TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: And I’ll figure out then [inaudible]
CLIENT: So I found my engagement ring. Yay! Yeah, I’m really, really happy. Both of us cried, actually. But yeah…
THERAPIST: Oh, that’s lovely.
CLIENT: Yeah, it was really nice. It was actually right exactly where we thought it would be, in the giant pile of snow that the plow had pulled up. And today was the first [inaudible] that it was just sitting right on top of the snow. Yay.
THERAPIST: Oh good; that is great.
CLIENT: Yeah. I decided I’m probably not going to wear it again until we get it resized.
THERAPIST: What a relief. How long had it been lost?
CLIENT: Almost a month, yeah. [1:01] It was like… it was pretty clearly not anywhere other than that parking space, but there was always snow and… or it was dark or it was… there was somebody parked there. So I feel like I would’ve just kept going back until we left Denver. Which is good, because I was having sort of a shitty day until then. That helped a lot.
THERAPIST: [inaudible] Sherlock Holmes stories. The other day there was one in which there’s a really important diplomatic [inaudible] stolen, and he wound up encouraging the [inaudible] who… the guy who lost it, the [inaudible] look in the box where he had originally stored it safely in his house…
CLIENT: And he had put it back there? [2:14]
THERAPIST: He got [inaudible] put it back there but…
CLIENT: No, I remember that one.
THERAPIST: [inaudible] I know it couldn’t be anywhere else. (laughter)
CLIENT: I like that one. I’m also sort of glad that I found it instead of James finding it. I just feel better. (pause) I’m getting [inaudible] I don’t know what to say next [inaudible] at the end of that. I didn’t think I was going to find it. [3:45] (pause) So I got these boots for Christmas. I basically haven’t taken them off because they’re so comfortable. They’re just really warm and they’re comfortable and they don’t leak and I love them. And so I wore them to church last night and hadn’t checked the schedule beforehand and found out five minutes before the service that I was supposed to serve as an altar person, so I definitely served [inaudible] last night in these boots and jeans. It was pretty good. I was like, I don’t know, I just hate doing that sort of thing, forgetting things. [5:07] They usually send out an e-mail to everybody earlier in the week and I hadn’t gotten one, and I just hadn’t checked the calendar and I forgot. And it was fine but (pause) James’s been looking for jobs. I feel like we get into this cycle where I’m sort of shy or timid about asking him stuff about what he’s working on because I don’t want to bother him or put pressure on him, and then he feels like I just don’t care. And I think one of the things that… I think he got… was sort of sad over break that no one in his family really asked about what his thesis was about, or the content of it. As he said, he was like well if I have the scientific knowledge of a senior in high school, most people are at about a second grade level. So just… I think he’s actually… he’s very good at explaining it. I think it’s just the kids… most people don’t want to listen long enough to hear the sort of like basic science that he has to explain in order to get to the point where he can tell them about what he’s doing. [7:05] And I feel like I have been included in that. Part of it is that I understand that when… I follow him when he’s describing something or talking about something, but I have a hard time carrying it from one conversation to the next and so he ends up having to retell me about stuff, and that’s frustrating. And I am sort of timid about it. I sort of feel like he won’t want to explain it to me. Or that if I ask about it he’ll be impatient about telling me about the basic stuff, with the result that I think he feels like I just don’t care about what he’s doing. I wouldn’t care about what he was doing if he weren’t the person doing it. I don’t… yeah, I don’t have any inherent desire to know about chemistry, but if he’s doing it I care very much about him. So I’ve been sort of fretting about that. [8:26] I think I just need to be more decisive about asking what’s going on day to day [inaudible] (pause) So apparently there aren’t really any jobs in Texas unless he wants to make weapons, which he’s not really a fan of. Apparently there’s a job description that actually included make weapons in it. He’s like that’s… we’re not supposed to be doing that. So probably not [inaudible] Somebody asked me if I wanted to be on the vestry at church last night, if I wanted to be nominated for it. The vestry’s the people who make the decisions basically. It’s an elected committee of the congregation who basically hire people and fire people and decide where the church is going. And do the budget.
THERAPIST: Sort of like a board of directors.
CLIENT: Yeah, and I said I would love to. I don’t know if I’m going to be living here in six months so maybe this isn’t the year. [10:15] So then I turned into this thing of I don’t want to talk to James about how his job search is going without grilling him on it because well yes, this… it’s hard for me to live with this uncertainty but I feel like James… and I feel like James is very sensitive to that, but at the same time this is a really important decision for him. I think he should take his time. I think he should because if he is in a position where he can take his time and still get a paycheck, yeah, I think we should find something that he wants. And it makes me sad to try to talk about it. Yeah, I guess I feel like talking to him, there’s just a lot of sadness to fight through for both of us. And [inaudible] (pause)
THERAPIST: I guess there’s something about feelings that as you’re talking and thinking about it here that gets also uncomfortable. [12:34]
CLIENT: It’s sort of like it’s there, and I want to talk about it here because it’s the sort of place that I have to be sad, but then that’s hard and I don’t want to. And I worry about whether it’s okay and (pause)
THERAPIST: Feeling okay with me or with James?
CLIENT: With you. (pause) Somehow I ended up in a conversation… I spent this morning with somebody who I don’t know, and he’s a friend of a friend. [14:11] He’s like well, I just don’t think therapy actually works. I haven’t seen anybody that it’s worked for. And I was just like okay, that’s fine. You really don’t know what you’re talking about so I’m just going to let this go, but that’s really hard for me. It’s getting easier but (pause) I sort of get low and then I feel better and then I get low and then I feel better, and I feel like it’s very important for me for there to be a signal in that as opposed to just noise. But, yeah, I don’t know. (pause)
THERAPIST: Well the… I guess the… what you say about the therapy skeptic made me think not of you as a therapy skeptic but more as a skeptic of the sort of, I don’t know, validity or reasonableness of the things that affect you, like you’re going to disappoint James if you try to talk to him about his work or you’re going to [inaudible] in a way that’s going to make him angry or upset him. [16:41] Or I’m going to think you shouldn’t be talking about feeling sad about things with James. (pause) Well yeah, it’s like you are skeptical of the sort of validity or reasonableness of what you want to talk about.
CLIENT: Those don’t feel like good enough reasons to be sad.
THERAPIST: I’m not sure what your skepticism is about.
CLIENT: I don’t know.
THERAPIST: In other words, you seem to have in mind some reason I would have for finding fault with your talking about things that, if I understood you correctly [overlapping talk]
CLIENT: Maybe [inaudible]
THERAPIST: And sort of after that I think it all starts to sound more like noise with no signal to you. [19:02] Maybe it’s not a very far step from well, I kind of want to be able to talk about x, y, or z, but I think it’s going to cause trouble or it’s not right or it’s going to make me feel worse at the end of it to well, it doesn’t seem that there are things I’m upset about, it’s just that sometimes I’m really upset and sometimes I’m not.
CLIENT: Yeah, I think [inaudible] (pause) So when I’m thinking of that I don’t quite know how I’m getting there, what I’m thinking is that I still cut myself but I feel like more than ever I’m sort of divorced from any real understanding of why I’m doing it or any… it’s not necessarily triggered by anything. Or if it is, it’s not triggered by the same things that it used to be or things aren’t as bad when I’m cutting myself. [21:20] I don’t know. But (pause) [inaudible] still seem to really need [inaudible] (pause) James hasn’t really mentioned it. I can’t really tell whether he notices and he just doesn’t say anything or if he just doesn’t notice.
THERAPIST: I guess [inaudible] I’m hearing that is [inaudible] there are things that you’re incredibly upset about that it’s really extremely hard to be in touch with yourself and to bring it up. [23:38]
CLIENT: That makes sense.
THERAPIST: I mean I guess [inaudible] don’t want to.
CLIENT: Yeah but I also really do… it’s starting to sort of feel like I’m really sad somewhere and that I sort of want to get it over with but [inaudible] feels really destructive and scary and, I don’t know.
THERAPIST: And I think you probably heard my saying you don’t want to talk about it as… I think you probably know I didn’t mean it critically but I think it probably felt like you feel ashamed of not wanting to bring it up or as though you should be able to just kind of talk that out or bring it up. [25:23] Like there was a little bit of I put some pressure on you to do that and you feel bad about it. I guess [inaudible] more like then there’s some combination of me or you kind of making life very difficult around something that’s already very painful.
CLIENT: This is sort of coming up in our couples counseling, also, just about it scares the shit out of me. I just dread it every week. And it’s really hard. And I think James just really sort of wants to talk about the things that are hard because he feels like he’s been silenced and I just… I’m not going to bring it up. I (pause) but I do feel like [inaudible]
THERAPIST: [inaudible] try giving [ph?] your references clearly that James really wants to do the couples therapy because he feels like he’s been silenced in important things. He wants a say there.
CLIENT: Yeah, or not so much that there’s stuff… specifically things in his mind that he wants to say as he feels like he wants to talk about the things that are issues for us that we don’t talk about very much. [27:04]
THERAPIST: And you don’t want to?
CLIENT: No. And I know that we need to, and I know that it’s better to talk about them, and I’m going, but…
THERAPIST: You dread it every week.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: And I guess you were also (pause) I think, in a way, a part of you feels sort of forced or even a bit kind of tortured by that.
CLIENT: Yeah, it sort of feels like that. I know that’s now how it is but it sort of feels like [inaudible] (pause) This is the way I fix things. I want to fix them so I try to go easy on myself for not being uniformly enthusiastic about it. [29:01] But [inaudible] (pause) I don’t know, I feel like I can sort of pick at the things or pick out the things that make me feel so awful about myself or trigger that, but it doesn’t… that sort of feels separate from just how awful I feel about myself. And it just sort of defends [inaudible] (pause) I had trouble sleeping last night, which is usually what happens when you go from sleeping really late every day to going to bed early because you have to wake up early the next day. And I just couldn’t turn my brain off. [31:02] I couldn’t stop thinking about things. (pause)
THERAPIST: [inaudible] sort of thing that happens right when you’re trying to get yourself to go to bed earlier because you have to get up early. And not only that, but you have to get up to go to [inaudible]
CLIENT: Yeah, pretty much. (laughter) Monday mornings are not the best.
THERAPIST: And it sounds like there are some things that are similar about the cutting and the couples therapy, honestly. I mean…
CLIENT: How do you mean? This sounds interesting.
THERAPIST: I know. It sounds like they can kind of feel similar. And in some ways I guess they’re sort of [inaudible] each other but… it sounds to me as though one aspect of both is the feeling of something kind of excruciating being done to you.
CLIENT: I don’t know. (pause) I think one of the reasons that I continue to cut myself, it’s a little bit of a fuck you to everybody else. [32:47] It’s like I know that this is really bad but this is what I’ve got. So that way they don’t really [inaudible] So basically I’m 16. [ph?] I don’t know. I’m not particularly proud of that but it’s definitely there. It really doesn’t go away. I don’t know.
THERAPIST: No, I think you’re ashamed of it, which is why you refer to it as kind of an adolescent thing to do. I mean as though [inaudible] say fuck you to everybody.
CLIENT: Thanks. (laughter) (pause) I really hate the snotty part of crying. I just hate it. [36:01] (pause) I’m not sure why I clean my glasses with my shirt when the tissues are right there. (pause) I’ve been pretty hard on myself recently. [38:25] It sort of feels like I’m stuck in this pattern of I know the things I’m doing that aren’t helpful or that are bad for me or that are reinforcing things that hurt me, but I can’t get out of it. (pause) So one of the things I’ve been beating myself up about recently is not writing. [39:53] But I don’t know, I feel like I’m already in one marathon. Maybe I should give myself a break for not starting another one. [inaudible] (pause) But [inaudible] got some yarn [ph?] I’m going to go get some [inaudible] I’ll remember. [ph?] [42:09] (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah, there’s something in that that sounded to me like you [inaudible] on yourself. I’m not sure [inaudible] I think it’s…
CLIENT: [inaudible] Sometimes I feel like it’s okay for me to give up today because I’ll wake up tomorrow and then I’ll have to do it over again. And yeah, it’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know. Things really suck right now but I’m not as scared of that as I usually am. [43:49] (pause)
THERAPIST: [inaudible] stop.
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