and clearly, this is not something you can relate to or contribute to. Like, it feels shitty. And yeah, I imagine you don’t want to be there anymore, talking about sports. (inaudible 40:09) maybe not talking about (laughter) sports, and not feeling part of the conversation and not feeling connected, and not feeling like anybody’s paying attention to that, because this is obviously not something that you can relate to much.

And (pause) I guess, you know, in that it (ph) suggests that there’s also perhaps a bit of an edge for you to, like, “I got nothing” or “I don’t want to be part of the conversation.” Which I think you kind of disavowed it, you know, and I think you put it as a, like, “Well, I just don’t have anything to say because it’s not a (inaudible 40:54) interest for me.” Which I think leads out to this other thing of how it feels that you’re being treated. And, you know, maybe a bit more of a kind of edge in how you feel about what’s going on. Which I imagine, and maybe wrongly, maybe there with the suicidality (ph) as well. Like, (pause) sure (inaudible 41:25) that hurts a lot and a lot of situations feel and they are impossible and feel awful, and you don’t see a way out.

But I wonder if there’s also that part where it’s an edge, where there’s an edge, where (pause) people have disappointed you or promised you things that haven’t panned out. Or said they were there for you or promised to be there for you in ways that they weren’t. Or alienated you. Again, that’s with the conversation about sports. And in subtle ways that either you know they were kind of acknowledging were not (pause) attentive (ph) or kind (ph).

CLIENT: [I am] (ph). [So, like, I hear you] (ph). (Pause) It doesn’t feel like it fits perfectly, but I’m not really sure how. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: [We should] (ph) stop, [for now] (ph).

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