TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I'm going up to town tomorrow because I'm staying at Ashley's (ph) place tonight. I had to pack...
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: ...for the weekend and I didn't (inaudible at 00:00:31) ridiculous reasons. The laundry machine in our building is broken. And our landlord promised he would have it fixed by the weekend and he didn't get it fixed. He said he would have the repair guy on Monday. So I said, "Okay. I'll do laundry Monday night." No, it didn't happened. So (inaudible) Tuesday. So I said, "I'll do laundry Tuesday night." It didn't happen Tuesday. So last night, I kind of had to just suck it up and go to a laundromat and by the time I got home, I just did not feel like packing. [00:00:57]
Just get up early and pack in the morning. That did not work out as you can see. (PAUSE) [00:02:00]
(PAUSE) So what should I talk about?
THERAPIST: Whatever comes to mind.
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Yeah. So... (PAUSE) I don't know. (PAUSE) [00:03:00]
(PAUSE) [00:04:00]
THERAPIST: Is your mind like blank or you just don't want to talk about it or...
CLIENT: I don't know. Hard to talk about? (inaudible at 00:04:11) (PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Because it's difficult stuff?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: So... (PAUSE) I don't know. Things are weird with Dave (ph) and I don't know how to describe how they've gone weird. But they've been weird for like a year now.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: And I don't know what to do. I mean, to some extent, like he's never been much for talking about his feelings and so that's not weird. But I feel like... I don't know. I've been worried more frequently that he's unhappy and not saying so. [00:05:01]
Because when I try to ask, he insists that he's fine and he's perfectly happy. But it's just... I don't know. Intuition, I guess. But I feel like there's something going wrong and I don't know how to describe it or to fix it. (SIGH) (PAUSE) [00:06:00]
(PAUSE) And also... And like from what I have read, it seems like this is a problem lots of couples have when they've been together for a long time. That like we don't do much spontaneously anymore. Like, you know, when we first started dating and then, you know, when we first got married, there would be, you know, I would come home and Dave would have baked cookies for me just completely randomly or, you know, he came home, he'd come home and I would have baked him a pie or he would leave notes around the house saying he loves me. [00:07:03]
And like all of those like cutesy little things, like neither of us do those anymore. And, yes, we've been together ten years and the new relationship euphoria has long since faded. But like... (PAUSE) I don't know. It feels like the balance of time we spend like dealing with logistics and finances and icky stuff versus the balance of time we spend just enjoying each other's company shifted just entirely too far in the wrong direction. And I don't know how to fix that either because, you know, the couple of times I've tried planning an outing or a camping trip or a date or whatever, we're both just so stressed at work right now and so tired that when you don't have other things going on, we just want to chill at home and like maybe those things get pushed back in light of other commitments we've made. [00:08:07]
Dave is just as busy and overscheduled as I am.
THERAPIST: Oh really?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Doing different things but, you know... And they are things that make him happy. But he still... We're both out of the house, you know, three or four nights a week. So I don't know. (PAUSE) That worries me. (PAUSE) [00:09:00]
Yesterday, we got home from the laundromat like 10:30 or eleven or so. I was folding a load of clothes and I noticed a shirt that should not have gone through the dryer. It should have been a hang dry or line dry or whatever. And so I just mentioned, "Oh shoot. I missed this when I should have pulled it out before it hit the dryer." And Dave just turned around and snapped at me and said, "Can you just say one positive thing? I don't care what. But say something that's not negative. Like, 'It's a nice night outside,' or even, 'I like that color,' or something because you've said nothing but negative things all week." And I don't think that's entirely fair because... I mean, I know I told him I love him more than once this week and that's certainly, you know, an entirely positive thing. But, you know, clearly like he's not happy or something. [00:09:59]
And... I don't know. It's very upsetting. (PAUSE) And then I got upset because, you know, I felt it was, you know, he was saying it wasn't okay for me to be sad and stressed and anxious about work. I very much felt I was being told how I was allowed to feel and being commanded to perform. And that was really not okay at all. (PAUSE) So then I got mad and yelled at him and told him I was not going to perform on command for him. If that's what he wanted, he should get a sexbot (ph) for a wife instead of me. And that was kind of ugly and possibly out of line. [00:11:01]
We both started yelling and it was just ugly all around. And then we calmed down and we talked it out. He says that he gets really stressed when I'm just very negative because he feels responsible in some way for me being unhappy and negative and depressed all the time. So it makes him feel stressed and like he's being asked to fix things which, you know, he can't and also it's not his job and also it's not what I want from him. But like he doesn't believe that. So it's just... It's messy. (PAUSE) [00:12:00]
(PAUSE) (SIGH) And he hasn't had a day off in like two weeks because we were at his parents' house for a weekend and then his brother was with us...
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: ...and then his parents came to visit. And he's way more introverted than I am. He needs a gazillion times more alone time than I do. And he doesn't get any when his family's around because they're all extroverts except Dave. It's a little weird. (PAUSE) [00:13:00]
I want him to be happy and I feel responsible in some ways for him not being happy. (PAUSE) [00:14:00]
(PAUSE) [00:15:00]
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: I imagine something that would make this difficult to talk about is that you worry (PAUSE) (inaudible at 00:15:59) being critical of you for being upset or for something about your job or something. [00:16:11]
CLIENT: Maybe. (PAUSE)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) you're not supposed to be talking about this because this is really just about how you feel and it doesn't matter to you as opposed to like (inaudible at 00:16:49)
CLIENT: No. I think it's more... (PAUSE) [00:17:00]
I don't know. Bracing for judgment of the, "Well, if you weren't spending so much time on these other relationships, you would have more time to focus on your marriage and keeping it healthy."
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Is there a kind of...
CLIENT: And implied "you suck" tacked on at the end.
THERAPIST: Oh okay. (PAUSE) I was going to say kind of a veiled criticism of (inaudible at 00:17:27)
CLIENT: Yep. (PAUSE) [00:18:00]
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: And so I guess... [00:19:07]
That's kind of like a threefer (ph) therein that "this is clearly your fault." Second, it's a criticism of like how you want to handle your relationship. And third, there's a criticism like of your sexuality that you're (inaudible at 00:19:35) (PAUSE) [00:20:00]
(PAUSE) [00:21:00]
(PAUSE) And I guess there's another piece there too which is (PAUSE) that in being critical of you and I'm assuming not focused on (PAUSE) what you're upset about. [00:22:09]
CLIENT: Yep.
THERAPIST: And kind of (inaudible at 00:22:15) (PAUSE) (inaudible) (PAUSE) [00:23:00]
(PAUSE) What's on your mind?
CLIENT: (SIGH) (PAUSE) So there's very long backstory that I don't want to get into. But the... The bottom line is I got the story in my flesh (ph) like for the magazine that I read for that was very passive aggressive attack on one of my friends. It was really, really obvious. There's just like years of drama between this person and his friends and my friends and it's just... Yeah.
THERAPIST: So you know who the author is?
CLIENT: Oh yes.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Yes I do. He and his cronies have been like actively harassing some of my friends for years now. And there was a recent spike in hostilities. And it's stupid. But anyway, the story really upset me a lot. And so I replied to the chief editor saying, telling him this is what this is about. And also, I can't send this guy a rejection letter because I have said too many unkind things about him in public. It will just cause drama for the whole magazine. Give this to some other reader because...
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:24:59]
CLIENT: ...they should... Yeah. But anyway, I was really upset...
(CROSSTALK)
THERAPIST: ...your inbox or whatever.
CLIENT: Yeah. Luck of the draw, I guess. But anyway, I was... I was really upset about it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I went on Twitter and ranted a little bit, very obliquely because, you know, it would be very unprofessional to discuss a submission in detail. So like I didn't name names. I didn't even say what I was upset about. I just said, you know, "Someone pulled a really passive aggressive move over me and my friends and I'm really upset."
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Like, "Why are people so horrible?"
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And so Jodie (ph) then IMed me and said, "You know, now I'm really irrationally worried that I'm the shitty person you're talking about. Can you like reassure me that you're not mad at me and, you know, if I've done something wrong, can you please tell me directly?" And it was just... (PAUSE) I certainly understand the fear when someone is talking very obliquely about something that upset them. [00:26:03]
I will often immediately jump to the conclusion that they are talking about me and I've done something awful. So I really sympathize with that. But I really (SIGH) tend to not to want to have to do emotional work around Jodie. And so... Yeah. That was a thing. That was upsetting. And I don't know what to do because like Jodie is clearly worried about the state of her friendship with me. Like this is not the first time she has, you know, very anxiously asked me to promise I'll tell her if she's (inaudible) me up or if I'm mad at her. I mean, clearly on some level, I'm lying because I am angry at her and unwilling to tell her that because I'm not willing to have the issues surrounding the conversation.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:27:01]
CLIENT: But like at the same time I still care about her and want to maintain her as a friendship and like... I don't think she's done anything to make, to make our friendship impossible. So... (PAUSE) I don't know. (PAUSE) And partly, I kind of feel like, well, the answer here is easy. If you're worried if you relationship with Tom (ph) and behavior around him is upsetting to me then, you know... You could make a twist there that would resolve this problem like conclusively. But she's clearly not willing or able to do that and so... (SIGH) I don't know. It's just... (PAUSE) And I can't talk to Dave about this because his response is, "Well, you shouldn't have slept with Tom in the first place. I warned you he was bad news," which isn't exactly helpful to hear. [00:28:01]
(PAUSE) [00:29:00]
(PAUSE) I really should've listened to Dave though. (PAUSE) [00:30:00]
He has so far in the twelve years I've known him, never been wrong besides, you know, his (inaudible at 00:30:11) friendships. But... (PAUSE) He's a better judge of character than me. (PAUSE) [00:31:00]
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Okay. But I think (PAUSE) you also (PAUSE) seem to be sort of describing or anticipating like kind of boomerang effect. What a technical term.
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Sort of a boomerang effect of your anger. Like... (PAUSE) I'm not sort of... Like just being the reality of what you say, just like it all comes together. [00:31:59]
It makes me think that, you know, you can't write a rejection letter because that's going to make things blow up.
CLIENT: That's actually accurate. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm not doubting that. I'm not saying you're making that up. I'm just saying that... And then, with Jodie, you can't be angry, you can't sort of express your anger at her because that will make things worse between you. Again, that could be true.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I'm not counseling you otherwise. And with Dave as well, like you don't get to be angry about stuff with Jodie because he was right.
CLIENT: Yep.
THERAPIST: And so if you're angry, it's going to just make you feel bad that you didn't listen to Dave in the first place...
CLIENT: Yep.
THERAPIST: ...which is what he's going to say. (PAUSE) [00:33:00]
So I guess my... And for that matter, if you start talking to me about things you're upset about in your marriage, I'm going to be critical that you're polyamorous and slutty and think it's all your fault. (PAUSE) I guess that one's not quite you being angry. You sounded more like worried and upset than hurt and angry. So that one maybe is a little different. I guess my point is...
CLIENT: I mean, I am angry at Kate (ph), not at you.
THERAPIST: Yeah. I see. (PAUSE) My point really again is not that, you know, you're sort of distorting things you expect but that I imagine you feel sort of probably constrained. [00:34:15]
CLIENT: Yep. (PAUSE)
THERAPIST: And like you really kind of have to sort of hold back or hold in.
(CROSSTALK)
CLIENT: There's this... My group consumes a product of another group. They're called macros (ph). The macro team designs them and we consume them. And we were reviewing the macros last week and I told my macro owners, there were two of them, you know, "These are the things I need from you. I cannot do my job unless you do X, Y, and Z." And so the things I asked them to do were legitimately difficult things to do from a technical perspective. That's why I need them from them because the problems that... Because I'm having problems with that. [00:35:05]
But anyway, so they went to their manager and said, you know, "We need X, Y, Z resources because the person consuming the micro needs X, Y, Z." And their manager, Hans (ph), just sent me this horrible aggressive e-mail basically accusing me of being incompetent. And then we had a meeting with me and the macro owners and their manager and my manager and there wasn't anything special about my boss in particular. Like all of the macro owners were having these meetings with their, the (ph) owner who consumes their macro and book managers in the room and then a whole bunch of people will sit in on the reviews. It's been going on for everyone. But anyway, they were just this really hard-nosed and aggressive at me in the e-mails and also on e-mail. I really got in further behind than some of the other (inaudible at 00:35:57) I'm struggling more than some of the other file owners. [00:36:03]
But I'm not incompetent and I had solid technical reasons for why I was asking for help in the macro work. I just... But of course, because of gender politics and whatever, I didn't feel like I could shout back at him. So it was another case of being really angry and feeling like things are unfair and not being able to say that. Instead, you know, moderating my tone and being very careful about what I said and, you know... Afterwards when I had a one on one meeting with my manager, he complimented me on that and said, you know, he was really impressed with how even a temper I kept because he said he's seen him goad other people in the group into like... Apparently, this is just a thing Hans does. He's just really aggressive and caustic and other people get goaded and then they're shouting and nothing gets done. [00:36:59]
But I still feel like it was a very gender dynamic and that I wasn't free to respond the way I wanted to.
THERAPIST: We need to stop.
CLIENT: Yeah. Sorry.
THERAPIST: That's okay.
CLIENT: I interrupted the thought you were, the point you were making for another example of fame. But tomorrow?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Oh wait. (PAUSE) Are we on for tomorrow? That works for me.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I think in the future, I'm going to want to drop back down to two a week because I just, I can't afford the three.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: But I had been planning on coming tomorrow.
THERAPIST: Alright. Good. So I'll see you then. Okay.
CLIENT: And then, I guess tomorrow we can talk about which two days I'll see you. (PAUSE)
END TRANSCRIPT
