TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: The hot water in my apartment has not been working at random times on random mornings. I think there’s something going on with the heater. The heating will turn off and the hot water will turn off. Most of the time this is fine, but it was off this morning. (laughs) Oh well. (long pause) [00:01:06] Actually James and I had a pretty good evening yesterday. We talked a lot and watched a little TV, but talked a lot. (pause) He asked me how I felt about Dover, Deleware. He applied there for a PhD program. We talked about it before. Since he’s applied, the department head has changed a lot in the last five or six years. [00:02:04] There are a lot of people who do, basically, green energy, which is something that he’s always wanted to get into.
THERAPIST: That would be a post-doc?
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Amanda has an interview today. It’s basically just like an interview with the school. They don’t have a position available, but it seems like they’re thinking about expanding their offerings in some way at the religious school in Converse, TX, which is this small town; and president of the religious school in Texas was chatting with Amanda about things and he was like, “You should go interview with this place,” so he sort of set that up. [00:03:05] I’m a little jealous, but I’ll get over it. She could use a break. (long pause) I didn’t sleep well last night again. I was kind of excited about going to work. (long pause) [00:04:22] I went to bed early and I just kept waking up. I’m tired.
THERAPIST: That sounds sort of typical for you.
CLIENT: Not to be able to sleep well? No. (pause) [00:05:04] It’s very rare. Even when I’m depressed and my sleep patterns change, I just sleep more. It’s not like it’s harder for me to sleep. (pause) My dad gave me this fleece for Christmas because he gives me a fleece for Christmas every year. Before I started working I never wear them. It’s not really my style and I sort of do enough hiking and camping that I just need one because you can’t take more than one on a long camping trip anyway. [00:06:01] You just have one of everything. But he gives me one every year. I really actually like this one, mostly because it’s machine washable so I can wear it to work. (laughs) It’s really, really warm. All good things. I sort of miscalculated this morning. (pause)
Amanda called me yesterday, both to tell me about the interview and to ask me to help talk her down for it. [00:07:07] She has always talked about wanting to teach, but how does that even work? How do you plan curriculums? What do you do? I’ve only really done it once and I didn’t really plan it, but I think it’s pretty doable. You don’t want to be doing something for six weeks or two months because everybody gets bored. What are we trying to achieve? What are we trying to do? How are we going to do that? How are we going to know that we’ve done it? That’s sort of it. (long pause) [00:08:24] I sort of feel like I could use a break right now. (long pause) [00:09:20] My sister-in-law, Amanda, who just got her Masters in teaching, would be a little bit horrified to hear me describe curriculum planning. (laughs) The three-minute summary. You can totally do this. It’s not a big deal. (pause) She’s having a girl. [00:09:59] (pause)
James just finished reading Uncle Tom’s Cabin because James’ youngest brother, Billy, has just finished reading it in school; so he gave it to James so James could read it, too. Thanks, Billy. (laughs) I have actually never read that. I think I read an excerpt in high school and thought, “This is terrible. I’m not doing this.” But James really enjoyed it. It is sort of written serially over a period of three years, so the author’s writing gets better as she goes along. (laughs) He thought it was really interesting. [00:11:00] (pause) We talked last night about what James found offensive. We sort of talked around it. Apparently, some European council on the sciences decided that they wanted to get more women into science and so they made a video entitled Science – It’s For Girls.” It was so offensive that they had to take it down after 30 hours. Have you heard about this? Basically, all of these scantily-clad, pouting super models – it’s like a yogurt commercial transposed onto science. (both laugh) [00:12:09] I was like young women laughing together about nothing in particular.
THERAPIST: Maybe science burns calories.
CLIENT: Yeah. And an attractive male scientist taking off his glasses to stare at these young women. (laughs) People writing equations on the mirror in lipstick.
THERAPIST: That’s probably why there aren’t more. (both laugh)
CLIENT: Yeah, in some ways. I didn’t really propose that theory to James, but how could anybody ever think this was a good idea? He was like, “Well, they’re probably just old, male scientists who have no idea why that would be offensive. They’re trying to do good, but they really aren’t getting there.” [00:13:12] Then a group of neuroscience PhD students at the University of Manchester made a parody of it, which is very, very, very funny. We watched both of them and were like “why was this one offensive and this one was just funny?” I couldn’t relate to the [topic] (ph?). Oh, well. (pause) [00:13:58]
There is some whole online [magazine] (ph?) debate – which is sort of stupid, about the TV critic [00:14:16] why there is so much nudity in girls. Do you know him? She’s very young. She has a show [ ] that’s been really, really popular and is like three seasons in. Basically everybody thinks she’s hot shit. She really thinks she’s hot shit, too. I feel like she gets a lot of flak from non-white people because she’s like, “I represent young women’s experiences.” I know people who call her on her show at all, like girls who went to University of Portland and are now living in California. Well that is a really important experience to represent, but that’s not everybody’s experience. [00:15:03] She’s apparently naked. She’s naked all the time on the show. There is a whole lot of her nudity and no one else. He sort of asked about it and, basically, everybody in the room was like “that’s really offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.”
THERAPIST: What did he ask?
CLIENT: He basically was like why is there so much nudity? I think in the question he contrasted it with nudity being pretty much salacious and there to titillate, but here it’s not really sexy nudity – it’s just nudity. I think basically she just thought he was saying she was ugly and that she shouldn’t be naked, but if you actually read the question it’s not at all what he was asking. It was like why did you make this choice? Everyone was like “that’s really offensive” and he was just transcribing their conversation. [00:16:07] Everyone was saying either “that was really offensive” or “why? I don’t understand.” I sort of belong to the latter camp. Maybe because I feel like it’s sort of disingenuous to talk about the choices that you make within a TV show outside of the larger framework of the choices that everyone else has made about nudity on television. Judd Apatow, who is one of the producers, was like, “You know. If the people in my movies had been brave enough to be nude I totally would have had [ ] (inaudible at 00:16:54).” No, you wouldn’t have because no one would let you. So maybe you should talk about that. [00:17:01] People in Judd Apatow movies are not shy people. (both laugh)
I feel like this is sort of the place I hit with some of my feminist theologian friends, like women who write for TW. You just need to take a step back and attribute good intentions to people.
THERAPIST: I’m sorry. What’s TW?
CLIENT: It’s this blog called Theology Women. [00:18:01] Kirsten writes for it. It’s a whole bunch of people I went to William & Mary with. Candace did not write for it; in part because they didn’t ask Candace to write for it because she wasn’t going on to do a PhD in theology. She was teaching theology at a high school, so that doesn’t really count. (laughs)
THERAPIST: [That’s sort of the snobbery of the people] (ph?) going for PhD’s towards Candace and how ridiculous it is.
CLIENT: She seems to be doing really well. [00:18:56] (pause) I don’t remember which holiday it was, but one of the holidays recently she was spending with Pete’s parents. I was like, “That’s a little stressful.” And she was like, “No. It’s so much easier than spending it with your own parents.” (both laugh) That’s a good sign. (pause) [00:19:58]
THERAPIST: For some reason I can’t get my head around this. Maybe I got this wrong, but it also sounds like in a sense that Lena Dunham’s nudity on her show partially reflects of her narcissism.
CLIENT: I think it’s entirely a reflection of her narcissism.
THERAPIST: And then the way she takes offense and makes it about [an appropriate question] (ph?) is also a reflection of her narcissism, like she’s being questioned [ ] (inaudible at 00:20:36) or something like that. (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: It also makes me think of the [ ] (inaudible at 00:21:00).
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) [00:21:13] Both for me and for most of the people I know, I think we’re used to having conversations with people we know and that agree with us. That’s different from having a conversation with someone who might not agree with us. I feel like I don’t see a whole lot of actually listening to whatever other people are saying. I have not watched anything that Lena Dunham has done, so I don’t know if she’s any good or not. [00:22:00] Most of my friends who are into film really like her work. (long pause) [00:23:15]
THERAPIST: I feel like I inadvertently shut you down a little bit there, like with the comment.
CLIENT: I didn’t feel shut down so much as I feel like I’m out of sync [inside] (ph?). (pause) [00:24:09] Or pretty sad. Yeah. [It made me sad.] (ph?) (pause) We got an e-mail from Heather Kate yesterday, which was nice. She needed someone to vent to. She’s pregnant with her second child, as well, and she recently started with a new PCP and so she sort of had to have the discussion/fight again of why she is continuing to stay on Prozac while she’s pregnant. [00:24:59] She was like, “I already did this with my therapist and my psychiatrist and my OB/GYN in my first pregnancy and decided it’s more important that I’m not killing myself before the baby gets here than that the baby not leech off any Prozac.” So basically, she’s getting judgy comments from medical professionals, which is really fun. I don’t know how she’s doing.
THERAPIST: I saw somebody who was pregnant last year who was seeing a psychiatrist that was quite up on that surge and switched her from another SSRI to Prozac because [ ] (inaudible at 00:26:08) .
CLIENT: (laughing) Can I pass that along to Kirsten? Maybe it will make her feel better. I think she’s on a pretty high dose. It was the same dose with Ellen and she turned out just fine.
THERAPIST: There is a clinic at SGH. I forget what the name is, but I know one thing they see people about is medications for mental health stuff specifically for when they’re pregnant.
CLIENT: Cool. That seems like a really valuable (laughing) thing. [00:27:00]
THERAPIST: Absolutely. I’m trying to remember if it was there or she just had a psychiatrist who is really up on that stuff, but this guy just switched her to Prozac from Wellbutrin or Celexa something for the pregnancy.
CLIENT: Good. It sort of reminded me of having been with Franco’s mother and mentioning doing analysis with you and she was like, “You need to find another therapist.” (laughs) You really shouldn’t have said that. My first thought is never like – actually I feel pretty good about the choices that I’ve made for my own care. [00:28:04] This other person who does not know me [ ] (inaudible at 00:28:09). (pause) I haven’t seen Franco in a month because we didn’t do games night this weekend and he had just gotten back into town the week before. I think James wanted to take a walk with him Sunday, so that’s good. [00:29:07] (pause) It feels like I’m trying to remind myself that the people that I care about are, in some ways, even peripherally in my life. (long pause) [00:33:00]
There was a baptism at church on Sunday. She was about six or eight months old. I was sitting sort of towards the front. I try to listen to sermons, but I’m really not interested when there is a baby doing things. (laughs) They totally got upstaged and everyone else was sort of watching the baby also. A guy I know stood up to talk to, basically, give the pledge to do the annual budget of the church and asked people to turn them in. [00:34:00] He talked a little bit about what Trinity meant for him and he actually mentioned me – not by name, but he talked about going to the healing ministry during one of the evening services and something that somebody had said to him, and he sort of said it, and I was like, “Oh, that’s what I said.” (laughs) That was really cool. (long pause) [00:39:04]
I think I’m a lot more ready to have kids than I was a year ago. (long pause) It’s probably something that is a [painful] (ph?) thing for me to fixate on right now. I think James is a ways from getting ready to have kids and I think we’re a ways from being ready to. [00:40:05] (long pause) [00:42:25] I also feel like if I start thinking about that, it will hurt a lot. Just sort of [let it rest.] (ph?). (pause) [00:43:00] I was talking to a man after church the other night, the one who told me I should work for the CIA. His mother had just died and he had gotten divorced in 2010. It seemed like he also was showing up because his life had been in a lot of upheaval. He was talking about the next thing and he was like, “I’m 41.” I was like, “Yeah, I’m 28.” He was like, “You’re a baby.” That’s what they tell me. That’s what people keep telling me. It’s not helpful. I try to keep that in mind when I talk to other people who are younger than me. (laughs) (pause) [00:44:14]
THERAPIST: You feel like you’ve lost time that matters.
CLIENT: A little bit. Some of that and some like – I don’t know. I don’t feel like I’m in the same place as most people who are 28 that I know, in terms of career and family, but also in terms of mental place. Then I think is any 28-year-old actually in the same place? [00:45:02] I know a lot of immature people in their 50’s. (pause) Part of it is feeling like I’ve lost time and part of it is feeling like when are people going to stop telling me that I’m a baby? People have been telling me that I’m a baby since I was 18 – like you know, you’re too young to really be a grown up.
THERAPIST: We should stop now.
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