TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Thanks for (inaudible at 0:00:04) this meeting this morning.
THERAPIST: Sure. Sure. Glad this could work out.
CLIENT: Yeah, me too.
THERAPIST: Oh that’s just (delayed) (ph). (pause)
CLIENT: Oh it’s a pretty good thing that, you know, (inaudible at 0:00:31). I don’t know. (sigh) (pause) When I get like that, it just feels like (pause) it feels like my mind is like splitting apart. And it gets very scary.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [0:01:14]
CLIENT: (pause) (inaudible at 0:02:26) (pause) The part of my mind is kind of like – think through things and to get me to calm down. It’s still sort of like racing, but it doesn’t give me direction. (pause) A bit chilled like.
THERAPIST: Do you want me to turn it down?
CLIENT: Okay, down.
THERAPIST: Good?
CLIENT: (chuckle) (pause) I’ll have to find another cardigan, like this winter.
THERAPIST: Right. I can also have the heat on when it’s 12 degrees outside; when I can (laughter) feel that cold air that comes in through the window.
CLIENT: Oh yeah, and it’s like – it’s probably 40 today. (pause) Yeah. (pause) Yeah, it’s rather tired. (pause) [0:03:44)]-[0:05:00]
And here I can’t tell whether I’m like done with it, and it’s over, and tomorrow I’ll be back to normal, or whether I’m like this is just the start. I just can’t tell. (pause) [0:06:00]
I try to do these things to make life not feel so horrible. (pause) Days like today, it feels like I’ve just been wasting my time. (pause)
THERAPIST: What are you referring to that you do to make yourself less vulnerable?
CLIENT: You know, some things that are maladaptive and some things that are better. (laughter) I try to get enough sleep, and I had to like (inaudible at 0:07:04) all the good people, and type their work and all of these – I feel like my whole life is oriented toward not having this happen. (chuckle) (pause)
THERAPIST: I feel like, with almost everything else that you do is there’s a task of trying to take care of yourself.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And days like yesterday or today, that doesn’t happen?
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) [0:08:15]-[0:10:15] I have [mood spray’s] (ph) shaken up. I don’t know what to do about that. I pretty (skeptic) (ph). (pause) (inaudible at 0:11:03) (sigh)
THERAPIST: I imagine you feel kind of mixed or of two minds about whether I can like take care of you in some useful way.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (chuckle) You know, my first thought was, “Yeah I’m pretty sure that you can’t.” And my second thought was, “Well why am I here?” And so, yeah. (laughter) I think you’re probably right. (pause) [0:12:03]
I can’t, I can’t convince myself really that it’s okay to kill myself. I can’t convince myself that (sigh) this is going to get better, and I can’t tolerate the idea of living like this.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:12:52)
CLIENT: I don’t know what to do.
THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) [0:13:52]
CLIENT: I think talking to you did help last night though.
THERAPIST: Sure. (pause) Do you have one without (inaudible at 0:14:37]? (pause)
CLIENT: In some ways I think that, you know, (inaudible at 0:15:03], like am I breaking it? (pause) Yeah, I’m sure like, I guess talking about him probably helps some. I don’t really know. (pause) [0:16:03] (pause)
I’ve sort of helped before you to make this your problem too. (pause)
THERAPIST: Oh, of course it is. (pause) Are you sort of having a reaction and feeling horrified of having it that?
CLIENT: I don’t know. (crying) (pause) [0:17:09]-[0:18:09] I don’t understand (crying).
THERAPIST: That sounds like a battle, you know it’s like, when you’re feeling really horrible and miserable; probably like you really want to die. (pause) I think you’re actually, you know, among other things, quite terrified that I’m going to have an explanation for this, because in some way, that would put some of it back on you, you think.
CLIENT: Mm. (inaudible at 0:19:26] I mean I’m definitely terrified that you will expect me to have an explanation. (pause)
THERAPIST: I imagine also that I’ll just expect you to do different or be different. (pause) [0:20:26]-[0:21:26] (pause) My sense is that when you said to me a minute ago, that it was – let me note that one down.
CLIENT: Okay. (laughter)
THERAPIST: That it was probably helpful to make it partly my problem too; that there was some relief in saying that, and I think also some horror probably?
CLIENT: Yeah, it feels like a pretty shitty thing to do, you know.
THERAPIST: It seems to me, pretty close to what we were talking about yesterday? [0:22:27]
CLIENT: Can you remind me?
THERAPIST: Sure. Absolutely. You had come in really anxious about telling me you had been really upset by what we had talked about on Tuesday, especially my saying I thought I was wrong. You were I think really sort of worried that was going to make me feel horrible, and like I had been wrong, in a way that I would sort of have some reaction to – a reaction that would like cause a sort of a breakdown between you and me, and our being able to kind of talk together about you. You remember that? [0:23:34]
CLIENT: Yeah, I remember that.
THERAPIST: Yeah; true. (pause) And this doesn’t seem that different to me, where you’re (pause) I guess I am as in that way when you say something like, “You know, it’s probably helpful to make this partly your problem.” That there’s a part of me that goes, “Oh my f****ing God.” (chuckle) You know like, that was a really shitty thing to say; I am horrible. And probably (imperiled) (ph) that that must have been a really shitty thing to hear. You know, talked you must be feeling completely horrible. (pause)
CLIENT: (inaudible at 0:24:57) (pause) (inaudible at 0:25:04) (pause) Anyway, I feel really bad about asking other people to carry this for me. I feel bad about asking you to (inaudible at 0:25:21). But, you know, I do it, but I don’t like it. I don’t know, I just feel like (pause) I necessarily mind to carry him. I don’t like having to say that I can’t do it.
THERAPIST: Yeah. You know I think you were saying yesterday that you think like guilt and shame kind of go together?
CLIENT: (laughter)
THERAPIST: I think this is sort of ground zero.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) [0:26:00]-[0:28:00] (pause) I think (renovating) (ph) it’s not like work. It’s like – yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah it’s really terrible, because it’s frustrating.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I’m just trying to – yeah, trying to pull myself out of it, but I can’t. (pause) [0:29:22] It sort of feels like sleeping on a bad mattress, and I keep turning and trying to find a place that will be more comfortable. And like, there’s not place that is comfortable.
THERAPIST: Right. (pause) This seems a like old start of it, but I think you’re talking about (inaudible at 0:30:19)
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Trying to find a place that’s slightly more comfortable. (pause) [0:31:19]-[0:34:19] (pause)
THERAPIST: Well, I guess I feel a little bit (pause) what’s the word I thought, because actually it does seem some (inaudible at 0:35:14) does I think, seem sort of clearer to me, or I feel like I do have more of an explanation for it. But I’m concerned, because I think (pause) sort of explaining to you what I think, will feel or may feel to you kind of both a bit retaliatory, and also alienating.
Because I think it seems; part of what seems helpful to you when you’re feeling this bad, [I kind of wonderful helpful] (ph) is for me or someone else to like be at loose ends in the way that you are. Like that’s part of what I think, not being in it at as much on your own feels like to you. [0:36:46] (pause)
CLIENT: It helps maybe. Can we talk about it tomorrow?
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Because I always want to know the answer. (voice change) And I know that that’s not what you’re saying. But sort of the (laughter)
THERAPIST: Well, you know, the truth is, that is a chunk of an answer in my mind; it’s like -
CLIENT: Fix my problems; be better at (inaudible at 0:38:11)
THERAPIST: (chuckle) (pause) I think part of where you’re stuck is that on one side, being terrified, guilty and ashamed of putting any of this on anyone else – I don’t know (inaudible at 0:38:50). (pause) At the same time, I think, you’re really quite desperate for he and I to carry some of it for you, which means, I think in part, to know a little something about what it’s like. Not just as you could explain it, but as you could for example, show me (pause) in showing me that causes don’t matter; explanations don’t matter; that it wasn’t happening yesterday doesn’t matter; that nothing I say in the moment will make it better. [0:40:09]
I mean I think if I didn’t feel that way about it, you know, if I didn’t have sense of that, I don’t think it would feel like I really knew anything about what you were going through. But how could you want me to feel that, you know?
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) [0:41:00] (pause) I don’t know whether that helped. (pause) [0:42:00][0:43:00] I don’t know what to say. (pause)
THERAPIST: I have this small thing, that I’m sorry it’s a logistical thing that occurred to me. I don’t know if this matters or not, but as a one-time thing, I’m scheduled to go see Michele Lee tomorrow at 5:15. Is it going to bother you to see him?
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: Sure. (pause) Yeah, I mean, I could have him come a few minutes later, but it doesn’t matter. [0:44:05]
CLIENT: No, it’s fine.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Thank you. (pause) Thanks for the heads up.
THERAPIST: Sure. We need to stop for now.
CLIENT: Okay.
END TRANSCRIPT
